Why have we moved to heavier putters?

[j.a.]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:57 AM, cmatthews77 said:

 

To be honest I'm not sure i understand the philosophy behind counter-balancing weight on putter grips.  My assumption would be that if you added more weight at the grip end it would make the head feel lighter than it was but I don't know..

I don’t understand either. The pívot point are the shoulders however the weight on the grips are between the shoulders and the putter, to effectively counter-balance it should be at the other side of the pivot point. Just thing in a boom like the image below, the red arrow is the counter balance of the camera. It’s just physics but marketing might have twisted physics.

[Buzzkill]

We don’t, at least us old timers where 320 grams is just fine!

[Fairways_and_Greens]

2 hours ago, j.a. said:

I don’t understand either. The pívot point are the shoulders however the weight on the grips are between the shoulders and the putter, to effectively counter-balance it should be at the other side of the pivot point. Just thing in a boom like the image below, the red arrow is the counter balance of the camera. It’s just physics but marketing might have twisted physics.

There is definitely a release to the putter head. Counter balancing allows an overall heavier head (higher MOI) without impacting the feel of release.

[PracticeSwinger]

Dont shoot the messenger here - but I found it interesting that the Burnt Edges blog mentions that, while chasing higher MOI (mainly with far back CoG), heavier heads were creating a side effect... momentum particularly at the end of the backswing was causing the heavier heads to keep drifting back (and face opening to the path) even though the effort of the player at that moment was to stop the backswing and initiate the front swing; think huge tanker (still drifting even though the motors have started rotating in reverse order)... from there, players effort was to close the face (and it could cause open/close/open oscillations; by momentum/gravity/effort - a big no-no)... basically that the player was losing a bit of control with the heavier head... even though the idea was to have a stable pendulum with a sledgehammer... food for thought

[JungleJimbo]

24 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Burnt Edges blog mentions that, while chasing higher MOI (mainly with far back CoG), heavier heads were creating a side effect... momentum particularly at the end of the backswing was causing the heavier heads to keep drifting back (and face opening to the path) 

@MtlJayMan: Do you have a link to that Burnt Edges blog post pls?

 

Am curious whether similar observations led to the “FCG” putter concept eg Cleveland and Taylormade?

(vs the ‘conventional’ rearwards weighting for higher MOI...

sorry if getting slightly away from OP’s original question!)

 

..Edit: Found this...

 

Burnt Edges Consulting: 

https://bargolfinstruction.blogspot.com/2018/?m=1

“If you have a perception of straight back and straight through and fight a push, we would highly recommend a putter with the cog closer to the face and a slight amount of toe hang. It might be a simple solution to your problem.”

Sunday, September 30, 2018

Owner's Manual for Putters - Face Balanced Mallet”

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by JungleJimbo

[dlygrisse]

I putted for many years with an old Ping Anser, that I bought new in the late 80's.  I was a great lag putter with it but struggled at times with the short ones.  When I went with a heavier putter I started making more of the knee knockers that you want to make, but maybe my lag putting has dropped off a bit.  I've been hitting putts in my basement this winter with the Ping, it's feeling really good...I might have to take it for a spin this spring, could even add a bit of lead tape.  Hmmmmm......

[dlygrisse]

16 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Dont shoot the messenger here - but I found it interesting that the Burnt Edges blog mentions that, while chasing higher MOI (mainly with far back CoG), heavier heads were creating a side effect... momentum particularly at the end of the backswing was causing the heavier heads to keep drifting back (and face opening to the path) even though the effort of the player at that moment was to stop the backswing and initiate the front swing; think huge tanker (still drifting even though the motors have started rotating in reverse order)... from there, players effort was to close the face (and it could cause open/close/open oscillations; by momentum/gravity/effort - a big no-no)... basically that the player was losing a bit of control with the heavier head... even though the idea was to have a stable pendulum with a sledgehammer... food for thought

This would explain why I don't like the high MOI putters.  I always seem to pull them left out of nowhere on occasion. 

[PracticeSwinger]

15 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

@MtlJayMan: Do you have a link to that Burnt Edges blog post pls?

 

Am curious whether similar observations led to the “FCG” putter concept eg Cleveland and Taylormade?

(vs the ‘conventional’ rearwards weighting for higher MOI...

sorry if getting slightly away from OP’s original question!)

 

..Edit: Found this...

 

Burnt Edges Consulting: 

https://bargolfinstruction.blogspot.com/2018/?m=1

“If you have a perception of straight back and straight through and fight a push, we would highly recommend a putter with the cog closer to the face and a slight amount of toe hang. It might be a simple solution to your problem.”

Sunday, September 30, 2018

Owner's Manual for Putters - Face Balanced Mallet”

 

 

 

That’s the right blog... find the articles on; your putter head might need a diet or something to that extent (3-4 articles I think)... interesting read and as I said, food for thought if you feel that the putter is controlling your stroke...

[Aviador Naval]

18 hours ago, dlygrisse said:

I putted for many years with an old Ping Anser, that I bought new in the late 80's.  I was a great lag putter with it but struggled at times with the short ones.  When I went with a heavier putter I started making more of the knee knockers that you want to make, but maybe my lag putting has dropped off a bit.  I've been hitting putts in my basement this winter with the Ping, it's feeling really good...I might have to take it for a spin this spring, could even add a bit of lead tape.  Hmmmmm......

I’m a few months ahead of you on the exact same journey.  I’ve decided my 80s vintage MnBn Anser feels better than any other putter I’ve used - including numerous OTR Camerons and Bettinardis and a handful of Odyssey inserts.  I had a well known and highly respected custom putter guy make me a 320g Dalehead Anser replica.  Absolute piece of artwork but felt like dog squeeze.  Makes me wonder if it’s possible the creep upward in weight was driven by attempting to make carbon and stainless feel as good as the MnBn designs folks were busy copying from Karsten’s designs.

 

BTW, the old Ping is now utterly safe in the bag.  Jump in - the water is fine and as an added bonus you will reduce to zero the chances somebody lifts your putter from your bag.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Aviador Naval

[achappy]

13 hours ago, Aviador Naval said:

I’m a few months ahead of you on the exact same journey.  I’ve decided my 80s vintage MnBn Anser feels better than any other putter I’ve used - including numerous OTR Camerons and Bettinardis and a handful of Odyssey inserts.  I had a well known and highly respected custom putter guy make me a 320g Dalehead Anser replica.  Absolute piece of artwork but felt like dog squeeze.  Makes me wonder if it’s possible the creep upward in weight was driven by attempting to make carbon and stainless feel as good as the MnBn designs folks were busy copying from Karsten’s designs.

 

BTW, the old Ping is now utterly safe in the bag.  Jump in - the water is fine and as an added bonus you will reduce to zero the chances somebody lifts your putter from your bag.

 

I don't know how MnBn feels but I just recently picked up a BeNi J Blade and it feels fantastic.  Been putting around in the basement since I picked it up and balance, feel and setup is great.  Can't wait to get it out to a putting green as well as the course.

 

I have used a Ping Zing 5BZ and a Pal 5BZ and putted pretty well but always thought they were probably little too light.  So once I found out BeNi putters weighed more I kept my eye out for one.

[bargolf]

I have enjoyed reading this thread.

 

Some things to consider.

1. Player posture

2. source of motion ex. core rotation or arm swing

3. Physical strength. size of players forearms and/or shoulders.

4. That total weight and balance point are separate issues to consider.

 

all of these help explain why all these different opinions are correct. 

[2Down]

It’s all marketing to my mind.  I putt with an old manganese bronze anser with the sound slot.   It’s pretty light compared to modern things.  
Seems the marketing dept was able to convince many that heavier was better.  To me lighter is better feeling as the ball can react with something lighter.  Taken to an extreme imagine a one ton putter hitting a ball, you wouldn’t feel a thing.  if feel helps you learn what works a lighter putter should work better 

Edited March 4, 2021 by 2Down

[sm_watts]

I have noticed that my backswing is all over the place with lighter putters.  When I pull out some of my old TPM putters, my backswing is pretty erratic, and as a result I don't hit the exact middle of the face very often at impact.  But when I switch back to my newer heavier putters, the backswing goes back to being online and I strike the middle of the face much more consistently. 

[cristphoto]

At this point I just believe its what you get accustomed to.  For years I putted well with a Ping berylium copper Anser 2 putter.  Then the Scotty Cameron craze hit and I got a Newport 2 (Anser knockoff).  It was noticeably heavier but I told myself "its a Scotty so it must be better". I've used it for the past several years with no complaints.  A couple weeks ago I played and the greens were a bit lumpy (result of frosts and thaws) so I got out my old Ping again.  It felt very light (and odd) compared to the Newport.  But I'm sure playing a few more rounds with it I would mentally adjust to it again.  

Edited March 4, 2021 by cristphoto

[phizzy30]

I think it's mostly feel.  I myself prefer heavier putters whereas my cousin loves the old anser style putter which is super light in comparison.  I have a Scotty Newport that has two 15 gram weights on the sole and it just feels right for my putting stroke.  I've had it for 11 years and I usually never keep a putter for longer than 3. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by phizzy30

[RainShadow]

350 is the limit for me, and even then I use a 93g grip to balance it so it doesn't feel like a sledge hammer.

I've been messing around with a Mizuno Betti BC4 @ 343g lately, as well as a couple of other 340'ish putters with great success. 

 The greens I play most often are pretty quick and I find my lag putting suffers with putters over 350g

Slower greens are a bit better with the heavy heads for me.

[RobotDoctor]

On 2/4/2021 at 9:56 AM, theothertwo said:

Most modern putters I believe range from 330 to 360g on average.  I think the old Ping Ansers, Wilson 8802s and Bullseye putters were all lighter than this and they won a lot of tournaments.  Why heavier putters?  Sorry if this a dumb question  or has been addressed before.

 

As others have said, primarily green speeds.  I find it easier to keep a heavier putter on path when making a softer (lighter) stroke as compared to a harder stroke on slower greens.  I can use a heavier putter to make a longer/harder stroke on slow greens if I need to.

[PixlPutterman]

I havent. I have zero speed control over 340g

[DaveGoodrich]

On 2/16/2021 at 3:17 PM, MtlJayMan said:

Dont shoot the messenger here - but I found it interesting that the Burnt Edges blog mentions that, while chasing higher MOI (mainly with far back CoG), heavier heads were creating a side effect... momentum particularly at the end of the backswing was causing the heavier heads to keep drifting back (and face opening to the path) even though the effort of the player at that moment was to stop the backswing and initiate the front swing; think huge tanker (still drifting even though the motors have started rotating in reverse order)... from there, players effort was to close the face (and it could cause open/close/open oscillations; by momentum/gravity/effort - a big no-no)... basically that the player was losing a bit of control with the heavier head... even though the idea was to have a stable pendulum with a sledgehammer... food for thought

 

This makes a lot of sense to me.   It is probably the explanation for the conventional wisdom that lighter putters are better for slow greens, and why lots of folks say they struggle with lag putting with heavy putters.  For long putts, or for slow greens, you need a faster swing, which means more "inertia" to overcome in the transition.    To me, it seems that overcoming that inertia could easily lead to consistency issues with face closure and speed control.   Personally, high moi mallets are great for short putts, but I struggle lag putting with them.  

[A.Princey]

I think it all depends on the grip style and grip pressure by the player. So many putters come with oversize and jumbo diameter grips on them nowadays, that any traditional weighted styles begin feeling too light. I also think that for yippy players, it's better to engage the larger muscles that are less prone to twitching, hence the heavier designs as well. 

 

However, if you decrease your grip pressure to match faster greens, a lighter putter with a traditional grip might work better. I've always found a delicate balance in varied grip pressure and green speeds to be essential, and that's why more grip pressure is needed to "control" a more accelerated stroke on slower greens. With this increased grip pressure for slower greens, a heavier head is necessary to keep the same balance & feel in the hands. I think this is why Tiger usually goes heavier on slow greens, ie Open conditions. Ymmv

Edited March 5, 2021 by A.Princey