Distance - Equipment

[Newby]

https://www.randa.org/News/2021/02/Distance-Update-2021

[Holy Moses]

Lawsuits coming from equipment companies, right?

[Londoner]

3 hours ago, Newby said:

https://www.randa.org/News/2021/02/Distance-Update-2021

 

Interesting. Thx for that.

[davep043]

2 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Lawsuits coming from equipment companies, right?

Equipment companies are being asked to comment on three specific proposals.  They'll have a tough time complaining afterwards if they're part of the entire process.

[sui generis]

42 minutes ago, davep043 said:

Equipment companies are being asked to comment on three specific proposals.  They'll have a tough time complaining afterwards if they're part of the entire process.

 

What will matter to them the most is if there's some limitation on how far they can "say" their equipment will go. 😀

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

Equipment companies are being asked to comment on three specific proposals.  They'll have a tough time complaining afterwards if they're part of the entire process.

That’s good that they are, but the USGA still might go away from their wishes

[davep043]

48 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

That’s good that they are, but the USGA still might go away from their wishes

Its possible.  Have you read the article, and seen the three topics for further valuation?  Two of them seem very technical to me, beyond my knowledge level, the other is limiting the club length to 46", compared to 48" now.  I'm not sure what the objections could be, as long as the companies have time to re-engineer, re-tool, and research, and of course sell the old stock.  Considering the 2010 groove rules STILL are not the rule for all golfers, moving too fast seems unlikely.

Edited February 2, 2021 by davep043

[MtlJeff]

I didn't see anything in there that was a drastic proposal. The only thing said in concrete was the 46 inch drivers vs 48. But i'd guess 1 amateur out of 10000 plays a 48 inch driver. 

 

The rest was just "hey let's discuss things"?

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

Its possible.  Have you read the article, and seen the three topics for further valuation?  Two of them seem very technical to me, beyond my knowledge level, the other is limiting the club length to 46", compared to 48" now.  I'm not sure what the objections could be, as long as the companies have time to re-engineer, re-tool, and research, and of course sell the old stock.  Considering the 2010 groove rules STILL are not the rule for all golfers, moving too fast seems unlikely.

Those things aren’t going to impact distance much. The six areas of interest, if implemented, will limit distance and I would imagine there would be lawsuits over them.

[Hawkeye77]

It's all very incremental and looks well plotted out, no lines drawn in the sand, deadlines (kind of) --- let the process begin!

[mark m]

I am for one standard for everybody. A double standard means you will be considered second class. They know this. The first paragraph:

 

• The potential use of a Local Rule that would specify the use of clubs and/or balls intended to result in shorter hitting distances. This would enable committees conducting competitions to stipulate whether such equipment should be used. It could be available at all levels of play and would also allow golfers playing outside of competition to choose for themselves.

This is just a way to say, don't blame us if your committee implements the local rule. The clubmakers should go ahead and continue to make clubs with current standards for the average guy - just don't sue us! Still "legal"! While elite ams will soon have to own the new conforming equipment if they want to play in elite events. And juniors and college players would need to as well - for their best chance to make it up the ladder. And at the club level where you can have a mix of elite players and the average joe's - "just do the best you can! You - the committee - decide on the rules for your competition!" For the handicap system - who knows(?) Maybe they will put in a way to designate competition scores depending on the equipment used? (I have no idea.) But I do know that amateur competitions at all levels use the handicap system. Bottom line: a double standard would be a mess. They would be better off getting prototypes into the hands of the average joe to show him that the changes will have minimal effect on their games in relation to the elite player. What's likely to happen is a 5-8 yard difference for average joe's and 25+ yards for the elite player on well hit drives. (If they make changes to head size, spring-like effect, and the golf ball. This is just my best guess.)

 

A tour player endorsement? "Here is my driver I use on tour. And this is the driver I use when I play with my girlfriend. Buy both!" 

[LeoLeo99]

I didn't read the link.  Will players have two handicaps of they play both regular and restricted rounds or will every course get two ratings?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

15 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Lawsuits coming from equipment companies, right?

Lawsuit on what basis? 

Edited February 3, 2021 by BlackDiamondPar5

[jmkenn0]

Definitely seems like it could be a mess.  I don't really know that many handicapped events, or the events that people play were the LR will be enforced, are going to really care about handicaps?  I do think they'll need to do something similar to homologation in auto racing - OEMs shouldn't be allowed to build purpose-built clubs for these events, unless they sell X # to the public.  Which for auto racing generally meant you got some awesome cars you could buy publically, but not sure what its impact on golf would be?

 

It still seems like the easiest way to enforce a LR is 1/2" tees, to take drivers out of bags? Or a max CC.

[bladehunter]

5 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Lawsuit on what basis? 

Exactly.  Non adherence to the rules ?  It’s not as if they are  going to limit driver sales. If anything they’d create a short term boom in sales.  The lawsuit would read “ our ability to fleece the buying public has been diminished “.  Get all the way out of here.   Lol. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by bladehunter

[Newby]

16 hours ago, LeoLeo99 said:

I didn't read the link.  

Perhaps you should have. Does your unpaid caddy place your ball on the tee?

But the answer is yes and it depends if the club requests two ratings.

[davep043]

Does everyone realize that, regarding bifurcation, this the exact same language that was used an entire year ago?  There's nothing new.  There IS some new information as to exactly what they may evaluate from equipment regulation and testing standpoint.  I just don't see much real news here.

2 hours ago, Newby said:

Perhaps you should have. Does your unpaid caddy place your ball on the tee?

But the answer is yes and it depends if the club requests two ratings.

You've apparently seen something I haven't, regarding two handicaps.  Makes sense, obviously, but I'd be surprised if they've thought this far ahead.

[Newby]

 

It probably isn't true 😉

Edited February 3, 2021 by Newby

[dmecca2]

As a competing amateur, the can of worms this opens up for me is not a fun one. Where is the line drawn for this local rule if they do, in fact, go with bifurcation? Will I need to own 2 sets of clubs? Do I need to keep 2 handicaps? Where will I find the time to practice with the conforming equipment?

[Holy Moses]

37 minutes ago, dmecca2 said:

As a competing amateur, the can of worms this opens up for me is not a fun one. Where is the line drawn for this local rule if they do, in fact, go with bifurcation? Will I need to own 2 sets of clubs? Do I need to keep 2 handicaps? Where will I find the time to practice with the conforming equipment?

I can’t see anyone but the major pro tours and USGA championships using the local rule. Maybe college golf too.

[dmecca2]

1 minute ago, Holy Moses said:

I can’t see anyone but the major pro tours and USGA championships using the local rule. Maybe college golf too.

State championships? US amateur championsips? US open qualifiers? At some point myself and others would have to play with the local rule. 

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, dmecca2 said:

State championships? US amateur championsips? US open qualifiers? At some point myself and others would have to play with the local rule. 

Those would count as USGA championships

[jmkenn0]

2 hours ago, dmecca2 said:

State championships? US amateur championsips? US open qualifiers? At some point myself and others would have to play with the local rule. 

 

That's interesting - would the USGA have their qualifiers be LR-dependent on the course?  That seems pretty terrible, but then again, if they knew they were going to a shorter, historical course for the US Open and have the LR in place, would they make all qualifiers also have the LR?

[dmecca2]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

Those would count as USGA championships

State amateurs and state opens are not USGA run events. For example, the Philly Open has a ton of amateur players and pro players. What ball would they play?

[rogolf]

9 minutes ago, jmkenn0 said:

 

That's interesting - would the USGA have their qualifiers be LR-dependent on the course?  That seems pretty terrible, but then again, if they knew they were going to a shorter, historical course for the US Open and have the LR in place, would they make all qualifiers also have the LR?

I believe the US Open qualifiers use the same equipment requirements as the US Open, eg, grooves.

[dmecca2]

2 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I believe the US Open qualifiers use the same equipment requirements as the US Open, eg, grooves.

They do. We all have conforming wedges and clubs as is, the only things we need to change or look out for is the one ball rule and no rangefinders. 

[Holy Moses]

26 minutes ago, dmecca2 said:

State amateurs and state opens are not USGA run events. For example, the Philly Open has a ton of amateur players and pro players. What ball would they play?

The one they’ve always been playing

[dmecca2]

6 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

The one they’ve always been playing

I'm sorry, so which ball is that? Because the pros will be practicing with the pro ball and the amateurs will be practicing with the amateur ball. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by dmecca2

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, dmecca2 said:

I'm sorry, so which ball is that? Because the pros will be practicing with the pro ball and the amateurs will be practicing with the amateur ball. 

They will all play according to the Terms and Conditions and Local Rules of the event.  How they practice is not governed by those T&C and LR.

[dmecca2]

Just now, rogolf said:

They will all play according to the Terms and Conditions and Local Rules of the event.  How they practice is not governed by those T&C and LR.

I understand the rules will be the rules and the committees and organizers or the event will not care about me and my practice at their event. But the USGA is the organization that is supposed to protect the competitive integrity of the game. And my question is directed at them. Amateurs competing has always been a huge part of their core values, and there's no way I would be as competitive as I am now, with a ball I won't get much practice time with.