Swing Match Ups

[ewaldbeukes]

Hi all,

 

I have looked online and on the forums but might be missing this so hoping to come right with all of your knowledge. I am curious about swing match ups. 

 

I read with interest a forum that had Monte talking about Jon Rahms swing match ups ie how he makes it work with his swing not being "textbook". Is there a good source (and if not can we start one) where we talk match ups in the swing. Ie if you are long then you need to do X to match up. If your swing is short then Y. If your are OTT then Z etc. 

 

Thanks in advance!

[milesgiles]

not to poo poo your thread but theres an infinite number of reasons someone comes ott, for example. If golf was 'if youre doing x then do y' we'd all be pro's

[TheDeanAbides]

What Miles said. It's not as simple as 'If you do this do that' because there are far too many variable. It has to be individual swing dependent. 

[ewaldbeukes]

So because there are too many variables we simply cannot talk match ups? Surely there is a degree of generalization to this?

 

I am not saying that because someone is OTT they must do X or Y but surely there are match ups that work / could work with each mainstream movement pattern?

Edited March 4, 2021 by ewaldbeukes

[TheDeanAbides]

I think it would end up being another lazy teaching concept that sounds good but doesn't actually achieve anything. 

 

Note: I wasn't calling you lazy - it's a valid question to explore. 

[ewaldbeukes]

1 minute ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I think it would end up being another lazy teaching concept that sounds good but doesn't actually achieve anything. 

 

Note: I wasn't calling you lazy - it's a valid question to explore. 

Absolutely no offence taken. I am very curious about this topic as I have become somewhat disillusioned with instructors (maybe just havent found the right one but darn I have tried). 

 

I have always felt like instructors try and somewhat put you in a box (Again, likely the better the instructor the less likely they are to do that) and over time I have had to discover what works for me, my swing, body, height, match ups etc. I am at a point where I almost want to put myself at the mercy of WRX'ers and my own research and keep working on my swing that way. 

 

Reading the post about Rahms match ups got me thinking that surely there has to be some good sources of info (perhaps aligned to the different swing stages - P1-10) that if your a bit this way or that this is the movement match vs you have to see exactly this. I am conscious it could be an enormous rabbit hole... but what it there was an extent of generalization...

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, ewaldbeukes said:

Absolutely no offence taken. I am very curious about this topic as I have become somewhat disillusioned with instructors (maybe just havent found the right one but darn I have tried). 

 

I have always felt like instructors try and somewhat put you in a box (Again, likely the better the instructor the less likely they are to do that) and over time I have had to discover what works for me, my swing, body, height, match ups etc. I am at a point where I almost want to put myself at the mercy of WRX'ers and my own research and keep working on my swing that way. 

 

Reading the post about Rahms match ups got me thinking that surely there has to be some good sources of info (perhaps aligned to the different swing stages - P1-10) that if your a bit this way or that this is the movement match vs you have to see exactly this. I am conscious it could be an enormous rabbit hole... but what it there was an extent of generalization...

I know this is said a lot here, but we have access to two of the best teachers in the world in @MonteScheinblum and Dan Carraher. I would pick one of them and go with some online lessons. I've never heard of anyone complaining about the quality of teaching they received from either. 

[ewaldbeukes]

2 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I know this is said a lot here, but we have access to two of the best teachers in the world in @MonteScheinblum and Dan Carraher. I would pick one of them and go with some online lessons. I've never heard of anyone complaining about the quality of teaching they received from either. 

Let me reach out to Monte 🙂 look into some online stuff

[TheDeanAbides]

Just now, ewaldbeukes said:

Let me reach out to Monte 🙂 look into some online stuff

You will not be disappointed. 

[glk]

Here is one.  
 

in the downswing, the lead side stays down (and may increase lead side bend some) the counter is the club must be shallowed via some combo of arm/ wrist movements.   For a righty, left rotation is a steepening movement and must be balanced with a shallowing movement.  
 

Great example is Barkley’s old swing, he does pretty much all steepening movements prior to his pause after which he does a combo of shallowing movements - it looks ridiculous cause there is no blend, it is pretty much all steep then all shallow.

 

tyler’s list of steep/shallow - a simplified way to think of this is anything that widens the arc is a shallower and narrows it is a steeper.   And more horizontal is shallow vs vertical is steep.
 

https://golfsmartacademy.s3.amazonaws.com/files/SteepAndShallows.pdf

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by glk

[PracticeSwinger]

2 hours ago, glk said:

Here is one.  
 

in the downswing, the lead side stays down (and may increase lead side bend some) the counter is the club must be shallowed via some combo of arm/ wrist movements.   For a righty, left rotation is a steepening movement and must be balanced with a shallowing movement.  
 

Great example is Barkley’s old swing, he does pretty much all steepening movements prior to his pause after which he does a combo of shallowing movements - it looks ridiculous cause there is no blend, it is pretty much all steep then all shallow.

 

tyler’s list of steep/shallow - a simplified way to think of this is anything that widens the arc is a shallower and narrows it is a steeper.   And more horizontal is shallow vs vertical is steep.
 

https://golfsmartacademy.s3.amazonaws.com/files/SteepAndShallows.pdf

 

 

 

that list is awesome!... only surprise I had reading all of them was on trail arm / wrist - ulnar (steep) & radial (shallow); I think most make the inverse association, especially when in the hitting zone...

 

and the last paragraph is just pure gold (if everything is set up correctly prior to that; and we all know 99% of the root causes are before that)... especially when talking about the release: the definition of trapping and compressing a golf ball (for irons and wedges obviously)

Edited March 4, 2021 by MtlJayMan

[getitdaily]

I think there are some rules that guide matchups but you have to be very knowledgeable about the swing to understand them....years and years of logging and understanding what you did when you hit it poorly and what worked to hit it well. 

 

Go hit draws and fades and record swings of both shot shapes. You'll see stuff that starts to help.

 

Hit shots with a long swing and a really short swing. You'll see stuff. 

 

Hit shots that are armsy and shots that are body led. You'll see stuff.

 

Hit shots from an upright posture and from a bent over posture. You'll see stuff.

 

Get my drift?

 

You can get the info you're after, but it will take a long time. 

 

There's a reason guys give lessons for a living and why the better instructors are well known...they've gained the knowledge you're after. You're basically looking to get a masters in golf swing. That stuff doesn't happen by reading forums or watching YouTube videos. It happens by inundating yourself in swing principles AND swinging the club purposefully feeling different things. 

 

Good luck.

Edited March 4, 2021 by getitdaily

[ewaldbeukes]

21 hours ago, glk said:

Here is one.  
 

in the downswing, the lead side stays down (and may increase lead side bend some) the counter is the club must be shallowed via some combo of arm/ wrist movements.   For a righty, left rotation is a steepening movement and must be balanced with a shallowing movement.  
 

Great example is Barkley’s old swing, he does pretty much all steepening movements prior to his pause after which he does a combo of shallowing movements - it looks ridiculous cause there is no blend, it is pretty much all steep then all shallow.

 

tyler’s list of steep/shallow - a simplified way to think of this is anything that widens the arc is a shallower and narrows it is a steeper.   And more horizontal is shallow vs vertical is steep.
 

https://golfsmartacademy.s3.amazonaws.com/files/SteepAndShallows.pdf

 

 

 

This is very cool - this is the kind of resource I was envisioning! Thank you

 

[ewaldbeukes]

14 hours ago, getitdaily said:

I think there are some rules that guide matchups but you have to be very knowledgeable about the swing to understand them....years and years of logging and understanding what you did when you hit it poorly and what worked to hit it well. 

 

Go hit draws and fades and record swings of both shot shapes. You'll see stuff that starts to help.

 

Hit shots with a long swing and a really short swing. You'll see stuff. 

 

Hit shots that are armsy and shots that are body led. You'll see stuff.

 

Hit shots from an upright posture and from a bent over posture. You'll see stuff.

 

Get my drift?

 

You can get the info you're after, but it will take a long time. 

 

There's a reason guys give lessons for a living and why the better instructors are well known...they've gained the knowledge you're after. You're basically looking to get a masters in golf swing. That stuff doesn't happen by reading forums or watching YouTube videos. It happens by inundating yourself in swing principles AND swinging the club purposefully feeling different things. 

 

Good luck.

Thanks - this is how I grew up playing as a junior golfer and ultimately what got me to scratch. Just learning to hit shots... sadly these days I am trying to get a bit more structure as the time one has to practice with work, children etc is so much less!