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Irons spinning Too Low? Or just swing mechanics??


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Just got out of lockdown and am now able to go to a sim locally.  Swing is very rusty and am swinging it much slower than usual 87 mph 8i avg and also am very dumped under at around 10-12 degrees in to out.  I see that my irons are spinning very low and am wondering if its due to the path being so inside out or even due to my lack of speed.  I play Srixon z785 irons which are 1 degree weak but now am considering bending them another degree weak.  Included a screenshot of my 8 iron numbers below.

TM 8I Feb 24.JPG

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@Canuckgolfer67   I am concerned a little about the left hand corner      1 shot, is not the definer?   159.8y ,144y & 156.9y.   This is 3 shots with the 8

These numbers actually were consistent.  I screenshotted the next couple of swings which the numbers seemed even more ridiculous.  The next ball I hit was a 1.45 smash with 111 ball speed and 76 club

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I don’t see anything in your speed or spin loft suggesting low spin. Is a contact issue? Maybe a low quality ball? Or a radar that isn’t accurate with spin?

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dsmil,

 

It feels as if I am hitting centre of the face and considering I'm getting that high of a smash factor I would think that is true. I am using a standard 2020 Pro V1.  Also I was on the same sim several months ago and was spinning 8 iron at 6800 mind you it was with different irons but they had similar lofts.  I don't think it's an issue with the sim because I seem to keep getting the same numbers in terms of spin.

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2 hours ago, Canuckgolfer67 said:

Just got out of lockdown and am now able to go to a sim locally.  Swing is very rusty and am swinging it much slower than usual 87 mph 8i avg and also am very dumped under at around 10-12 degrees in to out.  I see that my irons are spinning very low and am wondering if its due to the path being so inside out or even due to my lack of speed.  I play Srixon z785 irons which are 1 degree weak but now am considering bending them another degree weak.  Included a screenshot of my 8 iron numbers below.

 

Couple Random thoughts,

 

PGA Trackman Averages

 

8iron - 160 Carry

Smash - 1.32

Swing Speed - 87mph

Ball speed - 115mph

Spin - 7998

Height - 31y (93ft)

LA - 18.1

 

Your sim/Trackman?? 

 

8iron - 159.8 Carry - On the Money 

Smash - 1.32 vs 1.43 smash, .09 Higher, or similar to a 4iron which is oddly high

Swing Speed - 77mph -  vs 87 - 10mph speed less.  Thats a big difference

Ball speed - 111 mph - vs 115mph,  4mph less, thats a decent difference

Spin - 4773 -vs 7998 - 3,225rpms less big time issue

Height - 72ft vs 31y (93ft) almost 20ft lower.

LA- 16.7 * vs 18.1 - 1.4* difference in launch.  seems a bit low for an 8 iron thats not jacked lofts.

 

 

 

Ok so oddly,  You smash is very high for an 8 iron,  something is wonky,  meaning you are getting the same smash factor as an 4rion,  Something not reading right.

 

Your Spin is also about WHAT a 4 iron would be?

 

The height/ Launch angle is low for a 8iron, by almost 2 degrees.    Z785 8 iron is 36* at 1* degree is 37*  Thats a Modern MB/Players irons 8iron (38*) So its not jacked loft issue.

 

 

 

Plugging your odd numbers into an optimizer,

 

This is what you should be seeing? 

image.png.f9badecd5c9b441c6bf469cdc85d89d0.png

 

Which is Really weird.

 

 

I am going to say your Ball speed is right,

 

115mph,  With any type of consistency,  lets say  optimal smash of 1.32 = 87mph ballspeeds.  

Throw in the 18* of launch and 8000rpms of spin,

 

There is your Tour Average and also assuming your averages you think you should be hittingimage.png.6eaa6b897a3de92c3390216799701bcd.png

 

 

Spin is off somewhere, Junk balls,  non calibrated system??? Something off 

 

Edited by Exactice808

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@Canuckgolfer67

 

I am concerned a little about the left hand corner 

 

image.png.c004060e4f27da457001d3b06aee4b5f.png

 

1 shot, is not the definer?

 

159.8y ,144y & 156.9y.   This is 3 shots with the 8 iron I presume?

 

You say you are hitting in the middle?  But the 144y not so much and the 156 would seem the average/mean?

 

I mean at those distance,  you are looking at 85mph swing speed @ 1.32 smash = 112mph ball speeds and some generic optimal launch characteristics,   Thats 155y carry.

 

What numbers are you expecting or going against?

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Exactice808,

 

The yardages are all over the place because I am focusing on a swing change and try to do some swings at slower speeds to focus on the change.  I was on this same sim with my old p770 irons at the same loft as my srixon's and I was spinning the 8 iron at about 6500 rpm on average. I could post an old screenshot of those numbers if you would like.  At that time I was swinging much less in to out (about 4-6 in to out).

 

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4 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

. I would not use smash factor as an indicator of a good strike, TM seems to under-read CHS indoors which inflates smash. Do the balls have metallic dots? If no it's likely a misread, if yes maybe a slightly thin strike and mat effect

This is what I came to post. TM has trouble picking up spin indoors without a metal sticker on the ball. 

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1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

. I would not use smash factor as an indicator of a good strike, TM seems to under-read CHS indoors which inflates smash. Do the balls have metallic dots? If no it's likely a misread, if yes maybe a slightly thin strike and mat effect

The balls do not have metallic dots. Also I tend to hit a little close to the sim because the back of the mat is a little more worn down. Maybe that has something to do with it?

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16 hours ago, Canuckgolfer67 said:

Exactice808,

 

The yardages are all over the place because I am focusing on a swing change and try to do some swings at slower speeds to focus on the change.  I was on this same sim with my old p770 irons at the same loft as my srixon's and I was spinning the 8 iron at about 6500 rpm on average. I could post an old screenshot of those numbers if you would like.  At that time I was swinging much less in to out (about 4-6 in to out).

 

 

Thats kinda my point,  I dont doubt your ability, so I figured something was up,  But you gave us a screen shot of a single shot after 3 with a REALLY bad reading.

 

Was this reading consistent, I.e after you got into a groove and hit 10 shots? Did you;

 

You see a smash of 1.43 which is way off (consistently)

a Launch angle of 16* (consistently)

and spin in the 4700 range. (consistently)

 

If this is your consistent number, I would chalk it up as a the monitor might be off or the balls are inconsistent. (needs metallic dots etc) 

 

If this was truly just a one off bad reading.  $20,000 LM's have known to misread once in a while.

 

 

TL:DR,  Montior is off,  Spin is off,  Ball speed looks good.

 

1) Try with the metallic Dots on the ball

2) Check any normalization numbers on Trackman

3) check any altitude numbers but I doubt that makes a difference on spin, more than it would afffect distance/ballspeed

4) Go grab one or 2 other 8 irons and hit them.  See what Spin numbers those show up

5) I cant imagine its only the 8 iron you are having issues?  PW, Driver, 4 irons?  What about those? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways.   Again back to my original point. 

 

1)  What is your "normal" carry/total difference.  if its about 160 total then the numbers are "decent"

2) What is your Normal Ball speed?,  to be fair MOST monitors read ball speed well,   This one showed 115mph which is HIGHLY legit compared the the low 77mph swing speed.  115 /1.30 = 88mph swing speeds.   You said yourself you have about a 87mph swing speed.  (87mph swing speed x 1.32,pga smash efficiency = 115mph ball speed)

 

3) Spin is off,  4700rpm with an 8 iron.   The decent angle and the lack of spin. makes this 8 iron almost unplayable.  I mean Trackman edifies it by its own numbers,

159 carry, 173total, I mean who anticipates 14y of roll with an 8 iron?  

 

8 iron to me is basically the strongest of scoring clubs meaning, 8iron and below I am assuming to stone flags. (Anything above the 8iron, im happy to be on the green)  If  had a 150-155y par 3 I am hitting 8 irons all day at this flag.  No way would I want a club that rolled out an additional 10y or  30ft from the intended flag due to a low launch and low spin and flat decent angle at the pin.

 

 

GL OP

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Exactice808 said:

 

Thats kinda my point,  I dont doubt your ability, so I figured something was up,  But you gave us a screen shot of a single shot after 3 with a REALLY bad reading.

 

Was this reading consistent, I.e after you got into a groove and hit 10 shots? Did you;

 

You see a smash of 1.43 which is way off (consistently)

a Launch angle of 16* (consistently)

and spin in the 4700 range. (consistently)

 

If this is your consistent number, I would chalk it up as a the monitor might be off or the balls are inconsistent. (needs metallic dots etc) 

 

If this was truly just a one off bad reading.  $20,000 LM's have known to misread once in a while.

 

 

TL:DR,  Montior is off,  Spin is off,  Ball speed looks good.

 

1) Try with the metallic Dots on the ball

2) Check any normalization numbers on Trackman

3) check any altitude numbers but I doubt that makes a difference on spin, more than it would afffect distance/ballspeed

4) Go grab one or 2 other 8 irons and hit them.  See what Spin numbers those show up

5) I cant imagine its only the 8 iron you are having issues?  PW, Driver, 4 irons?  What about those? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways.   Again back to my original point. 

 

1)  What is your "normal" carry/total difference.  if its about 160 total then the numbers are "decent"

2) What is your Normal Ball speed?,  to be fair MOST monitors read ball speed well,   This one showed 115mph which is HIGHLY legit compared the the low 77mph swing speed.  115 /1.30 = 88mph swing speeds.   You said yourself you have about a 87mph swing speed.  (87mph swing speed x 1.32,pga smash efficiency = 115mph ball speed)

 

3) Spin is off,  4700rpm with an 8 iron.   The decent angle and the lack of spin. makes this 8 iron almost unplayable.  I mean Trackman edifies it by its own numbers,

159 carry, 173total, I mean who anticipates 14y of roll with an 8 iron?  

 

8 iron to me is basically the strongest of scoring clubs meaning, 8iron and below I am assuming to stone flags. (Anything above the 8iron, im happy to be on the green)  If  had a 150-155y par 3 I am hitting 8 irons all day at this flag.  No way would I want a club that rolled out an additional 10y or  30ft from the intended flag due to a low launch and low spin and flat decent angle at the pin.

 

 

GL OP

 

 

 

These numbers actually were consistent.  I screenshotted the next couple of swings which the numbers seemed even more ridiculous.  The next ball I hit was a 1.45 smash with 111 ball speed and 76 club speed and a spin rate of 4500 (157 carry 173 total).  This is close to my normal ball speed of 115-120 with 8 iron and a 87mph swing speed. 

 

Next time I'm at the sim I am going to try a different 8 iron and also hitting the ball a bit further away from the screen.  Will share results after.

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26 minutes ago, Canuckgolfer67 said:

These numbers actually were consistent.  I screenshotted the next couple of swings which the numbers seemed even more ridiculous.  The next ball I hit was a 1.45 smash with 111 ball speed and 76 club speed and a spin rate of 4500 (157 carry 173 total).  This is close to my normal ball speed of 115-120 with 8 iron and a 87mph swing speed. 

 

Next time I'm at the sim I am going to try a different 8 iron and also hitting the ball a bit further away from the screen.  Will share results after.

 

Perfect!   Edifies my thoughts.

 

1) I think you have ballspeeds of 111-115 ish.  I dont doubt that. 

2) Smash is off,  No way you are getting anywhere near 1.45 with an 8 iron.,

3) Spin could be off,  that's really low, I mean its usually iron x 1000, 8iron  = 8000rpms, 7iron 7,000rpms as a generic standard

4) Launch angle seems low, as the decent angle for an 8iron would be really flat and without spin holding any green would be very difficult.

 

 

Check the Simulator it could need an update, recalibration or even someone has a weird setting.  I know there is an Iron choice in the setting I dont know if that matters,  as it is still going to read live ball data, but I do recall seeing my guy pick PW, when I hit PW, and Driver when I hit driver. 

 

 

 

 

 

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TM 15* M2v1 - RIP Phenom 60S
TM 18* M2v1 - Rogue 70S
TM TP MC - 4 & 5 PX 6.0 Rifles
Sub70 - PW-8MBs, 7&6 CBs  PX 6.0 Rifles
Vokey SM7 - 50*/8*, 56*/10* & 60*/8* S300
Scotty Newport 2 - 33"

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I would evaluate the flight outdoors off grass or ensure you are getting accurate numbers off the monitor. I also think hitting off a mat generally allows you to hit a lower spinning iron shot. 

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