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Not sure if this is the right section or not but here goes. Im the 2nd assistant super at a country club, our greens chair and other committee members are wanting a more structured method of moving tee markers on a daily basis and for the location to be posted for them. We move markers every day but it has no real structure,  they feel that they play the same distances all the time. 3 of our par 3's are of similar length depending on tee and pin placement. We have 5 pin locations that we rotate so they really aren't playing the same distance every day like they think they are. So my question is anyone a member at a course or know of a place that has structured tee placements per day? We are thinking of just doing a simple front on #1, middle on #2 and back on #3 and so on then the next day #1 is middle, #2 is back, etc. Any help or other ideas would be appreciated. 

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19 minutes ago, TMadigolf said:

Not sure if this is the right section or not but here goes. Im the 2nd assistant super at a country club, our greens chair and other committee members are wanting a more structured method of moving tee markers on a daily basis and for the location to be posted for them. We move markers every day but it has no real structure,  they feel that they play the same distances all the time. 3 of our par 3's are of similar length depending on tee and pin placement. We have 5 pin locations that we rotate so they really aren't playing the same distance every day like they think they are. So my question is anyone a member at a course or know of a place that has structured tee placements per day? We are thinking of just doing a simple front on #1, middle on #2 and back on #3 and so on then the next day #1 is middle, #2 is back, etc. Any help or other ideas would be appreciated. 

As a club member, I do appreciate it when the course is set up to play different lengths on individual holes, albeit with the total length (tee to middle of the green) playing close to the rated yardage.  When I see the first two or three holes playing really short, I start keeping track of the +/- yardage from the measured markers, and let mgmt know if it's more than 100 yards short for the day.  Par threes should, imo, not play the same length (tee to hole location) every day - so a back hole location on a par three doesn't "demand" a front tee location.  I think that tee location and hole location are more significant on par three holes than on par four or par five holes.  I've done setup for several tournaments and we try to ensure that the par three holes would all play at different yardages, the best we can do to require a different club on each of them.

And we've never issued tee locations, only hole locations.  Seems like a lot of work for no beneficial outcome.

Edited by rogolf
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We agree that it's a bit too much thought without much benefit. When i do tee setup or when i train someone to do it i try to make sure i am paying attention to where i am placing them so i can keep the yardage close to the stated number. If i go 10 yards up on #1 I will try to get #2 or 3 that same distance back from the stated number. I agree that it is most important on par 3's, 2 of ours can play pretty similar in distance 150-170, one plays no less than 180 and up to 195 or so, and the 4th is 125 to 140 all from our blue markers so really only those 2 need to be worried about. We are really not sure as to why this is being requested. As an avid player myself i do not think this is an issue at our club but, I'm not in charge

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I like what rogolf said. A significant key is staying within 100 yards of the overall course yardage for that 18 hole set of tees. This is in the Rules of Handicapping - Appendix G:

 

Rules of Handicapping (usga.org)

 

For an 18-hole golf course:

If approved by the Authorized Association, the issuance of a temporary Course Rating and Slope Rating is determined by the Handicap Committee and/or the Authorized Association following the procedure set out below:

  • Locate the nearest set of rated tees for the appropriate gender.
  • Determine the measured difference between the set of tees being played and the rated set of tees.
  • For differences under 100 yards (100 metres), no adjustment is necessary and scores can be submitted as usual; otherwise
  • For differences between 100 and 300 yards (100 and 274 metres), the below table can be used to determine the adjustments required and issue a temporary Course Rating and Slope Rating.

I am coming at this as a handicap committee chairman/member. The difference under the old system in 2019 was much less. Staying within 100 yards should be easy to do - and it will also give you some leeway to keep your members happy with different set-ups day to day. Just use your heads and get a plan together. 

 

The USGA did have a plan outlined in the old manual - it was Section 15-2 Balancing Placement of Tees. Not sure if you can find that online anywhere?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, mark m said:

I like what rogolf said. A significant key is staying within 100 yards of the overall course yardage for that 18 hole set of tees. This is in the Rules of Handicapping - Appendix G:

 

Rules of Handicapping (usga.org)

 

For an 18-hole golf course:

If approved by the Authorized Association, the issuance of a temporary Course Rating and Slope Rating is determined by the Handicap Committee and/or the Authorized Association following the procedure set out below:

  • Locate the nearest set of rated tees for the appropriate gender.
  • Determine the measured difference between the set of tees being played and the rated set of tees.
  • For differences under 100 yards (100 metres), no adjustment is necessary and scores can be submitted as usual; otherwise
  • For differences between 100 and 300 yards (100 and 274 metres), the below table can be used to determine the adjustments required and issue a temporary Course Rating and Slope Rating.

I am coming at this as a handicap committee chairman/member. The difference under the old system in 2019 was much less. Staying within 100 yards should be easy to do - and it will also give you some leeway to keep your members happy with different set-ups day to day. Just use your heads and get a plan together. 

 

The USGA did have a plan outlined in the old manual - it was Section 15-2 Balancing Placement of Tees. Not sure if you can find that online anywhere?

 

 

Recognizing that the 100 yard target is from the tee to the middle of the green, not tee to hole location.  When setting tees, just keep track of how many plus or minus yards you are from respective yardage marker, ignoring the hole locations (except on par threes as noted above).

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We have the same issue at my club. Tee boxes get worn out leaving the markers at about the scorecard yardage to middle. I did ask our super about moving them around but keeping the total yardage approximately the same. Laughed and said guys cutting tees could not handle that complexity. 
 Moving one tee up 10 yards and another two back 5 or however would be best for the course conditions.

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27 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

We have the same issue at my club. Tee boxes get worn out leaving the markers at about the scorecard yardage to middle. I did ask our super about moving them around but keeping the total yardage approximately the same. Laughed and said guys cutting tees could not handle that complexity. 
 Moving one tee up 10 yards and another two back 5 or however would be best for the course conditions.

Yes, I've also heard that before.  A simple "reliable method" worksheet should resolve it - plus or minus yards from the permanent marker, several days on each sheet so there is a brief history.

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Just a side question here...outside of the par 3s...how much would changing tee position change the actual playing of the holes for your course?  At my home course, changing the tees really doesnt do much outside the par 3's doesnt change much other than give the previous location healing time.  Then again we have small boxes that dont allow a lot of flexabilty. Some holes have dog legs and wider boxes where it changes the angles that bring  certain guardian trees in or out of play. As for a system...one day the front 9 gets moved to the front, the back 9 goes to the back positions. Next rotation is vice versa, then the next is back to the middle.

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1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Just a side question here...outside of the par 3s...how much would changing tee position change the actual playing of the holes for your course?  

 

We have a couple of holes where the difference between the "up" tees for the blues and the "back" tees for the blues can be more than 30 yards. Most are about 15 yards but we have a few very long tee boxes.

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Outside of moving markers to a different box the yardage flexibility is a couple hundred yards on the blue tees which are the biggest in terms of area. We still aren't really sure what the motivation is behind this request,  they say they feel like they play the same course everyday well if you play 3-4 days a week you do play the same course all the time. Another thing brought up by the better players is moving the black tees up off the tips more often, we are 7300 tipped out but most of the tips are 30-40 behind the blue tees and that would just kill the rating for that day. We for sure aren't adding a 6th marker to go between blue and black. We made and excel document to show them the variance that every hole has from front tee placement to back and are hoping to show them that they indeed do play a different yardage everyday.

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6 minutes ago, deadsolid...shank said:

Our super moves the tees with the cups. Back pin, front tee. Front pin, back tee. All the time. Our par threes play almost the same yardage all the time. If the wind didn’t blow I’d hit the same club on the par threes all year. 

That's what ours used to do until we brought it to his (and the GM's) attention several times, telling them how boring it was!

Poorly trained staff is not an acceptable excuse - upgrade the knowledge and training!

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4 minutes ago, rogolf said:

That's what ours used to do until we brought it to his (and the GM's) attention several times, telling them how boring it was!

Poorly trained staff is not an acceptable excuse - upgrade the knowledge and training!

I’ve talked about it with the head pro a couple of times. But he doesn’t seem to carry enough weight to make him change. 
 

It’s one of the dumbest things I’ve seen out there. Changing up the distances make the course so much more fun. 


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On e upon a time when I worked on the greens Crew at a private 36 hole club , we moved tee markers based on an even and odd deal. And alternating Weeks.  We used all available tee boxes. This course had 5 tees.  So the middle “ men’s tee might be on the middle box one week and then on the second to the front the next and maybe in the 2nd to the back the next.  
Even holes moved up and odd moved back 4 paces a day.  The next week they flip flopped and came the opposite direction.  
 

 

 

we also changed cups every single morning.  (Bent grass ) and used a clock method map to tell where to place them.  Which was published to the members. 
 

but you need a lot of tee real estate to do this.  My current home course doesn’t have as much tee space.  And we find that we Play the same spots a lot.  And they don’t move the tees to alternate boxes unless we gripe and or move them ourselves.  Yes we’ve done that too.  I’m on the competition committee and sometimes we just get frustrated and go setup for Saturday morning dogfight ourselves.  So I’ve been on both sides.  It’s a delicate balancing act. 

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12 hours ago, TMadigolf said:

Outside of moving markers to a different box the yardage flexibility is a couple hundred yards on the blue tees which are the biggest in terms of area. We still aren't really sure what the motivation is behind this request,  they say they feel like they play the same course everyday well if you play 3-4 days a week you do play the same course all the time. Another thing brought up by the better players is moving the black tees up off the tips more often, we are 7300 tipped out but most of the tips are 30-40 behind the blue tees and that would just kill the rating for that day. We for sure aren't adding a 6th marker to go between blue and black. We made and excel document to show them the variance that every hole has from front tee placement to back and are hoping to show them that they indeed do play a different yardage everyday.

This is a great example.  
 

im a back tee player most rounds most courses.  And 99 out of 100 courses have little thought to these tees.  They’ll be a small circular tee box out by itself most times.  Very little room to move markers.  
 

You are correct about the rating and moving them up to the next box.  But , I agree with the players on it making for a boring setup day in and out.    
 

the solution is that the back box either be connected to the next box , or that it be at least 15 yards long.  Especially on par 3s.  If you can’t adjust 2 club lengths in shot choice just on the tee box , it’s a very poor design.  Then add in a green where it’s 2 clubs different front to rear pin , and you have a 4 club swing.  That’s how you design a golf hole.  my home course has a par 3 that plays 224 from the tip of the back box with the pin back right.  If you move the markers to the front of the box it’s 214.  For me that’s same club without wind help or hurt.  I’m just hitting one hard and the other I’m holding off. It’s so boring you don’t even get a yardage most times.  Just front or back pin and pull club.  
 

so you’re not wrong in a way. But they aren’t either.  
 

 

Edited by bladehunter

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