Wilson you've lost me

[leftylama]

I really wanted to go with the new Staff CB irons after trying the demo and even placed an order. But I was left dumbfounded when the shop called back 3 days later to say Wilson won't bring the left handed model to Australia.

So Wilson will never get my money in the future and I'll stay loyal to brands that actually look after the lefties.

 

In the end I went T100 which performed just as well but are a little dearer. At least the resale will be miles better.

[RogerinNewZealand]

Thats life,in a few years a lefty set will turn up locally at 60% off,buy them then! They always turn up!

[JasonPetermann]

Pretty sure Wilson will not read this here... 

[monkeyboy]

In my uneducated view - it should be easier not harder to make lefty offerings in our modern times - by every brand.

 

Bigger problem may be Mfg stuck with dead inventory  - but in that case, I would think we could get closer to just in time manufacturing - place and pay for an order - they make it once the order is secure and you get it say 2-4 weeks later (maybe just lefty sets are delayed this way).  

 

Since most crap is made in China, elsewhere...longest leadtime is shipping.  But Amazon can ship stuff to me for free in less than 24 hours...so technically shipping is not a big problem.

 

[jjschafe]

No offense, but I think Wilson weighed the costs vs benefits and told you the same thing, first.  Your fired!  You can't fire me, I quit!  🤣

 

In all seriousness, that has to be frustrating.  All you can do is remember this if there is a situation in the future when you could buy something from them.

[MtlJeff]

I'm a lefty, and i live in Canada so we don't have access to some brands (or at least as easy access, such as PXG for example). 

 

I don't really get to fussy about this stuff anymore. OEMs will go through phases of caring and not caring about lefties. Mizuno historically wasn't great, now they have 2 dedicated lefty combo sets .

 

It comes and goes. I just order what's available at the time

[pinestreetgolf]

42 minutes ago, monkeyboy said:

In my uneducated view - it should be easier not harder to make lefty offerings in our modern times - by every brand.

 

Its not easier or harder.  For every club the OEM makes a mold.  This is extremely expensive.  Then metal is poured into the mold (or multiple molds, in the case of cast irons) and a club is produced.  The mold has one big, up-front cost.  If you can't make back at least what you pay for the mold you can't make money on that mold.  LH molds are different than RH molds, so relatively obscure / low sale clubmakers will never make LH clubs.  They can't overcome the setup cost of planning, designing and making the molds.

[driveandputtmachine]

47 minutes ago, monkeyboy said:

In my uneducated view - it should be easier not harder to make lefty offerings in our modern times - by every brand.

 

Bigger problem may be Mfg stuck with dead inventory  - but in that case, I would think we could get closer to just in time manufacturing - place and pay for an order - they make it once the order is secure and you get it say 2-4 weeks later (maybe just lefty sets are delayed this way).  

 

Since most crap is made in China, elsewhere...longest leadtime is shipping.  But Amazon can ship stuff to me for free in less than 24 hours...so technically shipping is not a big problem.

 

That's the rub.   Wilson makes a left handed CB, it is just not being sold in Australia for whatever reason.

 

Why go to the huge cost of actually making a left handed die for these clubs, eat up time on the floor of the manufacturer, pay for new finishing dies and all of the costs and not make them available everywhere?

 

Left handed clubs are a loss leader for every major brand.  They lose more money making left handed clubs than they do anything else, when that is the case you should want to get them to as wide of an audience as possible.  Not saying they always lose money on every left handed club, but there is a reason why the bargain bin every year is filled with left handed clubs, the manufacturer eats most of those losses through rebates to the retailer, and considering the average profit for  clubs is in the 33-40% area, when they are on sale at the end of the season for half or more off.  Granted you spread out the R&D and advertising costs across left and righties, and if you have the righty eat all of those costs then sure maybe the manufacturer breaks even on clubs sold at 60% off.  Remember the forging die or mold (casting) used to make the left handed clubs costs the same as the right handed version.   The return on investment is just lower.

Edited February 9, 2021 by driveandputtmachine

[pinestreetgolf]

2 minutes ago, driveandputtmachine said:

That's the rub.   Wilson makes a left handed CB, it is just not being sold in Australia for whatever reason.

 

Why go to the huge cost of actually making a left handed die for these clubs, eat up time on the floor of the manufacturer, pay for new finishing dies and all of the costs and not make them available everywhere?

 

Left handed clubs are a loss leader for every major brand.  They lose more money making left handed clubs than they do anything else, when that is the case you should want to get them to as wide of an audience as possible.  Not saying they always lose money on every left handed club, but there is a reason why the bargain bin every year is filled with left handed clubs, the manufacturer eats most of those losses through rebates to the retailer, and considering the average profit for  clubs is in the 33-40% area, when they are on sale at the end of the season for half or more off.  Granted you spread out the R&D and advertising costs across left and righties, and if you have the righty eat all of those costs then sure maybe the manufacturer breaks even on clubs sold at 60% off.  Remember the forging die or mold (casting) used to make the left handed clubs costs the same as the right handed version.   The return on investment is just lower.

 

Interesting, yeah, that doesn't make sense unless it is some COVID thing.

[Tree Levino]

Having managed a large e-commerce operation in Australia for 4 years, I can tell you that the distributors are very fickle there. Shipping costs are so prohibitive and really hurt the bottom line, but that aside I found the margins expectations pretty extreme. I can’t say I’m surprised. 

[setter02]

What is the lefty population down there?  I'm sure they know what their sales numbers have been like for prior generations and go by that.

 

In parts of Canada (Quebec and the Prairies) they can hit almost a 50/50 split, purely based on playing hockey.  These are the highest rates in the world, which I doubt Aus can come close to.  So a smaller brand, targeting an already small population just makes no sense.  No point in bringing in maybe 100 sets for the whole country and selling maybe 30.  Wilson will be over looked by 95% of golfer at least and will stick to the big companies.

Edited February 9, 2021 by setter02

[Mookieb10]

Not for nothing, but if they never offer lefty products, you have nothing to not buy. 

[xkilgorextroutx]

59 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

Having managed a large e-commerce operation in Australia for 4 years, I can tell you that the distributors are very fickle there. Shipping costs are so prohibitive and really hurt the bottom line, but that aside I found the margins expectations pretty extreme. I can’t say I’m surprised. 

 

Likewise, we manufacture in the US and ship worldwide at work and Australia is a pain due to shipping costs. If W/S has low expected volume of sales for lefty clubs as it is, shipping is probably going to eat up a chunk of their margin. 

[Londoner]

If you're the spawn of Satan there's going to be consequences. 🤣

[BraxtonFullerton]

But the fact that their stuff doesn't have a TON of resale value compared to the actual quality of clubs is great for the used market. I bought a set of V6s at the start of last year 4-PW for $350; and the clubs were practically brand new.

Wilson's maybe my favorite golf brand for their understated, classy look, quality, and feel. Availability does leave something to be desired; but as a lefty, I'm used to not being able to demo most clubs/brands in my area of NY anyways.

[Milfordlefty]

1 hour ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

Having managed a large e-commerce operation in Australia for 4 years, I can tell you that the distributors are very fickle there. Shipping costs are so prohibitive and really hurt the bottom line, but that aside I found the margins expectations pretty extreme. I can’t say I’m surprised. 

This is not meant to be an argument to your post, you know more about Australia distribution than I do. BUT, if the equipment is built in China, Australia is closer to China than England, wouldn't the shipping cost be cheaper to Australia? They are shipping right handed sets to Australia, place a nominal upcharge on lefty sets for a custom order to put a box of irons into a larger box, which then goes into a container box, which then goes on a container ship. Some bean counter at Wilson who has a thing against us lefties, "Down with the British as the Colonial Yankees would say". (disclaimer, the last line is satire for those who don't get satire and my mum was a British war bride to the US)

[forrester_fire]

13 minutes ago, Milfordlefty said:

This is not meant to be an argument to your post, you know more about Australia distribution than I do. BUT, if the equipment is built in China, Australia is closer to China than England, wouldn't the shipping cost be cheaper to Australia? They are shipping right handed sets to Australia, place a nominal upcharge on lefty sets for a custom order to put a box of irons into a larger box, which then goes into a container box, which then goes on a container ship. Some bean counter at Wilson who has a thing against us lefties, "Down with the British as the Colonial Yankees would say". (disclaimer, the last line is satire for those who don't get satire and my mum was a British war bride to the US)

 

This is a total guess on my part, since I know even less about global distribution, but my guess is that it's related to the sheer volume of goods being shipped to Europe from China.  It's probably cheaper to hitch a ride on one of the dozens of container ships headed for Europe than the one or two headed for Australia (fabricated numbers, of course).

Edited February 9, 2021 by forrester_fire

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Thats what you get for being a lefty man. Shame on you... now start relearning golf as a righty. 😆

[xkilgorextroutx]

4 hours ago, Milfordlefty said:

This is not meant to be an argument to your post, you know more about Australia distribution than I do. BUT, if the equipment is built in China, Australia is closer to China than England, wouldn't the shipping cost be cheaper to Australia? They are shipping right handed sets to Australia, place a nominal upcharge on lefty sets for a custom order to put a box of irons into a larger box, which then goes into a container box, which then goes on a container ship. Some bean counter at Wilson who has a thing against us lefties, "Down with the British as the Colonial Yankees would say". (disclaimer, the last line is satire for those who don't get satire and my mum was a British war bride to the US)

 

This may be wrong, and I am happy to be corrected if so - I *believe* that their clubs all go through QC in the states, and some may have final assembly here as well. Which would make sense for the higher-end Staff CB irons. So components shipped to the US, assembled and go through the QC process, and then shipped to Australia. If that's the case, and again, that's a big IF since I'm going off of vague recollections of chatter about Wilson/Staff processes, then it makes sense as to why lefty clubs would have a much smaller margin if shipped to Australia given their lower sales numbers vs. righties. 

[leftylama]

I,m used to mfg's not making lh sets, but to make it and just not ship to OZ really p*ssed me off. I was already frustrated at the golf store because they had no l/h P770 or Apex Pro 21 fitting heads either.

 

[ASN21]

12 hours ago, leftylama said:

I really wanted to go with the new Staff CB irons after trying the demo and even placed an order. But I was left dumbfounded when the shop called back 3 days later to say Wilson won't bring the left handed model to Australia.

So Wilson will never get my money in the future and I'll stay loyal to brands that actually look after the lefties.

 

In the end I went T100 which performed just as well but are a little dearer. At least the resale will be miles better.

A blessing in disguise. I would much rather trust Titleist than Wilson.

[MattM97]

I'm surprised they don't even offer LH on special order, like just offer the heads and let a fitter or shop build them to save on shipping cost. I realize this is still expensive to do but it's better than losing potential long time customers. 

 

Luckily as a lefty we are getting some more LH options these days. 

[setter02]

11 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

I realize this is still expensive to do but it's better than losing potential long time customers. 

 

But this isn't the reality of golf for people outside of forums and very avid players (err, ho's).  There are stats (think we used Ipsos-Reid for school projects) that say it takes people 8 years just to contemplate getting new irons.  Of the 6 golfers on my street, none have a set made in the last 10 years. 

 

I have more equipment than all of them combined.  Including my older stuff, I'm sitting on 11 iron sets and still might be picking up 2 more sets of heads this week...

Edited February 9, 2021 by setter02

[MattM97]

1 minute ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

But this isn't the reality of golf for people outside of forums and very avid players.  There are stats (think we used Ipsos-Reid for school projects) that say it takes people 8 years just to contemplate getting new irons.  Of the 6 golfers on my street, none have a set made in the last 10 years.  I have more equipment than all of them combined.

 

But OP's gripe is not that they are no longer making the CB in LH, it's that they are but not offering it in his area.

 

That's like your buddy on the next block getting the brand new driver you want but you can't because they don't want to deliver it. 

[setter02]

9 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

 

But OP's gripe is not that they are no longer making the CB in LH, it's that they are but not offering it in his area.

 

That's like your buddy on the next block getting the brand new driver you want but you can't because they don't want to deliver it. 

 

But one of your reasoning was losing a potential long time customer.  Very few are complete brand whores (joke for my current sig is fine), let alone for Wilson.  

[MattM97]

1 minute ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

But one of your reasoning was losing a potential long time customer.  Very few are complete brand whores (joke for my current sig is fine), let alone for Wilson.  

 

But there are people who are loyal or brand whores to a certain brand. OP seems like he was with Wilson irons and really wanted these new irons.

 

For me I would just go to a different brand but everyone is different. 

[setter02]

2 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

 

But there are people who are loyal or brand whores to a certain brand. OP seems like he was with Wilson irons and really wanted these new irons.

 

For me I would just go to a different brand but everyone is different. 

 

Yes, but a small OEM company isn't going to bother with 1 person (maybe a new start up would).  If there was more interest and sales justified it, I'm sure they would offer it there.  If you really want something, you can get it, but I'm sure it would cost the OP more money than they are willing to spend to get that item.  So to me, it's just a sour grapes scenario that isn't going to change.

 

I basically told the new Hogan company that they could take my money for a set of PTx/Icon heads.  They wouldn't ship them to Canada.  I called them out for being pretty dam pathetic and losing a customer as I was going to order wedges as well and any potential future from me.  I found a near new set on ebay for $300 less than what I would have paid through them and then sold the shafts for another $150.  

 

Now I just wanted to try the heads out and have zero loyalty to them, but by making a pretty simple thing much harder than it really should have been (I ship clubs to the US, it's not hard...), I won't look at their stuff again unless I find it used and I can flip it.

[lefthack]

7 hours ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Its not easier or harder.  For every club the OEM makes a mold.  This is extremely expensive.  Then metal is poured into the mold (or multiple molds, in the case of cast irons) and a club is produced.  The mold has one big, up-front cost.  If you can't make back at least what you pay for the mold you can't make money on that mold.  LH molds are different than RH molds, so relatively obscure / low sale clubmakers will never make LH clubs.  They can't overcome the setup cost of planning, designing and making the molds.

 

It's not like they make the mold by hand, it's machined. Any modern cnc machine can do "mirror" mode. Tada, lefty.

 

Maybe back in the day it was labor intensive to make a second set. But there really isn't an excuse other than "I don't want to". Not wanting to due to market share is understandable, but it isn't a cost issue.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, ASN21 said:

A blessing in disguise. I would much rather trust Titleist than Wilson.

 

Curious as to why you say that.

[tets]

Wilson makes golf clubs?