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Just got fitted for new irons. Went with the new Apex 21's with the Mamiya graphite 70 gram in stiff. Long story short I am losing 10-15 yds in every iron! went back to fitter and he tried changing lie angle, then changing swing weight to D4 by adding lead tape! None of this as helped and I am very unhappy! Not sure the general policy at other places but he doesn't want to take them back because "they have been played". How would i know they don't work for me without playing them. I played my old clubs at +1" with KBS 90's in stiff. Swing speed with 7 iron consistent at 89-93 mph. I believe it is the shafts but he is adamant they are what the fitting showed. I am at a loss, what to do. Suggestions anyone? Fitter doesn't want to do it but I think I am going to insist we try another shaft. He indicated that if I want that I may have to pay for the new shafts. That doesn't seem right but I can't play these clubs.  

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A couple of things aren't adding up wrt your distances you are stating and your SS.  at 90+ you should be hitting 7i (loft depending somewhat) much further than 165 yards.  You say you hit your new ir

I said this before and i will say it again... fitters are very hit or miss. Most of the time... i think its going to be miss. I had a fitting last year and i hated it. Felt it was very money based mos

If you purchased from who fit you they should make it right without any additional cost.  If not, I would never do business with them again.

Well increasing the swing weight is going to make the shafts play even softer so will likely make your problem worse. No way that fit makes sense if you’re swinging a 7 at 93mph.. but nor does +1” with KBS 90 stiff so I’m not really sure what’s happening here. 
 

The other variable is 1. It takes a while to get used to new clubs 2. Getting fit in winter (assuming you have an off season) can result in wonky things as your in season swing isn’t grooved 

 

Anyways id question that fit big time but having been fit many times you obviously have to agree that something is working to order it. If you ordered D4 and they came lighter that is a build issue but no idea what you guys are doing going with those shafts at that speed. I’m 96mph with 7 iron on trackman and only a bit faster and I’m in X100 and have considered going to X7. I would not be able to hit those that you have ..

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The standard lofts in the Apex, according to there specs are a bit stronger, to the tune of 2 degrees across the set. When I went in for the fit I specifically requested he measure my old irons, I hit them great, but he wouldn't gain anything from that. I am not one who can equate hitting in to a screen with real life but I can tell you I went from hitting my old 7 iron 165 to the Apex 7 iron 150-155 and that is nutted. I agree it isn't prime golf weather but that seems unreasonable to me.

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3 minutes ago, ChrisLC40 said:

Assuming you were fit using the 70g Mamiya, have you tried hitting your new 7i against the fitting 7i setup?

Tes, fitter assured me I got what he fitted but something is not correct. I don't ever recall being this disappointed with a new set of irons ans I do not see a clear path ahead!

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How were results comparing the 2 clubs?

 

Aside from tweaking lie angle, are the other club specs in check - loft, length, SW, etc? Did you order a different size grip vs. the fitting club? That can throw things off pretty horribly from my own experience/experimenting.

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32 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

Well increasing the swing weight is going to make the shafts play even softer so will likely make your problem worse. No way that fit makes sense if you’re swinging a 7 at 93mph.. but nor does +1” with KBS 90 stiff so I’m not really sure what’s happening here. 
 

The other variable is 1. It takes a while to get used to new clubs 2. Getting fit in winter (assuming you have an off season) can result in wonky things as your in season swing isn’t grooved 

 

Anyways id question that fit big time but having been fit many times you obviously have to agree that something is working to order it. If you ordered D4 and they came lighter that is a build issue but no idea what you guys are doing going with those shafts at that speed. I’m 96mph with 7 iron on trackman and only a bit faster and I’m in X100 and have considered going to X7. I would not be able to hit those that you have ..

I will admit to being a real novice in club fitting. My direct response to him was I have never found a graphite club that I felt comfortable with. Again, looking at his data it appeared I was hitting the 7 iron about 165-170, that just has not materialized on the course. A couple yards due to cold and wind I get but 15 yds! He wants to keep tinkering but I need some kind of resolution. I was supposed to play in a tournament the end of this month but i have already backed out. No way I can play to my index with these clubs.

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2 minutes ago, ChrisLC40 said:

How were results comparing the 2 clubs?

 

Aside from tweaking lie angle, are the other club specs in check - loft, length, SW, etc? Did you order a different size grip vs. the fitting club? That can throw things off pretty horribly from my own experience/experimenting.

I did request oversize grips but we used them in the fitting as well. I don't know where to look. I do know that I have a set of new clubs that have a bunch of lead tape on them and and they look like crap!. I do not know what the next step is. I am going back today to give him the bad news regarding increasing the swing weight from d2, factory delivered, to d4 with all the lead is not the answer!

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My guess....

new shafts are to light....causing early release ,loss of shaft lean , and proper compression of ball at impact...happens to me when I go too light...can do the Howard Jones "DIY tune up" test with lead tape on the shaft....this will give you an idea if the total weight of the club , not just swingweight is the problem...

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24 minutes ago, ChrisLC40 said:

How were results comparing the 2 clubs?

 

Aside from tweaking lie angle, are the other club specs in check - loft, length, SW, etc? Did you order a different size grip vs. the fitting club? That can throw things off pretty horribly from my own experience/experimenting.

Echo - what was the result of side by side comparison?  That should tell the real story.

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A couple of things aren't adding up wrt your distances you are stating and your SS.  at 90+ you should be hitting 7i (loft depending somewhat) much further than 165 yards.  You say you hit your new irons 150-155ish, which doesn't add up even with the wrong shafts at that speed as even a 8-9k spin PW to 9i would be traveling that far.

 

Cold weather will also affect things more than you think, much more than just a couple of yards as you stated.  I know that as things get colder, I get colder, the ball gets colder (though I change to a lower comp ball) I can see a 2 club difference vs. in season play at times as it's harder to get into a groove and swing freely.

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Hate to say it, but know the return policy before you buy. If they're really not working and fitter won't take them back, you may have to take them to another fitter, get another session and have the irons tweaked, which could include a reshaft. That could get costly quick depending on what the new fitter recommends for a different shaft. Once you figure out if a new shaft is needed, you may want to contact Callaway and see if they'll do the reshaft for less. Not saying they will but it's worth a call to their customer service department

 

Also, echo what everyone else is saying, low 90's swing speed on a 7 iron should fly way further than 165. 

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Tell us a little bit about the fitter's set-up...

  • Does fitter own the shop or work for someone else?
  • Is this a formal golf shop, or does fitter work out of a workshop in his garage?
  • Does he have any certification certificates from golf clubsmithing training on his walls?
1 hour ago, cn34 said:

Hate to say it, but know the return policy before you buy. ...  you may want to contact Callaway and see if they'll do the reshaft for less. Not saying they will but it's worth a call to their customer service department

 

Reality: you need to get another fitting with a better fitter. Check out service guarantees and training of fitter before you select one.

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what were your old irons? and what were their lofts?

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I said this before and i will say it again... fitters are very hit or miss. Most of the time... i think its going to be miss. I had a fitting last year and i hated it. Felt it was very money based mostly. I hated the shaft he ended up suggesting and ended up going with something i thought was better and might work and it did. The shaft he wanted for me felt, looked and most of all for whatever reason i couldnt hit right with them. Picked my own and it worked out and so glad i did.

 

P.s. if you really hate them and feel its unfair and hes not helping you get into something that works for you without charging again... if you paid by credit card... i would call the credit card compant and have them dispute the charge for being given a item that doesnt work... doesnt fit the description of what you needed. Irons are too expensive to be givin a set that doesnt work and told just deal with it... thats insane.

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1 hour ago, mxskier said:

what were your old irons? and what were their lofts?

My old irons are TM RSI 1's with the standard lofts. The spec charts show both 7 irons at 30.5 degrees of loft. The variables are generally 1 degree of loft between sets. The greater difference is steel shaft +1" in the TOm's and graphite " standard" stiff in the Callies. I will say I went back to the fitter today and we talked a few minutes. It looks like his next step is have me retry the fit to see if a steel shaft makes a difference. We are supposed to have a warm up next week so I am going to give these another try but I do not expect much. I just don't think these shafts fit me.

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6 minutes ago, iNeedMoreGolf said:

I said this before and i will say it again... fitters are very hit or miss. Most of the time... i think its going to be miss. I had a fitting last year and i hated it. Felt it was very money based mostly. I hated the shaft he ended up suggesting and ended up going with something i thought was better and might work and it did. The shaft he wanted for me felt, looked and most of all for whatever reason i couldnt hit right with them. Picked my own and it worked out and so glad i did.

 

P.s. if you really hate them and feel its unfair and hes not helping you get into something that works for you without charging again... if you paid by credit card... i would call the credit card compant and have them dispute the charge for being given a item that doesnt work... doesnt fit the description of what you needed. Irons are too expensive to be givin a set that doesnt work and told just deal with it... thats insane.

The problem is I agreed to the purchase based on what I was "seeing" in the fitting bay. That performance is NOT what I am seeing on the course. He/I have no explanation for the difference but it is real. As I told him today I do not want these clubs in there current format. He has agreed we need to revisit the fit. What that means in different cost is unknown.

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2 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

Tell us a little bit about the fitter's set-up...

  • Does fitter own the shop or work for someone else?
  • Is this a formal golf shop, or does fitter work out of a workshop in his garage?
  • Does he have any certification certificates from golf clubsmithing training on his walls?

 

Reality: you need to get another fitting with a better fitter. Check out service guarantees and training of fitter before you select one.

He owns his shop and I selected him based on the recommendations of several friends. They, to a man, were/are happy with their results. All indications, my results aside, are very positive, and he does have what appear to be a number of certifications.

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17 minutes ago, WVheel1 said:

The problem is I agreed to the purchase based on what I was "seeing" in the fitting bay. That performance is NOT what I am seeing on the course. He/I have no explanation for the difference but it is real. As I told him today I do not want these clubs in there current format. He has agreed we need to revisit the fit. What that means in different cost is unknown.

If you purchased from who fit you they should make it right without any additional cost.  If not, I would never do business with them again.

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14 minutes ago, WVheel1 said:

He owns his shop and I selected him based on the recommendations of several friends. They, to a man, were/are happy with their results. All indications, my results aside, are very positive, and he does have what appear to be a number of certifications.

I was once fit by a professional fitter who sold KZG clubs.  He used some type of fitting program that said I needed an A Flex shaft.  I am 6'4, 275 lbs and play stiff to X stiff.  I laughed at him but he insisted he build me an iron with A Flex to demo.  I let him do that and then took it out on the course.  Balloon city!  Took it back and he asked how I liked it.  I said not at all, thanked him for his time and advice and ran as fast as I could never to return again.

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4 hours ago, PEI_Golfer said:

A couple of things aren't adding up wrt your distances you are stating and your SS.  at 90+ you should be hitting 7i (loft depending somewhat) much further than 165 yards.  You say you hit your new irons 150-155ish, which doesn't add up even with the wrong shafts at that speed as even a 8-9k spin PW to 9i would be traveling that far.

 

Cold weather will also affect things more than you think, much more than just a couple of yards as you stated.  I know that as things get colder, I get colder, the ball gets colder (though I change to a lower comp ball) I can see a 2 club difference vs. in season play at times as it's harder to get into a groove and swing freely.

^^^This

 

Numbers don't seem to add up, so I'd back off jumping on the "bad fit" bandwagon before getting more details.  Or, is it just a matter of difference in temperature and current playing form (165yd 7i in mid-summer vs. the tail-end of a long winter layoff)?

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It could be a number of things... also could be seeing a difference because you went from hitting of a matt to hitting on real grass? Heres another probable cause... they say graphite is lighter in weight but i can assure you sometimes it seems even more heavier then light steel shafts. My dad had some taylormade clubs my uncle gave him that were brand new but graphite... my uncle said they felt heavy... my dad took them... he said they felt heavy. They were right they were heavy when i tryed them... even though they were only 70g shafts. I ended up getting him some irons with 95g shafts.... night and day how lighter the steel feels. Hes hitting it much better and further now. You may want to re consider the graphite. Not to mention you may be getting extra height  and spin on the ball causing yardage loss too.

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2 hours ago, iNeedMoreGolf said:

They were right they were heavy when i tryed them... even though they were only 70g shafts. I ended up getting him some irons with 95g shafts.... night and day how lighter the steel feels. 

 

I'm pretty sure you are talking about SW rather than total weight of the club.  So likely they weren't built properly.

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Hate to think it buddy... but this type of loss is only possible if this is too much club for you..

 you can't be hitting the centre of the face.

 

A buddy 5 years ago got upsold and the clubs were not right for him.

 

go to a box store or an outside demo and try hitting all they got.

 

Best of luck !! 

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I’m no expert but I think you’ve changed too many variables all at once.

 

Weight, length, material all significantly different between the 2 sets

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1 hour ago, anth said:

I’m no expert but I think you’ve changed too many variables all at once.

 

Weight, length, material all significantly different between the 2 sets

I didn't change anything! I went to what all here agree is a competent fitter. I told him I really liked my current irons and just wanted to upgrade with new irons and asked him to check my irons before we started so he/we would have a baseline. He said and I quote "I don't need that information we will fit you to what you need now". Ok, again I do not know enough to tell a competent fitter anything other than that doesn't feel right until I see the club on the course. That is why I went to a fitter. I will tell you that other than a larger grip w/2 extra wraps of tape I think I could have gotten these at any dicks for less than I paid!

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