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OEM's are a big joke. How long before we have a 39 PW?


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Some posters clarify a prior post by quoting it and "adding" to it.

 

Some do this when the board software doesn't allow editing.

 

The previous board did NOT allow editing. Perhaps Pine simply reverted to an earlier habit ? Perhaps he was simply clarifying ? IDK shrug.gif

 

Then again, this IS "social media" and by all means let's jump on any little thing we can find to roast and toast an "opponent" no matter how inconsequential the point may be. You know, so HE is wrong and WE are right. clappy2.gif

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The number stamped on the bottom is the most important part of the iron.  Everyone knows that.     You must be new.  That's not really how it works here.

Oh, it's this again? Is this an ego thing? Do you feel like you have to carry a 3 iron still to have a sense of belonging? Instead of 3 to Pw it becomes 5 to P+A+G. Same amount of clubs. Sam

As long as the spacing stays relatively constant i don't care what they call them. They could call them human names like "Dave" and "Ben"...Maybe they should just do that   "What you hit the

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2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

Then again, this IS "social media" and by all means let's jump on any little thing we can find to roast and toast an "opponent" no matter how inconsequential the point may be. You know, so HE is wrong and WE are right. clappy2.gif

 

The point is more that he flip flops on things and isn't consistent in his positions.  So yes, when someone actually reads something that they wrote, and then replies to THEMSELVES, it is a bit concerning.  More so when they state over and over that they don't care and yet keep posting...

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2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

Some posters clarify a prior post by quoting it and "adding" to it.

 

Some do this when the board software doesn't allow editing.

 

The previous board did NOT allow editing. Perhaps Pine simply reverted to an earlier habit ? Perhaps he was simply clarifying ? IDK shrug.gif

 

Then again, this IS "social media" and by all means let's jump on any little thing we can find to roast and toast an "opponent" no matter how inconsequential the point may be. You know, so HE is wrong and WE are right. clappy2.gif

I assume this post is directed at me. No offense meant to Pinestreet or any other poster. 

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8 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

You have to admit that caling a 38 degree club any type of “wedge “ is simply dishonest.  You can no more pitch with that club and control it than I can putt with a driver.

This is the truth. 38 degree "wedge", what a joke.

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15 minutes ago, kiwihacker said:

For a guy who claims not to care Pinestreet sure spends a lot of time, words and keystrokes on this topic even quoting and replying to himself.

 

Pine, on this thread and the other one about ego you seem to have conceded that a modern jacked loft let's say 27° 7 iron will go the same distance as an old 27° 5 iron, with matching lofts and shaft lengths.  So despite all the claims about modern tech the clubs are only going further because yesterday's 5 iron is now called a 7 iron. At least we can agree on that.

 

The reason I bring that up is that there was another thread on this topic in the past year or so where you argued that distance is all important to scoring and these 'distance' irons were helping shorter hitters score better. The obvious rebuttal to that is they aren't hitting it any further at all. They're simply hitting a 27° club stamped 7 instead of a 27° club stamped 5. Before they would reach for a 5 iron, now they reach for a 7 iron and think they're hitting their new clubs further. Which is fine and that's great if they love their new clubs. But is hitting a 27° iron labeled 7 instead of a 27° iron labeled 5 really going to help them score better?

 

1. For the third time, I was using "care" to refer to caring about what people buy and play, not this topic.  I care about this topic.  This is the third post that has made this point.

 

2. I do, in fact, concede that assuming identical strikes.  I also concede that identical blue and red cars perform identically.  That does not mean, however, I think all cars should be grey.

 

3. Depends on the person.  My Mavrik 21* is 38" long.  A MP-20 is 39.5" long.  One says 5, one says 3.  Same loft, different shaft.  For me, the shorter shaft results in better scores than the longer shaft.  This is not true for everyone.  Therefore, I like that the MP-20s and the Mavriks are both on the rack and I get to choose between them.  Your third paragraph, here, omits shaft length which is the number one factor for center contact per Wishon which absolutely increases distance.  So, yes, *given optimal strikes* those two perform exactly the same since they have the same loft.  However, some players will get enough of an advantage in center strike (e.g. me) with a 38" jacked 5 than a 39.5" traditional 3 that it outperforms its loft.

Edited by pinestreetgolf
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1 minute ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

1. For the third time, I was using "care" to refer to caring about what people buy and play, not this topic.  I care about this topic.  This is the third post that has made this point.

 

2. I do, in fact, concede that assuming identical strikes.  I also concede that identical blue and red cars perform identically.  That does not mean, however, I think all cars should be grey.

 

3. Depends on the person.  My Mavrik 21* is 38" long.  A MP-20 is 39.5" long.  One says 5, one says 3.  Same loft, different shaft.  For me, the shorter shaft results in better scores than the longer shaft.  This is not true for everyone.  Therefore, I that the MP-20s and the Mavriks are both on the rack and I get to choose between them.  Your third paragraph, here, omits shaft length which is the number one factor for center contact per Wishon which absolutely increases distance.  So, yes, *given optimal strikes* those two perform exactly the same since they have the same loft.  However, some players will get enough of an advantage in center strike (e.g. me) with a 38" jacked 5 than a 39.5" traditional 3 that it outperforms its loft.

Good post Piney. I get your point. 👍

 

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Pine, albeit in a perfect world everyone would get fitted for clubs, length is about as irrelevant to this topic as anything else added.  Loft is static, it doesn't change wrt to the club (obviously can't say dynamic is static but OEM's have little to no control over that).

 

I also have no idea where you are going wrt to the paint of cars.  No one is saying that a blue car will go further than your old red car when they are the same car (tho statistically you might get pulled over more in that red car).

Edited by setter02

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17 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

I honestly don't know how you can disagree with that.  

 

Well then, let me ask you. You already exclude metal bats for safety ? Why ? Wooden bats splinter and could've taken Clemen's head off. They also flew into the stand and injured spectators and players who weren't watching closely. Metal bats don't splinter.

 

I asked you before and didn't get an answer (except for the metal bats). What other reason(s) would there be to making regulations on equipment other than leveling the playing field for the sake of fair competition ?

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16 minutes ago, kiwihacker said:

I assume this post is directed at me. No offense meant to Pinestreet or any other poster. 

 

Not only you,,,,,,,,,,,,, :classic_wink:

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11 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Well then, let me ask you. You already exclude metal bats for safety ? Why ? Wooden bats splinter and could've taken Clemen's head off. They also flew into the stand and injured spectators and players who weren't watching closely. Metal bats don't splinter.

 

I asked you before and didn't get an answer (except for the metal bats). What other reason(s) would there be to making regulations on equipment other than leveling the playing field for the sake of fair competition ?

 

Ball speed speed and reaction time.  How many pitchers almost get hit by a bat vs. have balls go past them.  Now add another 6+ mph to that ball speed coming at them.

Would be much worse if you added in composite.  Not to mention it would make hitters better and likely double homerun rates.

 

As for the fair competition thing.  We disagree on the interpretation of the meaning so harder to say.  To me, they have regulations in place just for consistency, not fair play.  Same baseball used everywhere, same brand of basketball (tho each are inflated a bit different but both sides have to agree on ball before game starts).

 

Hockey equipment was getting too big so they put limits on it as the product was suffering and goalies were still well protected, so that couldn't be used as a reason for bigger stuff.  Now you are seeing bigger and bigger goalies in the game and the 5'8" guy is a rarity.  Thus the equipment has grown again, but you then have a safety argument.

 

At the professional level (bit of a generalization), every team basically has the same access to equipment.  At the Am level, the argument can be made that people don't have the same financial situations, so regulations could be put in place for the sake of 'fair competition'.  Ideally everyone wants to see the best performers win, not the most well equipped.

Edited by setter02

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4 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

To me, they have regulations in place just for consistency, not fair play.

 

To me, that's simply to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to.

 

So let's call the whole thing off. boredom.gif

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As for "leveling the playing field".  You could likely make the argument that the shorter hitters should ae able to use hotter equipment to hit the ball further to compete with those more physically gifted than they are.  But we all know that isn't going to happen as you can't regulate the people within the sport (unless it's the whole genetics issue in female sports).

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18 hours ago, vman said:

I've been playing for over 40 years and have seen many changes in equipment but golf is still the same. You get to choose 14 clubs and you can fill your bag with tools to do a certain job or multiple jobs. There is so much choice, so much to test and distance gapping is not an issue, you've just got to figure it out.

 

You are correct there is so much choice and you can get your bag beautifully dialed in...... for those who can lol! 

 

I'm a par golfer but never been fitted only tried the launch monitors at the store for a few mins with useless results.  I would love to go TXG style on my bag and believe that you have to have a lot of sessions on a monitor to get it right, a lot.  Even Matty and Ian of TXG retest stuff and get different results all the time and they are the epitome of getting fit.  I think you have to have access to equipment and good launch monitors and a guy who's got skill in adjusting things to get a proper fit, meaning someone working in the industry or given access somehow, not an hour fitting session.  How many times on this board do we hear I got fit for a driver and it sucked at the course... its even a cliche 

Edited by Barfolomew

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On 2/1/2021 at 11:18 PM, sonnygolf said:

It wont be long before the OEM's break into 30's mark with regards to PW lofts. This is going to be very funny see how the OEMs and players end up with an identity crisis. The word gap wedge will mean more than one club  with players carrying 6 wedges. They might as well do away with the faux numbering 4  - 9 on irons and we call all irons by their lofts. But that wont suit their agenda because nothing is more cool for OEMS than hear some newbie say "I hit my 7 iron 210, these clubs are super amazing".

 

Listening to OEM marketing guys talk about their new super duper jacked up clubs is worse than a greasy car salesmen trying to sell you a faulty car. People need to call them out rather than pander to them.

 

 

Interesting topic.

surprised it hasn’t been discussed before.

why do you care if someone else is playing a strongly lofted club?

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2 hours ago, Striker Ace said:

I play a 42 degree pitching wedge. Is there something wrong with me? Am I not forum worthy? 

 

Please God, no!!!!!!

Do you use it as a short game club around the green or is it more of a full swing club? My 9 iron is 43° and it's great for full swings but is also a very effective chipping club from around the green when the situation calls for more of a chip and run type shot.

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17 minutes ago, kiwihacker said:

Do you use it as a short game club around the green or is it more of a full swing club? My 9 iron is 43° and it's great for full swings but is also a very effective chipping club from around the green when the situation calls for more of a chip and run type shot.

Same same

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I guess the good thing about these jacked lofts is the 5° gapping allows you to get to that 46° one club faster than the 'traditional' lofts meaning you can throw in an extra wedge. I currently play 24° to 47° (7 irons) then play 47/52/58 in the wedges. Some of the jacked loft sets like the ZX7 or the MP 20 MMC get there in one less club i.e. 24/25 to 46° (6 irons) meaning I could play 46/50/54/58. That is one thing that appeals about them and I'm considering combo-ing the ZX5 and ZX7 to achieve this. 

 

MP20/MMC or ZX7

21/22

24/25

27/28

30/32

34/36

38/41

42/46

46/50

52/54

58/58

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On 2/5/2021 at 10:39 AM, wedgegame said:

You don't think ball and bat regulations are intended to preserve fair competition?

 

My point was the governing bodies of pretty much all sports leagues place regulations on equipment used for competitive play.  Those regulations do not prevent an individual from purchasing and using equipment that falls outside of regulations.  It seemed you implied this was the case.

 

It's not a great comparison.  Bat and ball regulations in baseball are more about player safety than preserving fair competition, with the obvious exception of rules against tampering with balls (greasing, scuffing, etc.) and bats (corking).  Bats that easily splinter or transfer more energy to the ball represent a safety hazard for opposing players.

Edited by forrester_fire
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Woods, hybrids and wedges will be standard set. It's more money for OEM's.  Even the older generation using players clubs and hybrids will have to make the changes or pay premium for Irons set. 

 

Either OEM's are going to be making more money. 

 

This is the trend 

 

5 years 42 PW will be the norm

10 years 38 PW will be the norm

15 years  34 PW will be the norm

20 years 30 PW will be the norm

 

The branding of clubs will shift - irons phased away and done with. 

 

The change is coming, embrace folks 🙂 

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Odd...I played golf with a guy 20 years ago that had all woods...no irons.....Did not realize at the time he was thinking ahead so far about golf clubs.

Good to know.

Think I will stock up on some Tiger irons.

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