Need some opinions on my swing.

[clevited]

1 hour ago, GolfTurkey said:

My 2c is that you have lots of natural horsepower that can’t be bought and that gives you a high ceiling.

 

Hopefully Monte chimes in, but I think you shallow slightly but it’s still steep because you push your arms away and lift them up above the shoulder plane and your hands have very little depth.

 
Lends itself to steep wipes so a little EE is probably a reaction to help shallow that. Also imagine that as you continue to weaken your grip that getting more depth will become important. The strong grip combined with your speed probably keeps your shots functional at the moment.

 

Depth, does that mean I am too outside with my take-away or something else?

[KMeloney]

5 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Depth, does that mean I am too outside with my take-away or something else?

 

You are, but that's not what he means. He means that your hands get very high over your head/shoulders at the top, and not behind you enough. 

[glk]

13 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Depth, does that mean I am too outside with my take-away or something else?

yep, your hands work too away from body leading to swing being too upright and hands getting insuffucient depth - distance from ball.

ballpark depth is hands align with trail foot heel or further back.

Without adequate depth shallowing becomes near impossible and the reaction is steep, ee, stall/flip

 

 

Due to this takeaway.   Which will also make doing 9-3 swings difficult. 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by glk

[clevited]

Would be nice also if someone can comment on the following.

 

This is going to be a really bare bones explanation but hopefully you get the idea.

 

Is the right way to transition the arms more like a right elbow flick towards target (like you were side arm snapping a throw from second base to first in baseball)? That is what I was trying in the wedge video.  My usual feel for that is more akin to an overhand slamming down of a baseball into the ground where the golf ball would be at address.  So if you look at my driver swing, and my wedge swing, the driver swing is trying to slam the club into the ball like it is a nail where as the wedge swing is trying to flick the club to 1st base.

[clevited]

7 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

 

You are, but that's not what he means. He means that your hands get very high over your head/shoulders at the top, and not behind you enough. 

 

I see.  I was exaggerating that move a little more for that swing as I was really trying to feel the looping of my arms.  I am normally not quite that high but still pretty high.

[glk]

Transition.  Can see monte cast, justin rose drill or these from Todd cassabella.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIRY1WoliAE/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9upchvlBkK/

 

find feels by doing good mechanics/motion.   Trying to find motion from feels is a losing proposition - feel isn’t real.   

 

[pinhigh27]

You need to focus on one thing. 

[clevited]

5 minutes ago, glk said:

Transition.  Can see monte cast, justin rose drill or these from Todd cassabella.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIRY1WoliAE/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9upchvlBkK/

 

find feels by doing good mechanics/motion.   Trying to find motion from feels is a losing proposition - feel isn’t real.   

 

 

Tis why I got it on camera, and I absolutely loathe that falling arms drill.  It has never clicked for me.  If flicking a baseball feel promotes the right movements, that clicks with me.  Does the wedge video look any better than the driver video?  Is there promise with that or can anyone confirm or deny that mechanically, that athletic motion is on the right track?  That is what I would like to know.

[clevited]

14 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

You need to focus on one thing. 

 

Don't get confused here.  I am not focusing on a million different things, I am merely bouncing a thought about the golf swing off people in here as a bit of an aside.  The focus is and will be grip change, then going through Monte's video step by step and evaluating where I am at with each phase of the swing.  Doing the drills in the areas I struggle with and trying to make the proper changes happen over time.

 

I can still ask some questions.  I am just trying to understand the things I am aware I struggle with and transition is a biggy.  Would be nice to have some better understanding for when I address that issue directly down the road.

[pinhigh27]

The transition happens because of the positions you get into with the backswing. It's a reactive thing. The transition isn't going to improve until you improve the backswing. You can't just fix things in isolation, it's all interconnected. 

 

Fix your grip, then fix your backswing with more depth and no arm lift. The more later segments will improve. 

 

The grip change is going to be huge like again cannot emphasize how difficult it will likely be. If you put your hands in a more neutral position and hit a ball you may miss or literally hit it 45 degrees to the right. You need to do that over and over until you can feel somewhat comfortable, then work on the backswing. You have multiple issues that are more important/earlier than how you transition the club. 

[glk]

10 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Tis why I got it on camera, and I absolutely loathe that falling arms drill.  It has never clicked for me.  If flicking a baseball feel promotes the right movements, that clicks with me.  Does the wedge video look any better than the driver video?  Is there promise with that or can anyone confirm or deny that mechanically, that athletic motion is on the right track?  That is what I would like to know.

Wedge is worse.  The falling arms drill doesn’t work cause your backswing doesn’t set you up in a position to do it.   You don’t seem to understand cause and effect in the swing.   Your current setup and backswing puts you into a position where making a good transition downswing is very, very difficult.    You should at least take a 30 minute online live lesson with monte where he will get you into a good setup position and begin some work on the takeaway ($90 bucks) - your issues is that you have little idea of what these things are and thus how they should feel, for you.     You’re just fishing for positions as the amg folks would say.

Edited March 9, 2021 by glk

[clevited]

Just now, pinhigh27 said:

The transition happens because of the positions you get into with the backswing. It's a reactive thing. The transition isn't going to improve until you improve the backswing. You can't just fix things in isolation, it's all interconnected. 

 

Fix your grip, then fix your backswing with more depth and no arm lift. The more later segments will improve. 

 

The grip change is going to be huge like again cannot emphasize how difficult it will likely be. If you put your hands in a more neutral position and hit a ball you may miss or literally hit it 45 degrees to the right. You need to do that over and over until you can feel somewhat comfortable, then work on the backswing. You have multiple issues that are more important/earlier than how you transition the club. 

 

You are misunderstanding.  I don't have delusions of performing a perfect transition with things that are problematic in my grip, address and backswing.  I am merely bouncing a thought off people in here.  Is the feel of flicking a ball to first base on the right track or not for promoting proper transition?  If it is a good way of visualizing transition, I will use that idea later on when I visit that part of the swing in earnest. 

 

You understand?

[pinhigh27]

I cant tell you how it's going to feel. I have no idea what your perception of flicking to first base is. To me that sounds like a feeling that wouldn't work for me, I have no idea if it would work for you.

 

I just don't understand why you are wondering about transitions feels when there are huge glaring issues that happen before that, which lead to your transition being what it is. You are forced to do what you do, you have no other choice. You could have any other feeling in the world and it probably wouldn't significantly change things. 

 

It's like worrying about how you're going to lift 300 lbs before you've lifted 100. Let's lift 100 first and we will worry about 300 when we get there. Fix the grip and the backswing and your transition will look completely different than it does now, then you can address that. Realistically that is going to take months. It's going to take a long time. 

[clevited]

2 minutes ago, glk said:

Wedge is worse.  The falling arms drill doesn’t work cause your backswing doesn’t set you up in a position to do it.   You don’t seem to understand cause and effect in the swing.   Your current setup and backswing puts you into a position where making a good transition downswing is very, very difficult.    You should at least take a 30 minute online live lesson with monte where he will get you into a good setup position and begin some work on the takeaway ($90 bucks) - your issues is that you have little idea of what these things are and thus how they should feel, for you.     You’re just fishing for positions as the amg folks would say.

 

You don't get it either.  I am aware of all of this stuff.  You guys seem to think I am getting ahead of myself, I am not.  Please try to understand first, don't make assumptions about me and what I am doing.  I am merely asking the question about a feel as it relates to a motion in the golf swing.  Yes or no is all I am asking, not an elaboration on the importance of getting the other stuff right first, I am aware of that.  The falling arm drill sucks because it does.  Not everyone likes that one, and I don't.  Simple as that.  I prefer different explanations of that same move, like Monte's drills and explanations in the video I have.  I am just bouncing the thought of an athletic move I am familiar with and how it may or may not promote a better transition for when I work on that part later.

 

Maybe once I get to that part, it will click much better because all the prior pieces set me up for better success.  That may be and would be great, but it would be sweet to have an athletic motion I am familiar with at that point that promotes a good transition if it indeed does.  You get me?

 

It is so friggen difficult to have discussions with certain personality types on here.  Please, lets avoid the assumptions in this thread and focus on the individual questions I ask here and there.

[glk]

1 minute ago, clevited said:

 

You don't get it either.  I am aware of all of this stuff.  You guys seem to think I am getting ahead of myself, I am not.  Please try to understand first, don't make assumptions about me and what I am doing.  I am merely asking the question about a feel as it relates to a motion in the golf swing.  Yes or no is all I am asking, not an elaboration on the importance of getting the other stuff right first, I am aware of that.  The falling arm drill sucks because it does.  Not everyone likes that one, and I don't.  Simple as that.  I prefer different explanations of that same move, like Monte's drills and explanations in the video I have.  I am just bouncing the thought of an athletic move I am familiar with and how it may or may not promote a better transition for when I work on that part later.

 

Maybe once I get to that part, it will click much better because all the prior pieces set me up for better success.  That may be and would be great, but it would be sweet to have an athletic motion I am familiar with at that point that promotes a good transition if it indeed does.  You get me?

 

It is so friggen difficult to have discussions with certain personality types on here.  Please, lets avoid the assumptions in this thread and focus on the individual questions I ask here and there.

I get it.  Good luck

[pinhigh27]

You're approaching it like you can transition differently in a vacuum, like you can just have a different feeling and you can move the club differently from that point isolated. You are forced into moving the club the way you do in your transition by the positions you put yourself in with your backswing and your grip. Your transition move is a compensation. If you didn't do that, the results would be worse. 

 

Everything in the golf swing is a sequence where the things that happened before it basically set the stage to allow the things after it to happen. So if the first part is bad, you're going to compensate for it. If you don't compensate the results will be even worse. So the answer is to address the initial thing that causes you to compensate in the first place, not the compensation itself. 

 

You keep saying we don't get it, but you just keep posting pretty much the same swing. I don't think you need an explanation on the transition, I think you need to hit like 5000 balls with the weakest grip you've ever felt in your life. After that you can work on getting depth and not lifting the club. Once you do that, your transition will change, without any direct effort on the transition.  

[milesgiles]

starting to think we are being trolled here 

[Bocaji]

I think if you do what miles said you’d do fine. I don’t think you should be even looking at full swing right now tbh.
 

@milesgiles Basically your point, is 9-3 drills with minimal (if any) full swings for at least a couple weeks, probably months? With a weaker grip, and hopefully less arm lift, his tempo will get better and thereby his transition. Am I getting it right?

[clevited]

10 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

I cant tell you how it's going to feel. I have no idea what your perception of flicking to first base is. To me that sounds like a feeling that wouldn't work for me, I have no idea if it would work for you.

 

I just don't understand why you are wondering about transitions feels when there are huge glaring issues that happen before that, which lead to your transition being what it is. You are forced to do what you do, you have no other choice. You could have any other feeling in the world and it probably wouldn't significantly change things. 

 

It's like worrying about how you're going to lift 300 lbs before you've lifted 100. Let's lift 100 first and we will worry about 300 when we get there. Fix the grip and the backswing and your transition will look completely different than it does now, then you can address that. Realistically that is going to take months. It's going to take a long time. 

 

That isn't a good comparison lol, not at all.  The golf swing is a motion.  It would be more like a weight lifter that is performing a power clean for the first time and asking how the catch part feels before first mastering the pull.  This is a much simpler motion but a person trying to understand a future phase of a motion isn't a bad thing imo.  You are getting really hung up on that.  I can be curious all I want and ask about a part of the golf swing that I find difficult regardless of the reasons.  It will be helpful imo, to have some better understanding of it once I get there.  Again, it was an aside, a tangent if you will.  Just a question to bounce around in here to see if anyone had experience using that as a feel for a student, or a feel themselves and whether it did or didn't promote the right movements for them.  

 

What you wrote in the first sentence of this response was all you needed to write from the get go.

[clevited]

7 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

starting to think we are being trolled here 

 

Stop with the trolling crap please.  If you are going to be like this, kindly leave this thread.  You and I already don't have a great relationship on these forums, don't make it worse.

[Krt22]

3 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

You don't get it either.  I am aware of all of this stuff.  You guys seem to think I am getting ahead of myself, I am not.  Please try to understand first, don't make assumptions about me and what I am doing.  I am merely asking the question about a feel as it relates to a motion in the golf swing.  Yes or no is all I am asking, not an elaboration on the importance of getting the other stuff right first, I am aware of that.  The falling arm drill sucks because it does.  Not everyone likes that one, and I don't.  Simple as that.  I prefer different explanations of that same move, like Monte's drills and explanations in the video I have.  I am just bouncing the thought of an athletic move I am familiar with and how it may or may not promote a better transition for when I work on that part later.

 

Maybe once I get to that part, it will click much better because all the prior pieces set me up for better success.  That may be and would be great, but it would be sweet to have an athletic motion I am familiar with at that point that promotes a good transition if it indeed does.  You get me?

 

It is so friggen difficult to have discussions with certain personality types on here.  Please, lets avoid the assumptions in this thread and focus on the individual questions I ask here and there.

Except you might really getting ahead of yourself, I did the same exact thing with my swing for some time (and still catch myself to this day). I've realized I can literally only change one thing at a time, and even mildly thinking about something else, I almost immediately revert back to the "old" swing. When you have a core fatal flaw, there is little value worrying or working on anything else besides that, because almost everything else going on in the swing is a compensation. As you fix the fatal flaw, everything else will start to change in response, so worrying about anything else can not only be pointless, it can become destructive because it distracts you from working on the one core flaw, which just keeps the loop of compensations going. Which is why I said don't worry about ball flight when working on mechanical changes, turn off the LM, don't worry about the numbers, focus solely on making the movement change.

 

I get it, I know you are an engineer (I am as well), so it's easy to get analytical, try to solve the multivariable problem, work in parallel, etc. I have literally done all of those things myself. But when it comes to golf, sometimes the KISS brute force serial approach is more efficient in the long run

[pinhigh27]

The catch is going to feel different depending on how you pull it. 

 

You can ask whatever you want. I don't think it's going to help you. You're looking at it from the current position when if you fix the things before it, you will be in an entirely new position and have different mechanics at that position. Your transition will not be the same if you fix the BS and grip, so a current thought about what to feel likely won't be the same in the future.  

[milesgiles]

1 minute ago, Bocaji said:

I think if you do what miles said you’d do fine. I don’t think you should be even looking at full swing right now tbh.
 

@milesgiles Basically your point, is 9-3 drills with minimal (if any) full swings for at least a couple weeks, probably months? With a weaker grip, and hopefully less arm lift, his tempo will get better and thereby his transition. Am I getting it right?

 

yes. his grip, setup and takeaway are all bad, as he's been told but chooses to believe other things are more important. 

 

personal experience, in 30 years ive never improved as much as last year, in 2 months, by just doing the 9-3 at home. I videoed it several times, posted here, adjusted it, repeat.. 

 

Anyway, Im mentally checked out of this thread and wont be taking it seriously any more..

[clevited]

9 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

You're approaching it like you can transition differently in a vacuum, like you can just have a different feeling and you can move the club differently from that point isolated. You are forced into moving the club the way you do in your transition by the positions you put yourself in with your backswing and your grip. Your transition move is a compensation. If you didn't do that, the results would be worse. 

 

Everything in the golf swing is a sequence where the things that happened before it basically set the stage to allow the things after it to happen. So if the first part is bad, you're going to compensate for it. If you don't compensate the results will be even worse. So the answer is to address the initial thing that causes you to compensate in the first place, not the compensation itself. 

 

You keep saying we don't get it, but you just keep posting pretty much the same swing. I don't think you need an explanation on the transition, I think you need to hit like 5000 balls with the weakest grip you've ever felt in your life. After that you can work on getting depth and not lifting the club. Once you do that, your transition will change, without any direct effort on the transition.  

 

I have literally only posted 3 swings.  The first one was without a ball, so it should look similar to the one with the ball as they were the same swing.  The third was with a wedge, with a weaker grip and just testing a feel at the end of my practice with the weaker grip, swinging the same way I always do until that moment.  Man, you would think I would know better by now than to ask a simple question in here.  Too many assumptions made before people speak.  

 

I am trying to go about this the right way.  I merely asked the question about the transition as an ASIDE.  Please, understand that.  It is nothing more than that so don't read into it please.

[milesgiles]

7 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Stop with the trolling crap please.  If you are going to be like this, kindly leave this thread.  You and I already don't have a great relationship on these forums, don't make it worse.

 

Youve got several qualified coaches here and endless experienced amateurs, with god knows how many millions of hours of range experience, and youre ignoring all of it and at best asking things that are 10 steps down the line and at worst irrelevant.

 

I'll clue you in, when Monte leaves a thread its because he knows his time is being wasted.

[clevited]

3 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Except you might really getting ahead of yourself, I did the same exact thing with my swing for some time (and still catch myself to this day). I've realized I can literally only change one thing at a time, and even mildly thinking about something else, I almost immediately revert back to the "old" swing. When you have a core fatal flaw, there is little value worrying or working on anything else besides that, because almost everything else going on in the swing is a compensation. As you fix the fatal flaw, everything else will start to change in response, so worrying about anything else can not only be pointless, it can become destructive because it distracts you from working on the one core flaw, which just keeps the loop of compensations going. Which is why I said don't worry about ball flight when working on mechanical changes, turn off the LM, don't worry about the numbers, focus solely on making the movement change.

 

I get it, I know you are an engineer (I am as well), so it's easy to get analytical, try to solve the multivariable problem, work in parallel, etc. I have literally done all of those things myself. But when it comes to golf, sometimes the KISS brute force serial approach is more efficient in the long run

 

Yes, I understand what you are saying.  It is easy to get ahead of one's self but I am aware of that and making effort not to.  I am not going to skip steps A-D wrongly thinking I have them right and expect to do step E and have success.  I have that video you recommended and watched a bunch of it yesterday.  I have a plan, and that plan is to go through it step by step as if I am a brand new golfer and evaluate each part of my swing.  I have already identified areas that I know I will need to work on.  First thing is first though, the grip.   Maybe it will help if I post my actual plan.

 

-Keep same swing, change grip 15 degrees or so at a time.  

-Goal is to get to at least the left hand 1'oclock position and hit the ball straight (which will no doubt require swing changes that happen naturally from the grip change and effort to hit straight) before moving on to Monte's video and going through each phase of the swing step by step to see what needs work and what doesn't.

-During this entire journey, I will ask questions in here for things that I struggle with, or don't fully understand.  (this includes things that might be down the line in my process by would like to have a better understanding of before I get there if possible).

 

I cannot believe a simple isolated question regarding the transition has sparked such a waste of my time and other's time in here.  Lets just let it go and move on.  I will post another video once I am hitting straight shots with my current slightly weaker grip.  Currently still pushing or push hooking as far as I can tell.  (I have a Skytrak but it has been rather unreliable as of late).

[Bocaji]

14 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Stop with the trolling crap please.  If you are going to be like this, kindly leave this thread.  You and I already don't have a great relationship on these forums, don't make it worse.

I think a lot of people are getting frustrated with you, err maybe tired, maybe because you are convinced everyone else is wrong and you are right (I.e. it seems like ur not taking advice). It’s causing people to doubt that you are going to the correct approach (even though you vehemently proclaim you are)and probably some people don’t want to help someone like that, it’s an incorrigible (looking) act and a frustrating one.

 

I’m sorry if it’s as you said, talking about transition as just a side note, but I think even if we believed you, no one wants to bother because it’s useless to discuss it anyway.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Bocaji

[clevited]

11 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

yes. his grip, setup and takeaway are all bad, as he's been told but chooses to believe other things are more important. 

 

personal experience, in 30 years ive never improved as much as last year, in 2 months, by just doing the 9-3 at home. I videoed it several times, posted here, adjusted it, repeat.. 

 

Anyway, Im mentally checked out of this thread and wont be taking it seriously any more..

 

Thank you, please leave.  You have been rather toxic.

[Krt22]

15 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I have literally only posted 3 swings.  The first one was without a ball, so it should look similar to the one with the ball as they were the same swing.  The third was with a wedge, with a weaker grip and just testing a feel at the end of my practice with the weaker grip, swinging the same way I always do until that moment.  Man, you would think I would know better by now than to ask a simple question in here.  Too many assumptions made before people speak.  

 

I am trying to go about this the right way.  I merely asked the question about the transition as an ASIDE.  Please, understand that.  It is nothing more than that so don't read into it please.

You asked for some opinions on your swing, you got them. A lot of people do the same things and sometimes they just don't hear what they want. When you have big flaws early, there is little value in worrying about what happens next. Which is also why I suggested Monte's video, it goes into detail on every element of a good swing, but he is pretty straight forward when he says don't move on to the next steps until you've mastered the previous one. With your extreme grip, I would literally worry about nothing else but P2 and P3 with a more orthodox setup, making that change is going to be hard enough, it will be impossible if you are also trying to think about transition and making the ball go straight
 

I would definitely suggest watching the entire thing, just so you can see how each element builds on the previous one and build your knowledge base of what a sound mechanical swing really is.  But only work on your own swing in a serial fashion.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Krt22

[clevited]

1 minute ago, Bocaji said:

I think a lot of people are getting frustrated with you, err maybe tired, maybe because you are convinced everyone else is wrong and you are right (I.e. it seems like ur not taking advice). It’s causing people to doubt that you are going to the correct approach (even though you vehemently proclaim you are)and probably some people don’t want to help someone like that, it’s an incorrigible (looking) act and a frustrating one.

 

I’m sorry if it’s as you said, talking about transition as just a side note, but I think even if we believed you, no one wants to bother because it’s useless to discuss it anyway.

 

I am confused by this.  I took the advice to pick up Monte's video. I am taking the advice to change my grip and do so incrementally.  I have a plan to be successful that I think is good and it is based on what people in here have said.  I am taking advice and I appreciate it.  Problem is, I can't take everyone's' advice as they conflict.  There are multiple ways to go about this as I am sure you understand.  I chose one, and I am doing it.  All I did was at the end of my basically chipping session with a weaker grip last night, took a few full swings because I had a bit of an idea of sorts about the transition and I wanted to just try it and bounce it off you guys.  Instead of intelligent conversation regarding that one question, I instead receive assumptions that I am going off plan to tackle something I am not yet set up for success in.  I merely wanted an idea if that might be a good athletic motion to use once I address that issue.  

 

I ask that people in here first attempt to understand, don't make assumptions about me.  This is a forum not a personal conversation where you can fully appreciate context and tone.  You have to work at that.  I want a productive discussion in here and pick the brains of people who are also interested in this endeavor and have knowledge to share.  If I don't take your advice, don't be offended.  I won't be able to take everyone's even though they may all be valid or have worked for you.