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Serious help needed!


WVheel1

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Your shaft choice makes no sense to me. From one spectrum to the next. Red flag was going from 90 to 70 and seeing "positive" results after you had no previous issues with the last set of irons. 

Edited by Kingcat990

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1 hour ago, WVheel1 said:

I didn't change anything! I went to what all here agree is a competent fitter. I told him I really liked my current irons and just wanted to upgrade with new irons and asked him to check my irons before we started so he/we would have a baseline. He said and I quote "I don't need that information we will fit you to what you need now". Ok, again I do not know enough to tell a competent fitter anything other than that doesn't feel right until I see the club on the course. That is why I went to a fitter. I will tell you that other than a larger grip w/2 extra wraps of tape I think I could have gotten these at any dicks for less than I paid!

Sorry, when I said “you” I meant “he”.

 

I think my point still stands though. You’ve (he!) changed:

 

Shaft length 

Shaft weight 

Shaft material 

Club head

Grips?

Swing weight?

 

It’s a lot of variables. Throw in summer vs winter distances and there’s your 15 yards difference.

 

None of this is helpful I guess because you want to know what to do about it. Sounds like you’re trying to resolve it with the fitter which is good

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It sounds like it was a bad fitting.  A good fitting should result in your feeling MORE comfortable with the new set sooner than later.   If you get a custom tailored suit, it shouldn't take you awhile to feel comfortable in it.  

 

Unfortunately it's harder to find a good fitter than a good doctor, dentist, accountant, attorney, etc.  IMO, that's why custom club fitting has never caught on like it should.

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Wow.  I hear things like this often.  You can get fit and feel great about your purchase, then you get home with your clubs and they aren’t performing anything like the fit.  While it does take time to get used to a totally new set of clubs, shafts, grips etc....it could just be a poor build.  Hope the fitter does a good job getting to the bottom of the issue for you.  This loss of distance should show up when you go back.  Good luck 

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Don’t think I saw it in the thread...where do you live?  Is it super cold out?  Did you hit your old irons against your new irons in either setting (simulator or outdoors)?  Are you seeing this yardage difference currently or just based on your knowledge of your stock distances with your old set?  Cold weather makes a huge difference. 
 

If you have hit them side by side and see the difference, def need to work with the fitter the get it right. 

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8 hours ago, WVheel1 said:

I didn't change anything! I went to what all here agree is a competent fitter. I told him I really liked my current irons and just wanted to upgrade with new irons and asked him to check my irons before we started so he/we would have a baseline. He said and I quote "I don't need that information we will fit you to what you need now". Ok, again I do not know enough to tell a competent fitter anything other than that doesn't feel right until I see the club on the course. That is why I went to a fitter. I will tell you that other than a larger grip w/2 extra wraps of tape I think I could have gotten these at any dicks for less than I paid!

 

 

Hindsight but you should have walked away from this person right after he told you that he/she didn't need that information......to see you hit kbs 90 stiff +1 over well and put you in anything LIGHTER or softer without shaft length factoring in is ludicrous......you've been hit by a smooth criminal.....again I'll reiterate,  you didn't hit your clubs on the monitor,  correct? So for you there was no baseline to see compared to being outside......

 

The weight is completely wrong throwing your timing AND tempo off......like others have said , file a claim with your credit card and good luck! 

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4 hours ago, SwooshLT said:

 

 

Hindsight but you should have walked away from this person right after he told you that he/she didn't need that information......to see you hit kbs 90 stiff +1 over well and put you in anything LIGHTER or softer without shaft length factoring in is ludicrous......you've been hit by a smooth criminal.....again I'll reiterate,  you didn't hit your clubs on the monitor,  correct? So for you there was no baseline to see compared to being outside......

 

The weight is completely wrong throwing your timing AND tempo off......like others have said , file a claim with your credit card and good luck! 

I did not hit my clubs on the monitor. His position, as I understood it, was that info was not pertinent to the fitting. Again, I am not very learned when it comes to fitting. He asked me what I wanted from New clubs. My response, at least partly, was "I am a 5 index, I want to be scratch" that is what I "wanted". I know he can't do that but how else do I answer? I wanted new clubs that performed at least as well as my old irons!

On another note, several have stated that I couldn't be getting the distance I stated with the swing speed I stated. First the distance is not measured. It is what I hit on the course with my current clubs. The speed is what was shown in the fitting bay with the 7 iron, with lesser results than on course. I can't confirm the speed other than that. I am 67 and currently carry 6 index. So what should a swing speed of 90 mph provide? I a!says considered myself long for my age. Certainly significantly longer than the other retirees I play with.

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12 hours ago, GQ0208 said:

I usually have to club up an entire club when playing in cold conditions. Not sure how cold it is where you are playing. 

I don't play when it is brutally cold. Typical temps when we play in winter, 35/6 and above. I understand a loss based on cold body,cold balls ect. but I just think the difference is outside of past norms.

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34 minutes ago, WVheel1 said:

I don't play when it is brutally cold. Typical temps when we play in winter, 35/6 and above. I understand a loss based on cold body,cold balls ect. but I just think the difference is outside of past norms.

I think the thing that makes the most sense is to determine distance with new 7 iron to old 7 iron off grass. See how that compares. Then compare new 7 iron to old 7 iron at fitter. See how it all compares.

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20 hours ago, WVheel1 said:

They, to a man, were/are happy with their results. All indications, my results aside, are very positive,

That fitter must have a twin brother in my area. I picked the guy with a "good reputation" to reshaft my X20 Tours back in 2014. Needed to have the shafts pulled and re-epoxied by another shop after heads started coming loose.

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Loss of distance compared to the old irons?

Q.  Did you hit your old irons along side the new ones in the same conditions?

If not then you need to do that at the fitting to see what the actual differences are at the same time under the same conditions.

Do that and report back on your findings.

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1 hour ago, WVheel1 said:

I did not hit my clubs on the monitor. His position, as I understood it, was that info was not pertinent to the fitting. Again, I am not very learned when it comes to fitting. He asked me what I wanted from New clubs. My response, at least partly, was "I am a 5 index, I want to be scratch" that is what I "wanted". I know he can't do that but how else do I answer? I wanted new clubs that performed at least as well as my old irons!

On another note, several have stated that I couldn't be getting the distance I stated with the swing speed I stated. First the distance is not measured. It is what I hit on the course with my current clubs. The speed is what was shown in the fitting bay with the 7 iron, with lesser results than on course. I can't confirm the speed other than that. I am 67 and currently carry 6 index. So what should a swing speed of 90 mph provide? I a!says considered myself long for my age. Certainly significantly longer than the other retirees I play with.

 

 

With that speed,  you're ballpark with your yardages.....maybe even underestimating a smidge.....rsi irons probably should be 170s carry for that iron speed.....that is what I'm assuming is your iron not driver speed.....

 

Again , ANY good fitter worth his salt would take into account your current set for comparison or at least 7i 

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46 minutes ago, SwooshLT said:

 

 

With that speed,  you're ballpark with your yardages.....maybe even underestimating a smidge.....rsi irons probably should be 170s carry for that iron speed.....that is what I'm assuming is your iron not driver speed.....

 

Again , ANY good fitter worth his salt would take into account your current set for comparison or at least 7i 

Thanks for the input! I agree wholeheartedly on the need to assess my current clubs in order to do a fit, however he indicated that is not how he does things. This is my first fitting with this type fitter. All my others were at a retailer i.e. Dicks or other such places. I did make the trip to a Second Swing location before civic and their "fitting" while the same as at Dicks, were vastly different than this latest fitting. They proposed a set of Mizuno 919 forged with the modus 105 shafts. Unfortunately the pandemic closed their location until the September time frame and I never made the drive again. It's a couple of new for me and I thought, how much different can the location make. Apparently an expensive mistake on my part!

Yes, the speed I stated is with the 7 iron. My driver swing speed, when I last had it checked last summer was regular 98-102 mph. I currently carry my driver around245-255 yds measured using a gps.

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54 minutes ago, WVheel1 said:

Thanks for the input! I agree wholeheartedly on the need to assess my current clubs in order to do a fit, however he indicated that is not how he does things. This is my first fitting with this type fitter. All my others were at a retailer i.e. Dicks or other such places. I did make the trip to a Second Swing location before civic and their "fitting" while the same as at Dicks, were vastly different than this latest fitting. They proposed a set of Mizuno 919 forged with the modus 105 shafts. Unfortunately the pandemic closed their location until the September time frame and I never made the drive again. It's a couple of new for me and I thought, how much different can the location make. Apparently an expensive mistake on my part!

Yes, the speed I stated is with the 7 iron. My driver swing speed, when I last had it checked last summer was regular 98-102 mph. I currently carry my driver around245-255 yds measured using a gps.

Go on YouTube and watch  the guys on TXG...Ian Fraser is one of the most knowledgeable fitters you will ever find IMO. He has a video explaining what you should expect and questions to ask when you go in for a fitting. The first red flag I see is your fitter not using your current clubs as a baseline. The second red flag would be you going from a +1” shaft to standard...that is a major swing adjustment especially for someone who is a low handicapper such as yourself. Do yourself a favor and try to do some research on line to help you guide your fitter....if he wouldn’t listen to you run as fast as you can to find someone else. 

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On 3/5/2021 at 6:47 AM, WVheel1 said:

Just got fitted for new irons. Went with the new Apex 21's with the Mamiya graphite 70 gram in stiff. Long story short I am losing 10-15 yds in every iron! went back to fitter and he tried changing lie angle, then changing swing weight to D4 by adding lead tape! None of this as helped and I am very unhappy! Not sure the general policy at other places but he doesn't want to take them back because "they have been played". How would i know they don't work for me without playing them. I played my old clubs at +1" with KBS 90's in stiff. Swing speed with 7 iron consistent at 89-93 mph. I believe it is the shafts but he is adamant they are what the fitting showed. I am at a loss, what to do. Suggestions anyone? Fitter doesn't want to do it but I think I am going to insist we try another shaft. He indicated that if I want that I may have to pay for the new shafts. That doesn't seem right but I can't play these clubs.  

IS that the clubhead speed or the ball speed?  I just went through the fitting process and picked Apex DCB with Tensei regular.  That seems pretty fast for the shaft you describe.  93 mph with a 7 iron would translate to well over 105 with a driver I suspect 

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On 3/5/2021 at 7:52 AM, WVheel1 said:

I will admit to being a real novice in club fitting. My direct response to him was I have never found a graphite club that I felt comfortable with. Again, looking at his data it appeared I was hitting the 7 iron about 165-170, that just has not materialized on the course. A couple yards due to cold and wind I get but 15 yds! He wants to keep tinkering but I need some kind of resolution. I was supposed to play in a tournament the end of this month but i have already backed out. No way I can play to my index with these clubs.

Any time you are trying out a club on an electronic screen/trakman always bring your current club to establish that the machine is accurate.  I have bought several clubs that were great on the simulator but didn't match the performance on course.  If you know you hit your 7 iron 160 yards, then assume if the simulator says it was 160 then the new club can be accurately compared.  Without establishing that benchmark you can't trust the machine.

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  • 3 weeks later...

No offense intended, but this is one of the nuttiest threads I’ve read.  There’s just 2 pages of blind speculation.  Why?

 

if you want to know the answer, take the old irons and the new irons and get on trackman or GC quad and come back to tell us BALL NUMBERS (launch, speed, direction, spin, etc) between the irons.  THEN, maybe we can speculate as to what is good or bad, right or wrong.   Even if you have to just walk into a PGA superstore and pay for the time, at least you’ll have REAL data to base a decision and analysis on.  The way this thread is now is of no use to anyone honestly.  

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