What’s Going On At PXG?

[Lefty87]

I just wanted to open a broad thread regarding PXG’s brand identity and this newfound business to consumer transparency we’re experiencing, without derailing conversation related to specific lineups and upcoming product. 
 

PXG has pulled a 180, going from a high margin/low volume strategy to a low margin/high volume approach in a matter of months. 
 

So, what gives? Is this truly an effect of the pandemic and current market volatility, or is the pandemic being utilized as a smokescreen for an underlying strategy? Right now, PXG are placing their product in as many hands as possible. Is this a mad rush to establish brand loyalty before the market (and their pricing) normalizes, or is it simply a shift in strategy to hold a greater market share? Is it both? I don’t know the answer and, honestly, maybe PXG doesn’t know exactly where this leads, but there’s no denying they are moving serious amounts of product right now.
 

The truth is, PXG is unlike any other manufacturer in the industry. Unlimited resources allow PXG to operate unlike anything else we’ve seen. PXG is probably the only OEM in the industry capable of running a loss leader campaign right now, which is what appears to be happening. Their strategy is a complete enigma right now; so, the talk about devaluing the brand is understandable, but not entirely accurate. 
 

Interested to hear the thoughts of those who are genuinely interested and not looking to bash a brand for being different. 
 

 

 

 

[DFS PFD]

They seem to be employing a model of, making insane margins for as long as possible, when sales slow and new products are in the pipeline, they clear inventory at what is probably still a decent margin, then repeat the cycle. Probably end up making an average margin that is still higher than a typical OEM, but also lower net profit given their smaller market share. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by DFS PFD

[Lefty87]

4 minutes ago, DFS PFD said:

They seem to be employing a model of, making insane margins for as long as possible, when sales slow and new products are in the pipeline, they clear inventory at what is probably still a decent margin, then repeat the cycle. Probably end up making an average margin that is still higher than a typical OEM, but also lower margin given their smaller market share. 

Good stuff. Completely agree with that pattern, but there have been a few releases that haven’t followed...the proto products, new premium putters, and 0211 line that have had initial launch prices well below market averages. 

[Abh159]

This is just my theory, but perhaps they have just realized that the market for high-end, exclusive golf equipment isn't out there like they thought it would be so they've shifted to still making decent clubs but at a price point that makes them accessible to a larger audience. 

 

Do you all remember CLEAR golf balls? They started a few years back as this sort of ultra-premium golf ball company that you had to be "invited to" in order to purchase. Now it looks like not only have they dropped their prices but anyone can go on their website and buy a dozen.

[MtlJeff]

I'm not a PXG expert, and i agree with a lot of what @DFS PFD says in that if they have a lot of inventory , they can afford to move it at lower prices because their margins are likely very good overall. This is not unique to golf it's just basic inventory movement, car dealerships do this too

 

Overall, i'm not surprised PXG has released lower priced equipment, as there is a market for that too especially once you've developed a brand a bit. This is not that different from what Mercedes and BMW have done here. Many years ago you couldn't get an "affordable" Mercedes in the Americas. Now they have borderline entry level cars, my Toyota RAV4 cost more than my Dad's Mercedes. There are buyers for premium stuff and for moderate priced stuff, if your brand can survive trying to appeal to both (without compromising its image) than it makes sense to do it. Especially if you have the manufacturing capacity...some industry's call these "fab fillers" in that they are higher volume products to make better use of your capacity

 

BTW i wouldn't say the 0211's undercut the market. Didn't they start at like 179$ a head? That's certainly on par with many. Even now at their discounted price the Forged TEC's i just bought were basically the same price

[RogerinNewZealand]

They give US extra options...they hit the market with a lot of Sandwich Technology,extra springy,free distance but not too much feel... that caused some lpga users too um have issues...then gen 2 improves, now maybe into gen 3 and wrxrs are raving over some of the gear.And thats Great.Clearly some parties do not like the Founder...i am miles from you guys so unfamiliar with him.When i see you guys posting very favourable reviews on Irons and Proto things, im just happy you have purchased Cool Gear that works for you...i sit here waiting for my Tourstage mb Irons that are like 3 hours away........

[copegolfer]

maybe this was their plan all along....
make a "super premium" product that the average joe would want but couldn't afford, then drop price and pull all the average joes in now that its affordable. 

 

Its a reach i know, but i'm somewhat of a conspiracy guy...

 

CP

[DFS PFD]

2 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

I'm not a PXG expert, and i agree with a lot of what @DFS PFD says in that if they have a lot of inventory , they can afford to move it at lower prices because their margins are likely very good overall. This is not unique to golf it's just basic inventory movement, car dealerships do this too

 

Overall, i'm not surprised PXG has released lower priced equipment, as there is a market for that too especially once you've developed a brand a bit. This is not that different from what Mercedes and BMW have done here. Many years ago you couldn't get an "affordable" Mercedes in the Americas. Now they have borderline entry level cars, my Toyota RAV4 cost more than my Dad's Mercedes. There are buyers for premium stuff and for moderate priced stuff, if your brand can survive trying to appeal to both (without compromising its image) than it makes sense to do it. Especially if you have the manufacturing capacity...some industry's call these "fab fillers" in that they are higher volume products to make better use of your capacity

 

BTW i wouldn't say the 0211's undercut the market. Didn't they start at like 179$ a head? That's certainly on par with many. Even now at their discounted price the Forged TEC's i just bought were basically the same price

Agree with all the above, I don't think the 0211 undercut THE market, I think it undercut THEIR market, and their own image. Clearly the uber expensive market had been capped from their perspective, so they ventured into more of a commodity market. Which in my eyes, hurt their brand value slightly. That's just my very uninformed opinion though 

[InsuranceGuy89]

Right now is nothing more than a market grab.  I have heard from some very good sources that they will sell as many clubs as Titleist in 2021.  They have plenty of money so this isnt sort of liquidation sale.  Parsons goal has always been to change the golf industry.  I think going forward you will see 3 lines from PXG almost at all times.  An entry line that will be cheaper than anything out there and will still be a very very quality product.  This would be the 0211 line now and the first run of 0211 I think are phenomenal irons.  Middle line right now is the proto line and then Gen 4 coming out will be their flagship premium line.  You can expect that to be back up to $400 an iron probably, $600 for a driver etc.  PXG is definitely going to push the other OEMs prices down or they will continue to capture alot of the golf market.  I mean the 0211 driver brand new is $250.  Thats unheard of right now in the golf world for a brand new product.

[puresurfr]

PXG realized there is a lot of money to be made thorough volume sales.  This Pandemic has lifted the boat on all things golf......golf courses and equipment manufacturers are having a crazy good year.  PXG has decided to move away from being a luxury lifestyle brand to a more high performance middle ground manufacturers.  Perhaps they believe that they can reclaim their luxury branding whenever they want.  I have been one of the largest collectors of PXG in the past, but i don't see myself following their new releases like clockwork.  There is a certain parity among all equipment manufacturers and its senseless to imagine that another brand is superior to another.  There are differences in appearance and or feel but thats about it.

[chocolate_rehab]

It doesn't seem like they have a defined strategy or business playbook they're following anymore. I thought the introduction of the more affordable 211 line made a lot of sense. You get people to try the brand who had previously been turned off by the price, or who may have wanted PXG but couldn't afford it. Meanwhile, the Gen products were higher end materials, feel, etc. Even blowing out old stock (Gen 1/Gen 2) at low prices made sense to me.

 

What doesn't make sense to me, and I've said this, is the willy nilly price changes on newer product and the lack of a clear delineation. One day 0211 irons are $129, the next $99, hours later, $89. 0211 Fairway woods debuting at $245, then a week later $229, then down to $199 within 15 days of launch. Gen 3 irons which are $299 one week, then $249, then $199 all within a month. How many price changes did the Proto drivers go through over the course of a few months?

 

It's like there's no plan. It also means the raising the prices back up thing they do is not going to be met with fervent customers. Why would I ever buy a product at launch? It would be smart to wait even a few weeks, as they've shown they will lower prices on brand new equipment. Likewise, if I paid $245 for a fairway and 2 weeks later it's $199, I'm going to be pissed. And no, I don't want PXG store credit.

 

Personally, it's a huge turn off. I think the dueling lines make sense. They just need to find prices that work and stick to them. The one thing about PXG is sometimes Bob Parsons' influence is so obvious in something they do in a negative way. I think these moves might boost sales in a pandemic, but long term I'm not so sure.

 

 

[Eric05]

 

2 minutes ago, chocolate_rehab said:

It doesn't seem like they have a defined strategy or business playbook they're following anymore. I thought the introduction of the more affordable 211 line made a lot of sense. You get people to try the brand who had previously been turned off by the price, or who may have wanted PXG but couldn't afford it. Meanwhile, the Gen products were higher end materials, feel, etc. Even blowing out old stock (Gen 1/Gen 2) at low prices made sense to me.

 

What doesn't make sense to me, and I've said this, is the willy nilly price changes on newer product and the lack of a clear delineation. One day 0211 irons are $129, the next $99, hours later, $89. 0211 Fairway woods debuting at $245, then a week later $229, then down to $199 within 15 days of launch. Gen 3 irons which are $299 one week, then $249, then $199 all within a month. How many price changes did the Proto drivers go through over the course of a few months?

 

It's like there's no plan. It also means the raising the prices back up thing they do is not going to be met with fervent customers. Why would I ever buy a product at launch? It would be smart to wait even a few weeks, as they've shown they will lower prices on brand new equipment. Likewise, if I paid $245 for a fairway and 2 weeks later it's $199, I'm going to be pissed. And no, I don't want PXG store credit.

 

Personally, it's a huge turn off. I think the dueling lines make sense. They just need to find prices that work and stick to them. The one thing about PXG is sometimes Bob Parsons' influence is so obvious in something they do in a negative way. I think these moves might boost sales in a pandemic, but long term I'm not so sure.

 

 

Well, based off that. It seems like they just have inventory they are looking to move. I do think its a turn off as well. It's like a car dealership. That list's a car at lets say 35,000. Someone comes in offers 33,000. They say no. And then a week later they end up offering it at the 33,000. Losing all creditability. 

 

They are in a position that's tough. I know he has the money. And listen when you die. It's not going with you, so let him spend it. But he doesn't have many tour professionals. The cheaper product is nice. But also think back about Nike. Nike had Tiger, Rory, Brooks, and many more. And they just said forget about clubs at this point. You can only do so much marketing.

[mgoblue83]

Pretty clear what is going on:

 

When they first released they had a nice looking forged blade at an exclusive price point and they marketed to low handicap golfers who wanted "the best". They sold a decent amount of sets and then decided they wanted to "grow". 

 

Ever since that very first blade their equipment has been designed for high handicap golfers (major increase in club head size, offset, hollow body construction, jacked lofts etc..) and has been mass produced out of lower quality materials. Once that original customer base realized the clubs are now essentially Top Flight box sets they stopped buying and PXG as been forced to reduce the prices.

 

Basically right now they are selling a lie (high quality clubs and performance) to weekend hackers who don't know any better.

[LeoLeo99]

I think Bob over estimated the demand for over priced golf equipment and they are spiraling towards extinction.  They were the Louie Vuitton of golf clubs.   Now, I'm not sure what they are trying to be.  Can't be everything to everyone.  

[Celebros]

7 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

I think Bob over estimated the demand for over priced golf equipment and they are spiraling towards extinction.  They were the Louie Vuitton of golf clubs.   Now, I'm not sure what they are trying to be.  Can't be everything to everyone.  

The weird dynamic too is that they were trying to be Louie Vuitton and while they arguably nailed the premium price/quality angle, they intentionally eschewed almost all of the "classy" aspects of such a brand in terms of design/marketing/etc.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Celebros
Spelling Correction

[cwilk]

9 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

Ever since that very first blade their equipment has been designed for high handicap golfers (major increase in club head size, offset, hollow body construction, jacked lofts etc..) and has been mass produced out of lower quality materials. Once that original customer base realized the clubs are now essentially Top Flight box sets they stopped buying and PXG as been forced to reduce the prices.

 

Basically right now they are selling a lie (high quality clubs and performance) to weekend hackers who don't know any better.

 

LOL.  Are you talking about the 0211's?  I've played several of their products and with the exception of their Gen 1 driver, every product has been as good as any other major OEM offering.  I don't play them now because I like to change clubs every so often, but that bold comment is ridiculous.  Even their 0211's are as good as any major OEM cast GI offering.  My son went from the Apex 19's to the first gen 0211's and combined with the Elevate VSS shafts they feel much better than the Apex and perform the same.

[rsballer10]

I think it's just a bad time to start a new golf brand. The major OEM's are in a state of hyper-competition in terms of tech and performance. Taylormade, Titleist, Callaway, Srixon/Cleveland, Mizuno, Cobra basically all perform at a high level when fitted properly. It's really hard to justify the extra-extra price tag. I think their marketing/ styling is a bit off too. Too over the top the blackjack putter commercial is just annoying and cheesy. I don't see how going mid market will help either. Then you're trying to beat the OEM's at their own game which is tough.

[hanfrac]

13 minutes ago, cwilk said:

 

LOL.  Are you talking about the 0211's?  I've played several of their products and with the exception of their Gen 1 driver, every product has been as good as any other major OEM offering.  I don't play them now because I like to change clubs every so often, but that bold comment is ridiculous.  Even their 0211's are as good as any major OEM cast GI offering.  My son went from the Apex 19's to the first gen 0211's and combined with the Elevate VSS shafts they feel much better than the Apex and perform the same.

 

I did not have this experience.  I have CF19 Apex/Pros with C Taper Lites.  Went to a PXG fitting in Dec, bought the 0211's for $89 with Elevate Tours.  When I got them, they were shorter than the Apex.  They did not appear to offer any advantage over the Apex for me and my swing.  So I returned them and lost the shipping and restocking fee.

 

Another friend bought 0311 Gen2's with upgraded shafts.  He also found he was losing 5-10 yards vs. his M2 irons.  So he also sent his back.  

 

Maybe we both ended up with a bad shaft match, but these two experiences do not support "PXG is as good as any other major OEM offering."  

[Lefty87]

1 hour ago, copegolfer said:

maybe this was their plan all along....
make a "super premium" product that the average joe would want but couldn't afford, then drop price and pull all the average joes in now that its affordable. 

 

Its a reach i know, but i'm somewhat of a conspiracy guy...

 

CP

I’m nowhere near a “conspiracy theorist” lol, but I’ve been of the same mindset...that there’s a deeper strategy at play involving the psychology of consumer behavior. Whether it is or not, I don’t care. I’m already on the PXG train. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Lefty87

[cwilk]

6 minutes ago, hanfrac said:

 

I did not have this experience.  I have CF19 Apex/Pros with C Taper Lites.  Went to a PXG fitting in Dec, bought the 0211's for $89 with Elevate Tours.  When I got them, they were shorter than the Apex.  They did not appear to offer any advantage over the Apex for me and my swing.  So I returned them and lost the shipping and restocking fee.

 

Another friend bought 0311 Gen2's with upgraded shafts.  He also found he was losing 5-10 yards vs. his M2 irons.  So he also sent his back.  

 

Maybe we both ended up with a bad shaft match, but these two experiences do not support "PXG is as good as any other major OEM offering."  

 

You and you friend both went from strong lofted clubs to more traditional lofts.  Even the original 0211's had a 45* PW, while the Apex (non-Pro) PW is 43*.  So if you had yours bent to the same loft the shaft could have played a role.  Same goes for the M2's depending on what 0311's your friend had (M2 has a 43* PW).  

 

I had 0311T's and loft per loft, they carried the same distance as any other club I've hit with my typical weight/flex shaft.  I'm not sure how you not hitting them as far would equate to them not being as good overall either.  

[Lefty87]

23 minutes ago, hanfrac said:

 

I did not have this experience.  I have CF19 Apex/Pros with C Taper Lites.  Went to a PXG fitting in Dec, bought the 0211's for $89 with Elevate Tours.  When I got them, they were shorter than the Apex.  They did not appear to offer any advantage over the Apex for me and my swing.  So I returned them and lost the shipping and restocking fee.

 

Another friend bought 0311 Gen2's with upgraded shafts.  He also found he was losing 5-10 yards vs. his M2 irons.  So he also sent his back.  

 

Maybe we both ended up with a bad shaft match, but these two experiences do not support "PXG is as good as any other major OEM offering."  

While I appreciate you sharing your experience, you can’t possibly be serious... Like 99% of the people on WRX, I’ve purchased far too many sets of irons than I could ever need. Needless to say, many of them didn’t work out for my game, whether it was loss of distance, lack of feel, etc... but I’ve never drawn the conclusion that it simply wasn’t a quality product. 

Why did you buy the 0211’s if they were noticeably shorter than your Apex’s? If you say they were longer in your fitting but shorter once you received them, that’s going to be a tough one to understand. So many variables. 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Lefty87

[Lefty87]

So, from a decent sample of responses, it’s pretty clear everyone has their own unique take on this... which Is what I expected. I enjoy the conversation, but it’s clear no one outside of PXG knows what is really going on. 

[hanfrac]

7 minutes ago, Lefty87 said:

While I appreciate you sharing your experience, you can’t possibly be serious... Like 99% of the people on WRX, I’ve purchased far too many sets of irons than I could ever need. Needless to say, many of them didn’t work out for my game, whether it was loss of distance, lack of feel, etc... but I would never claim they were lying about the quality of their products. 

Why did you buy the 0211’s if they were noticeably shorter than your Apex’s? If you say they were longer in your fitting but shorter once you received them, that’s going to be a tough one to understand. So many variables. 

 

I don't think you understood my point.  The prior poster shared their experience with Apex-to-0211's.  I'm saying "I didn't have this experience."  I did not claim that PXG lies.  I acknowledge the possibility of a bad shaft match.

[Eric05]

I also think the first clubs had the cool factor I guess you can say with the way they looked. It was different. In a way their marketing and the iron justified the pricing. And I believe they did what any smart manufacturer would do, come out with something for a different market at a different price. If you want the premium then you spend the difference and get the higher end. Hopefully in their minds they can capture a younger audience at the 89 price point saying they have PXG and hopefully upgrade as they get older to the more expensive stuff. 

 

There are a couple type of golfers out there.

1) The golfer who rarely plays, but has the best equipment so when he does. He tends to look the part

2) The golfer who plays often, competitive and drills down on what really works on his game(club, lie, loft)

3) And the Club Hoe. Which GolfWRX has many of. We play, enjoy playing, but like new things. 

[Lefty87]

1 minute ago, hanfrac said:

I don't think you understood my point.  The prior poster shared their experience with Apex-to-0211's.  I'm saying "I didn't have this experience."  I did not claim that PXG lies.  I acknowledge the possibility of a bad shaft match.

I see. My apologies. I was more referring to the statement that PXG is not as good as other OEM offerings...I understand the clubs not working out for you, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t as good as any other offering. If I went off my personal experiences, I would say Callaway isn’t as good as other OEM’s, which I know couldn’t be further from the truth...I just didn’t get along with my CF16 setup. 

[mgoblue83]

49 minutes ago, cwilk said:

 

LOL.  Are you talking about the 0211's?  I've played several of their products and with the exception of their Gen 1 driver, every product has been as good as any other major OEM offering.  I don't play them now because I like to change clubs every so often, but that bold comment is ridiculous.  Even their 0211's are as good as any major OEM cast GI offering.  My son went from the Apex 19's to the first gen 0211's and combined with the Elevate VSS shafts they feel much better than the Apex and perform the same.

 

Yes, I'm talking about every single release since that original forged blade. I'm not saying they don't work for some people but the club heads changed dramatically in size, shape, and construction since that very first release. 

 

Comparing every single PXG release since that original blade:

Bigger club head - check

Longer blade length - check

Thicker top line - check

More offset - check

Jacked lofts - check

Hollow body cast - check

Cheaper materials - check

Mass produced - check

 

FYI - there isn't much difference between any OEM's cast game improvement offering and a Top Flight box set and while you may take offense to that comment the point is the PXG clubs are not exclusive, they don't perform better, and they certainly aren't worth premium pricing. 

[TheMoneyShot]

Maybe Bobby P is trying to fatten up the pig to sell it?  I often wondered what the plan would be for PXG if something happened to BP?

Edited February 3, 2021 by TheMoneyShot

[setter02]

1 hour ago, Eric05 said:

It's like a car dealership. That list's a car at lets say 35,000. Someone comes in offers 33,000. They say no. And then a week later they end up offering it at the 33,000. Losing all creditability. 

 

Bad analogy.  They could have over estimated the market and over valued that car.  Dropped price when more interest showed that $35k was a deal breaker, but $33k wasn't.  No different than someone selling a club here, but dropping the price a week later to move it.  I've done this over a period of time on how much I'm willing to eat in difference from original asking price.  Are they/me actually losing credibility?  No.

 

At this point, retailers that were carrying PXG are shaking their heads as they've been basically tossed aside with no regard for this new model.  Apparently the price has changed on some irons 5 times in the past 2 months, usually with no warning to the retailers.  This is just pathetic and bad faith business.  It's possibly going to leave some retailers with inventory that they can't move anymore because customers can get the product cheaper straight from the OEM.  

[JoeFrigo]

im not sure whats happening at PXG but whatever it is, im glad it happened. I grabbed a Proto 0811 x for $350 and could not be happier. The reduced price point made me take a chance on a brand new released driver that at the time was cheaper than a SIM, Mavrik, Speezone etc..... it also happened to blow my SIM Max driver away and it wasn't close.

 

Because of the Proto working so well and the reduced prices I immediately bought the new 0211 3w. I think they're quality products. They aren't essentially better than any other OEM, but definitely equal to. Its turned me in to a new customer who now frequently visits the site wanting to impulse buy

[FatThinShank]

They started as a company that said they have the most resources and will make the best but very expensive clubs. If you release new clubs every year or two it’s hard to advertise that because you’re trying to convince someone to upgrade something that they were told is the best it could possibly be. So the price starts to come down to get more customers and now when people get a “discounted” PXG club it feels like you are getting a luxury club for cheap. They are trying to grow bigger just like every company out there and you can’t do that unless you expand your customer base.