"giving the mini tours a try"/the new dead money

[me05501]

32 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

In order to really be able to compete as a pro, you have to be shooting in mid-60s nearly every time you tee it up on your home course (nearly blind-folded) that is over 7000 yards and a difficult track. Even the mini-tours have notable names now. On the Golden Tour (California) Matt Gogel in on the money list. One PGA tour win and 6 Nike tour wins. So, you are competing against guys like that. 

 

However, the mini-tours don't really care if players are not up to par to compete because they just look at them as "donations". The more players coughing up the entry fees, the better for the mini tours. Generally the mini-tours are lacking of players and money.

 

Not to mention you need to be able to do so while playing the most aggressive lines your course offers! Cut every corner, go for every forced carry, you name it. 

 

 

[Ironman_32]

1 minute ago, Abh159 said:

@Ironman_32 All your Canadian Tour talk got me curious so I decided to look up some scores. I guess they are in the middle of their Q school right now? I don't recognize a single name on the entire leaderboard and the scores are absolute garbage, but I think I just found my new favorite golfer. 

 

I'll be riding the Redd Dragon 4 Jung bandwagon from now on!!!!!

 

 

I saw that, thought they got hacked??

 

Maybe that got can get some exemptions?

[tacklingdummy]

18 minutes ago, Ironman_32 said:

I get that. I asking whats in your mindset if your shooting like 69-70 at your home course, then going and getting smoked at mini tour events. I guess you just keep going? I'm looking at these Canada PGA tour scores, some guys are making 4,5,6 bogeys a side. Maybe you're games out of whack, idk, to me it would seem so far from where I would want to be. But as stated above, maybe its just a lot of guys messing around during practice and not caring what they shoot. 

 

I know the tours themselves dont care, it's like when a gym sells you a membership, they don't care if you use it they just want the cash.

 

 

I'm sure there are a ton of reasons people are playing. Most probably think they can be pro, some teeing it up just because they like to compete with the pros, etc, etc. Some guys are very talented even shooting poorly and just need to keep playing against better players to really improve. Others just have no chance. 

 

Sometimes, you really don't know who is going to make it or not. You have guys that were just winning everything at the junior or college levels and became great pros or never made it. Then you have guys like Ian Poulter who became pro as a 4-handicaper (not +4) and just was able to become a top level pro. However, nowadays the talent is so deep that you really need to at an exceptional level to consider it. 

[m d g]

A long time ago I played a 9-hole short course with a guy who played at a very good (really good) Div. 1 college. Our kids knew each other so we thought it would be fun to play with them in a foursome.

 

He brought his 20-year-old blades and shot 3-under. His swing was beautiful.

 

I asked him how much he played considering he had a 'regular' job in business. Turns out he played once or twice a year.

 

I was amazed...then I asked him why he didn't turn pro.

 

"Easy," he said (and I paraphrase), "When I played in college tournaments against guys like Curtis Strange and got my a** kicked, I knew that I had no chance."

[gators78]

Also tangent, I was in consulting for a few years that was 100% travel. I was staying in the higher level Starwood or Marriott properties, very good per diem, and then entertaining clients with really nice dinners. I developed an entirely new appreciation for these guys that do this, especially since it's on a much tighter budget.

 

I don't care what it is for, constant travel is *miserable* after a while. 

[MtlJeff]

People are not rational when it comes to this stuff. You see it all the time in other sports too....I have friends that played minor league / semi pro type hockey until their late 20s. When i played semi-pro football there were guys on the team that were in their 30s. Some of them just did it for fun and had real jobs, others were trying to get to the CFL (which was odd, since CFL salaries suck...you'd make more working in a bank). When i was 23 i got a corporate job and that was it--Flag football for me after that

 

If guys have money and want to play on the mini tours for fun, more power to them

 

The ones who don't have the talent but grind away at it, losing their savings while punting on literally the most important part of your business career IMO (20-30 is where you start developing the experience you need to accelerate your earnings --Try starting out on the bottom at 32, not easy)....Someone , it's almost like needs to slap some sense into them

 

 

[Abh159]

1 minute ago, gators78 said:

Also tangent, I was in consulting for a few years that was 100% travel. I was staying in the higher level Starwood or Marriott properties, very good per diem, and then entertaining clients with really nice dinners. I developed an entirely new appreciation for these guys that do this, especially since it's on a much tighter budget.

 

I don't care what it is for, constant travel is *miserable* after a while. 

 

Appreciation or pity? Trust me when I say these guys aren't staying at high level Marriott properties. They are sleeping 3-4 per room in a Super 8 and eating off the dollar menu at McDonalds. Maybe splurging for Olive Garden if they happen to win one week.

[MtlJeff]

8 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

Appreciation or pity? Trust me when I say these guys aren't staying at high level Marriott properties. They are sleeping 3-4 per room in a Super 8 and eating off the dollar menu at McDonalds. Maybe splurging for Olive Garden if they happen to win one week.

 

Constant travel on a super restricted budget is like the 6th stage of hell i think. After waiting in security lines for hours and sitting in a tight seat with no leg room on a discount airline, and then thinking like "sweet, i get to sleep on the floor tonight"....Yeah , no thanks!

 

I do miss travel though overall. Can't wait to do it again. But corporate travel is pretty sweet by comparison of course. I mean, MtlJeff is no stranger to Olive Garden believe you me

[milesgiles]

4 hours ago, Bye said:

It’s expensive that for sure, and that’s just the golf let alone living expenses.

 

I played on a UK mini tour for a couple of years, a long time ago. It’s very different having to play well 2-3 or 4 days in a row. Having a good round/day is no use. 
 

I was lucky enough to be paired with a few guys that went on to win on the European Tour. Combining that with hearing about guys  who were massively in debt and paying their entry fees on credit cards. I knew it was time to do something else.

 

I watched Westwoods first win, Hanbury Manor mid nineties.

 

Watched some other complete schlep in that tournament dobbling it left and right, had no idea why he was there.

 

What do i know.. three majors later Padraig H has a very nice career. 

 

I know its a cliche that you need to be 65 on your own course week in, week out, but its the mental side that separates these guys. 

 

They definitely said the same about Woosie when he was out there  his first few years, all his mates thought he was wasting his time, think he went to q school 8 times.. but he was absolutely convinced he was good enough 

[Creedo77]

6 hours ago, Poser said:

Now with COVID i'm not sure how many mini tours are stil even surviving.   

Back when everything started last March, the outlaw tour in Arizona was still playing golf and hasn't stopped since the pandemic started. Most mini tours have been doing really well, and that includes the likes of Swingthough, Minor League Golf Tour, GPro, Golden State Tour, and the APT Tour. Biggest thing for these tours is paying out the $ that they promise. Years ago that was a huge issue for tours that no longer exist 

[Creedo77]

3 hours ago, Rob G 89 said:

Tangent question is it poor taste to play an event if you are poor player? I mean you are Paying an entry fee or is it an unwritten rule not to play if you are shooting 80 plus?

Go look up some scores for pre-qualifying to get into Monday Qualifiers for either PGA or KFT events. There are plenty of hacks putting up scores in the 90s and even 100s. PGA Sections don't care who plays, if they pay them, thats all the matters.

 

You can find all of these scores on bluegolf.com 

[munichop]

For many folks the golf dream is like the acting bug if you are an aspiring actor. It is the old issue do I work to live or live to work?

My nephew is now approaching 40 and returned to get a masters so he could teach acting. I have seen him do Shakespeare and he is very good. Went to Hollywood but never got his break.

I feel lucky I was never good enough to be tempted to chase the athletic dream. 
I think in the chase you have to be realistic. I told him instead of looking at the highest incomes in a field look at the median ones.

When I was young I aspired to be a writer but quickly learned that engineering was a better choice.

[Ironman_32]

23 minutes ago, munichop said:

For many folks the golf dream is like the acting bug if you are an aspiring actor. It is the old issue do I work to live or live to work?

My nephew is now approaching 40 and returned to get a masters so he could teach acting. I have seen him do Shakespeare and he is very good. Went to Hollywood but never got his break.

I feel lucky I was never good enough to be tempted to chase the athletic dream. 
I think in the chase you have to be realistic. I told him instead of looking at the highest incomes in a field look at the median ones.

When I was young I aspired to be a writer but quickly learned that engineering was a better choice.

I get your point. 

 

To me two things make golf unique thought (1) its purely based on numbers (2) no one tells your not good enough, you have to make that decision on your own.

 

What I mean is, take your nephew, you said he never "got a break", thats what you need in acting sometimes. He could be doing a great Shakespeare in a local theater, and maybe no one from Hollywood sees it. With golf, I don't think someone is shooting 63 everytime, thinking "if only I coul get into a tournament...". Say your nephew was Jonah Hill (maybe?), he could be trying out to play Superman roles, and it isn't working. But he can be the side guy in Wolf of Wall Street, 21 Jumpstreet, SuperBad...its true someone could say to him, you're a good actor, it just takes the right part. But in golf you can't say to yourself, I practice all day and can't break 70, but maybe Ill catch a break and start shooting 67. 

[farmer]

I have a friend who was a legit +3-4 and won a work raffle for a spot in a Tight Lies level pro-am.  His pro was some anonymous kid who had driven in a day before.  Kid shot 65 on a course where he had one practice round.  My friend was very familiar with the course, shot 70 from one tee up, and said watching the kid was very distracting.

[me05501]

It is always humbling to get good enough at anything to have the chance to do that thing beside someone who does it at the highest level. 
 

I took a lesson with one of the best bluegrass guitarists on Earth and it was a huge gut punch. We have the same number of fingers and we both “know how to play the guitar” but past that it was like comparing a racehorse to a bottle of glue. 

[BIG STU]

5 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

In order to really be able to compete as a pro, you have to be shooting in mid-60s nearly every time you tee it up on your home course (nearly blind-folded) that is over 7000 yards and a difficult track. Even the mini-tours have notable names now. On the Golden Tour (California) Matt Gogel in on the money list. One PGA tour win and 6 Nike tour wins. So, you are competing against guys like that. 

 

However, the mini-tours don't really care if players are not up to par to compete because they just look at them as "donations". The more players coughing up the entry fees, the better for the mini tours. Generally the mini-tours are lacking of players and money.

Yep the lacking of players and money is the reason they died out around here even before Covid--- I played on one here in this area the first year it started. I think after 2 years it changed hands and then again in mid season it changed hands again. I think by the 4th year it changed hands and names again and is now defunct. I was playing in the Senior Division and we were getting less and less players in that division. The last year they played the current owner tried to get me to get up some senior division players but I could not get any to bite. The larger ones like the E-Tour out of NC will survive because they have great sponsors and good players that generates into good purses

[RoyalMustang]

9 hours ago, Abh159 said:

I think most people just have a really hard time giving it up. They may play well in one or two events and keep chasing that feeling because they think they can do it again. A lot of them also don't really have a backup plan so it's either keep trying to make it as a golfer or settle for an entry level job when all of your age peers are moving up in successful careers.

 

Several teammates I had in college (DI school) tried to make it as a pro. None of them succeeded and now they are all either working at somewhere like GolfTec or as an Assistant Coach at some DII school. Those of us that didn't try to go pro all now have successful and financially rewarding careers in business, medicine, law, etc. On the rare occasion we all are around each other again I can tell it's tough on those guys seeing the quality of life we have now compared to theirs.

 

This!  I was recently talking to a D1 golfer (5th best player on his team) and asked him what he was going to do after graduation.  He told me "try to play professionally: I have to try". This was after I had noted that most of us (I was a full-scholarship D1 athlete as well) aren't athletes after college.  I get it: people want to try, but if you are basically hanging on at a run of the mill D1 program, what makes you think something will change going forward?  Talent is pretty obvious.  Everyone knows it when they see it.  It sucks that people get stuck "trying to make it" and can't move on.  

[bscinstnct]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

It is always humbling to get good enough at anything to have the chance to do that thing beside someone who does it at the highest level. 
 

I took a lesson with one of the best bluegrass guitarists on Earth and it was a huge gut punch. We have the same number of fingers and we both “know how to play the guitar” but past that it was like comparing a racehorse to a bottle of glue. 

Ya, I remember a HS baseball practice and this kid who graduated a few years ahead of us came to visit us, he was pitching in college and he got on the mound and threw some insane stuff on us, could barely touch him.

 

Then he says basically,

 

”I’m a scrub at my school”

 

😂

[me05501]

39 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

This!  I was recently talking to a D1 golfer (5th best player on his team) and asked him what he was going to do after graduation.  He told me "try to play professionally: I have to try". This was after I had noted that most of us (I was a full-scholarship D1 athlete as well) aren't athletes after college.  I get it: people want to try, but if you are basically hanging on at a run of the mill D1 program, what makes you think something will change going forward?  Talent is pretty obvious.  Everyone knows it when they see it.  It sucks that people get stuck "trying to make it" and can't move on.  

You’re right of course. Then again I think with increasing life expectancies, chances are anyone who is 20 today will work until he’s 75. There’s not much harm in getting started on the adult grind a few years later than average. Through mistakes of my own doing, I had a license to sell life insurance by age 21 and have worked non-stop since then, but I damn sure wish I’d have had a few more years to figure things out. 

[Christen_The_Sloop]

Just now, me05501 said:

You’re right of course. Then again I think with increasing life expectancies, chances are anyone who is 20 today will work until he’s 75. There’s not much harm in getting started on the adult grind a few years later than average. Through mistakes of my own doing, I had a license to sell life insurance by age 21 and have worked non-stop since then, but I damn sure wish I’d have had a few more years to figure things out. 

Between HS and College I spent five odd years working at golf courses, enjoying a misspent youth. Either way,  you can never have that time back. The best advice I ever took was - marry a rich girl. Little did I know - working in kitchens and bars in the off-seasons - I was developing the skills to prepare me for that. 

 

So, with that in mind, I do not worry about how other`s are wasting their lives. A lot of successful people I know are divorced, they have holes in their stomachs from stress and they might not ever enjoy that mountain of money they`ve accrued. If people want to give it a shot, all the power to them. 

 

And, that`s the thing with golf - you don`t need to be the best in one area. Manage your game and your misses and you can shoot good scores. Basically anyone who is fit and athletic can hit it 3 bills. Short game, where you seperate yourself from the pack requires no special physical gift. A lot of people have gone around a course and shot a round that a pro might envy. It is bewitching. And, I can see why people might believe that if they can just get their foot in the door - they might be able to grind out an existence and keep improving. But, like everything nowadays, that is becoming more and more difficult.

[Ironman_32]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

You’re right of course. Then again I think with increasing life expectancies, chances are anyone who is 20 today will work until he’s 75. There’s not much harm in getting started on the adult grind a few years later than average. Through mistakes of my own doing, I had a license to sell life insurance by age 21 and have worked non-stop since then, but I damn sure wish I’d have had a few more years to figure things out. 

working from 20-75 expected is a whole nother issue haha

[Ironman_32]

2 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

This!  I was recently talking to a D1 golfer (5th best player on his team) and asked him what he was going to do after graduation.  He told me "try to play professionally: I have to try". This was after I had noted that most of us (I was a full-scholarship D1 athlete as well) aren't athletes after college.  I get it: people want to try, but if you are basically hanging on at a run of the mill D1 program, what makes you think something will change going forward?  Talent is pretty obvious.  Everyone knows it when they see it.  It sucks that people get stuck "trying to make it" and can't move on.  

I understand "giving it a shot" in a way; but after a year or so of not really gaining any ground, do you keep going?

 

I mean, realistically (or whatd you expect), probably everyone at a D1 school was the best on their high school team, so the the pro sports are made up of the best college players. If you're 5th person on you're team, maybe everyone is a stud, but maybe you're just not good enough. 

[MattyO1984]

Reading through this reminded me of reading Paper Tiger. It wasn’t quite the book that I was hoping it to be but I would definitely recommend it to anyone that is interested in this type of golf. Interesting to see it from the perspective of someone giving it a go.

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, MattyO1984 said:

Reading through this reminded me of reading Paper Tiger. It wasn’t quite the book that I was hoping it to be but I would definitely recommend it to anyone that is interested in this type of golf. Interesting to see it from the perspective of someone giving it a go.

 

had people recommend it, read 'bring me the head of Sergio Garcia' years ago, a 4ish handicap trying to 'make it'.

 

it was amusing enough, but it was fairly clear he was just doing it to get a book out of it and not making any worthwhile effort. Had to turn pro to get into anything, tried Open qualifying and fell to pieces on the first tee

[MattyO1984]

1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

had people recommend it, read 'bring me the head of Sergio Garcia' years ago, a 4ish handicap trying to 'make it'.

 

it was amusing enough, but it was fairly clear he was just doing it to get a book out of it and not making any worthwhile effort. Had to turn pro to get into anything, tried Open qualifying and fell to pieces on the first tee

 

I had bought that to take on holiday a few years back. Paper Tiger was much better. Bring Me The Head for me descended into all being a bit of a nonsense. I was glad that when I got it finished 😂

[dmecca2]

15 hours ago, Abh159 said:

@Ironman_32 All your Canadian Tour talk got me curious so I decided to look up some scores. I guess they are in the middle of their Q school right now? I don't recognize a single name on the entire leaderboard and the scores are absolute garbage, but I think I just found my new favorite golfer. 

 

I'll be riding the Redd Dragon 4 Jung bandwagon from now on!!!!!

 

 

I have a friend playing in this right now. Course is insanely difficult and scores are always like this there. I would imagine the pros would not tear this place up either. I'll have to ask him about that name. I wonder how he is called on the tee 😂

[golfortennis]

17 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I have a friend and client of mine who plays on the Mackenzie tour.  He broke his back last year when he fell out of a chopper and had to have surgery.  He was back to playing after 10 weeks.  He's a +3 handicap atm.  He's not one of those guys that have to play for their lively hood.  He's a trust fund kid who happens to be a really good golfer.  He told me he is seriously considering retirement and moving to New Zealand next year once the pandemic is over.  Got another buddy who currently works for the SCGA who went to Q-School 4 times.  He's a +4 and has played on the mini tours for 3 years.  He actually makes more money doing what he does now and only plays in amateur tournaments.  He's played with Bryson and Xander when they were both amateurs. 

 

Nobody else is curious about *that*?  This is where the thread got interesting, IMHO.

[golfortennis]

16 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

People are not rational when it comes to this stuff. You see it all the time in other sports too....I have friends that played minor league / semi pro type hockey until their late 20s. When i played semi-pro football there were guys on the team that were in their 30s. Some of them just did it for fun and had real jobs, others were trying to get to the CFL (which was odd, since CFL salaries suck...you'd make more working in a bank). When i was 23 i got a corporate job and that was it--Flag football for me after that

 

If guys have money and want to play on the mini tours for fun, more power to them

 

The ones who don't have the talent but grind away at it, losing their savings while punting on literally the most important part of your business career IMO (20-30 is where you start developing the experience you need to accelerate your earnings --Try starting out on the bottom at 32, not easy)....Someone , it's almost like needs to slap some sense into them

 

 

 

I have this argument with people who go on about the junior hockey leagues here in Canada and how great they are for players.  This may have changed in recent years, but the kids get an "education package" for each year in the league, but they forfeit it if they sign a professional contract.  Well, jeez, a 20-year old who has played hockey hos whole life has someone come along and say I'll pay you $15,000 to play hockey for me is going to find that an attractive offer.  

[Ironman_32]

1 hour ago, dmecca2 said:

I have a friend playing in this right now. Course is insanely difficult and scores are always like this there. I would imagine the pros would not tear this place up either. I'll have to ask him about that name. I wonder how he is called on the tee 😂

I get that, the course can dictate how the scores look. On the other hand, there are 26 guys half way through who are at even or better, and again, it's mini tour qualifier, so if you're +10 at this point, you just have to wonder if you have the game. 

[Abh159]

14 minutes ago, Ironman_32 said:

I get that, the course can dictate how the scores look. On the other hand, there are 26 guys half way through who are at even or better, and again, it's mini tour qualifier, so if you're +10 at this point, you just have to wonder if you have the game. 

 

Try telling that to the poor guy who shot 52 on his opening 9 with 3 triples and a quadruple bogey. Although he did play his last 5 holes at -1 to shoot 94 so maybe he's finally turned the corner 🤣