"Aim at the 3 palm trees"

[Bantam Ben]

In the late 80s, I was invited to join friends at the fame Los Angeles Country Club to play the south course. 

Caddies were mandatory, and our host selected Bingo to work with us.  Bingo was a really cool tall caddy

who had worked at LACC and some other clubs in the area for about 40 years.

 

As we’re approaching the 5^th tee (long uphill dogleg right par 4), Bingo laid out the hole, and then shared one of his Hogan stories. 

 

Back in the early 50s, Hogan was playing this hole, and up on the hill were 3 newly planted palm trees.

Mr. Hogan asked Bingo for the line off the tee, and Bingo said, 'Mr. Hogan see the 3 palm trees up there? Aim there with a bit of fade.'

Mr. Hogan took a puff of the cigarette, and drawled, 'which one? And which side of the palm tree?'

 

Dead pan Hogan.

 

The palms are still there today, but are quite a bit taller…and Bingo could read the greens like no one else.

 

A great day on and off the course!

[Celebros]

I believe this anecdote was included in James Dodson's book American Triumvirate.

[m d g]

Sounds like Hogan was either screwing with the guy or being a jerk.

 

Or the story is just more mystical Hogan B.S., which is much more likely.

[TwistedSister]

I played in a scramble with a guy that had dabbled on the Nationwide Tour.  On the first blind tee shot he asked where to aim.  We told him something similar,  Aim at the second tree left of the left edge of the fairway.  He said that's awful big tree can you be more specific.  One of the partners told him aim  at the the "V" in the two limbs on the very right edge of the tree and a 5 yd fade would not hurt...  Boom  300 yds right at the "V" with a 5 yd fade.

We got up to the ball  65 yds in on the very left edge of the fairway.  He did that all day.

And he couldn't make the  Nationwide tour?  I have no doubts Hogan was serious.

[m d g]

3 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

I played in a scramble with a guy that had dabbled on the Nationwide Tour.  On the first blind tee shot he asked where to aim.  We told him something similar,  Aim at the second tree left of the left edge of the fairway.  He said that's awful big tree can you be more specific.  One of the partners told him aim  at the the "V" in the two limbs on the very right edge of the tree and a 5 yd fade would not hurt...  Boom  300 yds right at the "V" with a 5 yd fade.

We got up to the ball  65 yds in on the very left edge of the fairway.  He did that all day.

And he couldn't make the  Nationwide tour?  I have no doubts Hogan was serious.

I think 90% of Hogan stories are B.S. folklore.

 

If the tree you are talking about is a huge oak? Sure, even a crap golfer might want more precision. Otherwise, no.

[TwistedSister]

Not the way it was... Id like to see you hit it to the V formed by two upper limbs and 300 yds to boot.   Not just once either...

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, m d g said:

I think 90% of Hogan stories are B.S. folklore.

 

If the tree you are talking about is a huge oak? Sure, even a crap golfer might want more precision. Otherwise, no.

To an extent I agree. Have you ever noticed that the best players, in many sports, are from quite a few years ago? Makes me wonder how much is truth and how much is a combination of the detailed stats we have today AND the oversatuation we have of sports television. 
Either that or Hogan thought the wispy rough(and I have read the rough was always brutal back in the day) was the best place to play from at Carnoustie. He would never miss a fairway after all.

 

[phizzy30]

7 minutes ago, dhacker56 said:

Not the way it was... Id like to see you hit it to the V formed by two upper limbs and 300 yds to boot.   Not just once either...

I can hit it 300 yards.  All over the place that is.  Got a client and good buddy of mine that currently plays the Mackenzie Tour.  Got another buddy who's a +4 who played on the UCR team.  Both of them hit lasers off the tee with barely any curve.  Yes, there are pros and regular joes than can do it although few and far between.  I pick and choose what to believe about Hogan.  I do believe he was deadly accurate with his driver and irons though. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by phizzy30

[m d g]

1 hour ago, dhacker56 said:

Not the way it was... Id like to see you hit it to the V formed by two upper limbs and 300 yds to boot.   Not just once either...

Anybody that good would be playing for money on Sunday. 

 

Anybody that good could pitch 10 out of 10 into a small bucket from 20 yards. Can't be done.

 

The next time, that same caddie will tell you that Hogan was asking for a line to the left wing of the gnat that was on a specific brach of the tree (they didn't call him 'Hawk' for nothing...his eyesight was that good).

 

This is how 'legends' grow.

 

You should have seen the size of that fish that got away...

[TwistedSister]

Well in this case you are incorrect.  Except that the scramble WAS on Sunday...  He  did what I said.  I can't help you think I am a liar! 

[bladehunter]

Aim small. Miss small.  

[m d g]

3 hours ago, dhacker56 said:

Well in this case you are incorrect.  Except that the scramble WAS on Sunday...  He  did what I said.  I can't help you think I am a liar! 

Guys who tell fish stories aren't liars, they're just story-tellers...there's a difference.

[BNGL]

Stories can and do get "bigger" with age...but I tend to believe that he might have said what tree whether he asked which side of a particular tree I don't know. These guys are good, and also aim small miss small is a good axiom.

 

Norman was a member of a club I worked and one evening he was hitting balls, and I struck up a conversation with him. He was just striping drivers and I asked him what he was aiming for, and he pointed to a royal palm that was close to 300. He put a few left of it, then a few to the right of it then I watched him put three balls in row off of it...I could not help but laugh shake my head it was incredible to see because he legitimately thought he'd hit it every time.

 

Buddy of mine won the PGA Club Pro and pegged it at The Genesis, although it might not have been The Genesis at the time. But they're warming up on the range on Tuesday or Wednesday and Dustin Johnson comes up behind him and starts hitting balls, he gets to his driver and I guess the range isn't the biggest because it has net around it. And as he's watching him hit he realizes he's aiming for one of the poles downrange. He said that he put a few to the right, then knocked two in a row of it picked up his tee and said "I'm good."

 

My college coach was a great player, he always told us this story of why he gave up the game as a player. He was on the range one day next to Tom Watson, and noticed he was hitting balls into the trees. After 10-12 balls intentionally going into the woods, he asked Tom what he was doing and Tom replied that he was trying to knock a pine cone off the limb, and a few shots later he did it. 

 

These guys are really good...really good. 

 

 

 

[Ferguson]

17 hours ago, Bantam Ben said:

In the late 80s, I was invited to join friends at the fame Los Angeles Country Club to play the south course. 

Caddies were mandatory, and our host selected Bingo to work with us.  Bingo was a really cool tall caddy

who had worked at LACC and some other clubs in the area for about 40 years.

 

As we’re approaching the 5^th tee (long uphill dogleg right par 4), Bingo laid out the hole, and then shared one of his Hogan stories. 

 

Back in the early 50s, Hogan was playing this hole, and up on the hill were 3 newly planted palm trees.

Mr. Hogan asked Bingo for the line off the tee, and Bingo said, 'Mr. Hogan see the 3 palm trees up there? Aim there with a bit of fade.'

Mr. Hogan took a puff of the cigarette, and drawled, 'which one? And which side of the palm tree?'

 

Dead pan Hogan.

 

The palms are still there today, but are quite a bit taller…and Bingo could read the greens like no one else.

 

A great day on and off the course!

 

 

 

 

"The lore is so thick you have to sweep it away from eyes." 

 

[bscinstnct]

4 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

 

 

"The lore is so thick you have to sweep it away from eyes." 

 

 

“He got caught throwing rocks at a minister’s pig and running away, leaping over a 40-foot ditch to get away.”

 

 

-childhood friend on Bo Jackson 

 

 

Bo clarifies the exaggeration,

 

“There was only one discrepancy in the whole film, which is fine, and I’m kind of embarrassed because it has to do with the killing of the pigs, but that ditch that I jumped wasn’t 40 feet, it was more like 20 feet. “

 

[jlbos83]

I believe that the really, really good golfer actually do aim at a very particular spot.  That certainly doesn't mean they hit it, but their focus is on the spot.  Now, I would expect for three trees close together at long range the caddie could say aim at the trees, and someone like Hogan would look at the trees and pick one, and perhaps even a branch, or edge of one as the target in his mind's eye, without ever vocalizing it.  And if Hogan was having a bit of fun, maybe he would actually say it.

[Bantam Ben]

5 hours ago, Ferguson said:

 

 

 

 

"The lore is so thick you have to sweep it away from eyes." 

 

As it should be.  I presume that Tiger Woods stories are even more intense.

[Bantam Ben]

19 hours ago, m d g said:

Sounds like Hogan was either screwing with the guy or being a jerk.

 

Or the story is just more mystical Hogan B.S., which is much more likely.

Perhaps a bit of both.  If you're that good, it may come across as either.

[Bantam Ben]

15 hours ago, m d g said:

Anybody that good would be playing for money on Sunday. 

 

Anybody that good could pitch 10 out of 10 into a small bucket from 20 yards. Can't be done.

 

The next time, that same caddie will tell you that Hogan was asking for a line to the left wing of the gnat that was on a specific brach of the tree (they didn't call him 'Hawk' for nothing...his eyesight was that good).

 

This is how 'legends' grow.

 

You should have seen the size of that fish that got away...

The left wing of the gnat, eh?  No doubt that these events have been exaggerated over time.

Speaking of gnats, remember Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillies? Max Bear, Jr.  Met him on the driving range; he's 6'4" and 250 at the time and could kill it.  Really cool guy on the driving range...

[m d g]

5 minutes ago, Bantam Ben said:

Perhaps a bit of both.  If you're that good, it may come across as either.

I guess my point is, that nobody...not Hogan or Jack or Tiger needs to have that level of specificity for a shot that will travel that far and has a 30-yard fairway as the target. 

 

There is too much error in every golf swing to make it matter. Only Iron Byron could put 3 balls into a small circle with a driver. 

 

The only reason it makes sense is as a psychological aid for the golfer...to give them peace of mind that every contingency has been accounted for.

[mokedaddy]

Makes me think of this commercial.

 

[m d g]

11 hours ago, BNGL said:

He was just striping drivers and I asked him what he was aiming for, and he pointed to a royal palm that was close to 300.

Arguably the greatest golfer of all time advocates picking a line and then squaring the club to a point just a few inches or feet along that target line. If you think about how much error there is in that method after the ball travels 300 yards, you can see that 'close' was good enough for Jack, and things worked out pretty well for him : )

[j.b.newton]

the same analogy of aim small miss small applies across all sports - baseball pitchers (aiming at a quarter size spot in the webbing of the mitt), shooting a basketball (an imaginary spot 3 inches above the rim), tennis serves (an imaginary cone in the corner of the service box).  Its purely an aiming/psychological component that progresses with skill.  Ask any duffer where they are aiming on the tee and they will say the green, then it goes to a specific half of the green, then a quarter, etc etc...  When your misses become smaller, your aim has to become more specific.

 

Now, if you want to show off you verbally ask for more specific things, but the humble ones take the suggestion and then pick their own very small spot without telling you.

[Bantam Ben]

31 minutes ago, mokedaddy said:

Makes me think of this commercial.

 

This is great!

[straightshot7]

2 hours ago, m d g said:

I guess my point is, that nobody...not Hogan or Jack or Tiger needs to have that level of specificity for a shot that will travel that far and has a 30-yard fairway as the target. 

 

There is too much error in every golf swing to make it matter. Only Iron Byron could put 3 balls into a small circle with a driver. 

 

The only reason it makes sense is as a psychological aid for the golfer...to give them peace of mind that every contingency has been accounted for.

there’s also the idea that by picking a very small target you focus the mind and your miss is a better miss. 
 

as a poster said above, “aim small, miss small”.

 

If you’re just aiming for the fairway, you’re not giving your mind and body a specific enough target.

 

if you completely visualize a shot and choose a very small/specific target, you give your mind and body a better chance to execute the desired shot. 

[bladehunter]

13 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

there’s also the idea that by picking a very small target you focus the mind and your miss is a better miss. 
 

as a poster said above, “aim small, miss small”.

 

If you’re just aiming for the fairway, you’re not giving your mind and body a specific enough target.

 

if you completely visualize a shot and choose a very small/specific target, you give your mind and body a better chance to execute the desired shot. 

Absolutely.   I’d add. 
 

I went through a putting period where I burned every edge on every cup.  I’d constantly see a break and think “ right edge “ and I’d hit it exactly over that edge.  It wasn’t until someone pointed out that I was hitting my targets that the bulb went off.  So I started moving my focus in an inch and saying “ inside right “.  And made putts by the dozens.    That may not work for someone who’s a straight line putter.  For me it’s feel. I choose a target in the cup based on my read.  A target I want to hit.  You can think clock method , or you can simply pick a mark or blade or grass in front of the cup to focus on.  But it works. 

[Hawkeye77]

3 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

“He got caught throwing rocks at a minister’s pig and running away, leaping over a 40-foot ditch to get away.”

 

 

-childhood friend on Bo Jackson 

 

 

Bo clarifies the exaggeration,

 

“There was only one discrepancy in the whole film, which is fine, and I’m kind of embarrassed because it has to do with the killing of the pigs, but that ditch that I jumped wasn’t 40 feet, it was more like 20 feet. “

 

I KNEW the SEC doubled his yardages,  Chuck Long should have won the Heisman!

[Hawkeye77]

17 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Absolutely.   I’d add. 
 

I went through a putting period where I burned every edge on every cup.  I’d constantly see a break and think “ right edge “ and I’d hit it exactly over that edge.  It wasn’t until someone pointed out that I was hitting my targets that the bulb went off.  So I started moving my focus in an inch and saying “ inside right “.  And made putts by the dozens.    That may not work for someone who’s a straight line putter.  For me it’s feel. I choose a target in the cup based on my read.  A target I want to hit.  You can think clock method , or you can simply pick a mark or blade or grass in front of the cup to focus on.  But it works. 

Yep, same reason the putt to an “x” foot circle is nonsense. And how often do you see folks having trouble with breaking putts of medium to longer length with 8” cups in fun events - they aren’t aiming for the center. 

[dlygrisse]

22 hours ago, dhacker56 said:

I played in a scramble with a guy that had dabbled on the Nationwide Tour.  On the first blind tee shot he asked where to aim.  We told him something similar,  Aim at the second tree left of the left edge of the fairway.  He said that's awful big tree can you be more specific.  One of the partners told him aim  at the the "V" in the two limbs on the very right edge of the tree and a 5 yd fade would not hurt...  Boom  300 yds right at the "V" with a 5 yd fade.

We got up to the ball  65 yds in on the very left edge of the fairway.  He did that all day.

And he couldn't make the  Nationwide tour?  I have no doubts Hogan was serious.

I played in a scramble with a guy who was similar.  He was an incredible ball striker and was a winner on the Asian tour.  I'd take my putting over his 99 days out of 100 though.  HIs distance control blew my mind all day, on one par 5, up hill, we were about 240 out.  He hit a FW wood way up in the air, 1/2 way there he turned to us and said "that's perfect".  We said how do you know? He said "because I am a pro, and I know" then he laughed.  He was a cool dude.  When we got the the green the ball was about 2 feet from the hole, dead over a large bunker.  

[dlygrisse]

55 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

there’s also the idea that by picking a very small target you focus the mind and your miss is a better miss. 
 

as a poster said above, “aim small, miss small”.

 

If you’re just aiming for the fairway, you’re not giving your mind and body a specific enough target.

 

if you completely visualize a shot and choose a very small/specific target, you give your mind and body a better chance to execute the desired shot. 

"Take dead aim" maybe Harvey and Ben had lunch one day.