"giving the mini tours a try"/the new dead money

[Ghostwedge]

55 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Nobody else is curious about *that*?  This is where the thread got interesting, IMHO.

Practicing his open door gunner chops ?

[dmecca2]

1 hour ago, Ironman_32 said:

I get that, the course can dictate how the scores look. On the other hand, there are 26 guys half way through who are at even or better, and again, it's mini tour qualifier, so if you're +10 at this point, you just have to wonder if you have the game. 

Funny thing is, my friend is +10. Must not be a great tournament for him because, in my opinion, he has the game. He had conditional status on this tour last year, and before he turned pro, carried a +7 handicap at our home course. But this shows that even if you have the game, you need to put it together when the pressure is on. 

 

Another tough part of this tournament is the time of year. For us northerners, March is usually winter and we don't usually hit outdoor shots from November-April. Obviously he's in Florida, but I've never spent time down there to know how playing during a normal down time affects the game. 

[Ironman_32]

4 minutes ago, dmecca2 said:

Funny thing is, my friend is +10. Must not be a great tournament for him because, in my opinion, he has the game. He had conditional status on this tour last year, and before he turned pro, carried a +7 handicap at our home course. But this shows that even if you have the game, you need to put it together when the pressure is on. 

 

Another tough part of this tournament is the time of year. For us northerners, March is usually winter and we don't usually hit outdoor shots from November-April. Obviously he's in Florida, but I've never spent time down there to know how playing during a normal down time affects the game. 

The guy I'm following is couple shots worse than you friend; but I've also been following him for about a year. He has a website that he posts his upcoming tournaments and his placings, and its not like he's consistently top ten at minor events. 

 

For your friend who is a +7, I know things can happen. I mean, Dustin Johnson shot back to back 80s last year, so it happens. Idk if the guy I follow is a plus 7, so just makes me question what he is doing. 

[dmecca2]

1 minute ago, Ironman_32 said:

The guy I'm following is couple shots worse than you friend; but I've also been following him for about a year. He has a website that he posts his upcoming tournaments and his placings, and its not like he's consistently top ten at minor events. 

 

For your friend who is a +7, I know things can happen. I mean, Dustin Johnson shot back to back 80s last year, so it happens. Idk if the guy I follow is a plus 7, so just makes me question what he is doing. 

Just another reason I chose to enter the workforce. The pressure of knowing there are people constantly checking my scores would be too much for me. Just knowing my grandmother looks at my local golf events is already too much sometimes 😂

[RoyalMustang]

14 hours ago, me05501 said:

You’re right of course. Then again I think with increasing life expectancies, chances are anyone who is 20 today will work until he’s 75. There’s not much harm in getting started on the adult grind a few years later than average. Through mistakes of my own doing, I had a license to sell life insurance by age 21 and have worked non-stop since then, but I damn sure wish I’d have had a few more years to figure things out. 

 

I agree, as long as there is a plan and one doesn't get consumed with going nowhere, trying to make it until they are 30.   That is what I see: no plan B and getting sucked into "chasing the dream". 

 

I was a pro athlete for 3 years (cyclist), when I was 34-36.  The difference was that I owned my own business, was pulling in almost 6 figures a year, and could make my own schedule. It was time consuming, yeah, but I made it work.  I wasn't trying to pay bills though trying to race my bike.  I may have marginally faster in my 20's had I gone that route, but I can't tell you how many washed up pro cyclists I have met that never really made it big (signing with a major team in Europe) and once they retired, didn't have much going for them, ending up working as a bike shop employee or something like that. The problem is that most pros get so sucked into "only being a pro" that they don't envision life afterward. There is a lot of downtime as a pro cyclist: travel and recovery are plentiful, and the smart guys are taking classes. I know one guy who got his MBA while racing full time and now owns a successful CRE development firm. Another got his PT license.  Still, those are the exceptions rather than the rule. One of my good buddies was a pro freeskier for years, chasing that dream (and getting airlifted off of mountains) and is now a respected accountant.  He actually had a "come to Jesus" moment when he realized that he couldn't pay his medical bills on freeskiing sponsorships, dabbled in distribution of banned substances just to make ends meet, and almost ended up in jail for an extended period. He said if that hadn't happened, who knows where he would be now!  

[RoyalMustang]

12 hours ago, Ironman_32 said:

I understand "giving it a shot" in a way; but after a year or so of not really gaining any ground, do you keep going?

 

I mean, realistically (or whatd you expect), probably everyone at a D1 school was the best on their high school team, so the the pro sports are made up of the best college players. If you're 5th person on you're team, maybe everyone is a stud, but maybe you're just not good enough. 

 

And the reason that I was talking to that person is that I was asking them if they wanted help getting a finance internship or meeting people this coming year (I am a grad student in finance and know a lot of people these days, especially in the PE/VC/CRE spaces).  Once you are out of school for a few years and aren't working, those skills diminish and it is much tougher to get that 1st job that sets you on the right path.  With COVID, they could work the internship and practice a ton if they wanted, just like what is happening now.  Remote classes make course time more plentiful; I thought it was a bit of a short-sighted view but it isn't my decision.  

[PoolPond]

22 hours ago, me05501 said:

The longest player I've ever seen was also a good all-around player. He even won the TN State Am one year. The only way he made it to the PGA Tour was on the bag of his buddy Heath Slocum. 🙂

 

I've played in pro-am rounds with guys on the Nationwide Tour and picked their brains a bit. Even got to play with Esteban Toledo in one, and he's got a pretty good career resume. 

 

These guys all pretty much tell the same story: everyone playing at the professional level can hit the ball. They all have every shot imaginable. Great short games, any kind of recovery shot, you name it. So the tournaments ultimately become a putting contest. The 8-10 guys who're hitting the ball best that week are in the hunt, and the one who makes the most putts usually wins. 

 

One struggling Nationwide Tour player explained how that dynamic puts pressure on the rest of his game. He said if you accept that making putts is the goal, and accept that not many long putts are going in the hole, then you must also accept that you need your approaches to be closer to the hole. Getting your approaches closer depends on having scoring clubs in your hand, preferably from the fairway. That puts pressure on your tee game. It's a minefield for anyone who is not totally in command of his mental game. 

 

The other thing that seems to be true is that every level below the PGA Tour requires a more aggressive approach to succeed. If there are 80 guys playing in a Monday qualifier for 3 spots, you have to be very aggressive. If you want to win/place/show on the lower tour, you have to be really aggressive. If you want to Monday qualify for a spot on THAT tour you better be SUPER aggressive. And that trickles down and down through each level. As someone said, mini tour events pay three places, so a top five can cost you money. 

So right on all of this and I believe Esteban never made it past the Nationwide tour until he turned 50. The guy screwed around down their for his entire young career and I don't even think he won many. Many a player gets their first card at age 40 or so after playing the Korn Ferry or whatever name it went by. It's actually kind of sad to see a 40 something year old get his first card with his wife and 3 kids standing there,  knowing how long he's been toiling around and away from them. It's happy yet kind of sad at the same time. And so many times in that scenario, their PGA life is short lived, like maybe that one year only. As to the OP, I don't know many guys now, or even in 2000, that were out there but could not break 80.  Even the guys on the old Hooters tour are consistently shooting in the mid 60's. These guys have been killin'  it on the Hogan/Nike/Buy.com/Nationwide/Web.com/Korn Ferry tours for many years. Like Harvey told a mom once, in order for your son to play on tour, not only does he need to shoot in the 60's on his home course, but he needs to do it at the course down the street and so on.  Or something like that. And being a pro-golfer takes more than low scores.  It takes managing everything that goes along with travelling, managing, arranging, media and everything else that goes with it besides the actual game of golf. 

 

I believe it was Pat Perez's caddy who said he and Pat went out to their first Nike event after college, both as players and he knew within 5 min that we was way out of his league.  I have a buddy who got picked to go to one of those old Sports Illustrated 16 year deals.  he roomed with Joe Ogilvie and said he knew within 60 seconds the first day at the range that now only was his roommate significantly better than him, they all were. And as good as Joe is, he didn't last terribly long out there.  As good as Jason Gore is, with several KF wins and even a PGA event, he could not make it out there for an entire career.  It's tough and no doubt comes down to putting. 

[PoolPond]

as far as handicaps too, they really mean nothing and there's so much more to pro golf that a handicap and the difference between a pro and an amateur is much more than a number.  I'm sure it's changed, but I once played Whisper Rock, circa 2010 and they have the handicap list printed out and hanging in the locker room. I gave that thing a good looking over. At the time Phil was the lowest cap with a +7.3 then it dropped down to +4's and even some +2's and all were current PGA tour players. 

[Ironman_32]

18 minutes ago, PoolPond said:

So right on all of this and I believe Esteban never made it past the Nationwide tour until he turned 50. The guy screwed around down their for his entire young career and I don't even think he won many. Many a player gets their first card at age 40 or so after playing the Korn Ferry or whatever name it went by. It's actually kind of sad to see a 40 something year old get his first card with his wife and 3 kids standing there,  knowing how long he's been toiling around and away from them. It's happy yet kind of sad at the same time. And so many times in that scenario, their PGA life is short lived, like maybe that one year only. As to the OP, I don't know many guys now, or even in 2000, that were out there but could not break 80.  Even the guys on the old Hooters tour are consistently shooting in the mid 60's. These guys have been killin'  it on the Hogan/Nike/Buy.com/Nationwide/Web.com/Korn Ferry tours for many years. Like Harvey told a mom once, in order for your son to play on tour, not only does he need to shoot in the 60's on his home course, but he needs to do it at the course down the street and so on.  Or something like that. And being a pro-golfer takes more than low scores.  It takes managing everything that goes along with travelling, managing, arranging, media and everything else that goes with it besides the actual game of golf. 

 

I believe it was Pat Perez's caddy who said he and Pat went out to their first Nike event after college, both as players and he knew within 5 min that we was way out of his league.  I have a buddy who got picked to go to one of those old Sports Illustrated 16 year deals.  he roomed with Joe Ogilvie and said he knew within 60 seconds the first day at the range that now only was his roommate significantly better than him, they all were. And as good as Joe is, he didn't last terribly long out there.  As good as Jason Gore is, with several KF wins and even a PGA event, he could not make it out there for an entire career.  It's tough and no doubt comes down to putting. 

I think the idea was, in 2000, that Tiger came out and mini tours exploded everything, and everyone thought they could give it a shot. I don't think there was a huge pipeline or if the picture was clear enough back that. Meaning, most of know that a 75 at your home course is different than a 75 at the US Open. I think the mini tours had a lot of guys coming in around 2000 who would shoot 75 at their home course, or shot 69 once, and think they could turn it on. Effectively, dead money. Now I think, there are more people who can shooting 66 at their home course, but that is still far away from the tour. It's like if you were trying to the NBA, in 2000 it was guys 5'7 trying, not its guys who are 6'2 w/o a jump shot, closer to what you need to be, but still prob don't have a chance. 

[tacklingdummy]

2 minutes ago, PoolPond said:

as far as handicaps too, they really mean nothing and there's so much more to pro golf that a handicap and the difference between a pro and an amateur is much more than a number.  I'm sure it's changed, but I once played Whisper Rock, circa 2010 and they have the handicap list printed out and hanging in the locker room. I gave that thing a good looking over. At the time Phil was the lowest cap with a +7.3 then it dropped down to +4's and even some +2's and all were current PGA tour players. 

 

I agree the handicap system is flawed in my opinion for a few reasons. I don't think it measures for the difficulty of the course very accurately. Also, I don't think it is an accurate assessment of one's game and it can make people think their games are at a much higher level than they are. I mean really, it drops the worst 10 scores of the last 20. Average score is much more accurate assessment of a person's game, but even that doesn't tell the whole story. The difficulty of the course still matters a ton. Some guys can shoot in 60s at easier course with spraying their tee shots all over the course because there is no trouble. Then if at a more difficult course with a lot of trouble, the scores are in 80s. 

[tacklingdummy]

2 minutes ago, Ironman_32 said:

I think the idea was, in 2000, that Tiger came out and mini tours exploded everything, and everyone thought they could give it a shot. I don't think there was a huge pipeline or if the picture was clear enough back that. Meaning, most of know that a 75 at your home course is different than a 75 at the US Open. I think the mini tours had a lot of guys coming in around 2000 who would shoot 75 at their home course, or shot 69 once, and think they could turn it on. Effectively, dead money. Now I think, there are more people who can shooting 66 at their home course, but that is still far away from the tour. It's like if you were trying to the NBA, in 2000 it was guys 5'7 trying, not its guys who are 6'2 w/o a jump shot, closer to what you need to be, but still prob don't have a chance. 

 

But you are still saying there is a chance? If I'm shooting mid-70s and shot 69 once, I can make it to the PGA tour or being 5'7" and play in the NBA? 😂🤣😂

[RoyalMustang]

24 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

But you are still saying there is a chance? If I'm shooting mid-70s and shot 69 once, I can make it to the PGA tour or being 5'7" and play in the NBA? 😂🤣😂

 

Hey-Spud Webb!

I assume you have a 60" vertical leap or whatever though, right? 

Edited March 4, 2021 by RoyalMustang

[RoyalMustang]

Just now, RoyalMustang said:

 

Hey-Spud Webb!

 

29 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

I agree the handicap system is flawed in my opinion for a few reasons. I don't think it measures for the difficulty of the course very accurately. Also, I don't think it is an accurate assessment of one's game and it can make people think their games are at a much higher level than they are. I mean really, it drops the worst 10 scores of the last 20. Average score is much more accurate assessment of a person's game, but even that doesn't tell the whole story. The difficulty of the course still matters a ton. Some guys can shoot in 60s at easier course with spraying their tee shots all over the course because there is no trouble. Then if at a more difficult course with a lot of trouble, the scores are in 80s. 

 

I honestly don't understand how handicap and slope relate to real-world conditions.  my local course has a slope of 136 from the back tees and 131 from the regular men's tees (or thereabouts).  Other courses I have played are in the 120's.  On my local course, any ball not struck well on the first 9 is going to be in trouble; hazard, bunker, or behind trees. The margins for error are not large.  If you are accurate, sure, the course isn't too bad (course record is 64).  If you even miss once (and not by a lot), you can add 2 strokes to your score.  Yet, I play the 125 slope course 10 miles away and 80% of the fairways are next to other fairways: I can take a wild swing on a par 5, be in THE OTHER fairway, and still be on the green in 2.  How is that not radically easier? Any course where a bad slice or hook puts you into another fairway with a clear shot to the green is simply more forgiving, and far more than a stroke or 2's worth.  On my local course, everyone who plays there and that can be a bit wild say that they add 5-7 strokes over the other open courses around here, yet the rating is +2 and the slope only 10 points higher.  

 

Granted, there aren't a ton of good golfers around here, but in 15 rounds since I started playing, I have played with exactly one person who has broken 90 (and he was actually under par after 9 before melting down). 

[mocokid]

18 hours ago, me05501 said:

It is always humbling to get good enough at anything to have the chance to do that thing beside someone who does it at the highest level. 
 

I took a lesson with one of the best bluegrass guitarists on Earth and it was a huge gut punch. We have the same number of fingers and we both “know how to play the guitar” but past that it was like comparing a racehorse to a bottle of glue. 

Who? Tony Rice Lester Flatt

[me05501]

2 minutes ago, mocokid said:

Who? Tony Rice Lester Flatt

 

This ugly feller.

 

 

[me05501]

2 hours ago, PoolPond said:

So right on all of this and I believe Esteban never made it past the Nationwide tour until he turned 50. The guy screwed around down their for his entire young career and I don't even think he won many. Many a player gets their first card at age 40 or so after playing the Korn Ferry or whatever name it went by. It's actually kind of sad to see a 40 something year old get his first card with his wife and 3 kids standing there,  knowing how long he's been toiling around and away from them. It's happy yet kind of sad at the same time. And so many times in that scenario, their PGA life is short lived, like maybe that one year only. As to the OP, I don't know many guys now, or even in 2000, that were out there but could not break 80.  Even the guys on the old Hooters tour are consistently shooting in the mid 60's. These guys have been killin'  it on the Hogan/Nike/Buy.com/Nationwide/Web.com/Korn Ferry tours for many years. Like Harvey told a mom once, in order for your son to play on tour, not only does he need to shoot in the 60's on his home course, but he needs to do it at the course down the street and so on.  Or something like that. And being a pro-golfer takes more than low scores.  It takes managing everything that goes along with travelling, managing, arranging, media and everything else that goes with it besides the actual game of golf. 

 

I believe it was Pat Perez's caddy who said he and Pat went out to their first Nike event after college, both as players and he knew within 5 min that we was way out of his league.  I have a buddy who got picked to go to one of those old Sports Illustrated 16 year deals.  he roomed with Joe Ogilvie and said he knew within 60 seconds the first day at the range that now only was his roommate significantly better than him, they all were. And as good as Joe is, he didn't last terribly long out there.  As good as Jason Gore is, with several KF wins and even a PGA event, he could not make it out there for an entire career.  It's tough and no doubt comes down to putting. 

 

Toledo has almost $10MM in career earnings. Not bad! 

[vbb]

This topic is always interesting to me. The best player at my club has carried at least a +4 handicap index for years...I think he's been down as low as +6 or better. He's got all the shots and is freakishly long off the tee. 

 

He made a run at the mini tours funded by a few sponsors/investors and family, and many of us would follow his results at the events. I never saw him finish in the top 10 of even the random little "mini mini tour" events. A 67-71 doesn't cut it. I don't know when or why he finally gave it up, but obviously he hit the point where he realized he wasn't going to make money playing golf. And there must but thousands of guys like him.  It really gives us some perspective on how consistently good the tour players have to be.

 

It means nothing to be able to shoot mid 60s on your home course. You have to do that time after time after time on all sorts of random courses you've never seen, all with the pressure of playing for your supper so to speak, and after living out of a suitcase. 

[me05501]

4 minutes ago, vbb said:

It means nothing to be able to shoot mid 60s on your home course. You have to do that time after time after time on all sorts of random courses you've never seen, all with the pressure of playing for your supper so to speak, and after living out of a suitcase. 

 

For sure. I suspect part of the reason top players can stay on top is the relative comfort they enjoy while traveling to events. Using private/leased planes, guaranteed courtesy cars, having access to therapy sessions and all that can make life on the road a lot more bearable. 

If the PGA Tour ever starts allowing tee-up money the gap will widen again. I don't see that happening but you never know. 

[me05501]

I read a great long-form piece David Foster Wallace wrote about the ATP tennis tour. Wallace was a talented junior player, ranked, but was well into adulthood when he wrote this piece. He was profiling a player at the tour's lowest level, someone who had to play in the weekly qualifying tournaments to try to get into the main draw. Pretty fascinating article with a lot of parallels to this discussion. 

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

 

I honestly don't understand how handicap and slope relate to real-world conditions.  my local course has a slope of 136 from the back tees and 131 from the regular men's tees (or thereabouts).  Other courses I have played are in the 120's.  On my local course, any ball not struck well on the first 9 is going to be in trouble; hazard, bunker, or behind trees. The margins for error are not large.  If you are accurate, sure, the course isn't too bad (course record is 64).  If you even miss once (and not by a lot), you can add 2 strokes to your score.  Yet, I play the 125 slope course 10 miles away and 80% of the fairways are next to other fairways: I can take a wild swing on a par 5, be in THE OTHER fairway, and still be on the green in 2.  How is that not radically easier? Any course where a bad slice or hook puts you into another fairway with a clear shot to the green is simply more forgiving, and far more than a stroke or 2's worth.  On my local course, everyone who plays there and that can be a bit wild say that they add 5-7 strokes over the other open courses around here, yet the rating is +2 and the slope only 10 points higher.  

 

Granted, there aren't a ton of good golfers around here, but in 15 rounds since I started playing, I have played with exactly one person who has broken 90 (and he was actually under par after 9 before melting down). 

 

But handicaps are not designed to "slot" players by ability so much as they are designed to make matches equitable.  The slope represents the incremental difficulty for a bogey golfer vs a scratch.  Ie., there is plenty of trouble, hazards, etc., that a bogey golfer contends with that a scratch doesn't even see.  

 

I used to think the same way you do, but then I started playing some matches, both single and fourball, and you would be amazed at how many times a match you think should be one-sided actually goes 16 or more holes.  

[golfortennis]

20 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

For sure. I suspect part of the reason top players can stay on top is the relative comfort they enjoy while traveling to events. Using private/leased planes, guaranteed courtesy cars, having access to therapy sessions and all that can make life on the road a lot more bearable. 

If the PGA Tour ever starts allowing tee-up money the gap will widen again. I don't see that happening but you never know. 

 

This is why I never bought the "training for the tour" BS when they changed the Q school process.  It was number one, to try and increase the value of sponsoring that tour, and two, had the side benefit of closing shop a little more.  Sang Moon Bae made over a million dollars coming out of q school.  He didn't need "training."  It just closes shop so guys can hang on longer.  

 

[golfortennis]

3 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

But you are still saying there is a chance? If I'm shooting mid-70s and shot 69 once, I can make it to the PGA tour or being 5'7" and play in the NBA? 😂🤣😂

 

Well there is another thread that has a number of posters saying hard work is all it takes...

[Ironman_32]

52 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

This is why I never bought the "training for the tour" BS when they changed the Q school process.  It was number one, to try and increase the value of sponsoring that tour, and two, had the side benefit of closing shop a little more.  Sang Moon Bae made over a million dollars coming out of q school.  He didn't need "training."  It just closes shop so guys can hang on longer.  

 

True, but have to remember/realize, the tour itself needs stars, and people the viewers want to see. More people will tune in to watch Rickie Fowler shoot 4 over than for a no name to shoot 2 under. So in a way, you have create some kind of safety net. That's the hidden parts of winning, you get access to a bunch more tournaments with guaranteed prize money, making it easier for you to hang on. 

 

Kind of makes me thing of what your average PGA Tour pro would shoot if they played the mini's. I don't know if it would be a constant string of 65s,  but you have to think they would be able to handle the pressure and play good in big events, which would lead to the tour. 

[Shilgy]

9 hours ago, dmecca2 said:

I have a friend playing in this right now. Course is insanely difficult and scores are always like this there. I would imagine the pros would not tear this place up either. I'll have to ask him about that name. I wonder how he is called on the tee 😂

Agree....never ever just look at raw scores in one event to assess player’s ability. Might have been brutally windy.....greens could be in rotten shape(especially this time of year AND a mini tour event).....could be a myriad of reasons for high scores.

[RoyalMustang]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

I read a great long-form piece David Foster Wallace wrote about the ATP tennis tour. Wallace was a talented junior player, ranked, but was well into adulthood when he wrote this piece. He was profiling a player at the tour's lowest level, someone who had to play in the weekly qualifying tournaments to try to get into the main draw. Pretty fascinating article with a lot of parallels to this discussion. 

 

There is a guy in my grad school cohort that was on the ATP for about 12 years off and on: I think he made it to round 3 of a Grand Slam once?  I looked up his career earnings; roughly $140k/year over 9 years, which is absolutely nothing.  I don't even know if that gets you to all of the international events.  At least golf doesn't require you to play in Europe for 1/2 of the year. 

[tacklingdummy]

6 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Hey-Spud Webb!

I assume you have a 60" vertical leap or whatever though, right? 

 

I only have a 24 inch vertical leap, but Muggsy Bogues was only 5'3". I have 4 inches of height on him. NBA should be a piece of cake. 😜

[Loki]

4 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

This is why I never bought the "training for the tour" BS when they changed the Q school process.  It was number one, to try and increase the value of sponsoring that tour, and two, had the side benefit of closing shop a little more.  Sang Moon Bae made over a million dollars coming out of q school.  He didn't need "training."  It just closes shop so guys can hang on longer.  

 

Yeah, the tour is like the teachers union. No union member is going to worry about the youngsters, they vote for their own pensions, not the salary of the newbie.

[Soloman1]

2 hours ago, Loki said:

Yeah, the tour is like the teachers union. No union member is going to worry about the youngsters, they vote for their own pensions, not the salary of the newbie.

 

The tour is owned by the players.

 

And for you young people, you should have seen it before Gary McCord came up with the all-exempt tour idea. Except for a few elite, tour players had to Monday qualify all the time, living four to a room, hoping to have a hot day to get one of the coveted spots from players in the Monday hunt. The tour was a bunch of rag tag cowboys on a wagon train from city to city.

 

McCord got his tour card through Q-school in 1973, showed up for a tournament in LA and was told he still had to Monday qualify an hour away at one of the two sites hosting 180 people each. One guy shot 63 before Gary teed off. He was only 1 under after 9 hole, so he got in his car and left thinking that the system was crazy. Only 60 players were exempt back then and the rest of the players were, “...basically a bunch of Bedouins going from oasis to oasis, from Monday to Monday,” McCord said.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Soloman1

[tacklingdummy]

17 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

This is why I never bought the "training for the tour" BS when they changed the Q school process.  It was number one, to try and increase the value of sponsoring that tour, and two, had the side benefit of closing shop a little more.  Sang Moon Bae made over a million dollars coming out of q school.  He didn't need "training."  It just closes shop so guys can hang on longer.  

 

 

 

Not quite sure what you are referring to when you say "training for the tour". To me,  the new format for q-school, looks better because I think it produces better players. The best of the best.  Before, you could have peaked and played well in one q-school tournament (grueling as it is) and make it to the PGA. However, some of the players did not do well once they got to the big show of the PGA. Now, all the players that make it from the Korn Ferry tour are very experience and prepared for the PGA. 

 

Yes, the Korn Ferry tour does have excellent veteran players that are PGA tour and even Major winners, but they still have to rise to the top. In the case of Sang Moon Bae, from my understanding he had a military exemption for a couple years on PGA tour but didn't produce enough to stay on the PGA, so he went down to the Korn Ferry tour. The real problem is there is way too many exceptional players trying to make the PGA with so few spots. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by tacklingdummy

[Forged4ever]

Prior to my health issues, I Played regularly with and against a guy who along with Bob Jones is one of two male Ams to EVER Play this game in this country and win the same USGA event FOUR times. Oh, and for sh*ts & giggles, he grabbed a Partner and won his fifth USGA title(The inaugural US Amateur Four Ball). He also won two state Ams, The Sunnehanna Amateur, Played on THREE Walker Cups(2009, 2011 & 2013), was invited to FOUR Masters(2004, 2010, 2011 & 2013) along with qualifying for one US Open(2004), along with 6 exemptions to both the local PGA event, the Pennsylvania/84 Classic and the local Web.com event, the Mylan Classic.

 

He did not make a single cut in all of the Pro Tourneys in which he Played, his closest being the 2004 Masters, when he missed by one stroke after doubling the 36th hole.

 

He is easily one of the top-10 Amateurs EVER and his 5 USGA Titles is tied for the third most USGA Titles EVER, trailing only Bob Jones(9), Tiger(9) & Jack(8), as he's tied with Jerome Travers(5), Jay Sigel(5)  & Hale Irwin(5). 
 

If you count only the USGA Amateur events, then Nathan is tied for second with Sigel & Travers, trailing only Tiger with 6. 
 

I think that I've made my point that forget one of the best Ams in a state, he was over a decade plus, one of the finest Ams in this country. Forget not being able to make a living at this game, he couldn't make a friggin cut!!!

 

Oh, and the guys that tell ya that it was their short game, their putting, yada yada yada😂😂????

They're full of sh*t, lol!!

 

Seriously!!!

 

IF they weren't a legit +5 point something ANYWHERE that they planted the peg(forget a +5 at their "home" course😂😂They'd better be able to carry that cap ANYWHERE that they plant it!!), when they got "hot" and went "low," if their low wasn't 60-63, UNDER THE GUN(Tourney or serious money game) and I mean anywhere in this country, then they didn't stand a Prayer over the long haul. I'm not talkin about throwing a red round or two down. But they've gotta show up for four days, average 70 or better, and that's just so they don't embarrass themselves, that's not even making a living at it, as that ain't even gonna make the cut at either a Tour event, the Korn Ferry or in Canada😂😂

 

No one on this board knows the Canadian PGA Tour like @GolfingBro, Matthew Hansen, who got his card twice through qualifying. If you haven't read it, he basically kept a diary of his time in Canada and the tourneys that he Played out west(He's from Cali) and it's a must read if you're serious about being in a discussion with someone other than some guy who won a State Am Title or some former college AA, lol. Seriously, they're a nickel a dozen, maybe a nickel for 20, lololol

 

The only difference tween them and the guys makin a living is their putting, short game or they couldn't eliminate half the course???

 

GTFOH😂😂😂

 

@b.helts, who posted above, is one of the finest Mid Ams in the state of California and can tell ya what the difference is between those who Play for sh*ts giggles silver & crystal and those who Play for Pay.

 

Or someone who chased the dream and still can still throw a 62-64 down when he's firin on all cylinders, @isaacbm

 

Or someone who DID make a living on Tour, for eight years, and only a shoulder injury that has practically crippled him today  derailed his career, @rangersgoalie

Or @BIG STU, who Played the Florida minis when guys could make more money in the public course money games than they could on the Florida circuit and ANY one of those guys could throw a 61-63 down, and they starved, went nowhere and got on with their lives. 

I've posted a couple of times about getting shellacked by Mike Souchak, when he threw a 29 down from the BoBs(Back of Box), which are about 3500 and change at my club, which last cohosted the US Amateur with Oakmont in 2003, so from the back of the boxes, it's a b*tch. Me? I had an even par 35, lolol. He was 61 friggin years old and couldn't even make the cut at the time on the Champions Tour!! Yet he just put  blinders on, went to work and he had inside of him the mentality of the Player that held the Tour Tourney record of 60 for decades and the Player who Played on Two Ryder Cups.

 

THAT is the difference tween those who HAVE versus those who HAVE NOT!!

 

They've done it under the gun, and while it may get further in the rear view with age, injuries and life gettin in the way, there are gonna be days when it's gonna click, when the mental movie cam is gonna replay those incredible shots, holes and rounds and the body is gonna cooperate, if only for a short period of time. 
 

However They've been there, done it and repeated it. At their level, and I asked Sam, Mike, my Tour Bud and many other guys what the difference was between those who did and those who didn't and almost to a man, they all said the same thing....
 

It's mental

 

M..E..N..T..A..L!!

 

A friggin Pro, and when I say "Pro," I'm talkin about a card carryin Tour Boy, not some guy scrapin it around Playin for his next rent payment, KNOWS that he can!!

 

All these guys that you all are talkin about???

 

They HOPE that they can.

 

Under the gun, that ain't nearly enough🤷🏼‍♂️
 

As always, just my .03 worth

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️
RP

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Forged4ever