Weighing Private vs Public Membership

[-GoldenHawk-]

I'm 29, and after a significant salary increase with a new job and new side hustle, it's feasible for me to be able to pay for a single membership at a private club. I also have other savings goals though, so I'm wondering, of those here who have a private membership, has the quality of your golf life increased significantly at your club over your experience playing public courses or having a "membership" at a public course? Improving my golf game is one priority I want to set for myself for the next 3 to 5 years, and I feel like that may be more achievable at a course that has the amenities, but I'm not sure of that I suppose. Any insight is appreciated! Maybe it's something where I could pay for the first year and see how I feel after that. Thanks!

[jvincent]

Lots of variables to factor in.

 

If you join a club with good practice facilities (range, short game area, practice bunkers) you can definitely improve your game.

 

One thing to consider is that unless you join a club with a very good intermediate membership rate DO NOT look at a membership as a way to play golf cheaply. That's the wrong attitude. Look at is as a way to get access to a good layout with good playing conditions.

 

Playing conditions will vary from club to club, but overall private clubs are better maintained than public ones except for the very high end ones.

 

The other main benefit to a private club is that you will be part of a community after a while and you'll know who the good players/games are if you want to play in those. Most clubs also have a regular set of club tournaments, etc. As a general rule if you can swing it with work join the men's league. It's usually the best way to meet other members.

[Abh159]

7 minutes ago, jvincent said:

The other main benefit to a private club is that you will be part of a community after a while and you'll know who the good players/games are if you want to play in those. Most clubs also have a regular set of club tournaments, etc. As a general rule if you can swing it with work join the men's league. It's usually the best way to meet other members.

 

I'm a member at a private club, but I didn't necessarily join to save myself money. Like jvincent said in the quote above, going the private route is about much more than just the golf. 

 

Before I joined my club I considered a semi-private membership at a really nice public course in my area. It would have been cheaper (not considerably cheaper but still less than my private membership). However, the access is what kept me from doing it. I found out that "members" do get earlier access to tee times, but you are limited to the days you can play more so than you might think. For one, you can't really just show up and get in a last minute round at a public course. It's just too crowded for that sort of thing. Also if your public course is hosting any sort of tournament or charity scramble (which happens almost once a week at this one) you're pretty much screwed that day because the course will be off limits for the most part to anyone not playing in the event. You're also at the mercy of the general public who tend to play absurdly long rounds, get obnoxiously drunk on the course, treat the course like crap, and so on...

 

For me in the end private won out and I couldn't be happier. I have a regular game every Saturday and Sunday, the members care about the course and replace divots / fix ball marks, and I know I can head to the course after work for a quick 9 without having to fight for a tee time. None of those are really things you'll be able to get with a public or semi-private membership. 

 

[Dancin]

Assuming you are joining a real private course and not a semi private or a club corp course which is more like a semi private than private, it's all positives and dramatically better than even high end public courses. You can jump on for a couple holes at any time during the day. Your full rounds should almost always be under 4 hours and often dramatically less (I regularly walk 18 in 2.5 hours and I'm not rushing). Your game will improve at least a couple strokes even if you don't practice, because you'll be playing a lot more. At your age most private courses will give you reduced junior membership rates too.

 

With junior memberships you're not gonna get hit with huge initiations at most places so if you don't like a place it won't sting too bad, but still make sure you pick the club you will like best. Set a budget on what you can afford and pick the best course in that range that you enjoy. Definitely do not go with something you view as a little less just because you save some money. You'll always regret not going for the other one. Take advantage of the preview plays and getting to know other members. They want young members like you and most will be very accommodating if you show you are serious about joining somewhere.

[charli]

Really simple. Private. Is there really such thing as joining a public course? 

[-GoldenHawk-]

So I found out the club I would want to join would place me into an On-Deck program where I would be #16 in the wait list. I wonder how long it would take until I could actually get the full membership. The On-Deck limits me to 12 rounds from May 1st to Labor Day and then 12 more round in the off season. Unlimited use of practice range though, and I could get on a "first call list" so that I could play with other members that need a filler, and those rounds wouldn't count toward my 12 rounds that I'm limited to.

[jvincent]

8 minutes ago, -GoldenHawk- said:

So I found out the club I would want to join would place me into an On-Deck program where I would be #16 in the wait list. I wonder how long it would take until I could actually get the full membership. The On-Deck limits me to 12 rounds from May 1st to Labor Day and then 12 more round in the off season. Unlimited use of practice range though, and I could get on a "first call list" so that I could play with other members that need a filler, and those rounds wouldn't count toward my 12 rounds that I'm limited to.

Sounds like a good plan to see what the membership is like.

[Abh159]

28 minutes ago, -GoldenHawk- said:

So I found out the club I would want to join would place me into an On-Deck program where I would be #16 in the wait list. I wonder how long it would take until I could actually get the full membership. The On-Deck limits me to 12 rounds from May 1st to Labor Day and then 12 more round in the off season. Unlimited use of practice range though, and I could get on a "first call list" so that I could play with other members that need a filler, and those rounds wouldn't count toward my 12 rounds that I'm limited to.

 

Only the club could answer this question, but even then I'm not sure you'd get a straight answer. Most people are trying to join clubs this time of year not leave them so I wouldn't expect to get a spot too quickly. Them giving you 24 rounds over the span of a year also makes me think it's not a quick process. If I were you I'd try to find out who else is on that waitlist and see if they can tell you how long they've been sitting on it. I imagine the last thing you want to do is drop a lot of money to be on a waitlist to then only find out it may take a couple of years for a spot to open. 

 

I'm always very weary of any club that wants you to pay to be on a waitlist. I understand that you'll get a handful of rounds, but 12 total for approximately 5 months especially in the summer is basically nothing. If the cost of the "on-deck program" is about the same as paying green fees for 12 rounds then I guess it's worth it to try it out, but if it's significantly more expensive you might be better off looking at other options. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Abh159

[Dancin]

Pretty much every in demand and popular club is going to make you pay something to be on the wait list so they don't waste time with people who aren't serious. Clubs that give playing privileges to those on the wait list must charge or it wouldn't be a private club as anyone would go on the wait list to get access. My club is in so much demand that they require half the initiation to be on the wait list and quite a few people pay that even though it's about a 4 year wait right now. There's usually a very good reason a club has a wait list which is that many people do want to join it. Almost always whatever you pay to be on the wait list counts towards your initiation.

 

Every club is different, but I'd guess you'll get in within 3-4 years at most at that position. Ask them. They know how many people leave every year on average and should be able to give you an estimate.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Dancin

[azmx]

I was #10 on the waitlist when I applied for membership at my club.  It took about 16 months to get in as a full member.  They estimated 18 months when I paid my deposit.  Waitlist members 1-10 at this club don't have an amount of play restriction but are severely limited on when they could make tee times.  In other words, I could play as much as I wanted but it was a lot like your "first call list" in that I could only pick prime tee times that were open 24 hours in advance and off times 3 days in advance.  It worked out great in many ways because I just joined a bunch of different groups and met a lot of people that way.  I forget what my exact dues were during this time but it was something like 50% and I could use all other club facilities without restriction.  Current wait list is more than 20 and that would be a bit different as positions higher than 10 have extremely limited playing privileges although I think they only pay social dues and something like immediate family guest fees if they get a chance to play which makes sense as they are just social members during that time.

[azmx]

2 minutes ago, Dancin said:

Pretty much every in demand and popular club is going to make you pay something to be on the wait list so they don't waste time with people who aren't serious. Clubs that give playing privileges to those on the wait list must charge or it wouldn't be a private club as anyone would go on the wait list to get access. My club is in so much demand that they require half the initiation to be on the wait list and quite a few people pay that even though it's about a 4 year wait right now. There's usually a very good reason a club has a wait list which is that many people do want to join it.

 

Every club is different, but I'd guess you'll get in within 3-4 years at most at that position. Ask them. They know how many people leave every year on average and should be able to give you an estimate.

This is consistent with our policies as well.  Once you move into the top 10 you are required to pay 75% of the initiation or lose your place.  I think it is 50% outside of the top 10.  To my knowledge it is not refundable if you change your mind either as you've had access to some elements of the club during that time.  Bright side is that if the initiation goes up, as it has twice in the last couple of years, you are are locked into what it was when you hit the list.  Pretty sure that would mean that the person who is currently number 1 on our list had an initiation $30K less than the person that is last place based on the changes and pace of people moving into full.

[Abh159]

11 minutes ago, Dancin said:

Pretty much every in demand and popular club is going to make you pay something to be on the wait list so they don't waste time with people who aren't serious. Clubs that give playing privileges to those on the wait list must charge or it wouldn't be a private club as anyone would go on the wait list to get access. My club is in so much demand that they require half the initiation to be on the wait list and quite a few people pay that even though it's about a 4 year wait right now. There's usually a very good reason a club has a wait list which is that many people do want to join it.

 

Every club is different, but I'd guess you'll get in within 3-4 years at most at that position. Ask them. They know how many people leave every year on average and should be able to give you an estimate.

 

Maybe I'm biased just because that's not how my club does it. I was on the waitlist for a little while and when your turn is up you get a call and have 3 days to pay the initiation fee or else they move on. No cost unless you go forward with the membership. However, you don't get any privileges while you're on the waitlist either so I guess it balances out. It's a pretty high demand membership also since it's a solid course. We host a Korn Ferry event every year as well as a few of the major state golf association tournaments. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Abh159

[J13]

If improving your golf game is a top priority there is no better place to do that than a private club.  It's night and day.  As for the wait list, are they making you pay full dues?  If not then you could always join a club with no wait list and play and practice then when your number gets called you join the club you like.  

 

Savings goals - Obviously that's important but you also have to decide what makes you happy.  I would suggest you find a balance that works financially and not to put off enjoying life for "down the road".  So many people do that and I think it's truly a waste of the most valuable asset we all have, time.

[-GoldenHawk-]

Right now I'm thinking the wait list just isn't cost effective. I want to play a lot of golf this year, but I'm also not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination.

[RichieHunt]

My 'golf life' has improved since joining a private club vs. joining a public club.  I live outside Orlando.  As far as affordable public golf goes, I think Orlando is one of the best places in the nation.  And in the summer time, there's often nobody on the courses in the afternoon so you can get around quickly.

 

But the private membership is much better because I don't get annoyed by slow play, the course...particularly the greens are in far better shape on a consistent basis and I can better play by myself or golfers that I enjoy playing with.  Unlike public golf where I might get a tee time and have to be paired with golfers that have only played a handful of times.  

 

The biggest advantages, golf wise, is that private golf is predictable from a time standpoint.  I know if I book a 1pm tee time that I can tee off on time and probably take no more than 4 hours to play and I can plan the day around that.  On a public course I might tee off at 1:20 and it could take 5 hours to play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[dcmidnight]

Whatever you do, dont try to make some mathematical calculation to say you are going to save $X by joining and playing Y rounds - it never works out that way. I joined a private club 7 years ago and have no regrets. I surely could have played public options much cheaper - even in the DC area where they are super expensive - but there are a lot of things you cant put a price on. Like showing up on a weeknight and walking 9 holes in an hour. Or being in a number of different groups/leagues and meeting a bunch of great friends. Cant put a price on a lot of that stuff. 

[J13]

7 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Whatever you do, dont try to make some mathematical calculation to say you are going to save $X by joining and playing Y rounds - it never works out that way. I joined a private club 7 years ago and have no regrets. I surely could have played public options much cheaper - even in the DC area where they are super expensive - but there are a lot of things you cant put a price on. Like showing up on a weeknight and walking 9 holes in an hour. Or being in a number of different groups/leagues and meeting a bunch of great friends. Cant put a price on a lot of that stuff. 

 

Nothing better than golden hour golfing.

[-GoldenHawk-]

Thanks for the insight. It'll be good to maybe sit down with my SO and chat about the pros and cons. I would really love to be part of a golfing community and play a course that's always in great shape.

[pinhigh27]

Not sure what the turnover is or how big the club is, but 16 people ahead of you is quite a lot. Unless it's a big club with a ton of turnover, 16 people could take a season or more to leave before you get to truly sign up. Details are very important, like how close to where you live, the practice facility, the membership avg age and skill level, obviously cost, etc. 

 

Joined a pretty blue collar type place last year, awesome young game with numerous scratch and better players, super relaxed crowd, everybody has a good time, good pace of play, good layout. Conditions are fine but not amazing, 15 min drive. Hard for me to imagine playing anywhere else now though.  If it were a stuffy place with a bunch of primarily old hacks and 45 min away? Wouldn't be interested and probably wouldn't stay. If you look at it as a cost/rd basis it probably won't ever look good on paper unless the place is doing really bad financially or has a ton of members. You're buying convenience and accessibility basically is the main thing I learned, the ability to play 5 holes after work, etc. Obviously that is worth something different to everyone. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by pinhigh27

[cassel191919]

2 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

My 'golf life' has improved since joining a private club vs. joining a public club.  I live outside Orlando.  As far as affordable public golf goes, I think Orlando is one of the best places in the nation.  And in the summer time, there's often nobody on the courses in the afternoon so you can get around quickly.

 

But the private membership is much better because I don't get annoyed by slow play, the course...particularly the greens are in far better shape on a consistent basis and I can better play by myself or golfers that I enjoy playing with.  Unlike public golf where I might get a tee time and have to be paired with golfers that have only played a handful of times.  

 

The biggest advantages, golf wise, is that private golf is predictable from a time standpoint.  I know if I book a 1pm tee time that I can tee off on time and probably take no more than 4 hours to play and I can plan the day around that.  On a public course I might tee off at 1:20 and it could take 5 hours to play.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

there is nothing better then the first tee time every weekend and being done before 10 am. 

[-GoldenHawk-]

I may have just struck gold. There's a club I didn't think about only 15 minutes away from me, great courses, 27 holes. They have a $2,500 joining fee that is waived if you pay monthly dues in full for the year ($330 a month). So it ends up being about 4K for everything for 12 months. That's at least a couple thousand less a year than if I were to join one of the other 2 clubs I was considering.

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, -GoldenHawk- said:

I may have just struck gold. There's a club I didn't think about only 15 minutes away from me, great courses, 27 holes. They have a $2,500 joining fee that is waived if you pay monthly dues in full for the year ($330 a month). So it ends up being about 4K for everything for 12 months. That's at least a couple thousand less a year than if I were to join one of the other 2 clubs I was considering.

 

You're joining a private club that is basically waiving initiation?  I would ask a few questions, in particular, capital assessments.  Too good to be true, usually is.  It sounds good on the surface, but .. how old is this place?  Are they hurting for members?  And why?  This is one time I would think a club hurting for members is a big red flag.

 

But maybe I'm too ultra cautious. 

[-GoldenHawk-]

51 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

You're joining a private club that is basically waiving initiation?  I would ask a few questions, in particular, capital assessments.  Too good to be true, usually is.  It sounds good on the surface, but .. how old is this place?  Are they hurting for members?  And why?  This is one time I would think a club hurting for members is a big red flag.

 

But maybe I'm too ultra cautious. 

Worth looking into for sure. I guess what are the main questions I need to be asking? He told me they have about 360-some family memberships, 125-150 of which are "under 35" memberships.

The same GM has been there for more than 6 years and in 2013 this course earned course of the year in my state.

Edited March 3, 2021 by -GoldenHawk-

[Dancin]

Ask what the membership cap is. Guessing it is much higher than the 360 they currently have. Waiving initiation in exchange for paying a year of dues up front isn't unheard of for a course on a membership push especially for Junior members and it's unlikely they would go under within the year, so that's a no lose situation for you. If you don't like the course after a year, you're out nothing.

 

Take the time to fully read the membership contract though to make sure there are no surprises.

[Abh159]

2 hours ago, -GoldenHawk- said:

Worth looking into for sure. I guess what are the main questions I need to be asking?

The main one off the top of my head would be asking about any upcoming projects. No initiation fee is great, but you don’t want to get hit with a $5k assessment in 6 months because they decide to renovate the clubhouse or redo all the bunkers. 
 

Based on that “waived with 12 months of dues thing” I’d venture to guess they have a fair amount of people join and then leave within the same year. If that’s the case I’d try to dig a bit more into that also and see if there is a reason why it’s happening. 

[dmecca2]

I did private membership for 2 years at a nice club in my area. Practice facility is top notch and course quality was fantastic. Unfortunately, life events happened and I can't afford private membership anymore, but another public course near me offers a "membership" that I did last year and plan to do again this year. So for about 900 a year, you get discounted cart rates, range access, able to play in club tournaments, and the club blocks off morning tee times for members only on weekends (which are when the members play their money games).

 

The problem is what you would expect from a private vs public golf. If I want to play 9 holes after work during the week, I have to contend with the leagues they allow. While on the private course, many times I would have the course to myself. 

[cristphoto]

A private course will have better conditions and amenities.  Its also a lifestyle vs just a golf course to play. Golf, tennis, exercise, quality dining, pool, etc. Members will fix divots, ball marks, rake traps whereas public courses its a crap shoot.  Pace of play is better too. No loud radios or poor behavior (members police themselves or continued violators are reviewed by the board).  Public courses seldom do this as they don't want to scare away customers.  You make long term friends and business connections at a club and that doesn't really happen at the publics.  

[RichieHunt]

20 hours ago, cassel191919 said:

there is nothing better then the first tee time every weekend and being done before 10 am. 

 

Unless you're not a morning person...example: me.

 

 

 

 

RH

[DonatelloNobodie]

The important thing is the group of people that you play with.  If you have an enjoyable group that plays daily fee courses, stick with that.  You can't beat the freedom of having multiple course to choose from, and to play wherever the conditions and customer service are best.

 

That said, a private has the advantage of conditioning, pace of play, availability of times, and social activities.  You'll also develop a group of regular players that enjoy each other's company.

 

A few words of caution.  Initiation fee is a cost that's gone forever, should you move, decide to change courses, or should the course get sold or go bankrupt.  Despite "refundable" initiation promises, the courts are full of people trying to get their refunds.  A local club went chapter 11, taking with it the $50K initiation fees of members.  My neighbor was a member for 2 year.  He lost big money.  Many clubs are struggling, for sale, closing, or raising dues and assessments.  If the club won't share financials with you prior to joining, run!  Also, be aware that you initiation fee locks you into living with future dues increases or assessments, or abandoning it and moving on.  In hard times, daily fee courses are happy to have your business, while at a private, you are on the hook to cover cost shortfalls.

 

You'll pay for non-golf amenities, like pools, tennis, dining, fitness centers at a private  If you and your family will use them, great.  Otherwise you're paying for something that you don't need.  Watch for mandatory monthly dining charges.

 

I was a member of privates for 25 years. I now play daily fees with a regular group and a league after relocating from my last private.

[-GoldenHawk-]

I think we are going to go check out the club I am considering this evening. And then I may go out by myself mid-morning or lunchtime one of these days to see what the traffic is like. Still haven't decided on private vs playing public courses this year, but I'm looking forward to checking out this club. I really want to dedicate time to lots of practice and lots of play, and I think I can only achieve that in my area at a private club. Most of the nice public courses in my city don't have a good range, if any.