Tiger Car Accident. ***All Content Subject to Moderation***

[BMC]

Tiger is a lousy driver.  Should have used a 3 wood.

[Hawkeye77]

18 minutes ago, TiScape said:

I could care less if it’s Tiger or Joe Blow. I have an internet in the outcome and lack of a simple blood test because if there was any level of impairment and it went unchecked, next time it could be my son or loved one in the oncoming lane of traffic. Not that amazing to to me to have concern in that regard. 

If you live near in or near Rancho Palos Verdes fair enough if that's the case.  Otherwise, really you don't.

 

The impairment thing has been covered pretty thoroughly though so I'll leave that alone. 😉

 

[Mustard_Tiger]

32 minutes ago, Redjeep83 said:

He hit the gas instead of the brake during the accident with gas pedal down 99 percent down. All I know is Tiger can't drive, years ago I knew a kid like 15 years old that didn't have his license but took a car out and did the same thing.

 

 

Last year my son was pulling into a parking stall. He thought he was pressing the brake but it was the accelerator. When the car lurched forward he pressed even harder (thinking it was the brake) and jumped a curb and struck a pine tree doing considerable damage to the car.

[TiScape]

5 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

If you live near in or near Rancho Palos Verdes fair enough if that's the case.  Otherwise, really you don't.

 

He actually does live down there. Was even a volunteer at the event. 
 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by TiScape

[grm24]

6 hours ago, masegolf1978 said:

Reports prepared by police will be subject to a FOIA request, which i imagine is how we are now receiving the info related to his rate of speed at the time of the accident.  

Tiger and his management released the information.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tiger-woods-car-accident-caused-by-speeding-according-to-la-county-sheriff-report

 

Authorities needed sign-off from Woods and his camp to release the findings of the investigation.

 

With approval from the Woods camp, Jim Powers, captain of the Lomita sheriff station, was able to elaborate on several details from the accident.

 

[phizzy30]

I read the article on yahoo news earlier today.  Cause of accident was excessive speeding.  Doing almost 90 mph is absolutely insane especially in Rolling Hills which I have driven through before which is near the Palisades.  The speed limit is 45 mph from what I remember.  That specific area is very curvy.  I mean it's one thing to do 90 on the interstate, but on a road like that, it's straight up suicide.  Not the best decision on his part but I'm glad he's ok and on the road to recovery. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by phizzy30

[BrysonD400]

he likely hit the accelerator by accident vs the brake.  this is common in accidents.  he's also lucky to be alive and goes to show you how safe cars are nowadays.  hope for a speedy recovery. 

[aenemated]

I feel like a lot of this comes down to the nature of driving on hills on a non-familiar road in a non-familiar car and a perfect storm of bullxxxx. 

 

Ms. aenemated drives a manual (one of the reasons I love her) and I drive an automatic. I dunno how many times I've gotten in my car and looked for a clutch and conversely, how many times I've gotten in her car and not known where the brake was at first. In a panic, I can totally see me getting mixed up - especially in an unfamiliar location that also happens to be a challenging bit of road. 

 

For all we know, dude got a text, looked down at it and got distracted then didn't realize he was going way to fast (which is REALLY easy to do when you're in hilly conditions) and instead of braking, hit the gas instead and accelerated super quick - causing panic and not sure what to do and BOOM CRASH.

 

Only on the internet is everyone a perfectly attentive, skillful and law abiding driver. 

[MK7Golf21]

5 minutes ago, aenemated said:

I feel like a lot of this comes down to the nature of driving on hills on a non-familiar road in a non-familiar car and a perfect storm of bullxxxx. 

 

Ms. aenemated drives a manual (one of the reasons I love her) and I drive an automatic. I dunno how many times I've gotten in my car and looked for a clutch and conversely, how many times I've gotten in her car and not known where the brake was at first. In a panic, I can totally see me getting mixed up - especially in an unfamiliar location that also happens to be a challenging bit of road. 

 

For all we know, dude got a text, looked down at it and got distracted then didn't realize he was going way to fast (which is REALLY easy to do when you're in hilly conditions) and instead of braking, hit the gas instead and accelerated super quick - causing panic and not sure what to do and BOOM CRASH.

 

Only on the internet is everyone a perfectly attentive, skillful and law abiding driver. 

well we aren’t calling him a bad driver based on this accident alone. The couple others in addition to this one formed my opinion. 

[bobbyclampett!!]

I’m sure it’s in here somewhere, but does anyone know how far the tree he crashed into was from where he left the road?

[TCWhite]

He hit the curb in the median where you can do a U-turn.  If you look at it on Google you can see he wasn't the first one to hit it.  The road is making a slow right dog leg at that point so my guess is he was momentarily distracted and wasn't turning the wheel soon enough when he hit it. 

[Krt22]

3 hours ago, soregongolfer said:

It can't be traffic infraction because it wasn't witnessed by police.  That is correct and exactly what the captain said above.  However, reckelss driving can be charged because it is a misdemeanor aka a crime.  Crimes do not have to be witnessed. The prosecution of crimes need evidence and evidence is present.  The first piece being the distance the vehicle rolled end over end.  An accident investigator could give the an estimation as to Tiger's speed with that alone.  Second, the black box data which pin-pointed Tiger's speed.  So we know that Tiger was speeding, which isn't reckless driving alone, but we know Tiger was traveling at an excessive speed.  Here's comes the explanation...   

 

California, along with my state of Oregon, has a Basic Speed Law.  The Basic Speed Law is about what speed is reasonable and prudent given outside circumstances like weather, road grade, visibility, etc.  Doing 55 mph on a highway during a major snowstorm, for example, can earn you a ticket despite not violating the speed limit.  This is where Tiger should have gotten into trouble because he was traveling at 40+ mph over the limit going down hill in an area with a lot of curves and poor visibility per posters here and others I've read.  This feeds right into the definition of reckless driving which is the wonton disregard for the safety of other drivers and property.    

 

I'm looking forward to reading quotes from former California officers regarding this case in the coming days.  Laws vary from state to state and I'm curious to hear what these officers say.  I'm a little biased because here in Oregon 30+ mph over the speed limit is an automatic reckless driving arrest.  

The biggest difference between a crime and an accident is intent, without any sort of witnesses criminal intent is hard to prove. The black box only tells you gross speed, but if the stories are right and they think he accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake when he lost control, the intent part is shaky at best, especially since all the other evidence points to him driving pretty normal up until that point.
 

25+ here is not an an automatic reckless ticket, let alone an arrest, it can be a simple citation or it can be reckless driving, it’s up to the officer. Driving fast with no one around? Likely just a ticket. Driving twice the limit, weaving in and out of traffic, losing traction, very different story. What would stick in court is highly depending on the officers account of the situation.

 

At the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter what you (or even CA LEOs) may feel or think should have happened, the agency in charge went on record to say they didn’t have enough evidence to warrant criminal charges or even a simple citation. Not to mention they only released the speed with Tiger’s approval, otherwise it would not have even become public. There is really no reason to play the shoulda woulda coulda game.
 

IMHO the only people who have a problem with this are those who have always had issues with Tiger, for various completely non-golf related issues and biases

[LeoKal]

1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

The biggest difference between a crime and an accident is intent, without any sort of witnesses criminal intent is hard to prove. The black box only tells you gross speed, but if the stories are right and they think he accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake when he lost control, the intent part is shaky at best, especially since all the other evidence points to him driving pretty normal up until that point.
 

25+ here is not an an automatic reckless ticket, let alone an arrest, it can be a simple citation or it can be reckless driving, it’s up to the officer. Driving fast with no one around? Likely just a ticket. Driving twice the limit, weaving in and out of traffic, losing traction, very different story. What would stick in court is highly depending on the officers account of the situation.

 

At the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter what you (or even CA LEOs) may feel or think should have happened, the agency in charge went on record to say they didn’t have enough evidence to warrant criminal charges or even a simple citation. Not to mention they only released the speed with Tiger’s approval, otherwise it would not have even become public. There is really no reason to play the shoulda woulda coulda game.
 

IMHO the only people who have a problem with this are those who have always had issues with Tiger, for various completely non-golf related issues and biases

The law of speeding has nothing to do with intent.  It is strict liability!  Not many defenses for driving twice the speed limit.  

[Mustard_Tiger]

I give Tiger's camp credit for allowing the report to be released. It provides evidence he doesn't have anything to hide.

[Frankensteins Monster]

He was speeding. He was on a dangerous stretch of the road. He panicked and hit the gas. It could have been worse with other people involved. He's alive and can be there for his kids. Anything said beyond that is arguing for the sake of arguing.

[chigolfer1]

20 hours ago, DFS PFD said:

So he was driving 80+ MPH, and accelerating at the time of incident according to WSJ report, yet no reason to suspect he was under the influence. I hope Tiger is okay and recovers well, but I don't think this is how average people would be treated under the exact same circumstances. Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

How do you think average people are treated in a one car accident with no one else injured, no property damage (other than the car) and no obvious impairment?   I honestly don't know but  you seem to think they are going to spend a bunch of resources for it.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by chigolfer1

[chigolfer1]

13 hours ago, BrysonD400 said:

he likely hit the accelerator by accident vs the brake.  this is common in accidents.  he's also lucky to be alive and goes to show you how safe cars are nowadays.  hope for a speedy recovery. 

 

That's literally what the report says happened.

[DFS PFD]

20 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

How do you think average people are treated in a one car accident with no one else injured, no property damage (other than the car) and no obvious impairment?   I honestly don't know but  you seem to think they are going to spend a bunch of resources for it.

 

 

Considering the amount speculation (interrogation almost with no other infractions or record) allowed when I get stopped for having headlights aimed too high, I'm not sure what I would expect. Especially when the subject of the accident has a history of back pain (typically leads to opiate prescriptions), and was driving recklessly (assuming almost 2X the speed limit qualifies as reckless to you). Anyways, maybe you're right and this is how every high speed victimless accident in populated areas play out, I guess we'll never know for sure. None of my speculation will lead anywhere meaningful so I'll be done with this subject. Good luck to Tiger, and hope he has a full and healthy recovery. 

[PixlPutterman]

First off, super glad he survived and is on the road to recovery, but something seems off about the simplicity of the report.

 

Twice the speed limit and at no point hit the brakes.......

[Krt22]

10 hours ago, LeoKal said:

The law of speeding has nothing to do with intent.  It is strict liability!  Not many defenses for driving twice the speed limit.  

Speeding alone is a simple citation, without a LEO to witness it, its not enforceable in CA, as I said and as what was stated in the news article. That is the law and internet opinions aren't going to change that. Tiger is not being cited for anything, not because he is a celebrity, but because there simply wasn't enough evidence to warrant it and have it hold up in court.

 

56 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

How do you think average people are treated in a one car accident with no one else injured, no property damage (other than the car) and no obvious impairment?   I honestly don't know but  you seem to think they are going to spend a bunch of resources for it.

 

 

For the most part they just make sure you are insured, have a valid driver's license, and aren't injured. I've crashed my motorcycle right in front of a police officer and I came away with nothing but a bruised ego and bashed up bike

[BlackDiamondPar5]

19 hours ago, CasualLie said:

 

Oh yes!  Can't believe it took 41 pages to get a look at Toonces!

LOL--- I was literally backing out of my driveway listening the presser and when the guy said his car flew through the air and did a pirouette my mind immediately went to Toonces the cat and I started laughing 🤣   

[TiScape]

17 hours ago, BMC said:

Tiger is a lousy driver.  Should have used a 3 wood.

 I’d say downright atrocious. Time to permanently pull the driver from the bag! 

[TiScape]

17 hours ago, BrysonD400 said:

he likely hit the accelerator by accident vs the brake.  this is common in accidents.  

If your 80! Haha. No seriously, I’m sure it happens. I’ve seen a few accidents around my area where someone gets ‘pedal confusion’ and drives into a business/restaurant. It’s always a senior citizen. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by TiScape

[LeoKal]

2 hours ago, Krt22 said:

Speeding alone is a simple citation, without a LEO to witness it, its not enforceable in CA, as I said and as what was stated in the news article. That is the law and internet opinions aren't going to change that. Tiger is not being cited for anything, not because he is a celebrity, but because there simply wasn't enough evidence to warrant it and have it hold up in court.

 

For the most part they just make sure you are insured, have a valid driver's license, and aren't injured. I've crashed my motorcycle right in front of a police officer and I came away with nothing but a bruised ego and bashed up bike

Are you an attorney?   I am although I am in Colorado.  And I used to specialise in traffic as a defense attorney and in injuries in civil cases.  I looked at the California law briefly and it is not much different from Colorado.  And at least here most of us would have received a speeding citation under similar cirumstances.  In fact such speed would often result in a reckless driving citation.  The notion that he accidently hit the accelerator instead of the brake is pretty unlikely.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, LeoKal said:

Are you an attorney?   I am although I am in Colorado.  And I used to specialise in traffic as a defense attorney and in injuries in civil cases.  I looked at the California law briefly and it is not much different from Colorado.  And at least here most of us would have received a speeding citation under similar cirumstances.  In fact such speed would often result in a reckless driving citation.  The notion that he accidently hit the accelerator instead of the brake is pretty unlikely.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it, did it really fall? 

From the article (again)

Q: Why is he not being cited?

James C. Powers, captain of the Lomita sheriff’s station, said data from Wood’s SUV was not enough to cite Woods with speeding. He said the act had to be witnessed by a law enforcement officer, which is required for a citation.

“It is a solo traffic collision,” said L.A. County Sheriff Alex Villanueva. “We are not going to issue a citation for an infraction not in a peace officer’s presence. That would apply to everybody.” Villanueva said any suggestion that Woods had received special treatment “is false.”

 

Dmitry Gorin, a former deputy district attorney in Los Angeles County, said that the data from the SUV’s “black box” — which officials said showed the speeding — could be used as evidence to generate a ticket. But as a practical matter, he said, law enforcement agencies require a witness of some kind to issue a speeding ticket.

Moreover, Gorin said he was not aware of a case when a speeding ticket was issued solely with data from a vehicle’s black box.

 

 

[Dpavs]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:05 PM, BMC said:

Tiger is a lousy driver.  Should have used a 3 wood.

 

Agreed and maybe they should at least fine him for not yelling "Fore Left" as he crossed the center line. 🙂

[BobMorris]

New info...

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31222768/tiger-woods-thought-was-florida-crash-los-angeles-according-collision-report

[Holy Moses]

“There was an empty pill bottle with no labeling found in the front pocket of a backpack in the SUV, according to a supplemental report.”

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31222768/tiger-woods-thought-was-florida-crash-los-angeles-according-collision-report

[Golfrnut]

Great sleuthing guys. Know how many things I’ve used pill bottles for other than pills?  
 

-Empty

-Cant tell if anything was ever in there or what it might have been. 
 

This is right up there with the media standard...

[Mustard_Tiger]

4 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

“There was an empty pill bottle with no labeling found in the front pocket of a backpack in the SUV, according to a supplemental report.”

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31222768/tiger-woods-thought-was-florida-crash-los-angeles-according-collision-report

 

 

The L.A. County Fire Department captain observed that Woods' pupils were "not pinpoint and not restricted which would have been indicative of narcotic analgesic influence."