Swing thoughts?

[Hack_Golf_88]

I’ve come back to golf after a few years away. I’m really struggling with contact right now. I hit everything off the heel, and the occasional shank with my irons. I’ve always had an inside/flat backswing. In the videos below, it is me exaggerating an outside backswing. As you can tell it’s still inside. I don’t know if it’s the plane of swing causing heels strikes, or the fact that I feel like I’m slapping at the ball. Anyways, any feedback would be great, thanks. 
 

Iron swing and driver swing:

[Valtiel]

That feeling of slapping at the ball is likely a combo of a couple things. You have great looking movement overall and if you didn't look closely you would be forgiven for assuming you're a very good player! There are a few "fatal" flaws going on though that are what is giving you grief, primarily a stall/flip move through impact caused my improper sequencing and some typical exaggerations of the problem in the longer clubs:





The good is that you're rotating well with the lower body going back and maintaining depth (butt against the line established at address). The bad is a bit complicated as there are a few things going on and there might be a little guesswork that I hope some others can chime in on. The flat takeaway (exaggerated with the driver) is also causing your shoulders to flatten out pretty badly with the driver, which is sort of setting you into a very "baseball" type of motion. This is likely part of why you have maintained good depth in the backswing as you're using that space create to swing in from the inside and really disconnect your arms and throw them away from your body. This is combining with a but of a hump/early extension that is really highlighted in the last 3 panels of the iron swing above. We can see in those panels that your hips have not cleared and have stalled, and you have chucked your hands at the ball and away from your body with a lot of clubface rotation. This is where that "slapping" feeling comes from. 

The logical question then is "how do I fix it?!" and I don't think i'm qualified to answer that one since there are multiple things at play here that i'm not sure how to address all together. Neutralizing your takeaway would be a good start, especially with the driver. Leading the downswing with the lower body and getting your hips cleared at impact is another, and that will help with the "slappy" feeling. How you go about doing those things is what I want to avoid recommending because the way you move (well) gives me the feeling that your current swing and approach may pretty ingrained and just telling you to do this or do that may mess you up more than it would help. Finding a good instructor is probably the best way to go, and i'm sure some others will chime in here with some insights. 

[Hack_Golf_88]

Thank you for the feedback and breaking down my swing with the panels! The last 3 panels of my iron swing I can really see how my hips have stalled and then I just throw my arms at the ball. That is exactly how it feels. I almost feel like I am reluctant to hit the ball because my miss is usually a pull. So if I fire and clear my hips, I feel like I am going to pull the ball way left, so I hold on. You are spot on with how my current swing is ingrained. These swings are me trying to neutralize my takeaway, and especially my driver is no where close to being on plane, so it is a definitely a battle.  Thanks again for your thoughts!

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, Hack_Golf_88 said:

Thank you for the feedback and breaking down my swing with the panels! The last 3 panels of my iron swing I can really see how my hips have stalled and then I just throw my arms at the ball. That is exactly how it feels. I almost feel like I am reluctant to hit the ball because my miss is usually a pull. So if I fire and clear my hips, I feel like I am going to pull the ball way left, so I hold on. You are spot on with how my current swing is ingrained. These swings are me trying to neutralize my takeaway, and especially my driver is no where close to being on plane, so it is a definitely a battle.  Thanks again for your thoughts!

No problem! I'm glad some of my assumptions were correct there. Throwing the arms away and out to the right is one of the common (albeit lesser) compensations for a miss (in your case the pull you mentioned). The devilish thing is the "Chinese Finger Trap" nature of the golf swing, meaning that we often do the opposite of what we should do in attempt to fix the issue. In this case it is your feelings about clearing hips, because an aggressive hip clear is actually very common among prominent "anti left" faders of the ball, like DJ, Morikawa, Hovland etc etc. 




As we can see, hips are cleared and pointing out towards the target with these guys, where yours are not. When your lower body has rotated and cleared, your hands and arms are free to move through the hitting area unrestricted as they play catch up to your hips/pelvis. When your lower body hasn't cleared, your hands and forearms will want to start flipping. The left wrist will start to breakdown and the right hand will want to turn over the top of it, like we see here on your iron shot:

 

As opposed to what we see from someone like DJ:



I use DJ as an example because he is a bit of a freak in these regards and his positions are a little exaggerated, but the underlying fundamentals are rock solid. You can really feel these pictures too by doing a simple exercise. Address the ball normally and take little half swings, hip to hip basically. Do this first with zero (or as little as possible) hip rotation, specifically trying to keep the hips locked through your simulated impact. What you will notice with your hips static like this is that your hands will want to start flipping over as soon as they reach your hips, only getting worse as they pass them. Now do the same thing but with your hips as open/cleared as you can get them to simulate a cleared position at impact. The backswing might be a little tough so feel free to shorten it, but what you'll likely feel then is that the hands and arms will move through the impact area with much more stability and won't start to flip over until they approach your hips, at which time you are already well clear of impact. This is just a little way to feel what is otherwise happening in a split second and helps reinforce the importance of not letting your arms outrace your lower body. 

One thing you can try at the range is setting up aiming left and forcing yourself to hit big cuts starting left, something that will be almost impossible with your current move, just so you can feel something different to what you have ingrained. I'd still recommend a good hands on instructor though. 👍

And just to be clear, you can still hit balls well from these otherwise "bad" positions, you will just be subject to much more timing and inconsistency. A perfect example is Luke Donald, who has a similar rolling over of his hands through impact due to an early extension move as well...



...however he is also statistically one of the worst drivers on tour. 😅

Edited March 5, 2021 by Valtiel

[TheDeanAbides]

Following on from the great feedback you've received from Valtiel, I feel like you need to start at the beginning. Your setup is quite stiff and your backside is out a bit too far. Try relaxing your shoulders a little and bending from the ankles some more so you can get your butt closer to your ankles. 

 

From there your first important position is P3, and here you're too flat. 

 

 

 

Ffrom there you just lift your arms straight up and disconnect, so it's no wonder you have to make so many compensations in the downswing. You need to give yourself a better chance of getting back to the ball.

 

Here you're so trapped that you have no choice but the throw the hands at it. You need to give yourself room in the transition by keeping your back to the target for much longer, but you can't really do that until you sort of out your posture and backswing. 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by TheDeanAbides

[TheDeanAbides]

OP, if you haven't already noticed, Lane thinks he knows literally everything about the golf swing, and posts like an evangelical fruitbag. He's harmless and might even have some good stuff to contribute, but it's probably best to just nod and smile. 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, laneholt said:

Well - Dean,

 

     Your advice is good ! It is ALWAYS up to the Individual to sort out what he or she believes to be FACTUAL or just THEORY and OPINION and NONSENSE! 
    I always assume that people are Intelligent enough to make their own decisions . I just sincerely try to stick to FACTS and I sincerely hope that people will correct me if i post something that is Incorrect! 
    I would never want to advise a player of something that is detrimental to learning this great game ! 
Thanks much for your reply !

Lane, I apologise. My comment was disrespectful. I just find your posting style difficult to read because you talk about things as if they're cast iron facts instead of just the opinions of a guy who had another theory that may or may not work for some people. 

 

[Hack_Golf_88]

Thanks for all the comments everyone, much appreciated. I have a lot to fix and this is a great start!

[golfarb1]

Laneholt is a devotee of Gerry Hogan and has a lot to contribute to discussions of the swing. His emphasis on the hands is both interesting and thought  provocating  

 

[golfarb1]

 

To quickly summarize, you fail to get your right elbow in front and on your right hip at impact and are forced to flip to square the clubface.

Many of your issues would disappear if your takeaway was better. Your goal when the shaft is first parallel to the ground is  to  also have  the shaft parallel to the target line with the clubface parallel to your spine. 

To effect this take the club back with the triangle of your arms  and the relationship of the shaft relative to this triangle intact and unchanged until about a foot past your trail foot. Because your torso is also turning at the same time , this triangle of your arms will also be moving slightly to the inside.