ADVICE? Instructor Insists Bowed Wrist Is Wrong, Must Cup

[DaveLeeNC]

Just a general comment. I have heard for years (make that decades) that a bowed left wrist requires a lot of turn to avoid hitting the ball with a shut clubface. I believed it. 

 

More recently I have gone to a bowed left wrist around the top of the swing.  I do not have a ton of rotation (before or after) and, for me, this does NOT lead to a shut clubface at impact. It DOES lead to less movement required to get square and I found that 'this just happened as if my magic'. I did not have to make a conscious adjustment. Literally 'it just happened' (FWIW, I was following Monte S.'s NTC videos). 

 

YMMV. 

 

dave

Edited February 28, 2021 by DaveLeeNC

[glk]

41 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

Just a general comment. I have heard for years (make that decades) that a bowed left wrist requires a lot of turn to avoid hitting the ball with a shut clubface. I believed it. 

 

More recently I have gone to a bowed left wrist around the top of the swing.  I do not have a ton of rotation (before or after) and, for me, this does NOT lead to a shut clubface at impact. It DOES lead to less movement required to get square and I found that 'this just happened as if my magic'. I did not have to make a conscious adjustment. Literally 'it just happened' (FWIW, I was following Monte S.'s NTC videos). 

 

YMMV. 

 

dave

Yeah a shut face at the top doesn't lead to hooks or require a lot of rotation -  it does require less motorcycle movement and if one does more motorcycle then it will require being more open.     

 

Tyler has a good video on grip strength to sternum location with a short preview video on his youtube site - gets across the main points - the longer version requires membership (or free trial) to his golf smart academy site)

 

[glk]

1 hour ago, ElMacho said:

I

 

I’m on baby duty today, but I’ll try my best to incorporate this advice tomorrow. I’ll report back by Tuesday. Thanks again to everyone.

Knees movement is important toward rotating the pelvis on a tilted angle - left knee out toward toes (the pivot will bring is slightly inward) and right knee slightly straightens - this causes the right hip to work back and up and the left hip to work down (think left foot pushes ground away from target line and right foot pushes toward the target line - this reverses in the downswing) and cause the center of the pelvis to work slightly back from setup (or maintain where it was) - getting the left hip to swing down and around will move the pelvis center forward in the backswing guaranteeing early extension.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrBiHCqlCkz/

Edited February 28, 2021 by glk

[ElMacho]

I only had 30 minutes at the range tonight, but the results were pretty disappointing. At home, I tried to work on my hip turn these past few days. On the range, my focus was to deloft the club and maintain lag, while twisting my hips to a greater extent. The reality, it appears to me, was worse than my previous swings.

 

As for lag: I've tried the drills by meandmygolf, Clay Ballard, and Eric Corgono, but I don't seem to be able to convince my body to "create lag" and good shots at the same time. If anyone has any recommendations given my swing, I would be very grateful.

Edited March 2, 2021 by ElMacho
Misspelled "my".

[MonteScheinblum]

You’re losing lag because of poor hip turn, you’re putting the cart before the horse...and working on multiple issues never succeeds.  If you lagged the club from that pelvis position, you’d top it.  It’s why you can’t work on it directly.  Trying to deloft  the club on purpose is NEVER a good idea.

 

Thats a sway not a turn.  The right hip needs to work behind you and toward the target in the second half of the backswing.

Edited March 2, 2021 by MonteScheinblum

[MonteScheinblum]

The green line is where the right hip was at address.  Look at the shape of the right leg.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by MonteScheinblum

[ElMacho]

 

22 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

You’re losing lag because of poor hip turn, you’re putting the cart before the horse...and working on multiple issues never succeeds.  If you lagged the club from that pelvis position, you’d top it.  It’s why you can’t work on it directly.  Trying to deloft  the club on purpose is NEVER a good idea.

 

Thats a sway not a turn.  The right hip needs to work behind you and toward the target in the second half of the backswing.

Thank you. I will put the hip turn first. And thank you for the comparison. What a stark difference! I will follow up after making my best effort to make this improvement. 

[LeftDaddy]

Yeah, get rid of that sway. The grip looks a little better. On the hip turn, you’ll need to work on it both on the way back and the way down. It won’t be easy. 
 

On the way back, think of shifting your weight to the inside of your right heel. And to turn the hips, consider a push of pressure from your legs/feet on each end of your pelvis in opposite directions. Left knee points in and toward the ball, right leg extends and almost feels like you are pushing back and toward the target. Practice with your backside against a wall and “wipe” your right cheek/hip toward the target after about halfway back in the backswing. You’ll need a shift of weight in your legs/feet, and extension of your upper spine back toward the target. 
 

Practice this a lot without a club, and then with a club but no ball, then a ball, etc. 

 

Then when you get that better, the hard work begins on hip turn at impact 🙂

Edited March 2, 2021 by LeftDaddy

[ej002]

Here 

 

 

[chigolfer1]

On 3/1/2021 at 9:24 PM, ElMacho said:

I only had 30 minutes at the range tonight, but the results were pretty disappointing. At home, I tried to work on my hip turn these past few days. On the range, my focus was to deloft the club and maintain lag, while twisting my hips to a greater extent. The reality, it appears to me, was worse than my previous swings.

 

As for lag: I've tried the drills by meandmygolf, Clay Ballard, and Eric Corgono, but I don't seem to be able to convince my body to "create lag" and good shots at the same time. If anyone has any recommendations given my swing, I would be very grateful.

 

IMG_0411.MOV 24.45 MB · 0 downloads

 

That's your swing right now and the instructor's first thought was to talk about trying to cup your wrist more?   That seems...troubling.  As others have said, ask why he's saying that first at least but, after that, probably time for a new instructor, like Monte for instance.

[chigolfer1]

On 2/28/2021 at 12:00 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

you’re stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime.

 

Oh, I like that one

[hoganfan924]

34 minutes ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

Oh, I like that one

In the equity trading world, they say "stepping in front of a steamroller to pick up nickels." 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, hoganfan924 said:

In the equity trading world, they say "stepping in front of a steamroller to pick up nickels." 

Stealing that

[ElMacho]

On 3/1/2021 at 10:39 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

The green line is where the right hip was at address.  Look at the shape of the right leg.

 

 

I worked pretty doggedly on my hip-turn these past two days. I know it seems that do not unwound my hips much on the downswing, but it feels completely rotated before I begin the upper body. Any tips based on what you see?

Edited March 4, 2021 by ElMacho

[ElMacho]

Also, DTL.

[MonteScheinblum]

Long term this is going to payoff.  Short term the sequencing is off because it’s so different than what you were doing.  
 

Biggest reason golfers don’t get better....”it feels weird and it isn’t perfect immediately.”

 

You have to allow time to adapt and ingrain.  Tour players talk in terms of months and even years.  Ams tend to talk in terms of days and shot to shot.

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, ElMacho said:

I worked pretty doggedly on my hip-turn these past two days. I know it seems that do not unwound my hips much on the downswing, but it feels completely rotated before I begin the upper body. Any tips based on what you see?

 

 

2 hours ago, ElMacho said:

Also, DTL.

 

Any idea of what you've done differently so that the TOP video shows up and the bottom one doesn't ? All I see for the bottom video is the black "control bar"

 

This is happening a lot lately and the board might want to know why - there may be something they can do about the bottom video "type" to make them show.

 

TIA

[ElMacho]

On 3/3/2021 at 11:15 PM, nsxguy said:

 

 

Any idea of what you've done differently so that the TOP video shows up and the bottom one doesn't ? All I see for the bottom video is the black "control bar"

 

This is happening a lot lately and the board might want to know why - there may be something they can do about the bottom video "type" to make them show.

 

TIA

Is it still malfunctioning?

Edited March 5, 2021 by ElMacho

[ElMacho]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Long term this is going to payoff.  Short term the sequencing is off because it’s so different than what you were doing.  
 

Biggest reason golfers don’t get better....”it feels weird and it isn’t perfect immediately.”

 

You have to allow time to adapt and ingrain.  Tour players talk in terms of months and even years.  Ams tend to talk in terms of days and shot to shot.

Thank you for your advice and perspective. I couldn't miss tonight on the range, so I plan to internalize the changes as best as possible.

[LeftDaddy]

You can’t turn your hips because your weight is set up too far over your toes at address. You need to get your armpits over the balls of your feet. That will allow you to make more hip turn going back. You early extend on the downswing and that also locks out your hip rotation (and you early extend because your weight is too far on your toes and your butt is too far behind you at address). 

[thejazzmarauder]

On 2/26/2021 at 7:31 AM, Obee said:

I can take a stab at that: because players with both left wrist need a ton of rotation and side-bend to be in a suitable impact position. The impact position alone puts a tremendous strain on the back. I know, I played that way for years and am now paying for it. 

Well, as someone who just started flattening left wrist and has a shaky back, this is concerning. The additional strain at impact is noticeable, for sure. I took it to the range last week and my path was consistently perfect, but I was definitely sore afterwards. Starting to get worried... 

[Obee]

Just now, thejazzmarauder said:

Well, as someone who just started flattening left wrist and has a shaky back, this is concerning. The additional strain at impact is noticeable, for sure. I took it to the range last week and my path was consistently perfect, but I was definitely sore afterwards. Starting to get worried... 

 

Yeah, it's not joke. Definitely a tough swing for a person with a balky back.

[David69]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:39 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

The green line is where the right hip was at address.  Look at the shape of the right leg.

 

 

Why is this so difficult for many golfers to do correctly? I struggle with this same sway issue all the time. Especially when I try to add speed - my form just goes out the window. 

[thejazzmarauder]

7 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

Yeah, it's not joke. Definitely a tough swing for a person with a balky back.

Well $#!+ 

[TheDeanAbides]

26 minutes ago, David69 said:

Why is this so difficult for many golfers to do correctly? I struggle with this same sway issue all the time. Especially when I try to add speed - my form just goes out the window. 

If you've been doing it wrong for years it's going to take time to fix. Saying that, there's a great post on Monte's Instagram where he changed someone's pivot simply by changing his wrist conditions. 

[nsxguy]

17 hours ago, ElMacho said:

Is it still not malfunctioning?

 

I guess that's a "No" then. In my previous post I quoted TWO of your "videos". One that SHOWED a picture (and the video played) and the 2nd showed ONLY a black bar.

 

That is why I asked you what, if anything, you did differently to post each of them

 

Take THIS post of yours I now quoted. All I see is a BLACK BAR. NO picture.

 

Do YOU (or anyone else for that matter) see a PICTURE ?

[ElMacho]

5 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

I guess that's a "No" then. In my previous post I quoted TWO of your "videos". One that SHOWED a picture (and the video played) and the 2nd showed ONLY a black bar.

 

That is why I asked you what, if anything, you did differently to post each of them

 

Take THIS post of yours I now quoted. All I see is a BLACK BAR. NO picture.

 

Do YOU (or anyone else for that matter) see a PICTURE ?

Sorry for not answering your question immediately. It always worked for me. Both video were made and uploaded in the same way.

Edited March 5, 2021 by ElMacho

[nsxguy]

14 hours ago, ElMacho said:

Sorry for not answering your question immediately. It always worked for me. Both video were made and uploaded in the same way.

 

OK, thanks.

 

A mystery then.

[Zitlow]

It's a good thing your instructor isn't teaching Dustin Johnson. 

[ElMacho]

On 3/1/2021 at 10:36 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

You’re losing lag because of poor hip turn, you’re putting the cart before the horse...and working on multiple issues never succeeds.  If you lagged the club from that pelvis position, you’d top it.  It’s why you can’t work on it directly.  Trying to deloft  the club on purpose is NEVER a good idea.

 

Thats a sway not a turn.  The right hip needs to work behind you and toward the target in the second half of the backswing.

I've tried to incorporate your advice. Here are my driver, 2-iron, and pitching wedge. Would you say that my head swaying away at contact is a top priority or should I focus on other problems first?

Edited March 15, 2021 by ElMacho