Hzrdus Yellow Upgrade?

[Bakes0]

Looking to move on from my Hzrdus yellow 5.5 63 gram shaft paired with 10.5 Ping G400 Max head but don’t want to stray too far away. It’s solid for me but it feels harsh at times and I’ve gotta really go after it to get the most out of it. It’s an absolute fairway finder but I feel like I’m leaving some yards on the table with how low it launches.

 

I like the counterbalanced feel, so hoping whatever I move into has some CB. I’m also looking to cut an inch down, I play the hzrdus at 45.5 but feel like my low ball speed is caused by me rarely catching the middle of the face. My swing speed is normally around 105-107 so the high 140 ball speed is concerning.

 

Anyone have any suggestions on a comparable shaft that launches a touch higher but can keep my spin down where it is now?

Edited February 20, 2021 by Bakes0

[Valtiel]

I would strongly suggest forgetting about altering your performance via a shaft switch here because there are definitely some other performance issues at work. High launch and low spin are nice, but the lack of ball speed, if accurate, is concerning as you pointed out. This could likely be due to strikes that are too high that while producing high launch and low spin, are robbing you of ball speed. Playing the club shorter could be a way to tighten up strike location, but that will start down the path of self driver fitting that could end up going sideways if you aren't careful. 

Can you confirm the accuracy of these numbers and what they were captured on first? Some pictures of your driver face would be helpful as well to see where you are striking it, assuming there is enough wear to indicate that. Sorting all that stuff out first would be preferred before going down the shaft rabbit hole. 

[Drivingrangehero]

5 hours ago, Bakes0 said:

Looking to move on from my Hzrdus yellow 5.5 63 gram stiff shaft paired with 10.5 Ping G400 Max head but don’t want to stray too far away. It’s solid for me but it feels harsh at times and I’ve gotta really go after it to get the most out of it. It’s an absolute fairway finder but I feel like I’m leaving some yards on the table with how low it launches.

 

I like the counterbalanced feel, so hoping whatever I move into has some CB. I’m also looking to cut an inch down, I play the hzrdus at 45.5 but feel like my low ball speed is caused by me rarely catching the middle of the face. My swing speed is normally around 105-107 so the high 140 ball speed is concerning.

 

Anyone have any suggestions on a comparable shaft that launches a touch higher but can keep my spin down where it is now?

Aldila Xtorsion Copper is similar. It’s like an intermediate between the Hzrdus Yellow and Tensei Pro Orange 
 

Try using foot spray on the club face to determine strike location. Your ball speed should be higher if your swing speed is around 105mph. 
 

How are you measuring swing speed? 
 

I have a sweet spot of 44.25 -44.75 inches in playing length, anything more than that and I end up with shots that are blocked to the right. My best results are with shorter shafts and adding weight to the head. My driving in the past has been sporadic at best, since the short shaft/heavy head combo, I’ve never been better off the tee. 

[Bakes0]

3 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Can you confirm the accuracy of these numbers and what they were captured on first? Some pictures of your driver face would be helpful as well to see where you are striking it, assuming there is enough wear to indicate that. Sorting all that stuff out first would be preferred before going down the shaft rabbit hole. 

100 percent agreed about the self fitting rabbit hole. I’ve done it before and it ends badly haha. As far as numbers, these are from a PGA Tour Simulator which is an aboutGolf sim. Honestly, I know these numbers probably aren’t the most accurate considering the source and I’m concerned about the ball speed but am not alarmed as I know this shaft works on the course. I’m more concerned with the feel of the shaft and looking for something a little less boardy.

 

Wish I would’ve taken pics of the face but I use impact tape every now and again and my strike pattern ranges from high toe to low middle. Appreciate the insight. 

[Bakes0]

3 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

Aldila Xtorsion Copper is similar. It’s like an intermediate between the Hzrdus Yellow and Tensei Pro Orange 
 

Try using foot spray on the club face to determine strike location. Your ball speed should be higher if your swing speed is around 105mph. 
 

How are you measuring swing speed? 
 

I have a sweet spot of 44.25 -44.75 inches in playing length, anything more than that and I end up with shots that are blocked to the right. My best results are with shorter shafts and adding weight to the head. My driving in the past has been sporadic at best, since the short shaft/heavy head combo, I’ve never been better off the tee. 

Its odd that this sim I was using didn’t measure swing speed, I go to the same place every week or so and the machines usually measure both ball and swing speed (or extrapolate one from the other). So my swing speed number is from those instances. 
 

This pic is from another session. I’m pretty sure I’m going to go see a fitter and see a couple of shafts a touch shorter and add some weight to this Ping head. I think I’m close I just know I can get a bit more out of this head. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Bakes0

[Valtiel]

3 minutes ago, Bakes0 said:

100 percent agreed about the self fitting rabbit hole. I’ve done it before and it ends badly haha. As far as numbers, these are from a PGA Tour Simulator which is an aboutGolf sim. Honestly, I know these numbers probably aren’t the most accurate considering the source and I’m concerned about the ball speed but am not alarmed as I know this shaft works on the course. I’m more concerned with the feel of the shaft and looking for something a little less boardy.

 

Wish I would’ve taken pics of the face but I use impact tape every now and again and my strike pattern ranges from high toe to low middle. Appreciate the insight. 

Gotcha, I have hit on the PGASS AboutGolf simulators before and they definitely leaved a lot to be desired in the accuracy department, especially when it came to things like swing speed and ball speed. If they offer one of those 60-90min gapping sessions like PGASS does then I would maybe utilize that service to get some real numbers for testing, provided that they using a better simulator (the PGASS here uses GCQuad). 

[Bakes0]

1 minute ago, Valtiel said:

Gotcha, I have hit on the PGASS AboutGolf simulators before and they definitely leaved a lot to be desired in the accuracy department, especially when it came to things like swing speed and ball speed. If they offer one of those 60-90min gapping sessions like PGASS does then I would maybe utilize that service to get some real numbers for testing, provided that they using a better simulator (the PGASS here uses GCQuad). 

Yea, they’re fun to play courses on but I question their accuracy every now and again, especially with the amount of side spin this thing adds to balls that I’m pretty sure I struck well. It is what it is, wish badly I could just go outside and see ball flight ha. Soon enough.

[Bakes0]

3 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

Aldila Xtorsion Copper is similar. It’s like an intermediate between the Hzrdus Yellow and Tensei Orange.

Question on these, what does the Hzrdus yellow and Tensei Orange do differently? When I was fitted for this G400, I fit into both shafts and liked them both similarly. It was a while ago so I don’t remember the exact numbers but I went with the Hzrdus as literally a toss up.

 

I know this is all relative but would you say Tensei is a bit more responsive/has some kick compared to the Hzrdus? I wish I could remember my 5-10 shot experience with it.

 

Have never hit the aldila or any aldila for that matter but I’ll look to try it for sure.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Bakes0

[Drivingrangehero]

35 minutes ago, Bakes0 said:

Question on these, what does the Hzrdus yellow and Tensei Orange do differently? When I was fitted for this G400, I fit into both shafts and liked them both similarly. It was a while ago so I don’t remember the exact numbers but I went with the Hzrdus as literally a toss up.

 

I know this is all relative but would you say Tensei is a bit more responsive/has some kick compared to the Hzrdus? I wish I could remember my 5-10 shot experience with it.

 

Have never hit the aldila or any aldila for that matter but I’ll look to try it for sure.

I asked about the launch Monitor because sometimes people are basing the swing speed of of what it says on the GC Quad which can be way off if you have the thing set on a predetermined smash factor for long irons at 1.36 rather than Driver at 1.45. It will give you an accurate ball speed, but with the wrong input, your swing speed numbers could be way off. So, anyhow, moving on from there. if swing speed and ball speed are verified, then you have strike location issues. I find that when I hit it high in the face, I lose ball speed and spin. 
 

My normal flushed Driver is between 166-168mph with 1750-1900rpm at 15-16* launch with a Bridgestone BX ball, but if I hit it high on the face the ball speed drops to 159-161 and the spin drops to 900-1100rpm while launch goes up to 18*. My usual misses on the Driver at slightly to the toe or slightly high on the face. 
 

I haven’t hit the Pro Orange, only the Tensei CK Orange and hated it...... felt dead to me. I thought the Hzrdus Yellow felt better to me. I play a Aldila Xtorsion Copper 60TX at 44.25 and my other is 44.75. I have a slow tempo and easy transition so I’m not too affected by shafts that “feel loose” in transition. From what I’ve read on a thread the yellow is for smother swingers, where the Pro Orange is more for harder transitions. The Xtorsion is said to between the two. 
 

what I do notice is the kick from loading. The Copper has plenty. As a matter of fact, Aldila shafts seem to do that a bunch for me. 
 

here is a link to the thread about the Xtorsion Copper, Hzrdus Yellow, Tensei Orange comparison. It’s a long thread. There was one by Toll bros as well on the Tensei Orange where a comparison was made 

 

[Bakes0]

Much appreciated @Drivingrangehero.
 

Awesome info, funny you posted that thread, once you mentioned the aldila in your first post I obviously googled and stumbled upon that thread, it’s a good read! Love to see people’s comparisons and the tinkering. Wish I had more means to be able to tinker and test, it’s one of my favorite parts about the game, there’s so much good equipment out there.

[Bakes0]

Down the rabbit hole more - When I ordered this club about a year ago, I bought the head and shaft separately (assembled), so I was racking my brain with what shaft length I ordered. Went back to my older order email and saw I asked for 45’. In my extremely novice club building world I didn’t realize that the club head adds 1 - 1 1/4 an inch so this club has actually been playing at 46ish. I just broke out the tape measure to confirm, removed the head and tip to grip I measured at 45’.
 

Like I said earlier, the thing is a fairway finder and I really do love it but sometimes it gets unwieldy. Just looking for small improvements. I said earlier that I didn’t want to go down the self fitting rabbit hole but I’m convinced that if I chop it down an inch to actually play at 45’ and add a couple grams of weight, I’ll be back in love with this thing again. This snow is driving me insane.

[Drivingrangehero]

11 minutes ago, Bakes0 said:

Down the rabbit hole more - When I ordered this club about a year ago, I bought the head and shaft separately (assembled), so I was racking my brain with what shaft length I ordered. Went back to my older order email and saw I asked for 45’. In my extremely novice club building world I didn’t realize that the club head adds 1 - 1 1/4 an inch so this club has actually been playing at 46ish. I just broke out the tape measure to confirm, removed the head and tip to grip I measured at 45’.
 

Like I said earlier, the thing is a fairway finder and I really do love it but sometimes it gets unwieldy. Just looking for small improvements. I said earlier that I didn’t want to go down the self fitting rabbit hole but I’m convinced that if I chop it down an inch to actually play at 45’ and add a couple grams of weight, I’ll be back in love with this thing again. This snow is driving me insane.

I’d cut it down and add headweight. I bet it will give the shaft a bit more kick and less harsh feel, not to mention better dispersion most likely. Howard had a great write up on impact location and finding VCOG. It’s worth testing out. My driver GOG is not in the middle, but slightly high toe, which is great, because that’s my miss. 👍

 

I could play the Hzrdus yellow. It’s my 2nd favorite shaft after the Xtorsion 60 Copper

[Bakes0]

41 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

I’d cut it down and add headweight. I bet it will give the shaft a bit more kick and less harsh feel, not to mention better dispersion most likely. Howard had a great write up on impact location and finding VCOG. It’s worth testing out. My driver GOG is not in the middle, but slightly high toe, which is great, because that’s my miss. 👍

 

I could play the Hzrdus yellow. It’s my 2nd favorite shaft after the Xtorsion 60 Copper

Yup, that’s what I’m gonna do. Ordered a 12gram and 15gram weight to test out (currently 7 grams in the G400 head), cut it down a touch, and then just work on my strike. 

[Evolved]

5.5=regular

6.0=stiff

[Bakes0]

21 minutes ago, Evolved said:

5.5=regular

6.0=stiff

Absolutely right, not sure why I wrote stiff on there. I edited it.

 

*ProjectX calls them “regular plus” whatever that means.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Bakes0

[Bakes0]

Thanks again for the suggestion, @Drivingrangehero. Reading through that Xtorsion thread I couldn’t help but want to try that shaft so I found one at a low price and pulled the trigger. The mid launch/low spin counterbalanced is kinda exactly the kind of shaft I was looking to try. I’ll do a little head to head with the Hzrdus yellow when it gets here. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Bakes0

[ScottHutch2]

with your swing speed, I am surprised that a regular flex gives you the stability you need unless you have a very smooth tempo and transition. I was playing an evenflow black in stiff (6.0) at 110-112 swing speed and switching the xstiff (6.5) made all the world of difference for me in terms of dispersion and stability. 

[Bakes0]

1 hour ago, ScottHutch2 said:

with your swing speed, I am surprised that a regular flex gives you the stability you need unless you have a very smooth tempo and transition. I was playing an evenflow black in stiff (6.0) at 110-112 swing speed and switching the xstiff (6.5) made all the world of difference for me in terms of dispersion and stability. 

For most shafts I’ve messed around with regulars aren’t stable at all but when I was getting fit for this club I tried both the 6.0 and 5.5 Hzrdus and the 5.5 was more than enough. I am a pretty smooth swinger for sure. I play regular shafts in my woods, helps me launch higher and then stiff shafts in my irons and hybrid.

 

With how stout the 5.5 is in the Hzrdus, I couldn’t even imagine trying to game the 6.0 and enjoying it.

[ScottHutch2]

no that makes sense. feel varies for all of us, whatever is best for your swing

[Bakes0]

Got the Aldila Xtorsion Copper in today and got over to the indoor sim. @Drivingrangehero. This shaft is money. Great feel, so smooth. I cut my Hzrdus Yellow down to the same length as the Aldila (about an inch off) and threw a 15gram weight in the head vs the 7gram weight my G400 use to have. 

 

The numbers were comically similar but the feel off the face and the dispersion from the Aldila was just flat out better. I also think the sim is selling my ball speed short, but whatever we’ll see when I get back outside. Five shots with each shaft, none taken out, average numbers - 

 

Hzrdus Yellow 5.5 63g

Carry - 234 yds

Total - 245 yds

Club Speed - 106

Ball Speed - 142

Spin - 3077

Launch - 16.2

Apex -  116ft

Offline - 18 yds

Aldila Xtorsion Copper S 60g

Carry - 239 yds

Total - 251 yds

Club Speed - 106

Ball Speed - 143

Spin - 3037

Launch - 15.1

Apex -  111ft

Offline - 7 yds

Edited February 24, 2021 by Bakes0

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Bakes0 said:

Got the Aldilla xtorsion in today and got over to the indoor sim. @Drivingrangehero. This shaft is money. Great feel, so smooth. I cut my Hzrdus Yellow down to the same length as the Aldilla (about an inch off) and threw a 15gram weight in the head vs the 7gram weight my G400 use to have. 

 

The numbers were comically similar but the feel off the face and the dispersion from the Aldilla was just flat out better. I also think the sim is selling my ball speed short, but whatever we’ll see when I get back outside. Five shots with each shaft, none taken out, average numbers - 

 

Hzrdus Yellow 5.5 63g

Carry - 234 yds

Total - 245 yds

Club Speed - 106

Ball Speed - 142

Spin - 3077

Launch - 16.2

Apex -  116ft

Offline - 18 yds

Aldilla Xtorsion Copper S 60g

Carry - 239 yds

Total - 251 yds

Club Speed - 106

Ball Speed - 143

Spin - 3037

Launch - 15.1

Apex -  111ft

Offline - 7 yds

 

Brother I saw this coming a mile away - buying a new shaft that is. Snow on the ground and you bought the new shaft the day after you started the thread.

 

That's what you wanted and that's what you did. Not that there's anything wrong with that. 👍

 

FWIW I believe that shaft weight is more important than flex, so long as the flex isn't way off. Especially since there's no standard for flex. Some may disagree.

 

You started by calling the HZ Yellow a "fairway finder" and were getting 14-15* launch and a 2000 spin rate. Very nice numbers (in that first picture) indeed; for a ss of 90 mph or 105. But the carry is off.

 

In the 2nd picture. Years of guys posting numbers here on WRX shows that carry is roughly 2.5 times the SS. Your carry numbers in the 2nd pic, one that shows SS, are nowhere near that number, again indicating poor strike locations.

 

For the 3rd listing of numbers - now you've got 2 shafts, including the same Yellow shaft and are producing a 3000 spin average, almost certainly costing you some distance. AND showing zero improvement over the very first picture you posted (a loss of carry actually). So what happened there ?

 

Ol' Valtiel and DRH suggested and/or mentioned your strikes seemed off center and you should figure out your strike location first. Don't see any evidence you did that. Did I miss it ?

 

Strike location is your FIRST STEP in figuring out your distance loss. 105 should give you somewhere in the area of 260 carry.

 

The LM that doesn't give you SS. Someone else mentioned the calculation but are you sure you're swinging 105-107. Assuming you hit the center on some of the strikes you're not getting 105 SS carry numbers on any of your drives. Somethin' ain't right.

 

As the other gentleman alluded to, ball speed is enough. Smash is a simple calculation BUT, if smash is set in the LM, either BS or SS will be off. e.g. SF of 1.5 is perfect. If you SS is 100 and your BS is 150 you SF is 1.5 - perfect.

 

BUT, if the SF is set on the LM at say 1.47 (a common driver setting), a very reasonably good strike, the LM measures your BS. So a BS of say 145 would generate a calculated SS of 98.7. (145/1.47)

 

SO, if you're really swing at 105, a BS of 145 is terrible. That's a SF of only 1.38 - indicating a very poor strike.

 

If the LM SF was set at 1.38 or so, a common setting for say, a 7 iron, that same BS of 145 would generate a calculated SS of (drum roll please) 105.

 

So, it's POSSIBLE, the LM you were on had been set up for somebody swinging a 7 iron,,,,,,,, and then you stepped in and began hitting drivers. IDK.

 

Bottom lining those numbers either you're not swinging at 105 or your strikes are all over the face. You need to find out which it is.

 

Glad you didn't pay too much for that Xtorsion.

[Bakes0]

Appreciate the insight @nsxguy, You’re probably correct in that my club head speed is around high 90s-100 and the ball speed is correct. Or the LM is set for some preconceived type of calculations. I really don’t know either. That’s all good, as long as it’s consistent and I have a general baseline to compare setups. I’m still learning about what these machines do and how they calculate the numbers. I rarely if ever got on any sort of monitors before I moved back north this winter. I played year round in the south and just played off ball flight and feel.

 

I’m definitely making it a point to work on my strike, that can always improve in my mind. Was just looking for a shaft a bit less harsh feeling that performed around the same because I’m comfortable where my numbers are at and know the only way I’ll see improvement is striking it better and not necessarily some magical shaft that will add 10 more yards. That was never the goal!

Edited February 24, 2021 by Bakes0

[mgoblue83]

@Bakes0 as @nsxguy said most launch monitors have accurate ball speeds and inflated swing speeds. Given everything you have posted you are swinging in the 95-100mph range and while a shaft change may help with consistency and feel I highly doubt you will see any ball speed improvement until you do the work required to actually swing faster.