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48 minutes ago, Club Champion said:

Not sure if the PDF will post, but I'm adding the original study to this thread. Golf Laboratories, the gold standard in third party testing in the industry, did the test. You can also learn more info about the process on SST PURE's website

 

SST_Parente_report_150423.pdf 259.58 kB · 0 downloads

 

The report is from 2015, but the website links make it appear that the testing was done in 2019 and 2020.

 

And the shafts tested in the drivers are the crappy made-for shafts from TM.

 

The only shafts that were not made for shafts were the KBS iron shafts. And if they had optimized the starting face angle for those shafts, they probably would have played just the same.

 

The best part of your knock on the TXG test is to say that having a scratch golfer test, doesn't show the benefit, but then you link to robot tests.

 

And using a robot or scratch golfer is more likely to isolate the effect of the shaft because the swing is being repeated. It takes the bad swing variable out of play.

 

Further, the robot testing, for what it is worth, shows that the optimal face angle depended on shaft stiffness.

 

Are all of the fitting shafts Pured? If so, is it noted that the driver setting during the fitting had an out of alignment pure setting, which would effect the end point dispersion?

 

At best, isn't the only value in purring a shaft quality control? In other words, if a shaft needs to be pured to play optimally, isn't it a piece of junk that you probably shouldn't be using?

 

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Hi everyone! We hope you're all healthy and excited to tee off a new golf season.   While we navigate these uncharted waters and count the days until our next tee time, we thought it might b

I paid for a fitting at CC about 4 years ago at Turkey Lake road. I was told an Accra shaft was the best fit for me in my driver. I proceeded to send 3’ friends there to be fit. They did not tell CC I

To me, $300 is not considered an "affordable" shaft. Also, since the driver fitting is timed, you don't get to hit all the options. When you are presented with 5 shafts to hit, one being Accra, and 4

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28 minutes ago, Go Horns! said:

 

The report is from 2015, but the website links make it appear that the testing was done in 2019 and 2020.

 

And the shafts tested in the drivers are the crappy made-for shafts from TM.

 

The only shafts that were not made for shafts were the KBS iron shafts. And if they had optimized the starting face angle for those shafts, they probably would have played just the same.

 

The best part of your knock on the TXG test is to say that having a scratch golfer test, doesn't show the benefit, but then you link to robot tests.

 

And using a robot or scratch golfer is more likely to isolate the effect of the shaft because the swing is being repeated. It takes the bad swing variable out of play.

 

Further, the robot testing, for what it is worth, shows that the optimal face angle depended on shaft stiffness.

 

Are all of the fitting shafts Pured? If so, is it noted that the driver setting during the fitting had an out of alignment pure setting, which would effect the end point dispersion?

 

At best, isn't the only value in purring a shaft quality control? In other words, if a shaft needs to be pured to play optimally, isn't it a piece of junk that you probably shouldn't be using?

 

If you'd like to see more about PURE or ask these detailed questions to the brand, you can always visit http://sstpure.com/.

 

The crux of it is this: we pure 350K shafts per year and all of them find some improvement in the PURE process. We never see a shaft, even with aftermarket materials, that is perfect right after production. Calling an unPUREd aftermarket shaft a "piece of junk" would be going too far, but it's not inaccurate to say that there's potential for more optimization. Is the average golfer going to reap the benefits of a PUREd shaft? Yes. Does every single golfer have PUREd shafts? No, and many people are just fine with that. But the point of a premium custom club fitting is to dial in all the details — SST PUREing is one of the many resources available to us (and TXG and other fitters/builders) to take our builds to the next level. 

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15 minutes ago, Club Champion said:

If you'd like to see more about PURE or ask these detailed questions to the brand, you can always visit http://sstpure.com/.

 

The crux of it is this: we pure 350K shafts per year and all of them find some improvement in the PURE process. We never see a shaft, even with aftermarket materials, that is perfect right after production. Calling an unPUREd aftermarket shaft a "piece of junk" would be going too far, but it's not inaccurate to say that there's potential for more optimization. Is the average golfer going to reap the benefits of a PUREd shaft? Yes. Does every single golfer have PUREd shafts? No, and many people are just fine with that. But the point of a premium custom club fitting is to dial in all the details — SST PUREing is one of the many resources available to us (and TXG and other fitters/builders) to take our builds to the next level. 

Well said.

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Do you guys provide club building services, If the customer just needs heads swapped etc...

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Sim2 9* Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6s

M6 3w Oban Purp 75g

M6 5w Graphite Design ad-di 7s

Miura MC-501 MMT 95s  

Mizuno T-20 50, 54, 58

TM spider x

snelly

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In the past 12 months, if a customer has come for a driver fitting and said that they want the best fitting head/shaft irrespective of cost, what is the most common shaft that they have been fitted into and why (e.g. higher ball speed, tighter dispersion, better feel etc)?

 

I know that each person is different and I can't use the answer to the above for my own purposes, just curious as to whether there is a shaft that has realized a measurable benefit for a large number of people.

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Question #1: Thoughts on 120 X100's vs AMT X100's vs Tour Issue X100s? I currently play tour issue X100s and while they are fine overall sometimes they feel like a lot of work to swing. I'm a high speed player and good ball striker but I'd love to get similar results for less effort.

 

Question #2: How often and when do you recommend SHORTER lengths in 3w and driver for a high speed quality ball striker? I play my irons 3/8ths long with an upright swing (I'm 6'2'') and my 3w and driver at 43 and 45 but I was thinking of going to 42.5 and 44.5 to allow a more upright swing plane. Sometimes it feels like the length of the club prevents me from keeping the club in front of me and makes it harder to hit a fade with both.

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9 hours ago, Club Champion said:

We call that a Retro-PURE and yes, we can do it. It's $65 per stick, not including grip reinstallation (if we're just saving your existing grip, that's $6. Otherwise it's $4 to install a new grip. You can either bring us that new grip or purchase from our roster of items).

What would be the cost for an unassembled iron? Same?

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59 minutes ago, Wardonation said:

You need a store in Boise, ID ASAP. You would kill it here with over 750,000 in the Treasure Valley and no custom club fitting options. I have some great ideas for location as well if you want to DM me? 

Duly noted! It is tough right now since our closest locations to that area are Portland and SLC — not a short drive. 

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I’ve tried so many driver shafts over the years, mostly on-course without a LM. Have most success with Diamana Whiteboard family of shafts, but I’m the type that doesn’t like to settle & value the experimentation process (like most regulars here)! What would be an under-the-radar shaft similar in profile in 60-ish weight class, stiff flex?

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G400 LST 10*, Tensei CK White 60S

0317 Gen1 17* & 0317X Gen2 19*, MMT 80S

0311 Gen1 4-5 & 0311P Gen2 6-PW, SteelFiber 95S

RTX4 Raw 52* & 58*, Mid, TI S400; HiToe 64*, HiRev 2.0
SC Red X2

Tour B XS (normal cond.) / LD V1x (windy cond.)

- Testing: 0811X+ Proto; Orig One 11.5*; SuperHybrid 17*; 0311XF #3; 2021 TP5x, CS X Triple Track.

- Backups: EFSZ 9* & 15*; TS2 15*; ‘16 M1 3HL; F7 2-3H; 0211; TW-X; IC-601; 716 T-MB; Lucky 777CS; WHP 7CS & CSM 400g; Sigma G Kinloch C.

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14 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

Question #1: Thoughts on 120 X100's vs AMT X100's vs Tour Issue X100s? I currently play tour issue X100s and while they are fine overall sometimes they feel like a lot of work to swing. I'm a high speed player and good ball striker but I'd love to get similar results for less effort.

 

Question #2: How often and when do you recommend SHORTER lengths in 3w and driver for a high speed quality ball striker? I play my irons 3/8ths long with an upright swing (I'm 6'2'') and my 3w and driver at 43 and 45 but I was thinking of going to 42.5 and 44.5 to allow a more upright swing plane. Sometimes it feels like the length of the club prevents me from keeping the club in front of me and makes it harder to hit a fade with both.

1. Tour Issue X100 will be identical — All Tour Issue means is that it's a perfectly weight sorted set, so this won't help you. 

120 X100 will be much lighter, 10 grams lighter, which for your clubhead speed probably won't make it feel easier, just lighter.

AMT X100: I would probably go this route. Between the black and white, hard to say without a fit, but my gut says white to match your X100. The weight will be lighter in the short irons which is okay, but still have weight in most of the clubs you need, and the profile will slightly softer with the extra steps the shaft has, while maintaining the ball flight you currently like. 

 

Keep in mind, none of this can be confirmed without a fitting to see your actual swing (since there are more elements in play than just the shaft).

 

2. Often we go shorter, every fit is different. Just have to make sure the swingweight is corrected for whatever length you end up doing. Get fitted to make sure that swingweight gets fixed if you do shorten up. Remember every 1/2 inch you cut off is 3 swingweights, which means you need to add 6 grams to the head. 

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What length do the fitting drivers measure?  What is the average swingweight of a driver during a fitting? 

PING G410 LST 9* VA Nemesys 65X

PING G410 LST 14.5* Tour AD DI 7X

Titleist 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X

Mizuno MP20 HMB 4 Tour AD 95X

Mizuno JPX 919 Tour 5-PW Oban CT 115 X(-)

Titleist Vokey SM7 50F - 54S - 59D

Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5 (2021)

Titleist ProV1

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16 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

In the past 12 months, if a customer has come for a driver fitting and said that they want the best fitting head/shaft irrespective of cost, what is the most common shaft that they have been fitted into and why (e.g. higher ball speed, tighter dispersion, better feel etc)?

 

I know that each person is different and I can't use the answer to the above for my own purposes, just curious as to whether there is a shaft that has realized a measurable benefit for a large number of people.

That's impossible to answer accurately since every golfer varies so much. Eliminating budget, you still have elements like flex, profile, length, etc. — even aesthetic preferences come into play per person, as well as what goals they are trying to achieve with said shaft. That being said, if you're strictly asking us to point out a top selling line, we could easily call out the Fujikura Ventus line.

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18 hours ago, zrheisler22 said:

Why does @Club Championuse epoxy in the shaft rather than hot melt or tip weights to build up SW?

Great question. We are happy to hotmelt. However, hotmelt will change sound/feel, so since you didn't hit hotmelt in the bay, it's not standard practice. We strive to deliver the exact club you found success with in the bay, all the way down to that sound and feel. 

 

If a discerning golfer understands this, the fitter can make notes to hotmelt — we do it often. We do use tip weights in irons as they are wider and tighter and metal on metal, so it's easier to get a tight fit that won't cause issues. On graphite, the tip weights are very difficult to make fit for the wide variety of shafts we use, whereas epoxy with tungsten molds and creates a perfect fit. We don't see issues often but when we do, epoxy is also the easier fix. 

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I've been looking around for a fitter to do a driver fitting this season. I'm in NH, and so some close options are Club Champion (Bedford, MA), Golf & Ski Warehouse, and a couple smaller/boutique fitters.

 

One of the boutique guys told me he always fits a player to a shaft first (often aftermarket), and then works to pair that shaft with a driver club head. On the other hand, I've seen some interesting shaft tests online (Mark Crossfield, TXG, etc.) that seem to suggest a proper club head fit is a more important first step. Curious what your thoughts are on that topic...i.e. fitting the shaft first, or fitting the club head first?

 

Thanks too for starting up this thread! Some interesting stuff in here! 

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Currently playing M3 10.5* with Graphite Design Tour AD DI 7X @ 45" and swing weight of D5 & TS2 15* with Graphite Design TOur AD DI8X at 43" with a swing weight of D5

 

Wondering what Ventus shafts you would recommend that might get a little higher launch without added spin. Playing in the PACNW I can use as much carry as possible for the soft fairways. Also trying to figure out whether I should order a SIM2 or SIM2 MAX in a 10.5* /15* the data below is from a fitting I did with Club Champion a while back.

 

image.png.8aa381bca51ce3755c288a2952320ba0.png

 

image.png.d2ebb2a5328e6f0cf1079e3bd4255102.png

**WITB as of 4/14/21****

Taylormade SIM 2 - 10.5* - Ventus Blus 6X

Taylormade SIM 2 MAX - 15* Ventus Blue 7X

Taylormade SIM 2 MAX Hybrid - 19* Ventus Blue HB 9X

Nike VR TW Blades 3-PW KBS C-Taper Lite 115X/ (Waiting on Miura TC-201 4-PW KBS $-Taper 130X Black / Miura MC-501 3-PW $-Taper 130X)

SM8 DG TI S400 Black Onyx /50F/54D/58D
Golf Pride Tour Velvet Midsize
TaylorMade TP Soto 33.5” with Super Stroke Pistol GTR 2.0 - Side Piece TaylorMade Spider X 33.5"

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21 hours ago, Go Horns! said:

 

The report is from 2015, but the website links make it appear that the testing was done in 2019 and 2020.

 

And the shafts tested in the drivers are the crappy made-for shafts from TM.

 

The only shafts that were not made for shafts were the KBS iron shafts. And if they had optimized the starting face angle for those shafts, they probably would have played just the same.

 

The best part of your knock on the TXG test is to say that having a scratch golfer test, doesn't show the benefit, but then you link to robot tests.

 

And using a robot or scratch golfer is more likely to isolate the effect of the shaft because the swing is being repeated. It takes the bad swing variable out of play.

 

Further, the robot testing, for what it is worth, shows that the optimal face angle depended on shaft stiffness.

 

Are all of the fitting shafts Pured? If so, is it noted that the driver setting during the fitting had an out of alignment pure setting, which would effect the end point dispersion?

 

At best, isn't the only value in purring a shaft quality control? In other words, if a shaft needs to be pured to play optimally, isn't it a piece of junk that you probably shouldn't be using?

 

Stop asking too many questions. People might get the idea about it. PUREing is shown 100% of the time to make your wallet lighter!

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1 hour ago, caller said:

I have used CC iron fitting and order.. it was a great experience.

 

I am a bit worried about turf interaction. How well does CC hybrid fitting work?

We use Fiberbuilt mats because they give you the truest interaction of turf and true numbers on launch monitors.  They allow you to chunk and attack the ball like normal turf and get the feedback you need to make the best decision.   

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1 hour ago, jlukes said:

What length do the fitting drivers measure?  What is the average swingweight of a driver during a fitting? 

We have the ability to make drivers anywhere from 44" to 46" depending on the shaft and head.  With swingweight, there's no average — on most heads due to weights in the head, we can get anywhere from D0 (sometimes lighter) and then up to the Es.  Remember, heavy isn't always bad. Force = mass x acceleration...physics wants weight!

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2 hours ago, 95124hacker said:

I’ve tried so many driver shafts over the years, mostly on-course without a LM. Have most success with Diamana Whiteboard family of shafts, but I’m the type that doesn’t like to settle & value the experimentation process (like most regulars here)! What would be an under-the-radar shaft similar in profile in 60-ish weight class, stiff flex?

Ventus Black isn't under the radar but really good competition for that. On the more affordable side, I would suggest maybe Aldila RIPX, but there are many others (Accra TZ5, Veylix Rome, Mitsubishi C6 ONYX, and so on).

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1 hour ago, JD77 said:

I've been looking around for a fitter to do a driver fitting this season. I'm in NH, and so some close options are Club Champion (Bedford, MA), Golf & Ski Warehouse, and a couple smaller/boutique fitters.

 

One of the boutique guys told me he always fits a player to a shaft first (often aftermarket), and then works to pair that shaft with a driver club head. On the other hand, I've seen some interesting shaft tests online (Mark Crossfield, TXG, etc.) that seem to suggest a proper club head fit is a more important first step. Curious what your thoughts are on that topic...i.e. fitting the shaft first, or fitting the club head first?

 

Thanks too for starting up this thread! Some interesting stuff in here! 

There are definitely schools of thought for both approaches, but we are in the "shaft first" school. Our process starts with the shaft — we match length, profile, flex and so on to the golfer's unique swing and then move to clubhead from there. Then we tweak details. 

 

The shaft is the engine of the club — it's the driving force that's delivering all your power, taking on all the torque and pressure, etc. before a clubhead even gets near the ball. That's not to say that a clubhead isn't important — it certainly is — but we want to make sure that the delivery of all that speed and power is dialed in before we turn our attention to impact and the metrics that follow. Plus, lots of driver heads are adjustable nowadays, so we have so much flexibility once we have the right shaft fit.

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33 minutes ago, Club Champion said:

We have the ability to make drivers anywhere from 44" to 46" depending on the shaft and head.  With swingweight, there's no average — on most heads due to weights in the head, we can get anywhere from D0 (sometimes lighter) and then up to the Es.  Remember, heavy isn't always bad. Force = mass x acceleration...physics wants weight!

Wasn’t referring to builds. Was referring to drivers used during the fitting process 

PING G410 LST 9* VA Nemesys 65X

PING G410 LST 14.5* Tour AD DI 7X

Titleist 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X

Mizuno MP20 HMB 4 Tour AD 95X

Mizuno JPX 919 Tour 5-PW Oban CT 115 X(-)

Titleist Vokey SM7 50F - 54S - 59D

Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5 (2021)

Titleist ProV1

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3 hours ago, Club Champion said:

Duly noted! It is tough right now since our closest locations to that area are Portland and SLC — not a short drive. 

Yes I know as I have purchased and been fitted in the Portland shop. The reality is not even at the Private clubs do people have all the tools to do the fittings. My guess would be it would be a "Top 10" store for you guys in no time. You have only two golf specific stores in the whole valley as well. This area is one if not, the fastest growing are in the country. In a business sense it is a "no brainer"... I am here to help as well...😳

Edited by Wardonation
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Wasn’t referring to builds. Was referring to drivers used during the fitting process 

So were we -- we have over 50,000 hittable head/shaft combos in every store. There's a massive variety of shaft options (including different lengths) in that number, as well as a variety of clubhead options (including heads with adjustable weights that can be modified in real-time during a fitting).

Edited by Club Champion
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I paid for a fitting at CC about 4 years ago at Turkey Lake road. I was told an Accra shaft was the best fit for me in my driver. I proceeded to send 3’ friends there to be fit. They did not tell CC I sent them. All three were fit to the exact same shaft I was fit to. Different swing speeds. Vastly different swings. I play Florida State golf events. When someone shows up in to play in my grouping with an Accra shaft,

then first thing I ask them is if they were fit at Club Champion. The answer is always yes. 
 

so my question is.... why does CC fit so many Accra shafts?

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"Some emotions cannot be endured with a golf club in your hand." - Bobby Jones

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