Need some opinions on my swing.

[clevited]

I don't really like posting videos of my swing in public forums but I am finding it difficult to find help and I know there are quite a few knowledgeable people that might help me go in the right direction. (I don't have the money for regular lessons, hence I am posting here for the time being).

 

First, a little context.

 

-I am almost 100% self taught

 

-Used to have aspirations to get into long drive which is where a lot of my extreme numbers came from.

 

-My flaws/quirks as I see them:  I have an extremely strong grip (left hand 3 o'clock on the grip), I early extend sometimes quite badly, I tend to hit a lot of heel shots and I know my club head moves outward the harder I swing (see video, would have almost completely missed a ball on that one but that was as hard as I could swing though I wasn't aiming at anything), I have an extremely inside out swing path, I tend to get the shanks with irons, and I often thin them whether it be off a tee or turf, I stall/slide my hips and struggle to figure out how to keep them going left (have tried so many things including some tips from Monte in the past).  

 

-My assets/pros as I see them: I have decent speed for desk jockey a lot of which cannot be utilized as my swing currently stands, I have pretty much maximized driver numbers when I can time my early extension and face closure just right, I can hit all my clubs well with a controllable push draw when I am having a good day (due to timing my EE well mostly I think).  

 

-Goals:  I don't care to be a scratch golfer or anything like that, I would just like to gain the ability to know where the ball is going more often than not and improve my contact without have to have a great day of timing my early extension which is really hard to do imo.  I also ideally don't want to change my grip unless it is clear I am physically unable to do what I need to do to improve my contact and shot shape.  Lastly, I want to eventually be able to swing full tilt and make reasonable contact as I am starting to want to pursue long drive again (at least on a local scale).  Currently I can't even come close to realizing full speed with a ball in front of me and I know why, I would almost completely miss the ball as my swing currently stands. My old brain I suspect senses this, and automatically slows me down.

 

-Included is data from a few of what I would consider, as good as I can currently do drives, and a practice swing from a speed training session (without a ball).

 

 

[sprcoop]

I'm sure the first advice given will be post a swing hitting a ball.  Ball no ball is night and day most of the time.  I know it is for me.

[clevited]

7 minutes ago, sprcoop said:

I'm sure the first advice given will be post a swing hitting a ball.  Ball no ball is night and day most of the time.  I know it is for me.

 

Yeah, you are right.  I will be hitting some balls tonight, should be able to get a video.

[Krt22]

Based on your angle of attack, path, and self professed diagnosis of EE and shanks, you have way too much away tilt from the target. Great speed but those numbers have army golf written all over it. If you really want to play better golf, I'd start with Monte's efficient swing series, starting with the take away and backswing.  You can probably generate just as much speed (or more ) with less moving parts. 

[clevited]

4 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Based on your angle of attack, path, and self professed diagnosis of EE and shanks, you have way too much away tilt from the target. Great speed but those numbers have army golf written all over it. If you really want to play better golf, I'd start with Monte's efficient swing series, starting with the take away and backswing.  You can probably generate just as much speed (or more ) with less moving parts. 

 

Yeah, I often end up with a lot of weight on my back foot post impact.  I definitely have a lot of tilt at address.  Hadn't checked Monte's website in quite a long time, will take a look at buying the vid, thanks.

[glk]

Going to have to fix setup.   You currently stand pretty much straight up and turn horizontal - you have ee but little cause you are already standing up.   So getting a better setup posture is step one then learning to turn on good angles is step two.   

[clevited]

12 minutes ago, glk said:

Going to have to fix setup.   You currently stand pretty much straight up and turn horizontal - you have ee but little cause you are already standing up.   So getting a better setup posture is step one then learning to turn on good angles is step two.   

Good observation.  I have had a feeling I might be too upright and that leads to some bad things.  I will make a note of that and see if I can improve it, thank you.

[clevited]

Here is swing with ball. 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

There are 2 choices here.

 

1.  Keep smashing it and just enjoy the game.

2.  You need wholesale changes.

 

I don’t say #2 too often, but you can’t just make one subtle change to this, or you’ll get worse.

 

The underlying issue is the grip.  It’s so strong, any attempt to “normalize” this swing, will be a disaster with that grip.  All of the issues you have are a direct result of compensating for that grip.  Including not being bent over enough and the fact hip turn, which is level to your address angle.

 

The changes would entail grip and forward bend change, getting the right elbow deeper sooner, shortening the backswing and getting the center of mass of the club working in a completely different et direction.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by MonteScheinblum

[clevited]

15 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

There are 2 choices here.

 

1.  Keep smashing it and just enjoy the game.

2.  You need wholesale changes.

 

I don’t say #2 too often, but you can’t just make one subtle change to this, or you’ll get worse.

 

The underlying issue is the grip.  It’s so strong, any attempt to “normalize” this swing, will be a disaster with that grip.  All of the issues you have are a direct result of compensating for that grip.  Including not being bent over enough and the fact hip turn, which is level to your address angle.

 

The changes would entail grip and forward bend change, getting the right elbow deeper sooner, shortening the backswing and getting the center of mass of the club working in a completely different et direction.

 

 

Thanks Monte.  I appreciate the honesty there.  I am not surprised by it at all either.  I have had suspicions that it could be my root cause for my many struggles.  As you know, grip is tough to change.  Do you have a suggestion for a tipping point grip wise that I might try to migrate towards that would make the other changes I need make have a better chance of success? All the way to nuetral or left hand 2 o'clock, 1 o'clock?

 

[MonteScheinblum]

It’s so strong you will struggle too much making a change that drastic.  Do it a little at a time.

[glk]

8 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

It’s so strong you will struggle too much making a change that drastic.  Do it a little at a time.

Ditto this.   Have to have a long term view - years.  And frankly most folks on here need to think years and  not one lesson, a few range sessions, etc.

the 1% better every day attitude.  
 

consider a 30 minute online live lesson with monte.  $90.   Just doing one lesson every 6 to 9 months or even a year would significantly improve the odds of actually making good improvements versus working by yourself.  Trial and error by oneself is a most difficult if not impossible way to improve a swing motion.

Edited March 4, 2021 by glk

[milesgiles]

i had to slow. it right down and pause it, but that does not look extremely in to out, the transition looks steep.

 

Anyway, as Monte said.. Be the guy paying out the money at the bar talking about the drive he hit on 11 (I know quite a few) or have a major rethink 

[clevited]

45 minutes ago, glk said:

Ditto this.   Have to have a long term view - years.  And frankly most folks on here need to think years and  not one lesson, a few range sessions, etc.

the 1% better every day attitude.  
 

consider a 30 minute online live lesson with monte.  $90.   Just doing one lesson every 6 to 9 months or even a year would significantly improve the odds of actually making good improvements versus working by yourself.  Trial and error by oneself is a most difficult if not impossible way to improve a swing motion.

 

I understand the little at a time thing.  It helps to know that the grip, as it stands today, is the root cause for my other issues and will limit my ability to make those other issues better which is rather comforting.  I have started with moving my left had to about 2 o'clock position instead of 3 o'clock.  It is right on that border between familiar and foreign in feel so it might be a good place to start.  Thanks for the comments.

[clevited]

6 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

i had to slow. it right down and pause it, but that does not look extremely in to out, the transition looks steep.

 

Anyway, as Monte said.. Be the guy paying out the money at the bar talking about the drive he hit on 11 (I know quite a few) or have a major rethink 

 

On a good day, I am the guy making others swear out loud when I hit a drive.  Its nice to have power, but it makes a quirky swing that much more of a liability on a bad day.  Army golf is a definite problem but on a good day on the course, I don't have much of that happening and my shot shape is consistent and controllable.  Bad days, are really bad and I want to limit those as much as I can so I am ready to evolve my swing, starting with the grip of mine.

[milesgiles]

49 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

On a good day, I am the guy making others swear out loud when I hit a drive.  

 

Are you prepared to let go of this? srs question

[clevited]

1 minute ago, milesgiles said:

 

Are you prepared to let go of this? srs question

 

I won't ever need to let go of that.  I still make that happen even if I bunt it.  Problem is, my swing when its bad, is bad no matter the speed its just that the ball will maybe stay in play but most of the time, where I play, it will just be short and in crap.  I might as well be long and in crap.

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, clevited said:

 

I won't ever need to let go of that.  I still make that happen even if I bunt it.  Problem is, my swing when its bad, is bad no matter the speed its just that the ball will maybe stay in play but most of the time, where I play, it will just be short and in crap.  I might as well be long and in crap.

 

I’ve seen half a dozen guys on here last two years who posted their swings at 120 mph plus, and they all seemed to think with a little tweak here and there they could incrementally get straighter without giving up  much distance.

Imo that’s an incredibly hard thing to do especially with where you are starting from. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I never heard from any of those 6 guys again.. 

 

*not trying to burst your bubble, just think you need to decide what you want out of golf. You’re straddling two horses with this thread 

[Krt22]

Man I didn't notice that grip. Since your swing is home grown, would you say it was it always that extreme and your swing evolved around the grip...or did the grip gradually get stronger and stronger over time due to the swing?

[clevited]

1 minute ago, milesgiles said:

 

I’ve seen half a dozen guys on here last two years who posted their swings at 120 mph plus, and they all seemed to think with a little tweak here and there they could incrementally get straighter without giving up  much distance.

Imo that’s an incredibly hard thing to do especially with where you are starting from. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I never heard from any of those 6 guys again.. 

 

*not trying to burst your bubble, just think you need to decide what you want out of golf. You’re straddling two horses with this thread 

 

I will lose some speed with swing changes, that is a given, but I am not going to suddenly be super short which seems to be what you are telling me I need to accept.  I will still be plenty long and I full expect that with patience and hard work, it will all come back plus I imagine I might gain some just due to being more efficient and confident with my swing.

 

[glk]

9 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I will lose some speed with swing changes, that is a given, but I am not going to suddenly be super short which seems to be what you are telling me I need to accept.  I will still be plenty long and I full expect that with patience and hard work, it will all come back plus I imagine I might gain some just due to being more efficient and confident with my swing.

 

Not certain that you will lose speed.   And may even gain.   Certainly would help club face control.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CL8X19ile7C/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CL-cSLkliCK/

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by glk

[clevited]

5 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Man I didn't notice that grip. Since your swing is home grown, would you say it was it always that extreme and your swing evolved around the grip...or did the grip gradually get stronger and stronger over time due to the swing?

 

Grip got stronger and stronger over time.  It just felt/feels better from a club control point of view.  Obviously it causes other problems that makes the better feel not beneficial enough.

[clevited]

1 minute ago, glk said:

Not certain that you will lose speed.   And may even gain.   Certainly would help club face control.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CL8X19ile7C/

 

Well, while I am trying to ingrain new feels into my swing, I imagine I will be focusing on technique and not swing full for a while.  I will ramp up back to normal as I gain more confidence.  The grip change, while incremental, will be the hardest I suspect.  Changes the entire feel of the club weight and swing itself.

[glk]

2 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Well, while I am trying to ingrain new feels into my swing, I imagine I will be focusing on technique and not swing full for a while.  I will ramp up back to normal as I gain more confidence.  The grip change, while incremental, will be the hardest I suspect.  Changes the entire feel of the club weight and swing itself.

If you lose speed then you are doing something incorrect.    You recruit your power from upper body and not much from lower body.    You stand to gain by having lower body better utilized as well as having a better sequenced swing.     Yes won’t happen over night but it can happen.

[TheDeanAbides]

You won't lose speed by improving your mechanics. I've never seen anyone hit it shorter in the long term by improving their swing (unless they wanted to). 

[clevited]

Just now, glk said:

If you lose speed then you are doing something incorrect.    You recruit your power from upper body and not much from lower body.    You stand to gain by having lower body better utilized as well as having a better sequenced swing.     Yes won’t happen over night but it can happen.

 

Part of what gave me motivation to seek help on here and be ready for some tough critiques is the desire to be more efficent and confident.  Full tilt swings with no ball I am 10 to 15% faster than I am with a ball to hit.  I would like to be able to gain some of that ceiling for use in some local long drive comps and for the multiple scrambles I do each year.  I do enjoy the long ball, it is really fun to me and that raw physical ability is my only above average ability in the sport.

[milesgiles]

30 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You won't lose speed by improving your mechanics. I've never seen anyone hit it shorter in the long term by improving their swing (unless they wanted to). 

 

I definitely got shorter, specifically because I had to shallow my transition, as I believe op has to.. can he keep that tempo with decent mechanics? I’m not saying definitely no, and I’m not saying he has to swing at 90mph.. but it’s gonna be tough..

[TheDeanAbides]

10 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

I definitely got shorter, specifically because I had to shallow my transition, as I believe op has to.. can he keep that tempo with decent mechanics? I’m not saying definitely no, and I’m not saying he has to swing at 90mph.. but it’s gonna be tough..

Yes, but, and please excuse me on this, you're leaving a lot on the table with your move. 

[pinhigh27]

54 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Part of what gave me motivation to seek help on here and be ready for some tough critiques is the desire to be more efficent and confident.  Full tilt swings with no ball I am 10 to 15% faster than I am with a ball to hit.  I would like to be able to gain some of that ceiling for use in some local long drive comps and for the multiple scrambles I do each year.  I do enjoy the long ball, it is really fun to me and that raw physical ability is my only above average ability in the sport.

Everyone swings faster without a ball, there are no consequences when there is no ball. 

 

The question is do you want to be good at golf or do you just want to hit the ball far. Making swing changes won't make you shorter long term and could even make you longer long term, but you're not going to be swinging 120 mph while you are making huge changes to your swing (which as monte said you need if you want to become more consistent). You're going to have to way slow it down, it's going to feel extremely uncomfortable going from literally the strongest grip on earth(this is not an exaggeration) to closer to a more normal one. 

 

 

 

 

[milesgiles]

32 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Yes, but, and please excuse me on this, you're leaving a lot on the table with your move. 

 

I hope I am it’s going nowhere lol..

 

to me, it’s mindset. I’ve seen op talk about long drive and scrambles, and oohs and aahs from his partners.. and hasn’t mentioned score or handicap once.

 

I agree with pinhigh.. making any real change at that tempo is going to be incredibly hard. Vanishingly unlikely tbh