Roast my swing

[DoubleAA93]

Biggest issue you see?

Why do I suck lol. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbxyI78Awd4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMnxTH-3guI

Edited February 6, 2021 by DoubleAA93
Trying to embed videos

[highpro]

Well, your arm swing is too long.  There’s no way an iron should ever get close, let alone past, horizontal.  You’ve the two great swing lengtheners working left across the chest (or right arm over bend) and left wrist extension (or not enough right wrist bend).
So don’t let your left arm get across your chest (or feel like you don’t fold your right arm at all), and keep your left wrist flat (or bend your right wrist backward more).  

Start with some 3/4 length swings with a 7-i and the intention of hitting the ball about 100 yards. Film swings dtl and make sure that your left wrist is flat with left arm parallel to the ground and stays flat all the way down. 
 

[DoubleAA93]

21 minutes ago, highpro said:

Well, your arm swing is too long.  There’s no way an iron should ever get close, let alone past, horizontal.  You’ve the two great swing lengtheners working left across the chest (or right arm over bend) and left wrist extension (or not enough right wrist bend).
So don’t let your left arm get across your chest (or feel like you don’t fold your right arm at all), and keep your left wrist flat (or bend your right wrist backward more).  

Start with some 3/4 length swings with a 7-i and the intention of hitting the ball about 100 yards. Film swings dtl and make sure that your left wrist is flat with left arm parallel to the ground and stays flat all the way down. 
 

I like the left arm not across the chest idea. 💡. Never thought about it like that but I can picture that well. I agree that the swing is far too long. I’ve always had the left wrist extension problem which makes for disaster days when the timing is off. I will work on this thanks!! 

[DoubleAA93]

1 hour ago, laneholt said:

DoubleAA,

    Can I assume you are asking WHY your shots are going - LEFT ? You certainly don’t have a swing that SUCKS ! It is fairly efficient ,in fact !

Thanks!

Yes I have been stuck with pulled shots recently throughout the bag.

Played a round yesterday and stopped it by tucking my right elbow in closer at address, with the bend of the elbow facing skyward. 

Left elbow pointed toward target.

This let my right arm fold better and prevented the "flying elbow" at the top.

Additionally this put my path back to in-to-out and straight/ draw flight instead off pull/ pull hook

 

This along with the advice from highpro to shorten the backswing had me hitting them pretty well for the time being.

[JoacoDiaz]

I think your swing has a lot of good things but the biggest issue in my opinion is what you called the "flying elbow". It is hard to tell a player to just shorten your swing because this is not something you are trying to do, it is happening for some other reasons. I believe you take the club a little inside then you go long in order to have time to shallow it on the downswing. If you have the chance look at some of Mike Bender's exercises he does, he promotes the ball to start right and draw as you see with his star player Zack Johnson. I feel if you can take it outside a little more, it will help you to have more time to shallow the club, and the club face will be more open at impact helping the ball to start right and drawing. Again this is just my opinion. Thanks and good luck!

[BraxtonFullerton]

As Joaco said, the flying elbow is because your backswing is just too long. I get guilty of the same thing (check my profile pic).

 

Shorten up the swing; think 75% and make that your consistent thought.

[SchneakyShort]

You don't suck! To me it looks like a swing that has been the same way for quite a while and gets the job done more often than it doesn't.

 

However IF you're willing to put in the hours to make some new things work... The big fundamental error as stated above is that the hands are indeed doing a bit too much of the work here. On paper the fixes are super simple, just find a way to keep the hands more in front of your chest throughout the swing. Think "width" or keeping trail arm straighter and trail elbow more in front of your chest. As a consequence you will make a "shorter" swing with your hands but you will also probably start turning more efficiently and use your core as the engine more which will lead to more power. Also helps keeping a more powerful shaft lean at impact. Numerous training aids for this problem, hitting balls with a "figure 8" strap, ball between forearms/elbows etc. 

 

EDIT added a link. And no, it does not have to be the super-hyper-striker-tour ball. Any ball will do but it helps if you can connect it to a neck key strap or whatever those are called

Edited February 9, 2021 by SchneakyShort

[DoubleAA93]

2 hours ago, SchneakyShort said:

You don't suck! To me it looks like a swing that has been the same way for quite a while and gets the job done more often than it doesn't.

 

However IF you're willing to put in the hours to make some new things work... The big fundamental error as stated above is that the hands are indeed doing a bit too much of the work here. On paper the fixes are super simple, just find a way to keep the hands more in front of your chest throughout the swing. Think "width" or keeping trail arm straighter and trail elbow more in front of your chest. As a consequence you will make a "shorter" swing with your hands but you will also probably start turning more efficiently and use your core as the engine more which will lead to more power. Also helps keeping a more powerful shaft lean at impact. Numerous training aids for this problem, hitting balls with a "figure 8" strap, ball between forearms/elbows etc. 

 

EDIT added a link. And no, it does not have to be the super-hyper-striker-tour ball. Any ball will do but it helps if you can connect it to a neck key strap or whatever those are called

Yes sir, I am no stranger to the elbows together idea/move. Had me hitting the ball very well last season. 

I usually just squeeze them together to start the swing and try to maintain that distance. This helps a ton with my driver as well.

Ill admit I've never used an aid to do it, but it may be worth investing in since I seem to drift back toward the flying elbow. 

I like the price on the callaway figure 8 band lol

[nsxguy]

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Looks like a lot of good there... 

 

Tough to tell from the face-on view, but the feedback from @highpro still looks spot-on. Again tough to tell from the face-on but it looks like you're taking it away inside, and you're still getting well past parallel at the top.

 

One of the same things I'm struggling with... Every time I think I'm limiting my backswing, I look at video and it's WAY longer than I thought it was... Hard to tell yourself to stop rotating with the arms.

 

I also look at it and you're swaying back to the right foot at the top of the backswing, and then sliding left from there through the downswing. Also an issue I struggle with. If you can get that weight back onto that left foot earlier in the backswing you won't have to slide so aggressively to get your hands ahead of the ball at impact. 

 

From what my limited knowledge knows, that slide back to the left would help avoid getting stuck on the right side and a bad OTT move. You can hit with decent power too... But it's not the most consistent move. 

 

I'd try to limit your backswing and get your weight shifted left earlier. Note... The two work together. If you're getting the weight shifted back it's harder to keep extending that backswing--your body will stop it. 

 

My $0.01 anyway--since I don't have enough knowledge to give you 2 cents...

 

 

[DoubleAA93]

alright fellas had some time to hit the range again. Really tried to focus on keeping my elbows close and arms in front of my chest. I also attempted to stop around left arm parallel.
 

As you can see that didn’t happen. Still having that flip through impact. I will have to put in a lot of work to stop over bending right arm and extending my wrists. It just feels really weak and short when I don’t do that. 
 

Thanks everyone for the tips I think we are on the right track! 
 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

On 2/9/2021 at 7:13 PM, laneholt said:

Beta,

 

     The humans DOMINANT HANDS CONTROL the movements of it’s ARMS . If the RIGHT THUMB is kept FACING BACK / palm upward during the DS the arms will not be able to rotate over. Our HANDS CONTROL their movements . They can not rotate/ roll over unless their DOMINANT HANDS instruct them to do so ! 
  Check out * Cortical Homunculus * and your will understand. Control of our HANDS in the golf swing is the key to a successful swing .

 

Don't you EVER GET TIRED of saying the same things OVER AND OVER?  None of this is usually the root swing fault someone is wanting to have diagnosed nor any kind of "fix".

[Hawkeye77]

Swing looks pretty good, I'm no coach so won't offer any tips, but I would guess you figure out the root issue that needs addressing and you'll see some fast improvement.

[DoubleAA93]

26 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Swing looks pretty good, I'm no coach so won't offer any tips, but I would guess you figure out the root issue that needs addressing and you'll see some fast improvement.

Thanks, yeah I feel like I’m pretty close. I can go from shooting low 80s to high 90s really quick, just not sure what the big consistency killer is. My guess would be the flip lol. 

[Hawkeye77]

Is it a flip?  Hard to tell on the vid.  Maybe that's something to explore.

[DoubleAA93]

I’m not sure either. Maybe it’s not it just looks like I lose my angles too fast in the downswing and cast it around when club is at my right leg. Here’s a slow motion 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

You need @MonteScheinblum to drop in!

[golfsticks]

Often, losing angles, also called bounce out, is from lower body not going down enough.    Sit down more in transition and shaft will stay up.

Edited February 13, 2021 by golfsticks

[betarhoalphadelta]

Definitely looks like a flip.

 

On takeaway you look good. But at the top, you've got the face open:

 

 

See the cupping of the right wrist and the angle of the face? Note: not saying this is the problem, but when you have the face open here you need to close it before impact. 

 

Fast forward just before P6:

 

 

It's not the easiest thing to see because of the blur (hence why I stopped before P6 so you can see it against your body instead of against the snowy ground), but you can see that the clubface is vertical or even slightly open relative to vertical. 

 

If you advance frame by frame through the video, you can see that you hold it open even longer.

 

With that, the ONLY way for you to close the clubface from that position is to flip and do it with your hands, because there's no time to do it via rotation.

 

So, however you do it, you need to be getting to the point where the clubface starts closing from the top to P6, because if you're not there at P6 it's too late.

 

Again, this is exactly the same thing I was focused on. 

 

Here's me at the same pre-P6 position from my the initial video I posted on my thread:

 

 

I've got other issues going on here too, but you can see that same open clubface. 

 

Here's me as of last Tuesday:

 

 

It may not look like much, but that's probably at least 20 degrees. Maybe even 30. That's 20-30 degrees of face closure that my hands aren't responsible for in the last few fractions of a second from P6 to impact.

 

I don't know enough to tell you how to fix it... One of my bigger issues was opening on takeaway, which isn't your problem, and for me to keep it more closed on takeaway helped me avoid being open at the top. 

 

The other thing was to try to keep the left wrist more bowed at the top. BTW, when I felt like my wrist was bowed, it's not like I was pulling some Dustin Johnson move. The difference was this... Old was on the left, new on the right. 

 

 

It doesn't look like much in the actual wrist, but you can see the clubface angle is more closed on the right at the top--maybe 15-25 degrees? The only difference was trying to hold a little bow on the wrist, which basically only got it from slightly extended to neutral, rather than bowed. 

 

But that coupled with trying to drop the arms in close to the body at the start of the downswing allowed me to get a lot more closed at P6, which makes it a lot easier to be closed at impact without a big flip. 

 

Someone else is probably better at giving you the "HOW" to get there, but that's what I see. Open at the top, which continues to open way late in the downswing, which absolutely forces you to flip in the impact zone so you don't hit the ball 40 degrees right of the target line. 

[DoubleAA93]

Thanks for the analysis, our swings look pretty dang close to the same. I also don’t see how people can get bowed at the top, I just can’t get my wrist to do it without a ton of tension. Trying to find a decent pro to fix me up but there aren’t many options in WV lol. This season will be my second playing but I’ve dealt with this flipping move since I started looking at video. 
I may try just laying the club off mid backswing by rotating my forearms more and see what happens.  

[golfsticks]

56 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

It's not the easiest thing to see because of the blur (hence why I stopped before P6 so you can see it against your body instead of against the snowy ground), but you can see that the clubface is vertical or even slightly open relative to vertical. 

 

With that, the ONLY way for you to close the clubface from that position is to flip and do it with your hands, because there's no time to do it via rotation.

 

Not sure why some have an aversion to an open club face at the top, or near P6.  An open face can absolutely be closed without a stall and stab,  and fairly easy too when the pivot cranks the correct way- the inward has to outpace the outer, pretty simple.  OP would have a more difficult time as the lower body did not down set like it could have.

[betarhoalphadelta]

You can probably get a more complete idea of my changes if you look at my thread--and I plan to keep updating there as this is ongoing...

 

https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1785372-high-handicapper-looking-for-swing-feedback-due-to-inconsistent-contact/

 

What helped me was to work backwards.

 

• There's an AMG video in that thread that talks about the feeling of getting open at impact and gives a drill to go form P6 to impact. So I started working that drill.
• From there, I started trying to figure out how to get from the top of the downswing into the proper position at P6. And I realized that to get there, I had to ingrain that move of dropping the hands at the start of the downswing rather than pulling them around me, or else I would never end up where I wanted to be at P6. So I started working on keeping the arms a little tighter in and connected through the downswing, and on getting the forearm to rotate as I dropped the hands so the face would be a little more closed at P6.
• Part of that involved me focusing on taking the backswing away less inside and trying not to rotate the forearm open on takeaway, and to KEEP the face more closed hinging the wrists rather than rotating the wrists on takeaway. The "feel" for me is to feel like my wrist is bowed through that whole movement. It's not actually bowed like DJ or Rahm, as the video shows. But the clubface at the top doesn't lie... A neutral wrist angle rather than extended results in a clubface that's more closed.  

The result, about 6 weeks in to really battling this, is a movement that is so far more consistent than my flip. Coming into impact I feel like the face is square without me working really hard to square it with timing. 

 

Obviously it requires a lot more practice to get it ingrained without thought. And I know I need to work on some lower-body stuff as well because I'm too much on my toes and not maintaining hip depth. And then once I get that together, it's all about making it as repeatable as I can because although I'm closing the face, the changes required setup adjustments that I'm not consistent in my striking--I keep tending towards toe strikes. 

 

But I feel like I've been improving on that flip, which is going to be important going forward.

[betarhoalphadelta]

35 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

 

Not sure why some have an aversion to an open club face at the top, or near P6.  An open face can absolutely be closed without a stall and stab,  and fairly easy too when the pivot cranks the correct way- the inward has to outpace the outer, pretty simple.  OP would have a more difficult time as the lower body did not down set like it could have.

 

Can you explain more? I'm not challenging... I just don't really understand.

 

I agree that an open face at the top isn't a huge issue--you have a lot of time to close that. But it feels like there's not a lot of time to close an open face at P6 just via pivot--I would think your hips/torso/shoulders can't rotate fast enough because of the speed of the club at that point to handle closing the face...

 

I'm sure I'm missing something... I'm new 😉 

[golfsticks]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Can you explain more? I'm not challenging... I just don't really understand.

 

I agree that an open face at the top isn't a huge issue--you have a lot of time to close that. But it feels like there's not a lot of time to close an open face at P6 just via pivot--I would think your hips/torso/shoulders can't rotate fast enough because of the speed of the club at that point to handle closing the face...

 

I'm sure I'm missing something... I'm new 😉 

 

Imagine a staggered running track and you ( force ) are in the inside lane,  and your opponent ( mass ) is in the outside lane as the gun sounds.  If both of you run the same speed you will arrive coming out of the first turn side by side, although some width apart depending on number of lanes.

If you ( force ) alone while running make a sudden inward curve toward the inside of the track area at your same speed, which is arcing away from your opponent ( mass ) and you want your opponent to keep up with you on an equivalent arc to the force that left the track,  the mass will have to travel at least double your speed to even catch up.    That little jog to the inside, to the inside of the track, is the little jog ( change of direction ) that happens just before, or at, P6, and the mass is forced to catch up to the force via acceleration, and the acceleration squares. 

 
It's like when playing tag and someone is chasing you  just about when they are  ready to touch your shirt you change directions.   

Same type deal.       Mass seeks Force.

[highpro]

Better! Nice work. But now you need to hit some 3/4 shots with the intention of hitting the ball 100 yards where you have a flat left wrist with left arm parallel to the ground and then your left wrist stays flat all the way down. This would include when the shaft is parallel to the ground. And, upon moving the camera to face on, you should have a flat left wrist at impact.
 

The reason you are stalling/flipping is so you can square the blade. Currently you are squaring the blade by making the head of the club pass the grip of the club. Unloading those angles to square the blade is what gives you so much trouble with fat and thin.  As long as your subconscious thinks that you’re about to hit it dead right you will not improve your pivot. 
 

Hit a few hundred little punch draws and then the rest of the swing will start to clean up.

[DoubleAA93]

9 hours ago, highpro said:

Better! Nice work. But now you need to hit some 3/4 shots with the intention of hitting the ball 100 yards where you have a flat left wrist with left arm parallel to the ground and then your left wrist stays flat all the way down. This would include when the shaft is parallel to the ground. And, upon moving the camera to face on, you should have a flat left wrist at impact.
 

The reason you are stalling/flipping is so you can square the blade. Currently you are squaring the blade by making the head of the club pass the grip of the club. Unloading those angles to square the blade is what gives you so much trouble with fat and thin.  As long as your subconscious thinks that you’re about to hit it dead right you will not improve your pivot. 
 

Hit a few hundred little punch draws and then the rest of the swing will start to clean up.

Thank you!! Now to get to work.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

@DoubleAA93 FYI are you taking the video in full speed and then slowing it down via software? Or are you taking slow-mo video? 

 

I've found with my phone (Google Pixel 5) it has a 1/8x slow-motion video option which doesn't have the same blur as yours...

 

It might be easier to see future videos if you capture them in slow-mo... 

[DoubleAA93]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

@DoubleAA93 FYI are you taking the video in full speed and then slowing it down via software? Or are you taking slow-mo video? 

 

I've found with my phone (Google Pixel 5) it has a 1/8x slow-motion video option which doesn't have the same blur as yours...

 

It might be easier to see future videos if you capture them in slow-mo... 

I am using an iPhone X it does 1080p at 240 FPS slow-mo .That’s as high as it can go unfortunately. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

4 minutes ago, DoubleAA93 said:

I am using an iPhone X it does 1080p at 240 FPS slow-mo .That’s as high as it can go unfortunately. 

Hmm... That's plenty. That's HD at 1/8x slow-mo as standard video record/playback speed is 30 FPS. 

 

Not sure where the blur is coming from, then...

[DoubleAA93]

3 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Hmm... That's plenty. That's HD at 1/8x slow-mo as standard video record/playback speed is 30 FPS. 

 

Not sure where the blur is coming from, then...

Yeah me neither looks the same on my phone, so it doesn’t appear to be cause by uploading to YouTube.