MGA Question 1

[Newby]

1. In a stroke play competition, a player hits a tee shot on a Par 4 into an area of high grass. Immediately following the stroke, the Committee signals the stoppage of play due to dangerous conditions. The player proceeds forward to search for the ball to ensure the location is not forgotten following the delay. The ball is located after a two-minute search in a lie surrounded by thick grass. The player chooses to take relief for an unplayable ball and correctly drops into the relief area within two club-lengths of the location of the ball. The player then marks, lifts the ball, and proceeds to shelter for the duration of the delay. Before replacing the ball for the resumption of play the player notices the lie is covered in leaves and sticks that were not present when the ball was originally marked and lifted. The player removes these loose impediments, replaces the ball, and takes 3 more strokes to complete the hole.

What is the player’s score?

A. 5

B. 6

C. 7

D. The player is disqualified for ignoring the suspension of play by searching for and dropping the ball.

[antip]

A.5

[cthetree]

A!

[Bushwood Country Club]

I am going with A, but wonder about the "dropping" the ball occurring during the suspension of play.  I would think the seacrh and finding are ok, but not sure about the rest of the players actions.

[DavePelz4]

A.

[Halebopp]

A. 5

[Mr. Bean]

Interesting.

 

So searching for and dropping a ball after immediate suspension does not conflict this principle:

 

'Under Rule 5.7b(1), if the Committee declares an immediate suspension of play, all players must stop play at once. The intent of this suspension is to enable the course to be cleared as quickly as possible when a potentially dangerous situation, such as lightning, exists.'

Edited February 17, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[rogolf]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

Interesting.

 

So searching for and dropping a ball after immediate suspension does not conflict this principle:

 

'Under Rule 5.7b(1), if the Committee declares an immediate suspension of play, all players must stop play at once. The intent of this suspension is to enable the course to be cleared as quickly as possible when a potentially dangerous situation, such as lightning, exists.'

Read Interpretation 5.7b/1.

[sui generis]

28 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Read Interpretation 5.7b/1.

 

Elementary, my dear Watson. 😉

[Mr. Bean]

11 hours ago, rogolf said:

Read Interpretation 5.7b/1.

 

Yes, I read it and that is why I wrote my question. After all, if players must be taken off the course as quickly as possible it takes much less time to take a stance and hit the ball than searching for a ball for 2 minutes, lifting it and dropping it, and yet the former is not allowed and the latter is?

 

Or what do you think?

[Mr. Bean]

11 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

Elementary, my dear Watson. 😉

 

There's hardly anything elementary in MGA questions 😆

[rogolf]

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Yes, I read it and that is why I wrote my question. After all, if players must be taken off the course as quickly as possible it takes much less time to take a stance and hit the ball than searching for a ball for 2 minutes, lifting it and dropping it, and yet the former is not allowed and the latter is?

 

Or what do you think?

I think that we don't write the Rules here, just try to understand and follow them as written and interpreted.

[Mr. Bean]

I just keep wondering why it should be allowed to stay on the course for one reason but not for another.

 

Scenario: I hit my 2nd shot on a par5 from 220 meters from the green and I miss the green badly, my ball ends up in long grass left of green. This very moment the Committee sounds immediate discontinuation of play. I pay no heed but start walking towards the area where my ball should be, search for it for 3 minutes with no success, and start walking back to the spot from where I hit by 2nd stroke. When I reach the spot I drop a ball and only then I head for shelter.

 

All good and no penalty?

Edited February 18, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, rogolf said:

I think that we don't write the Rules here, just try to understand and follow them as written and interpreted.

 Your answer makes me wonder if you actually try to understand.

[rogolf]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 Your answer makes me wonder if you actually try to understand.

Perhaps I do understand where, when, how and to whom it is appropriate to question the written Rules and those that have written them. (and, imo, it's not in the midst of a discussion about a multiple choice question on the Rules)

Edited February 18, 2021 by rogolf

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, rogolf said:

Perhaps I do understand where, when, how and to whom it is appropriate to question the written Rules and those that have written them. (and, imo, it's not in the midst of a discussion about a multiple choice question on the Rules)

 

Sorry, I thought this is just the forum to do it as the issue has been raised with this particular MGA quiz question.

 

If the answer is as forward as many have indicated then it is but the Interpretation only deals with dropping and not searching for a ball, so I just thought there could be more to the question than just finding an appropriate Rule or an Interpretation. From the past one could imagine that these questions tend to raise more questions instead of simply asking for an existing explicit text.

 

No problem, this discussion will continue elsewhere.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[Colin L]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

I just keep wondering why it should be allowed to stay on the course for one reason but not for another.

 

Scenario: I hit my 2nd shot on a par5 from 220 meters from the green and I miss the green badly, my ball ends up in long grass left of green. This very moment the Committee sounds immediate discontinuation of play. I pay no heed but start walking towards the area where my ball should be, search for it for 3 minutes with no success, and start walking back to the spot from where I hit by 2nd stroke. When I reach the spot I drop a ball and only then I head for shelter.

 

All good and no penalty?

All good and no penalty.  5.7 to me is a permissive rule.  It allows players to stop playing when conditions make it too difficult or too dangerous to play but a rule like this needs a a clear and unarguable cut-off point.  Making your next stroke or holing out on the hole you are playing when the signal sounds are precise and identifiable end points which ensure consistency throughout the field in terms of the game.  If a player chooses to take time to search, drop a ball, commune with nature or  stay on the course surrounded by lightning strikes that's his or her choice.  

[Mr. Bean]

30 minutes ago, Colin L said:

All good and no penalty.  5.7 to me is a permissive rule.  It allows players to stop playing when conditions make it too difficult or too dangerous to play but a rule like this needs a a clear and unarguable cut-off point.  Making your next stroke or holing out on the hole you are playing when the signal sounds are precise and identifiable end points which ensure consistency throughout the field in terms of the game.  If a player chooses to take time to search, drop a ball, commune with nature or  stay on the course surrounded by lightning strikes that's his or her choice.  

 

Thank you for your comment, Colin.

 

My original point was the safety of the players and that safety is IMO only achieved by getting the players off the course as quickly as possible. Thus I find it odd if a player is allowed to wander around the course doing this and that as long as he is not making a stroke as the safety is not achieved.

 

'If a player chooses to take time to search, drop a ball, commune with nature or  stay on the course surrounded by lightning strikes that's his or her choice.  '

 

I find that argument rather bizarre. After all, making multiple strokes in a thunder storm is also player's choice but it is the responsibility of the Committee to make sure the competitors are safe and to me the logical thing to ensure that is to get the players off the course and not to allow any time-consuming things to be performed.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Mr. Bean

[Newby]

The committee is only responsible for players' actions or inaction whilst play is still in progress. Play has stopped.

[sui generis]

33 minutes ago, Newby said:

The committee is only responsible for players' actions or inaction whilst play is still in progress. Play has stopped.

 

Nice try, but Mr Bean can argue with ten people at once. 🙄

[Colin L]

11 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Thank you for your comment, Colin.

 

My original point was the safety of the players and that safety is IMO only achieved by getting the players off the course as quickly as possible. Thus I find it odd if a player is allowed to wander around the course doing this and that as long as he is not making a stroke as the safety is not achieved.

 

'If a player chooses to take time to search, drop a ball, commune with nature or  stay on the course surrounded by lightning strikes that's his or her choice.  '

 

I find that argument rather bizarre. After all, making multiple strokes in a thunder storm is also player's choice but it is the responsibility of the Committee to make sure the competitors are safe and to me the logical thing to ensure that is to get the players off the course and not to allow any time-consuming things to be performed.

I think you are confusing the "responsibility" of the rules of golf and the responsibilities of a club, the course owner, the tournament organiser.   The rules go no further than to regulate the game of golf, in this instance by permitting  players to stop play because of adverse conditions.  They provide a clear, unarguable point at which the individual must stop playing so that no-one gains any potential advantage by playing on beyond that point.   The rules have no interest beyond that.  They enable player safety but have no role in determining how player safety is then organised and enforced.  That is a health & safety responsibility of the club or tournament organiser.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Colin L

[TerpFangolfer]

Had missed that MGA came out this week...I actually was in one of the USGA/PGA virtual seminars this past week. Too bad, I could have asked them about some of these...haha. 

But yes, I got A as well.

[Newby]

#1 A Interpretation 5.7b/1, Interpretation 5.7d(1)/2, Rule 19.2c, Def. Lie