Why do I always hear that Pros hate a left miss

[Krt22]

1 minute ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

This thread is why pros prefer a right miss. High index players don't belong in this discussion. I'm making a point that a long left miss is in general is much more difficult to recover from for a Professional golfer. 

Just because some pros dont like to see the ball go left, doesn't mean a wipey short right miss is universally better, period. Short right can be just as bad (or worse) in many scenarios, it doesn't matter if it's a pro or an am, the level of difficulty remains the same.  No pro wants to intentionally leave themselves a short sided shot, and the notion that short right means the next shot is uphill is also false, since many bunker lips run away from the player.

 

If short right was the statistically significant preferred miss, every player on tour would play a fade exclusively, and they simply do not. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

8 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Just because some pros dont like to see the ball go left, doesn't mean a wipey short right miss is universally better, period. Short right can be just as bad (or worse) in many scenarios, it doesn't matter if it's a pro or an am, the level of difficulty remains the same.  No pro wants to intentionally leave themselves a short sided shot, and the notion that short right means the next shot is uphill is also false, since many bunker lips run away from the player.

 

If short right was the statistically significant preferred miss, every player on tour would play a fade exclusively, and they simply do not. 

What part of "In general" aren't you getting? There's nothing mythical that most greens have a back to front slope to them. For instance, every hole at Augusta has a back to front slope with maybe hole 11 being an exception since it slopes to the pond. Now if they cut every pin on the far right you'd run into problems. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

16 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Just because some pros dont like to see the ball go left, doesn't mean a wipey short right miss is universally better, period. Short right can be just as bad (or worse) in many scenarios, it doesn't matter if it's a pro or an am, the level of difficulty remains the same.  No pro wants to intentionally leave themselves a short sided shot, and the notion that short right means the next shot is uphill is also false, since many bunker lips run away from the player.

 

If short right was the statistically significant preferred miss, every player on tour would play a fade exclusively, and they simply do not. 

I apologize about my Olympia Fields comment. That was uncalled for. 

[b.mattay]

39 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Ok. Put 10 balls long and left of a green that has a back to front slope. Then put 10 balls a bit short and right. I'd bet you'd get up and down a lot more from short and right.

Again, super context dependent. If the green slopes right to left as well as back to front, long left may be easier. 
 

More importantly, there will be a long left and short right miss regardless of of whether a fade or draw is played. Both have a straight ball and an overcook as a miss. 
 

Also, not every player hates a left miss. Hideki prefers missing left over right (look at his WITB, explained). Guarantee he isn't the only one. Monte also mentioned he hates a right miss. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by b.mattay

[Krt22]

Just now, tthomasgolfer605 said:

What part of "In general" aren't you getting? There's nothing mythical that most greens have a back to front slope to them. For instance, every hole at Augusta has a back to front slope with maybe hole 11 being an exception since it slopes to the pond. Now if they cut every pin on the far right you'd run into problems. 

Because it is not "in general", especially when your entire argument is based on anecdotal evidence. Front to back slope does not warrant an intentional short right miss, a longer uphill putt is not easier to make than a shorter downhill one. Calling out a handful of courses with sloppy greens does not make it a valid point, "in general". Augusta also has a bunch of false fronts, where a short right miss rolls into the water or rolls 30-40 yards downhill. Broadie and Fawcett have a ton of statistics on the subject, golfers no longer need to rely on anecdotes and range myths.

[tthomasgolfer605]

What courses did I say had sloppy greens?

[DaveMc82]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I said in 'general'. There's always exceptions. A better miss is when you have an uphill chip, pitch, greenside bunker shot that's moving right to left. The roll out is more predictable. 

It applies mostly in the USA and places with course design derived from US layouts. It’s very generic and formulaic vs the unique designs you see elsewhere.
 

The beauty of holes with nasty trouble short right and flipping front to back means you either come in moving it towards the trouble with a fade or moving it off the trouble with a draw. it negates the bombers approach to an extent with the rough getting progressively thicker the longer you get off the tee as you lose control coming in. 
 

Even when some ET pros come to my soon to be home they rarely come in better than 67-68. It’s hard, penal and not that long at sub 6800 yards. Fortunately it’s not crowd or tv friendly and would never host a big event.
 

It’s the opposite of Manning’s Heath Waterfall which gets destroyed by the Europro guys. it doesn’t help they remove some of the OB and set it up to be attacked when it can play so much tougher. 

[Krt22]

6 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

What courses did I say had sloppy greens?

You are insufferable. Replace sloppy with sloped, but you are still going to ignore the rest of everyone's points like you always do. Your entire misguided idea is based on the notion that most greens slope front to back, and you used a few anecdotal data points where that slope may be more extreme.

 

It's pretty wild you are a +5, playing with a steel shafted driver and a 360cc head,  given your game appears to be based on many myths that have largely been proven false. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

8 minutes ago, DaveMc82 said:

2 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

You are insufferable. Replace sloppy with sloped, but you are still going to ignore the rest of everyone's points like you always do. Your entire misguided idea is based on the notion that most greens slope front to back, and you used a few anecdotal data points where that slope may be more extreme.

 

It's pretty wild you are a +5, playing with a steel shafted driver and a 360cc head,  given your game appears to be based on many myths that have largely been proven false. 

 

My game is based on taking a look at the shot. What trajectory do I want. Should I move it right to left or left to right. What club will get me where I need to be. That's why I'm a plus 5. What myths are you referring to? That I play golf with my hands/eyes and brain? 

[golfsticks]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Ok. Put 10 balls long and left of a green that has a back to front slope. Then put 10 balls a bit short and right. I'd bet you'd get up and down a lot more from short and right.

 

I wouldn't fret any, some are moving goalposts to support their point.  However, on your 'generally speaking' proposal to an easy middle pin I couldn't get the cash out of my pocket quick enough to wager against the down hill left to right attempt.   But let's make it fun, wedges are a convenience, let's use a 5 iron.

[tthomasgolfer605]

23 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

 

 

It's pretty wild you are a +5, playing with a steel shafted driver and a 360cc head. 

I didn't know that a bigger head and graphite shaft was required to get the ball in the hole. BTW, Monte uses a smaller headed driver because he early extends with a 460cc. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

8 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

 

I wouldn't fret any, some are moving goalposts to support their point.  However, on your 'generally speaking' proposal to an easy middle pin I couldn't get the cash out of my pocket quick enough to wager against the down hill left to right attempt.   But let's make it fun, wedges are a convenience, let's use a 5 iron.

I'm not fretting. I'm laughing at the illogical comments. They're speaking as if every pin is cut on the extreme right of the green and the rare occasion the green slopes front to back. Yes. A great short game drill is using all different clubs and attempting to get it close or knock it in. You'll learn more in 10 mins than you would in 10 years just grabbing a wedge for every shot around the green. 

[GoTime]

Most good players hit from the inside and it's difficult to hit a slice from there. Very easy to hit a hook from the same slot.

Edited February 18, 2021 by GoTime

[Zitlow]

1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

unless you tend blow your chip past the hole 😛

 

Okay Mr. Smartypants. 🙄

[golfsticks]

6 minutes ago, GoTime said:

Most good players hit from the inside and it's difficult to hit a slice from there. Very easy to hit a hook from the same slot.

 

Good players, especially professionals,  can hit slices from the inside if they choose.  Not hard at all.

[GolfTurkey]

1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

It's pretty wild you are a +5, playing with a steel shafted driver and a 360cc head,  given your game appears to be based on many myths that have largely been proven false. 

 

Almost sounds like you're talking about Faldo

[Barfolomew]

Wow the thread I started is way more boring then the passion in this thread....

 

I would say missing left vs right is reference to the swing and not the course....

 

If all courses were dangerous down the right side I would STILL play the power fade off the tee!  Playing towards the body cutting the ball is easier then away from body drawing the ball... jus sayin I can swing out of my shoes and control it better fading then a buttery draw attempt.... I know I shouldn't suck lol

 

Story time: Played in a tourney at Los Serranos golf course in Chino Hills in Cali (south course longest course in Cali I think) in October before I blew out my Achilles skateboarding and 2nd hole is a par 5 dog leg left with a HUGE net on the left forcing the dog leg..... oh ya is that right I teed it up real high and blasted a moon shot fade over the net it cleared by a foot lol but made the fairway.... group cracked up

 

missing left is a reference to the swing

 

 

 

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 hour ago, Barfolomew said:

Wow the thread I started is way more boring then the passion in this thread....

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can blame me for that. All I stated that it was for the most part it's easier to get up and down from short and right by a green rather than long and left and got my head bit off. 

[b.mattay]

6 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

You can blame me for that. All I stated that it was for the most part it's easier to get up and down from short and right by a green rather than long and left and got my head bit off. 

 

Let's say that most greens are back to front with no front bunkers...then you are correct. I think the more pressing question is how does a fade make you more likely to miss short right? That miss is equally likely regardless of shot shape. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

8 minutes ago, b.mattay said:

 

Let's say that most greens are back to front with no front bunkers...then you are correct. I think the more pressing question is how does a fade make you more likely to miss short right? That miss is equally likely regardless of shot shape. 

That's a good question. Pros with a fade bias tend to miss toward the heel which cuts down on distance a bit and makes it cut more. Miss left with a pull or over draw and it usually goes farther resulting in a much tougher shot. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by tthomasgolfer605
Spelling

[pinhigh27]

Disagree . Left path favors toe side contact. People who draw it favor heel. Hence why hacks who slice it don’t really shank it. 
 

just like how you tend to hit it low on face when you swing up. It’s the direction the club is moving at impact 

 

faders missing right would be bc they got face too open or swung too far left . Yes they can heel it but tendency will be toe side 

[tthomasgolfer605]

22 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

Disagree . Left path favors toe side contact. People who draw it favor heel. Hence why hacks who slice it don’t really shank it. 
 

just like how you tend to hit it low on face when you swing up. It’s the direction the club is moving at impact 

 

faders missing right would be bc they got face too open or swung too far left . Yes they can heel it but tendency will be toe side 

Trackman data shows otherwise.  We're talking pro tendencies. 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

34 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

That's a good question. Pros with a fade bias tend to miss toward the heel which cuts down on distance a bit and makes it cut more. Miss left with a pull or over draw and it usually goes farther resulting in a much tougher shot. 

Left miss, short or long, does not necessitate a harder next shot by default.  Draw or fade, nobody that Ive played with really plans to have a shot to miss behind their back . Ive played with guys that play big ol'banana slices that start the ball so far left by hooding the club so at address the face of their driver is literally pointing at the ground. They arent planning for that ball to finish left, even if they started it over the next fairway over.  When I played a draw more, I had the visualization of setting a wall with my shoulders that that ball was not going to pass.

[pinhigh27]

11 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Trackman data shows otherwise.  We're talking pro tendencies. 

 

What? That’s not what it’s showing at all. That’s showing how spin axis is affected by off center strikes, it has nothing to do with tendencies for given paths. 
 

think about it vertically bc that’s generally easier.  Do people who swing up tend to hit it high or low or the face ? Who pops the ball up? Really steep people. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

3 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Left miss, short or long, does not necessitate a harder next shot by default.  Draw or fade, nobody that Ive played with really plans to have a shot to miss behind their back . Ive played with guys that play big ol'banana slices that start the ball so far left by hooding the club so at address the face of their driver is literally pointing at the ground. They arent planning for that ball to finish left, even if they started it over the next fairway over.  When I played a draw more, I had the visualization of setting a wall with my shoulders that that ball was not going to pass.

This thread is about why Professional golfers prefer a right miss. It's not just about the tee shot. Into most greens they play on tour, they know a left miss=a tougher proposition to get up and down. The tendency is long and left though because the ball will go farther.

[tthomasgolfer605]

3 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

What? That’s not what it’s showing at all. That’s showing how spin axis is affected by off center strikes, it has nothing to do with tendencies for given paths. 
 

think about it vertically bc that’s generally easier.  Do people who swing up tend to hit it high or low or the face ? Who pops the ball up? Really steep people. 

This thread is about people who play golf for a living, not hacks.

[pinhigh27]

They don’t prefer a right miss. Go look at the left right miss distribution for tour players. There is essentially no one who significantly misses left or right more commonly. 
 

also favoring a draw vs a fade is not the same thing as favoring a left or right miss. 

[A.Princey]

I think it just boils down to most better golfers having a tendency to hook the ball vs slice. I mean, a really wipey swing just doesn't exist on tour, and coming from the inside as most pros do, will either promote a right block, draw, or a closed face hook. Pro tendencies here people, that is the key metric, not Joe Blow in his weekend foursome.

[pinhigh27]

Just now, tthomasgolfer605 said:

This thread is about people who play golf for a living, not hacks.

Again you’re talking nonsense. Elite players who swing up will tend to hit it low on the face. People who swing down will tend to hit it high on the face. These things happen regardless of skill level. It’s how tour players swing -3 on a driver and have acceptable launch stats. They’re hitting it high on the face and using vertical gear effect to their advantage. 
 

the same thing happens horizontally. 

[airjammer]

At my the course I play most often the right miss is the most punished. I prefer to play a draw and any ball that doesn’t draw for me was never struck well so I despise the right miss. 

 

I’d be curious if the pros would prefer the right miss if the tour bunkers actually plugged like they should on iron shots?  It ridiculous how easy they make the bunkers especially for the pga tour. All balls hit into the bunkers shouldn’t roll to the bottom flat spot.