The Stack System

[milesgiles]

23 minutes ago, Forged4life said:

People have shown many things. Not their fault you won’t believe it or read it. Im faster than when I started so that’s a fact. On the contrary please show me a gym trainer that will give me a specific swing speed protocol, especially since you don’t think it works. Kind of doesn’t make sense with that comment.

 

if you’re not into it cool, move along with your holier than thou comments and let other people share their stories. No one needs your approval (seriously lol) Thanks 

 

I was trying to compare a cookie cutter fitness routine a pt would give someone to this app, not from a golf perspective.

 

Yes its a fact that you and others gained speed.. but did any of you try to gain speed with a driver or any other club first? ie plenty of fast swings a few times a week with a club rather than a stick?

 

If you had, and it didnt work, I would consider that evidence. Otherwise you are confusing correlation with causation.

[puresurfr]

15 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

I was trying to compare a cookie cutter fitness routine a pt would give someone to this app, not from a golf perspective.

 

Yes its a fact that you and others gained speed.. but did any of you try to gain speed with a driver or any other club first? ie plenty of fast swings a few times a week with a club rather than a stick?

 

If you had, and it didnt work, I would consider that evidence. Otherwise you are confusing correlation with causation.

 

the Stack app is actually not a cookie cutter routine, it adjusts workouts and weights and reps and sets and rest based on your results....if u are not improving or going backwards, it makes adjustments accordingly.  if u are suffering at heavy weights but blazing fast with light weights, it adjusts your workouts accordingly.   And it is more convenient and relatively inexpensive compared to a trainer.  

[Forged4life]

1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

I was trying to compare a cookie cutter fitness routine a pt would give someone to this app, not from a golf perspective.

 

Yes its a fact that you and others gained speed.. but did any of you try to gain speed with a driver or any other club first? ie plenty of fast swings a few times a week with a club rather than a stick?

 

If you had, and it didnt work, I would consider that evidence. Otherwise you are confusing correlation with causation.

 I is talking about a fitness routine it’s specific golf so nice backtrack from your false equivalence. You are confusing opinion with knowledge when actually it’s ignorance since you have never used the stack or the app. You have zero experience yet are spouting as you know it all. It’s sad actually. I have done a program previously just swinging driver and didn’t work as well. Oh no, what else am I confusing here, please tell me 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Forged4life

[milesgiles]

6 hours ago, Forged4life said:

 I is talking about a fitness routine it’s specific golf so nice backtrack from your false equivalence. You are confusing opinion with knowledge when actually it’s ignorance since you have never used the stack or the app. You have zero experience yet are spouting as you know it all. It’s sad actually. I have done a program previously just swinging driver and didn’t work as well. Oh no, what else am I confusing here, please tell me 

 

no backtrack, I wasnt talking about golf and didnt mention it in the pt example. 

 

I made it clear I havent used any stick or app. That wasnt my argument. All I have ever said is that if there was anything to 'overspeed' training, in any sport, someone somewhere would have done a scientific study and shown a statistically significant result. Im sorry you find that controversial.

 

What were your results from swinging a driver? how many reps over how many weeks? That at least would be evidence I would listen to assess on its own merits.

[phillyspecial]

I started it a few weeks ago after doing SuperSpeed in spurts the past few years.  I love the Stack, the app is a total gamechanger.  Im sure the competition will adapt and bring an app as well, but it makes all the difference.  Its more motivating to keep on schedule, and its more productive given mandatory rest and the AI adjusted workouts based on results.  

 

Im up 3mph with my driver after 11 sessions, and the Driver espeed has carried over exactly to what I get on my trackman.  

[khalespace]

On 11/29/2021 at 11:11 PM, milesgiles said:

 

no backtrack, I wasnt talking about golf and didnt mention it in the pt example. 

 

I made it clear I havent used any stick or app. That wasnt my argument. All I have ever said is that if there was anything to 'overspeed' training, in any sport, someone somewhere would have done a scientific study and shown a statistically significant result. Im sorry you find that controversial.

 

What were your results from swinging a driver? how many reps over how many weeks? That at least would be evidence I would listen to assess on its own merits.

I don't know why you keep doubting the results of overspeed training and keep asking for that "statistically significant" study which no one will spend money to perform. Most people who experimented with various overspeed programs in this forum or on YouTube have seen a speed gain. For me, that is enough evidence. It is possible that the available training protocols are not optimized but with too many golfers with very different abilities and physical strengths make it impossible to have a perfect overspeed training protocol. No one will spend money to come up with a "statistically significant" DOE on overspeed training.

[milesgiles]

4 minutes ago, khalespace said:

I don't know why you keep doubting the results of overspeed training and keep asking for that "statistically significant" study which no one will spend money to perform. Most people who experimented with various overspeed programs in this forum or on YouTube have seen a speed gain. For me, that is enough evidence. It is possible that the available training protocols are not optimized but with too many golfers with very different abilities and physical strengths make it impossible to have a perfect overspeed training protocol. No one will spend money to come up with a "statistically significant" DOE on overspeed training.

 

you only have evidence if you have a control group. Thats how scientific studies work.

[Forged4life]

3 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

you only have evidence if you have a control group. Thats how scientific studies work.

Cool. No one cares but you. So time to move on 

[Yrrdead]

4 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

you only have evidence if you have a control group. Thats how scientific studies work.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=pubmed+speed+training+golf

[CasualLie]

26 minutes ago, Yrrdead said:

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=pubmed+speed+training+golf

 

That's brilliant!  First time I saw that.  Thanks!

[Yrrdead]

Its a little snarky but not too rude I hope. 🙂

 

[Forged4life]

Just now, Yrrdead said:

Its a little snarky but not too rude I hope. 🙂

 

Not any ruder (?) than hijacking a thread 

[GolfTurkey]

4 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

you only have evidence if you have a control group. Thats how scientific studies work.

 

Each person's "before" speed is the control group.

[CasualLie]

What I am wondering is how long will the new found speed last?  I don't need a "study" to understand the benefits.  Dr. Sasho is a smart dude and I cannot recall anything he has studied / shared that was bad for golfers.

 

But it seems to me you go through the program, say 8 weeks, and let's say you gain 8 mph.  Great!  But won't you have to keep doing the program at least with some regularity forever! to keep the 8 mph?  This is what has me on the fence.  I am pretty lazy about this stuff.  I am the kind of person who will drop $4K on a tonal no problem, but I expect my muscles to get bigger just from installing it and occasionally catching a glimpse of myself in the mirror 😉

 

 

 

 

[tomba51]

1 minute ago, CasualLie said:

What I am wondering is how long will the new found speed last?  I don't need a "study" to understand the benefits.  Dr. Sasho is a smart dude and I cannot recall anything he has studied / shared that was bad for golfers.

 

But it seems to me you go through the program, say 8 weeks, and let's say you gain 8 mph.  Great!  But won't you have to keep doing the program at least with some regularity forever! to keep the 8 mph?  This is what has me on the fence.  I am pretty lazy about this stuff.  I am the kind of person who will drop $4K on a tonal no problem, but I expect my muscles to get bigger just from installing it and occasionally catching a glimpse of myself in the mirror 😉

 

 

 

 

Well of course you have to keep doing some kind of maintenance program. Think of it this way, if you trained enough to run a four minute mile, and then you stopped training for a year, you certainly wouldn't be able to run a four minute mile anymore. Or if you trained yourself to benchpress 300 pounds and then laid off for a year, well, you get the idea.

[GolfTurkey]

12 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

What I am wondering is how long will the new found speed last?  I don't need a "study" to understand the benefits.  Dr. Sasho is a smart dude and I cannot recall anything he has studied / shared that was bad for golfers.

 

But it seems to me you go through the program, say 8 weeks, and let's say you gain 8 mph.  Great!  But won't you have to keep doing the program at least with some regularity forever! to keep the 8 mph?  This is what has me on the fence.  I am pretty lazy about this stuff.  I am the kind of person who will drop $4K on a tonal no problem, but I expect my muscles to get bigger just from installing it and occasionally catching a glimpse of myself in the mirror 😉

 

 

 

 

 

There was a Q&A with him where he says if you do nothing you will probably lose your gains entirely over about a 3 month period.

 

He also mentioned that there is a maintenance program with far fewer reps that is geared towards maintaining speed gains as opposed to gaining more speed.

[puresurfr]

this chart seems to imply that the gains are permanent if u keep them up for some time.......I believe if u start at 100 mph and u work for 18 months to achieve 120 mph , u will lose some of it if u  dont maintain a fitness program with some speed work but I doubt u lose all of it ??? 

As a comparison if u benched 135 and then bulked up to benching 315, a year later without lifting, im sure u will still put up much more than 135....maybe 245 ???  and if u already have the muscle memory of benching 315, it won't take u that long to get back there.

Edited December 2, 2021 by puresurfr

[puresurfr]

According to the SuperSpeed chart, it takes about 1-1.5 years to gain 4mph ( 105 to 109 )

[Forged4life]

Just saw in the new golf digest (Danielle Kang cover) Chris como holding the stack and the caption says it’s a swing trainer with removable weights AND a computer chip? I do t think there’s a computer chip in the stick? 

[Myherobobhope]

3 hours ago, Forged4life said:

Just saw in the new golf digest (Danielle Kang cover) Chris como holding the stack and the caption says it’s a swing trainer with removable weights AND a computer chip? I do t think there’s a computer chip in the stick? 

Nothing electronic in the stack. 
 

just a stick and some weights. 
 

im still liking it, but I do get the argument it’s not better than just swinging hard with a driver…  I think the under and over speed training makes sense, but who knows?

 

my guess is the large gains could be made without a program and just specific effort (basically the get rid of the governor phase) but the program itself helps you build speed past what you’d normally do with just swinging hard.

[Myherobobhope]

On 11/29/2021 at 6:16 PM, milesgiles said:

 

I was trying to compare a cookie cutter fitness routine a pt would give someone to this app, not from a golf perspective.

 

Yes its a fact that you and others gained speed.. but did any of you try to gain speed with a driver or any other club first? ie plenty of fast swings a few times a week with a club rather than a stick?

 

If you had, and it didnt work, I would consider that evidence. Otherwise you are confusing correlation with causation.

Sasho didn't give me the study, but says he has tested it (quick twitter conversation, I don't know Sasho, just harass him online). He claims he's done it baseline with just swinging driver (no overload and underload), and it's about 50% as effective over a 6 week program. (and even less effective if you do it while hitting a ball, even with underload and overload).

 

I think the majority of players would do well ending 1-2 range sessions a week swinging all out with driver (with a swing speed radar and no ball), and trying to get faster...

 

I think if you are really CHASING GAINS, it makes sense to have a regimented system that tells you what to do and when... From what I've seen, Stack / Sasho have actually done the research on this stuff and have built a smarter system (and people I've known who have plateaued with speed sticks have made gains with Stack).

 

Doing ANYTHING towards building speed is better than building nothing, but I trust Sasho has built a program he believes in... (I've fully drank the Sasho kool aid, though... I moved to heads up putting and pay attention to what shoes I golf in now)

[Forged4life]

3 hours ago, Myherobobhope said:

Sasho didn't give me the study, but says he has tested it (quick twitter conversation, I don't know Sasho, just harass him online). He claims he's done it baseline with just swinging driver (no overload and underload), and it's about 50% as effective over a 6 week program. (and even less effective if you do it while hitting a ball, even with underload and overload).

 

I think the majority of players would do well ending 1-2 range sessions a week swinging all out with driver (with a swing speed radar and no ball), and trying to get faster...

 

I think if you are really CHASING GAINS, it makes sense to have a regimented system that tells you what to do and when... From what I've seen, Stack / Sasho have actually done the research on this stuff and have built a smarter system (and people I've known who have plateaued with speed sticks have made gains with Stack).

 

Doing ANYTHING towards building speed is better than building nothing, but I trust Sasho has built a program he believes in... (I've fully drank the Sasho kool aid, though... I moved to heads up putting and pay attention to what shoes I golf in now)

Please don’t bring him back into the thread. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Forged4life

[Myherobobhope]

2 hours ago, Forged4life said:

Please don’t bring him back into the thread. 

Haha... 

 

Honestly, I think there is an interesting conversation to be had of: Do I need to spend $350 on a speed training system... 

 

I am convinced that having access to your swing speed data is important, and investing in a radar makes a ton of sense overall (if you are at all curious about your swing speed / launch conditions).

 

I also wonder if a majority of people would be better off just taking some practice swings with their driver at the end of a range session, seeing how big of a number they can get and then trying to improve it the next time.

 

I trust Sasho 100% and I am invested in his program (I own one, I use it, I love it) but I am also aware that I'm a crazy person who loves golfs and if I'm going to do a speed training, I'm willing to invest resources to do so. I trust Sasho on Underspeed and Overspeed training, but I'm willing to put those claims under scrutiny. It's an interesting question, and one I think we are just starting to really explore.

 

How do you gain speed in golf? Is there a better way? A different way? A cheaper way? What do you have to do to KEEP those speed gains? 

 

It's interesting how we all default to certain speeds... I was cruising around 115mph before I started speed training. I'm curious to see what I can get up to!

[er1cchandler]

I think there have been some interesting points here, and for the purists, there probably is an optimal peer-reviewed way to prove that over speed training does offer a tangible benefit over simpler methods. 
 

For some people, the product/cost is a commitment to a process. The training program and log is a form of accountability and a reference tool, along with the psychological benefits of motivation and confidence. To each their own. 
 

I'm looking forward to giving it a try in the new year. My current SS is in the 112 area but I know I can swing faster when called upon. I’m hopeful that a program helps me break the plateau for my on-course swing speed. 
 

all this to say, are we expecting a Boxing Day sale of any type?

[Forged4life]

12 hours ago, er1cchandler said:

I think there have been some interesting points here, and for the purists, there probably is an optimal peer-reviewed way to prove that over speed training does offer a tangible benefit over simpler methods. 
 

For some people, the product/cost is a commitment to a process. The training program and log is a form of accountability and a reference tool, along with the psychological benefits of motivation and confidence. To each their own. 
 

I'm looking forward to giving it a try in the new year. My current SS is in the 112 area but I know I can swing faster when called upon. I’m hopeful that a program helps me break the plateau for my on-course swing speed. 
 

all this to say, are we expecting a Boxing Day sale of any type?

Considering it’s an American company I doubt they even know what Boxing Day is….

[Myherobobhope]

13 hours ago, Forged4life said:

Considering it’s an American company I doubt they even know what Boxing Day is….

Um… Sasho Mackenzie is Canadian.

[Nels55]

[Forged4life]

6 hours ago, Myherobobhope said:

Um… Sasho Mackenzie is Canadian.

Ummm….Chris como isn’t.

[Myherobobhope]

On 12/27/2021 at 4:41 PM, Forged4life said:

Ummm….Chris como isn’t.

It’s Marty Jensen and Sasho macKenzie who own it, I believe. 
 

i know it’s Sasho’s brainchild… 

[puresurfr]

ok, this is getting a bit frustrating, but I finished the Foundation and now im about 8 sessions into the Speed Spectrum.  I estimate that after 30 sessions of speed training I have lost 2-3mph of club head speed at 195g

 

I have gained speeds at all the other weights but the darn 195g just kills me, it could be because there are a ton of swings and the 195g is always last to do or it may be because it is cold and wet outside.....no idea...but after I finish this full speed spectrum, im gonna go back to rypstick.