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School me on Titleist adapters


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I've been playing Callaway for so long and I'm trying out a new TS2 3 wood. School me on what the adapter ACTUALLY DOES when you change the settings. I have the chart and I know what all the settings say they do and mean - but is it similar to the Callaway in that the loft changes are ONLY when squaring up the face, and draw/fade changes are ONLY when you lie the club on the ground?

 

Also do loft changes inherently open/close the face or make the club more flat/upright WITHOUT any change in the draw/fade settings?

Epic Max LS + Tensei CK Pro Blue / TS2 3W + TBD / TS2 7W + Diamana B / GAPR Lo 4 + TBD  / Apex 19 Pro + Modus3 120 / MD5 / Toulon Las Vegas + SuperStroke Cord 2.0

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It's actually a really good way to determine if someone is sensitive to face angle and start the process of fitting them for face angle (for those that are sensitive).  So it's really something everyo

A lot of people are not sensitive to it, but for those that are the change is very visible.  And FYI, going from a loft of -1 to +2 changes the face angle by ~5.5*.

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26 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

I've been playing Callaway for so long and I'm trying out a new TS2 3 wood. School me on what the adapter ACTUALLY DOES when you change the settings. I have the chart and I know what all the settings say they do and mean - but is it similar to the Callaway in that the loft changes are ONLY when squaring up the face, and draw/fade changes are ONLY when you lie the club on the ground?

 

Also do loft changes inherently open/close the face or make the club more flat/upright WITHOUT any change in the draw/fade settings?

 

All the adapters are the same.   But you're statement "the loft changes are ONLY when squaring up the face, and draw/fade changes are ONLY when you lie the club on the ground?"  isn't correct.   At best it's a gross over simplification.

 

with "loft" adjustments:

Static loft doesn't change.

Effective loft does change.

Face angle does change.

 

What that means as far as what will happen to the ball flight does depend on how sensitive the individual is to face angle changes.  But there is much more to that than just whether you ground the club at address or not.   Face angle can potentially effect many other aspects of setting up and swinging the club.   Bottom line is that it is extremely subjective and only way to really tell what will happen is to give the different settings a try and check your results (not what happens to someone else when they make the same settings change).

Edited by Stuart_G
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9 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

All the adapters are the same.   But you're statement "the loft changes are ONLY when squaring up the face, and draw/fade changes are ONLY when you lie the club on the ground?"  isn't correct.   At best it's a gross over simplification.

 

with "loft" adjustments:

Static loft doesn't change.

Effective loft does change.

Face angle does change.

 

What that means as far as what will happen to the ball flight does depend on how sensitive the individual is to face angle changes.  But there is much more to that than just whether you ground the club at address or not.   Face angle can potentially effect many other aspects of setting up and swinging the club.   Bottom line is that it is extremely subjective and only way to really tell what will happen is to give the different settings a try and check your results (not what happens to someone else when they make the same settings change).

 

Fine, but lets not get that player-specific. Pretending we're doing this on a robot for a second...

 

When you loft UP on a titleist adapter does it in theory close the face and up the lie angle as well? And vice versa for lofting DOWN?

Edited by third-times-a-charm

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16 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

 

Fine, but lets not get that player-specific. Pretending we're doing this on a robot for a second...

 

When you loft UP on a titleist adapter does it in theory close the face and up the lie angle as well? And vice versa for lofting DOWN?

 

For the Titleist adapter, lie angle changes are independent from the loft/face angle (more so than any other OEM adapter).

 

Face angle does change but what happens if you put it on robot - depends on if and how you re-align the face after changing the setting.   If you re-align the face in the machine after changing the setting to stay square at impact, the dynamic loft will change and face-to-path wont change.   If you don't realign, the face orientation (face-to-path) at impact will change and dynamic loft will stay the same.

Edited by Stuart_G
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1 minute ago, me05501 said:

I'm also used to the Callaway OptiFit. I must not be as visually sensitive as others because I have changed my settings many times and never notice any visual difference in face angle. Of course 1* out of a possible 360* is going to be hard to see. 

 

A lot of people are not sensitive to it, but for those that are the change is very visible.  And FYI, going from a loft of -1 to +2 changes the face angle by ~5.5*.

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Just now, Stuart_G said:

 

A lot of people are not sensitive to it, but for those that are the change is very visible.  And FYI, going from a loft of -1 to +2 changes the face angle by ~5.5*.

 

True, true! But I'm not sure how many people use the tech in precisely that way (going directly from -1 to +2 to achieve a fit). 

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6 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

True, true! But I'm not sure how many people use the tech in precisely that way (going directly from -1 to +2 to achieve a fit). 

 

It's actually a really good way to determine if someone is sensitive to face angle and start the process of fitting them for face angle (for those that are sensitive).  So it's really something everyone should do in the course of a fitting.

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When the Titleist SureFit adapter was first introduced, their "Performance Matrix" included a column (Face Angle) on the far right, which is not shown in their current PM. As I understand it, that column indicates how the face angle is altered by making vertical setting changes (e.g., from C-1 to B-1, A-1 to D-4, etc.) if the club head is SOLED at address. On the other hand, when the club head is SQUARED at address after making the same type of vertical setting changes, the far left column (Loft) applies (see asterisk). 

Titleist Performance Matrix.jpg

Titleist TSi2 11° - Ventus Velo Red 5R

Titleist TS2 18° - Ventus Velo Red 6R

Titleist TS2 21° - Venus Velo Red 6R

Titleist 818H1 23° - AD HY 75R

Titleist 818H1 27° - AD HY 75R

TaylorMade 2020.P770 6-AW - NS Pro 850GH S (ss2x)

TaylorMade MG2 56.12, 60.08 - NS Pro 950GH R

Scotty Cameron Special Select Fastback 1.5

Titleist ProV1

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40 minutes ago, HiTrajLoSpin said:

When the Titleist SureFit adapter was first introduced, their "Performance Matrix" included a column (Face Angle) on the far right, which is not shown in their current PM. As I understand it, that column indicates how the face angle is altered by making vertical setting changes (e.g., from C-1 to B-1, A-1 to D-4, etc.) if the club head is SOLED at address. On the other hand, when the club head is SQUARED at address after making the same type of vertical setting changes, the far left column (Loft) applies (see asterisk). 

Titleist Performance Matrix.jpg

 

Thats actually awesome to see, and great info. 100% what I was wondering.

Epic Max LS + Tensei CK Pro Blue / TS2 3W + TBD / TS2 7W + Diamana B / GAPR Lo 4 + TBD  / Apex 19 Pro + Modus3 120 / MD5 / Toulon Las Vegas + SuperStroke Cord 2.0

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I agree with @Stuart_G's take on this.  In theory you affect face/lie/loft etc when you make these setting changes.  In practice its not that simple.

 

I play Titleist woods and hybrids.  All clubs are either at B1 or C1.  My typical miss was left, sometimes a hook.  Whether it was a placebo or that I am face sensitive, I am not sure.  But I CAN tell you that my misses became less severe at B1/C1, and that I was (am) swinging more confidently and gained distance.  

 

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