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Too much spin - adjust loft or flex?


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My driver swing speed is currently around 105mph, attack angle around 2°, but carry capping out around 230 yrds with backspin of 3,000 - 3,500. Flight is pretty straight, not much side-spin.

 

Would you recommend to lower loft (from 10.5° to 9°) or move to a stiffer shaft (current driver is regular)?

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In theory, (with a robot hitting) changing the shaft stiffness profile can effect the dynamic loft a little bit.  But the reality is that it can be very unpredictable and/or unreliable.   First of all

Loft loft loft!   Go to 9 degrees in your current head.   As the folks from TXG say: Shafts don't spin.   What head do you play?  Head design also influences spin, so mov

OP, I can almost certainly predict this is an impact issue or a dynamic loft issue that requires primarily a swing fix, not an equipment fix (although equipment can help a bit).

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Loft loft loft!

 

Go to 9 degrees in your current head.

 

As the folks from TXG say: Shafts don't spin.

 

What head do you play?  Head design also influences spin, so moving to a head (also in 9 degrees) that has a lower spin profile than your current driver is another possible option

 

Another piece of the puzzle is strike location.  If you are hitting it low on the face, the ball will launch lower and spin more relative to both neutral and high strikes.

Edited by jlukes
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Just now, Twists said:

For the test today I was using a Ping G425, results similar to my Ping.

 

9* head definitely, potentially even into an LST version  

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1 hour ago, Twists said:

My driver swing speed is currently around 105mph, attack angle around 2°, but carry capping out around 230 yrds with backspin of 3,000 - 3,500. Flight is pretty straight, not much side-spin.

 

Would you recommend to lower loft (from 10.5° to 9°) or move to a stiffer shaft (current driver is regular)?

 

First step is to find out if it really is a loft issue.    The biggest factor (by far) in determining how much spin you get is the face impact location.   If you have a problem with that impact location, the spin will stay high no matter what you do with the loft.  Use foot powder spray to check the impact location and consistency.    If it's not at or really slightly above center, then you need to work on getting it up.

 

Second biggest cause of high spin is too much dynamic loft delivered at impact (basically too much reverse shaft lean or hands too far behind the ball at impact).   This is a common occurrence for ams who try to blindly follow the "advice" that hitting up on the ball should give more distance.  It's not a bad concept but it's valid ONLY if you can increase the AoA without also increasing the dynamic loft.  Unfortunately that's much easier said than done.   Basically this is really a swing issue although changing the static loft can help a little bit, don't expect it to be a major fix.   However sometimes playing around with tee height and ball position might help reduce that dynamic loft a bit as well as changing the head static loft.

Edited by Stuart_G
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For your reference.

Ping Optimal Driver Launch Chart.jpg

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I don’t understand the modern discussion of spin, perhaps a result of all the launch monitors?  In my learning days spin was something you wanted with your irons to hold firm greens, and something less desired as side spin off a driver. 
 

Now there’s low spin woods and balls.  From looking at the Ping chart the less spin the better for distance w a driver. Is there a point when spin can be too low, robbing distance?  Maybe causing a ball to fly erratically and fall prematurely from the sky?

 

Sorry to be so uninformed here. I’m sure this has been discussed but I can’t recall seeing it. 
 

Thx. Jon 

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3 minutes ago, Duct Tape said:

I don’t understand the modern discussion of spin, perhaps a result of all the launch monitors?  In my learning days spin was something you wanted with your irons to hold firm greens, and something less desired as side spin off a driver. 
 

Now there’s low spin woods and balls.  From looking at the Ping chart the less spin the better for distance w a driver. Is there a point when spin can be too low, robbing distance?  Maybe causing a ball to fly erratically and fall prematurely from the sky?

 

Sorry to be so uninformed here. I’m sure this has been discussed but I can’t recall seeing it. 
 

Thx. Jon 

100% you can have too little spin. I struggled with this with driver at the end of the last year while working on shallowing the club better. Would hit a solid shot that knuckleballed out of the air. Moved the weights back in my driver and lengthened it a tad for more spin.

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OP, I can almost certainly predict this is an impact issue or a dynamic loft issue that requires primarily a swing fix, not an equipment fix (although equipment can help a bit).

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Glide 3.0 (51.13SS, 55.13SS, 60.06TS), Project X 6.5 Blackout, Red Dot

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1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

First step is to find out if it really is a loft issue.    The biggest factor (by far) in determining how much spin you get is the face impact location.   If you have a problem with that impact location, the spin will stay high no matter what you do with the loft.  Use foot powder spray to check the impact location and consistency.    If it's not at or really slightly above center, then you need to work on getting it up.

 

Second biggest cause of high spin is too much dynamic loft delivered at impact (basically too much reverse shaft lean or hands too far behind the ball at impact).   This is a common occurrence for ams who try to blindly follow the "advice" that hitting up on the ball should give more distance.  It's not a bad concept but it's valid ONLY if you can increase the AoA without also increasing the dynamic loft.  Unfortunately that's much easier said than done.   Basically this is really a swing issue although changing the static loft can help a little bit, don't expect it to be a major fix.   However sometimes playing around with tee height and ball position might help reduce that dynamic loft a bit as well as changing the head static loft.

Just two  quick questions,  could a player benefit from changing golf balls, and a stiffer tipped shaft ?  Could the stiffer tipped shaft lower the dynamic loft at impact ?



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1 hour ago, puttingmatt said:

Just two  quick questions,  could a player benefit from changing golf balls, and a stiffer tipped shaft ?  Could the stiffer tipped shaft lower the dynamic loft at impact ?

 

In theory, (with a robot hitting) changing the shaft stiffness profile can effect the dynamic loft a little bit.  But the reality is that it can be very unpredictable and/or unreliable.   First of all, the realization of the shaft launch characteristics depend on mechanics.  The earlier the release and/or the slower the speed relative to the overall stiffness, the less the shaft will influence the dynamic loft.   Second those shaft launch 'characteristics' assume that the change in feel from the shaft wont effect the swing in any way.   For a lot of people, the feel does help drive certain aspects of the swing: tempo, rhythm, release timing, sequencing of the body, etc...   Bottom line, change the feel from the shaft from what a player is used to and anything (or nothing) can happen to the results.   And not just spin.  It can effect consistency and shot shape as well.  And even if that change is for the better, there is no guarantee that the results wont change (or revert) after the player has some time and 'gets used to' the new feel from the new shaft.   

 

So generally it's best to pick the shaft based on the feel and the consistency of the results and not on the launch and spin.  Then use head loft to dial in or tweak the launch/spin numbers - but only after the playing length, shaft weight, and swing weight have been dialed in.

 

With modern balls, it might some but the biggest difference in spin tends to be the short game and maybe a bit with the irons,  less of a variation with driver.  But you never know until you try.  And since balls are much cheaper than most shafts and heads, it's certainly one of the less expensive experiments to try.  I'm personally more a fan of picking the ball for feel and performance on and around the green (and cost) but to each his own.

Edited by Stuart_G
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2 hours ago, Duct Tape said:

I don’t understand the modern discussion of spin, perhaps a result of all the launch monitors?  In my learning days spin was something you wanted with your irons to hold firm greens, and something less desired as side spin off a driver. 
 

Now there’s low spin woods and balls.  From looking at the Ping chart the less spin the better for distance w a driver. Is there a point when spin can be too low, robbing distance?  Maybe causing a ball to fly erratically and fall prematurely from the sky?

 

Sorry to be so uninformed here. I’m sure this has been discussed but I can’t recall seeing it. 
 

Thx. Jon 

 

Actually it sounds to me like you understand it quite well.

 

And yes, what b.mattay said. You CAN have too little spin. 👍

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5 hours ago, Twists said:

My driver swing speed is currently around 105mph, attack angle around 2°, but carry capping out around 230 yrds with backspin of 3,000 - 3,500. Flight is pretty straight, not much side-spin.

 

Would you recommend to lower loft (from 10.5° to 9°) or move to a stiffer shaft (current driver is regular)?

What was your launch angle to go along with that spin rate?

 

What was your ball speed to go along with that club speed?

 

Did you put impact tape on the face to see what your strike patterns look like? 

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5 hours ago, Twists said:

Very interesting.. will test a Ryoma Maxima II tomorrow, which should be low-spin, if this can have so much effect.

 

Here's a tool that's kinda fun to mess around with.

 

Something's not quite right with the specs you do give and, as others have asked, ball speed and launch angle are needed.

 

Approximating some things such as your launch angle and "reverse engineering" your numbers, gives a ball speed of only 144. IF your swing speed is really 105, that would indicate poor strikes.

 

That smash factor is only around 1.37 (BS / SS). So either you're not swinging at 105 or the strikes are not centered.

 

With 105 SS and 1.5 SF ("perfect" contact), carry should be around 2.5 times SS, right around 260 yards.

 

Below is a flightscope pic of said contact with a LA of 14* (common) and a spin rate of 900 LESS than you say you spin it.

 

https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

1713734030_WRXTWIST.png.3f451b5b57a1770a93796df2030f6c23.png

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