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Rory's Rant - Distance Insights Project - Your thoughts?


swagee

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17 minutes ago, storm319 said:


There is literally nothing current rules stopping you from choosing to play with a driver less than 460cc so what you are suggesting is literally achievable without any additional regulation. 

Goodness man.   I’m out of this argument , but can we get a new record ?   You know full well that in the context of competition, that straw man goes up in flames.  This argument is not now or ever been about the recreational player.  It’s about competition. 
 

and I’ve leaned toward  the  camp now of “ hard cap it as is and leave it alone “ after hearing that they would like to rollback only the faster players, leaving the slow guys with even more help.  

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47 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Goodness man.   I’m out of this argument , but can we get a new record ?   You know full well that in the context of competition, that straw man goes up in flames.  This argument is not now or ever been about the recreational player.  It’s about competition. 
 

and I’ve leaned toward  the  camp now of “ hard cap it as is and leave it alone “ after hearing that they would like to rollback only the faster players, leaving the slow guys with even more help.  

 

ill predict he says it at least 12 more times 

 

 

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6 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

I play with two ex pros's, what ball do they use? What ball do I use? What about a plus 4, or a mini tour guy?

 

My opinion (only my opinion, although Im right), is that its the driver, not the ball. From everything ive read, the distance potential of the ball hasnt changed in a hundred years. No one has a problem with a 210 yard 5 iron, especially as that 5 loft is probably a traditional 3 anyway.

 

The issue is the forgiveness of a mishit with a 460. Sport should identify the best, most skilful players, and it doesnt, it identifies the guy who swings the hardest while keeping it on the planet. 

 

The higher spinning ball is interesting as well. Anything that increases the penalty for a mishit is the way to go. No one is against distance per se. Theres no reason you shouldnt be able to hit it 300 plus, but you should have to work for it.

 

What balls would the different players use? There's an incredibly simple test to determine that. Are you currently playing in a tour or mini-tour event? If not, then use whatever ball you want. That's how bifurcation works. It has nothing to do with the talent levels of whomever your playing with in friendly matches, handicap addresses that and always has. 

 

You would also be wrong about ball distance and iron lofts. A robot testing ProV1 urethane balls vs 90s tour balata ball showed a 22-32yard gain on drives with all other conditions being equal. I would imagine that there would be an even greater difference with urethane balls compared against 70s era balata balls given the improvements to both materials sciences and engineering tolerances. 

Additionally, tour players aren't using the increased iron lofts that are common in modern SGI irons that you're discussing. The lofts on Hogan's irons were actually slightly stronger than the P7TW and variants that a lot of the top tour players play

 

Everything else you discuss about how the 460 takes no talent whatsoever is your opinion, and an arbitrary one based on your experience. You advocate rolling back to what 260cc steel driver heads that were popular when you came of age in golf? What about the really old timers who think that we should still be playing with persimmon head woods, or hickory shafts? What makes your line in the sand more correct than theirs? 

 

My line in the sand is based on fact. On certain historical short courses, some guys hit it too far, and these courses are unable to change to adjust to the modern distance. So we should limit ball flight by a small percentage on those courses only to keep these courses viable for tour events. 

 

 

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On 2/22/2021 at 5:24 PM, Nard_S said:

 

 

 

It's not how far off tee, it's how far left into green that is the issue.

 

I'm fairly certain that how far off the tee has a direct impact on how far is left into the green. The two cannot be separated.

 

Here is a question that I was never able to get an answer on in any of the other countless threads on this subject (and not directed at you Nard_S):

 

Lets say there are two main reasons for wanting to roll back distance. Those being 1) to keep old historic courses (which are shorter than modern courses) relevant, and 2) to reduce the often discussed "prevalence of driver/wedge".

 

For issue #2 - it's really not as big of an issue as many people seem to think. I'm not sure if any of yall actually watch the golf you are calling boring, and I'm going to assume not because who wants to spend hours watching something they find boring. I'll let you in on a secret you would know if you actually watched: there are FAR more mid/long iron second shots than there are wedge second shots on every broadcast of every tournament. There's really no debating that, if you actually watched golf. But since in your mind it bores you, I'm going to assume you do not watch it, so you just do not realize the truth of the matter.

 

Now to the first point, and the one I would like those in favor of rolling back equipment to address. The theory is that a roll back of equipment would allow the older, shorter, historic courses to be able to remain in rotation for tournaments. Now, completely ignoring the fact that they just simply cannot support the infrastructure requirements of a modern televised professional golf tournament, lets just focus on the length issue since that is the topic at hand. Right now, if one of these courses were to be played, let's say it would be a driver/flip wedge (not full wedge, because the courses are shorter), so you rollback whatever piece of equipment is deemed best to reduce overall distance. Now, you start hosting tournaments at these courses again (again, this ignores the infrastructure needs). Now, because of the reduced distance, we are at driver/full wedge. So, what has changed, aside from the course being played? Even the bohemoth courses, if they reduce the distance a player can hit the ball due to equipment regulations, you can be assured that the PGA Tour will reduce the playing distance of the holes to accommodate the reduction. So again, what has changed? They're not going to have professionals struggling to hit greens with a 3 wood on a par 4 for a televised professional event. they will offset any mandated rollback by reducing playing length. Instead of stretching the tee boxes to the max and playing 7500 yards, they'll adjust and play the course at 6700-7000 yards, effectively nullifying the intent. Spread over 18 holes, that would be 27-44 yards/hole shorter. Nothing changes in the way televised golf is viewed aside from the announcers gushing over a 280 yard drive instead of a 320 yard drive, but for the average amateur golfer, everything changes, and certainly not for the better as it relates to enjoyment of the game, when there is nothing in that world that needs any adjustments currently.

 

Now, some of you might find struggling mightily enjoyable, and the pursuit of practicing and modifying your strategy/swing to accommodate those changes in equipment enjoyable, but I will say with full confidence that you would be in the vast and overwhelming minority as it relates to average amateur golfers. Professional golfers represent what, 0.01% of the golfing population? I would say that amateurs who actually practice with any regularity (and I'm not talking about whacking balls before a round to loosen a stiff back) probably fit somewhere in that same percentage as it relates to the rest of the golf world. People just do not have the time, or the desire to make time, to put in hours of practice per week to figure out how to overcome reduced performance equipment, and it would lead to a most likely not insignificant number of people just giving up the game due to new found frustration and lack of enjoyment. Would I give it up? Of course not, but I do not represent the average golfer who never practices, and neither do most people who advocate rolling back equipment. We have the skill, ability and desire to put in the work to make the necessary adjustments. We are the overwhelming minority in that regard. Would I personally enjoy having to put in that work? Absolutely not. 

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20 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

the 460 has lowered the height of the rim, using your anology. Any idiot can smash it miles now 

I certainly hope you do realize that that is just simply not true, and do not really believe what it is you say. Look no further than the USGA's own distance report, and look at the average male golfer's driving distance.

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I guarantee everyone would hate it if they had to watch PGA tour players hitting 5 irons into every green with a winning score of 2 under par. It's like the USGA and RnA want to sell fewer tickets.

 

If you want to "protect the game" let it grow and evolve. Keeping it stuck in 1965 will make it die out with the next generation. Golf is just now losing it's stereotype as an old rich dude's game. Rory is right

 

 

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2 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

ill predict he says it at least 12 more times 

 

I'll be happy to stop mentioning it when people stop advocating for a governing body to force them into adoption rather than just making the choice on their own. The competition argument is an excuse and a poor one at that. You have made it clear that the competitive advantage outweighs your satisfaction of playing a smaller driver and that is fine, but stop making it seem like someone is holding a gun to your head. 

Edited by storm319
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11 hours ago, geesecougar2 said:

 

I think the distance is not  just from how far the ball goes, but also how forgiving the clubs are. You can go at a 460cc high MOI driver much harder than even a 260cc 975D, let alone a tiny persimmon, and still maintain accuracy. The size of the sweet spot has probably increased 4-8x in the last 25 years (don't quote me on that number). It changes the entire strategic approach to the game. Even if you attribute 80% of the distance gains to the ball and 20% to the clubhead, that 20% is still a big chunk. 

 

Politically, the OEMs make so much money on balls that rolling back the ball too much brings in a danger of the golf ball becoming a stagnant monopoly like the Spalding basketball and Rawlings baseball. There needs to be room to innovate (or at least feign innovation) and compete, otherwise the industry would implode. 

I'm a mid single digit handicap golfer (currently a 6), and I hit almost every tee shot a hard as I can, with the exception of par 3s simply because I'm playing for a number. 9.5 out of 10 times, I will hit my 175cc Titleist 915 3 wood more flush and straighter than my modern 460 "cant miss" Callaway Epic SubZero driver. Some of the best drives I have ever hit were when I was a much worse golfer and were hit with a Callaway ERC fusion driver, which is somewhere in the realm of 360cc head. I did not start playing golf until 2004, so I have no experience with anything older than that time frame, but that driver for me was long and straight, and I was well into double digit range at that point in time.

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3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Goodness man.   I’m out of this argument , but can we get a new record ?   You know full well that in the context of competition, that straw man goes up in flames.  This argument is not now or ever been about the recreational player.  It’s about competition. 
 

and I’ve leaned toward  the  camp now of “ hard cap it as is and leave it alone “ after hearing that they would like to rollback only the faster players, leaving the slow guys with even more help.  

But without bifurcation, the problem is that rolling back equipment for competition also rolls back equipment for recreational players, and therein lies the problem. Let competitions do as they please. If the governing bodies of those comps feel that instituting a local rule to require reduced performance equipment is in their best interest, than create that exception in the rule book and let them have at it. But, it should not effect the recreational golfer in any way unless that recreational golfer wants to "play what the pros play".

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29 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

My line in the sand is based on fact. On certain historical short courses, some guys hit it too far, and these courses are unable to change to adjust to the modern distance. So we should limit ball flight by a small percentage on those courses only to keep these courses viable for tour events. 

 

 

And given the distance reduction, these historical short courses will still play driver wedge because they are shorter. You have the same thing happening today, just on different courses. Why on earth would anyone ever advocate for changing the way the game is played for the entire world, just to have more of the same on a smaller course? I fail to see the logic in that. The historic courses are still doing what their business model dictates, and that is satisfying the needs of their members sufficiently enough to continue to bring in the revenue required to maintain operations. You want to change the entire game of golf, the way the game is played, and the enjoyment level for the entire golfing population simply because you want to see some of those courses on TV? Can it really get any more selfish than that as it relates to the game of golf?

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34 minutes ago, bigred90gt said:

I'll let you in on a secret you would know if you actually watched: there are FAR more mid/long iron second shots than there are wedge second shots on every broadcast of every tournament. There's really no debating that, if you actually watched golf. But since in your mind it bores you, I'm going to assume you do not watch it, so you just do not realize the truth of the matter.

Yeah, mid irons for 2nd shot on par 5's or par 4's at 500 yards. Duh?

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39 minutes ago, bigred90gt said:

They're not going to have professionals struggling to hit greens with a 3 wood on a par 4 for a televised professional event. they will offset any mandated rollback by reducing playing length. Instead of stretching the tee boxes to the max and playing 7500 yards, they'll adjust and play the course at 6700-7000 yards, effectively nullifying the intent.

So you're saying they are going to De-Tiger proof Augusta if they roll back driver specs and ball specs...................Yeah, okay.

 

Since you started the game in 2004, I suggest you get some old wound balls persimmon & old Hogans and play with them for a time to get a feel for what the real differences are.Then watch Masters and remember that Booby Jones co-designed the layout with hickory shafts in his hands. Then maybe you will understand where  Luddites like me are coming from.

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7 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

So you're saying they are going to De-Tiger proof Augusta if they roll back driver specs and ball specs...................Yeah, okay.

 

Since you started the game in 2004, I suggest you get some old wound balls persimmon & old Hogans and play with them for a time to get a feel for what the real differences are.Then watch Masters and remember that Booby Jones co-designed the layout with hickory shafts in his hands. Then maybe you will understand where  Luddites like me are coming from.

 

ANGC may not, but remember that they only host a single event per year. The PGA Tour hosts many dozens events on TV than all of the other hosts combined and the USGA/R&A would have no control over their rollback attempt being circumvented for all but 3 events per year at the highest level. There is no rollback scenario that will restore that past style of play at the elite level.

Edited by storm319
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11 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

So you're saying they are going to De-Tiger proof Augusta if they roll back driver specs and ball specs...................Yeah, okay.

 

Since you started the game in 2004, I suggest you get some old wound balls persimmon & old Hogans and play with them for a time to get a feel for what the real differences are.Then watch Masters and remember that Booby Jones co-designed the layout with hickory shafts in his hands. Then maybe you will understand where  Luddites like me are coming from.

Here's the thing, that is not the game I learned and not the game I want to play. If you want to play that game, you are free to currently. Why should I be forced to, simply because you want to?

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1 minute ago, bigred90gt said:

Here's the thing, that is not the game I learned and not the game I want to play. If you want to play that game, you are free to currently. Why should I be forced to, simply because you want to?

My point all along is you are not forced to now. We never did back then, we don't now, we don't have to going forward. 

 

To water down Pro level golf so Guy Duffer can feel akin or "like" a Pro because he carries #1 ITW's gear is the dumbest thing since the Kardashian's.

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Problem I see here that nobody seems to bring up is that this idea of bifurcation being the solution and that everyday duffers can use whatever and not be effected is not the full proof plan anyone thinks it is.  Do you see a massive market of non-conforming clubs and balls sitting on the shelves these days?  I sure as heck don't.  Worst I see is the occasional double sided chipper club.  


The point is, bifurcation almost certainly will filter down to the consumer over time and you will not be seeing non-conforming clubs or balls on the shelves.  Doesn't matter that anyone thinks it is stupid that Joe Blow wants to play what Brooks plays even though he is a 20 HCP, the fact is, he does and so does the golfing population at large it seems.

 

In the end, it does negatively effect the duffer.  If you can't go into this guaranteeing that won't happen, then don't do anything at all.  Safe bet.

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24 minutes ago, bigred90gt said:

And given the distance reduction, these historical short courses will still play driver wedge because they are shorter. You have the same thing happening today, just on different courses. Why on earth would anyone ever advocate for changing the way the game is played for the entire world, just to have more of the same on a smaller course? I fail to see the logic in that. The historic courses are still doing what their business model dictates, and that is satisfying the needs of their members sufficiently enough to continue to bring in the revenue required to maintain operations. You want to change the entire game of golf, the way the game is played, and the enjoyment level for the entire golfing population simply because you want to see some of those courses on TV? Can it really get any more selfish than that as it relates to the game of golf?

 

The crazy thing is that this is all fuss is over a handful of courses that would maybe host a major once every couple of decades?

 

Merion is a good example. The East course has hosted majors (all the US Open) 5 times a little over 100 years of existence. By the way, the playing length of its first US Open in 1934 was only 300 yards shorter than its last in 2013. 

 

The USGA has only hosted the US Open at ~50 different courses over 120 tournaments. The vast majority of the courses were removed from consideration long before any of the equipment paradigm shifts that people are complaining about here. The handful of these courses that people whine about becoming irrelevant will still continue to exist with full tee sheets even if another major is never hosted there again.

 

Additionally, the USGA nor the R&A likes to tout history and tradition but didn't seem to concerned with that when they cast aside the original hosts for their respective championships (Newport CC and Preswick respectively). There are reasons why they have not been back to those courses in the past century and during the majority of that time it had little to do with the playing area of the course. 

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7 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

I play with two ex pros's, what ball do they use? What ball do I use? What about a plus 4, or a mini tour guy?

 

My opinion (only my opinion, although Im right), is that its the driver, not the ball. From everything ive read, the distance potential of the ball hasnt changed in a hundred years. No one has a problem with a 210 yard 5 iron, especially as that 5 loft is probably a traditional 3 anyway.

 

The issue is the forgiveness of a mishit with a 460. Sport should identify the best, most skilful players, and it doesnt, it identifies the guy who swings the hardest while keeping it on the planet. 

 

The higher spinning ball is interesting as well. Anything that increases the penalty for a mishit is the way to go. No one is against distance per se. Theres no reason you shouldnt be able to hit it 300 plus, but you should have to work for it.

 

Lol.  What professional players who hit it 300 do you think haven't worked for it?  There are those who believe speed and distance are a natural born gift, so those who weren't endowed with such attributes have most definitely "worked for it".

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1 hour ago, bigred90gt said:

But without bifurcation, the problem is that rolling back equipment for competition also rolls back equipment for recreational players, and therein lies the problem. Let competitions do as they please. If the governing bodies of those comps feel that instituting a local rule to require reduced performance equipment is in their best interest, than create that exception in the rule book and let them have at it. But, it should not effect the recreational golfer in any way unless that recreational golfer wants to "play what the pros play".

So you are saying that the folks running the Masters can decide, as a condition of competition, that the players must play a reduced ball, and maybe even smaller size drivers.

I think they would do that instead of lengthening hole No. 13, and putting some teeth back into hole 15.

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31 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

My point all along is you are not forced to now. We never did back then, we don't now, we don't have to going forward. 

 

To water down Pro level golf so Guy Duffer can feel akin or "like" a Pro because he carries #1 ITW's gear is the dumbest thing since the Kardashian's.

 

If someone wants to play within the rules, then yes you have no choice but to play with conforming equipment. On the other hand, if you want to play with equipment that falls well below the current limits, you are free to do so while adhering to the rules. Advocating for a rollback and then telling naysayers to simply not play by the rules is not a valid solution. 

 

Now with that said, most amateurs do not 100% play by the rules (even with the 2019 simplifications some rules are simply not conducive for public play on a crowded course). However when it comes to equipment, most people don't wanted to be viewed as a cheater even though they may be cheating elsewhere hence the reason why non-conforming equipment has been met with extremely low market demand. A rollback at any level will create barriers for certain players that do not exist today. 

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9 minutes ago, gvogel said:

So you are saying that the folks running the Masters can decide, as a condition of competition, that the players must play a reduced ball, and maybe even smaller size drivers.

I think they would do that instead of lengthening hole No. 13, and putting some teeth back into hole 15.

 

ANGC can do whatever they want, but the fact that they haven't on their own is telling (as it pertains to the ball, it would take an official rule change at all elite levels to get the major OEMs to actually produce reduced balls so that may be part of it). 

 

As for #13, the simplest solution is to reduce par to 4 for that single week per year.

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51 minutes ago, clevited said:

Problem I see here that nobody seems to bring up is that this idea of bifurcation being the solution and that everyday duffers can use whatever and not be effected is not the full proof plan anyone thinks it is.  Do you see a massive market of non-conforming clubs and balls sitting on the shelves these days?  I sure as heck don't.  Worst I see is the occasional double sided chipper club.  


The point is, bifurcation almost certainly will filter down to the consumer over time and you will not be seeing non-conforming clubs or balls on the shelves.  Doesn't matter that anyone thinks it is stupid that Joe Blow wants to play what Brooks plays even though he is a 20 HCP, the fact is, he does and so does the golfing population at large it seems.

 

In the end, it does negatively effect the duffer.  If you can't go into this guaranteeing that won't happen, then don't do anything at all.  Safe bet.

So, the reason you don't see a market for non-conforming clubs, is because they are non-conforming. With bifurcation, they would still be conforming.

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41 minutes ago, gvogel said:

So you are saying that the folks running the Masters can decide, as a condition of competition, that the players must play a reduced ball, and maybe even smaller size drivers.

I think they would do that instead of lengthening hole No. 13, and putting some teeth back into hole 15.

I'm saying if the USGA went the route of bifurcation by introduction of a condition of competition or local rule, yes, the Masters could decide to play reduced ball or smaller size drivers as it would be a viable option for the competition under the rules, if that rule was instituted.

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7 minutes ago, bigred90gt said:

So, the reason you don't see a market for non-conforming clubs, is because they are non-conforming. With bifurcation, they would still be conforming.

Non conforming on the tour.  I think that will filter into what the consumer can or will want to buy over time.

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2 hours ago, Stinger83 said:

I guarantee everyone would hate it if they had to watch PGA tour players hitting 5 irons into every green with a winning score of 2 under par. It's like the USGA and RnA want to sell fewer tickets.

 

If you want to "protect the game" let it grow and evolve. Keeping it stuck in 1965 will make it die out with the next generation. Golf is just now losing it's stereotype as an old rich dude's game. Rory is right

 

 

People also don't understand that lofts have significantly strengthened since back in the day, so watching guys hit a " 6 iron" into a green is the same thing as the old school 4 iron. 

 

If you just take every club they're hitting and add subtract 2 it makes it a much more relatable comparison. A 500 yard hole is a 300 yard drive and a 200 yd 5 iron or yesterday's 3 iron. Ya, not too crazy. A long par 4 requiring a normal length drive and then effectively a long iron for the approach, makes sense. 

 

People love to get bent out of shape like " he just hit driver 6 iron into that 520 yard hole" when they don't understand that it was the same thing as jack hitting a driver 4 iron, which while a little bit longer than people were back then, isn't nearly as big of a deal. Just a lazy argument. They are hitting pretty similar clubs to what they have in the past loft for loft, they just have a different number stamped on them now. 

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13 minutes ago, clevited said:

Non conforming on the tour.  I think that will filter into what the consumer can or will want to buy over time.

I would think for the majority of golfers, which are those that don't play tournaments and don't even have legit handicaps, but like to "play by the rules" as best they think they can (with the occasional footwedge or mulligan, heaven forbid, lol) will still want to play a club that is "legal". Just because it is not "legal" for PGA Tour, in my opinion, would only affect a small portion of customers. The good news is if both were available for purchase, then those who want to play the rolled back equipment would have as many options to choose from as they would now, as there would still be a good portion of the golfing public who wants to "play what the pros play". I see it as a win/win for just about everyone, except for the casual fan who watches golf to see them destroy courses. OEMs have double the product line and both lines are making money (they have to engineer it and build them for pros anyway, so selling it can recover that cost and turn a profit), golfers have more options depending on how they want to approach the game, all options are legal and conforming, and those who yearn for TV golf to represent the days of yore can have their wish as well. Some of us just enjoy watching golf, and will still watch even if they reduce equipment, but aren't in favor of the idea.

Edited by bigred90gt
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15 minutes ago, bigred90gt said:

I would think for the majority of golfers, which are those that don't play tournaments and don't even have legit handicaps, but like to play by the rules as best they think they can (with the occasional footwedge or mulligan, heaven forbid, lol) will still want to play a club that is "legal". Just because it is not "legal" for PGA Tour, in my opinion, would only affect a small portion of customers. The good news is if both were available for purchase, then those who want to play the rolled back equipment would have as many options to choose from as they would now, as there would still be a good portion of the golfing public who wants to "play what the pros play". I see it as a win/win for just about everyone, except for the casual fan who watches golf to see them destroy courses. OEMs have double the product line and both lines are making money (they have to engineer it and build them for pros anyway, so selling it can recover that cost and turn a profit), golfers have more options depending on how they want to approach the game, all options are legal and conforming, and those who yearn for TV golf to represent the days of yore can have their wish as well. Some of us just enjoy watching golf, and will still watch even if they reduce equipment, but aren't in favor of the idea.

 

What I am predicting is, the tour will influence the market much more than anything the USGA says.  I also don't think it will be in OEM's best interest to have double the product line.  That is double the design work, double the tooling, double the store shelf space and they are not going to be making double what they are currently.  I just don't think it would be a wise assumption that things will play out in the way that is touted, e.g. average ams will just continue to buy or have available the non tour variations of equipment.  

 

Agree to disagree though.

Edited by clevited

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1 hour ago, bigred90gt said:

Here's the thing, that is not the game I learned and not the game I want to play. If you want to play that game, you are free to currently. Why should I be forced to, simply because you want to?

That’s the issue for a lot of us...the game you learned to play is a very poor imitation of what the game once was. The bland, dumbed down version you play does not offer the richness and depth that the game was founded on. 

 

The ruling bodies have just realised that the decision to allow the Pro V1/460cc combo was the worst thing that could have happened to golf (20 years too late). To them, it’s only now obvious which direction that poor decision is taking the game and to be honest I don’t think there is anything that can be done now.

 

I feel truly sorry that you missed out on playing the game when it was at its optimum.

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Nothing has to be changed at Augusta. Eleven holes played over par. Six holes played under par. One played even par. That was in 2019 and all four round averages. Thirteen played just over a half a stroke below par at -.53. Four of the six holes that played under par were the par 5's. That's ok. That's EXACTLY as it should be. That shows the course plays as perfectly as it should.

 

HOLE PAR YARDS AVG. SCORE EAGLES BIRDIES PARS BOGEYS DOUBLES OTHERS +/- AVG.
1 4 445 4.12 0 33 204 65 2 0 0.12
2 5 575 4.68 1 125 153 21 4 0 -0.32
3 4 350 3.90 0 69 199 35 1 0 -0.11
4 3 240 3.21 0 20 207 71 6 0 0.21
5 4 495 4.34 0 13 182 103 6 0 0.34
6 3 180 3.00 0 48 210 43 3 0 0.00
7 4 450 4.13 1 41 186 70 6 0 0.13
8 5 570 4.63 4 122 161 17 0 0 -0.37
9 4 460 4.05 0 41 208 54 1 0 0.05
10 4 495 4.25 0 28 186 79 9 2 0.25
11 4 505 4.25 0 21 197 78 7 1 0.25
12 3 155 3.05 0 52 200 38 12 2 0.05
13 5 510 4.47 17 158 102 23 3 1 -0.53
14 4 440 4.08 0 47 189 65 3 0 0.08
15 5 530 4.54 15 148 112 20 8 1 -0.46
16 3 170 2.91 2 63 205 29 5 0 -0.09
17 4 440 4.05 0 39 215 46 4 0 0.05
18 4 465 4.22 0 31 184 79 10 0 0.22
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