Driver swingspeed doesn't match up with 6i speed

[getitdaily]

Trackman shows pga tour avgs for driver at 113 and 6i at 92 mph.

 

Now that I have a ss radar, I'm able to see where I stand. My 6i swingspeed on the range is 93. My driver is 107-109. 

 

I seem to be leaving driver speed on the table. Thoughts on why?

 

I'm thinking 1 of 2 potentials:

 

1. Hit instinct more with driver leads to a bit of early extension

2. Lateral slide is worse with driver and I lose that extra bit of speed at the bottom with driver by not swinging into a stacked left side

[clevited]

SSR isn't accurate for those measurements.  It can be accurate against itself but not vs Trackman for instance.  You will be much better served by either saving the money and getting a better machine like Mevo+, or GCquad, or GC2-HMT or finding a place that has one of those that you can rent time on.  

 

As an example,  I can make SSR read 142 with my driver.  In reality, I am nowhere near that.  It gets more off the faster you swing and the more flippy you are.

 

Edit: Less expensive options, try a Swing Caddie SC100, SC200 or SC300, PRGR or a Garmin G80.  Those will give you much more accurate and consistent swing measurements when hitting a ball vs the SSR.

Edited March 5, 2021 by clevited

[Myherobobhope]

40 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Trackman shows pga tour avgs for driver at 113 and 6i at 92 mph.

 

Now that I have a ss radar, I'm able to see where I stand. My 6i swingspeed on the range is 93. My driver is 107-109. 

 

I seem to be leaving driver speed on the table. Thoughts on why?

 

I'm thinking 1 of 2 potentials:

 

1. Hit instinct more with driver leads to a bit of early extension

2. Lateral slide is worse with driver and I lose that extra bit of speed at the bottom with driver by not swinging into a stacked left side

Those are averages and not necessarily a guide... I have a trackman 7i CHS of 96 mph... my driver swing speed is 115... Pros also tend to swing at what they consider 80% effort... and 80% effort probably varies wildly from driver to 6 iron.

 

If you want to improve driver distance, you have a couple different options... Speed sticks are popular, as they are fairly low commitment and seem to have consistent results... Physical training (shout out to Fit for Golf) is super helpful and something I'd be doing anyways... might as well base my program on building speed if I'm in the gym anyways.

 

I think the most overlooked option is calibrating your numbers on a launch monitor. Figuring out how to utilize Angle of Attack to improve distance without adding speed, as well as making sure your launch and spin are as close to optimized as you can get them... These don't require a change in equipment, but can be done with some tweaking and a simulator. 

 

Speed is great, and there are resources to build it... but you are chasing distance, not speed, so don't leave options on the table.

[getitdaily]

My driver ss is 107-109. I have tested on trackman and I regularly hit balls on a gcquad. The ssr is accurate for what it read while hitting balls. 

 

Thus my question on potentials for a touch slower speed when compared to 6i swing. Something else kicked up this thought. I hit several 6 irons a touch heavy (EE) and the swing speed came down. So I believe that with driver I'm just a bit early on the release. But not sure why.

 

Interestingly, my fastest driver swings were when I made a concerted effort to swing my hands low and left (the swing thought I often have to employ when I first start off a range session). 

 

Fwiw, I'm scratch so swing mechanics are fairly solid. Just something in the downswing with driver that seems to be slowing me down a touch. Have been working with superspeed sticks for a month as well.

[clevited]

3 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

My driver ss is 107-109. I have tested on trackman and I regularly hit balls on a gcquad. The ssr is accurate for what it read while hitting balls. 

 

Thus my question on potentials for a touch slower speed when compared to 6i swing. Something else kicked up this thought. I hit several 6 irons a touch heavy (EE) and the swing speed came down. So I believe that with driver I'm just a bit early on the release. But not sure why.

 

Interestingly, my fastest driver swings were when I made a concerted effort to swing my hands low and left (the swing thought I often have to employ when I first start off a range session). 

 

Fwiw, I'm scratch so swing mechanics are fairly solid. Just something in the downswing with driver that seems to be slowing me down a touch. Have been working with superspeed sticks for a month as well.

 

Ok, would have been good to lead with that instead of mentioning the SSR as it is widely known to be almost worthless for getting definitive information for comparisons like this.  For you it is reasonably accurate, for most it is not.

 

With that, it could be an early release, or it could be other things.  Could be a mental issue that just doesn't allow you to get more out of your driver.  It could be that your irons are lighter than typical tour irons, it could be that your drive is heavier than typical tour drivers.  There are so many things that it could be.  I also tend to think that tour players generally aren't taking as full speed of swings with any iron vs their driver.  I would guess most iron shots are 80% to 85% effort, and driver shots might be closer to 90-95% effort, maybe even 100%.  If you tend to swing all shots with equal effort, that might also be a source of discrepancy.  This is all assuming your 6i numbers are accurate to what the SSR says too. 

[cardoustie]

Good post

 

I am a 92 with 7i guy with the same driver speed range as you

 

I am working with swing speed max over the winter

 

I want to get to 115 myself with the big stick

 

From what i see playing with very fast swingers, their swings are efficient and maximize rotational forces

[getitdaily]

3 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Ok, would have been good to lead with that instead of mentioning the SSR as it is widely known to be almost worthless for getting definitive information for comparisons like this.  For you it is reasonably accurate, for most it is not.

 

With that, it could be an early release, or it could be other things.  Could be a mental issue that just doesn't allow you to get more out of your driver.  It could be that your irons are lighter than typical tour irons, it could be that your drive is heavier than typical tour drivers.  There are so many things that it could be.  I also tend to think that tour players generally aren't taking as full speed of swings with any iron vs their driver.  I would guess most iron shots are 80% to 85% effort, and driver shots might be closer to 90-95% effort, maybe even 100%.  If you tend to swing all shots with equal effort, that might also be a source of discrepancy.  This is all assuming your 6i numbers are accurate to what the SSR says too. 

I do tend to swing with the same effort from about 7i up to driver. The only real time I try to go after a driver is if I want to hit a draw (I'm a fader). I'll have to keep working with the radar to find what the cause is using suggestions here. I'm willing to bet the 4-6 mph I'm leaving behind are a combination of points 1 and 2 in my original post 

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Good post

 

I am a 92 with 7i guy with the same driver speed range as you

 

I am working with swing speed max over the winter

 

I want to get to 115 myself with the big stick

 

From what i see playing with very fast swingers, their swings are efficient and maximize rotational forces

Yeah, I saw some of that rotational speed difference yesterday. It was why I believe in have a small flaw with driver. 

 

I tend to get a bit lateral on the backswing. Yesterday that lateral move was worse than other days. But I resolved it about halfway through the basket of balls. After half a basket I got my pivot more centered than lateral and everything improved. I didn't put the radar down for those last bit of balls though. With driver I know I setup a bit more behind the ball and likely have more lateral shift in the backswing leading to more lateral shift in the downswing - less rotation. I fight this all the time and I know that lateral slide robs me of speed and is the reason my driver can get a bit wonky at times. It's usually really good but there's an occasional swing or occasional day where I hit some loose shots with the driver.

Edited March 5, 2021 by getitdaily

[ryan84]

My guess would be mental. I am guessing you are pretty confident with 6i and can put close to full effort into it while still being confident on direction. With driver you may have some limitations due to the natural increased in severity of misses, making you hold back from your true speed potential. Just a guess.

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, ryan84 said:

My guess would be mental. I am guessing you are pretty confident with 6i and can put close to full effort into it while still being confident on direction. With driver you may have some limitations due to the natural increased in severity of misses, making you hold back from your true speed potential. Just a guess.

Very possible. A little more guided maybe....about 4-6 mph worth of guidedness...

[ferrispgm]

I would say that subconsciously you are trying too hard to hit the driver straight and swinging easier to do so.  Driver is meant to smash with at least 90% of max speed.   If you can't hit it fairly straight you need to work on your swing.  The other possibility is that you may be trying too hard to hit it hard and creating a swing flaw of sorts that's robbing you of speed. 

[b.mattay]

I'm going to say it is likely an attempt to guide driver or a steep shaft in transition that causes a lack of pivot through the shot. Just conjecture though! Video would help the instructors who hang around here! 
 

I'm kind of in the other boat where driver speed is proportionally fast to irons. My 7i is around 92-93 and driver  is at 120.

[Krt22]

certain flaws get magnified with certain clubs. I get too tilty, which robs me of speed with driver since the compensations to square the face get more extreme. I'm in the same boat, I swing 7i faster than pga tour avg, but driver is lagging.

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Yeah, I saw some of that rotational speed difference yesterday. It was why I believe in have a small flaw with driver. 

 

I tend to get a bit lateral on the backswing. Yesterday that lateral move was worse than other days. But I resolved it about halfway through the basket of balls. After half a basket I got my pivot more centered than lateral and everything improved. I didn't put the radar down for those last bit of balls though. With driver I know I setup a bit more behind the ball and likely have more lateral shift in the backswing leading to more lateral shift in the downswing - less rotation. I fight this all the time and I know that lateral slide robs me of speed and is the reason my driver can get a bit wonky at times. It's usually really good but there's an occasional swing or occasional day where I hit some loose shots with the driver.

What's your AoA?  Do you make a concerted effort to swing up with driver?  I find that for myself, the higher my AoA is up to a certain point, the faster my ss becomes.  Also, do you squat into the ball like the guys on tour do these days?  That's also another way to add ss as well. 

[getitdaily]

31 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

I would say that subconsciously you are trying too hard to hit the driver straight and swinging easier to do so.  Driver is meant to smash with at least 90% of max speed.   If you can't hit it fairly straight you need to work on your swing.  The other possibility is that you may be trying too hard to hit it hard and creating a swing flaw of sorts that's robbing you of speed. 

I think it's the latter. I don't really hold back. I don't go 100% an any swing ,really, bit I don't really hold back either. That's a recipe for disaster with the driver...I use tee height to take a little off if I need to. 

[getitdaily]

17 minutes ago, b.mattay said:

I'm going to say it is likely an attempt to guide driver or a steep shaft in transition that causes a lack of pivot through the shot. Just conjecture though! Video would help the instructors who hang around here! 
 

I'm kind of in the other boat where driver speed is proportionally fast to irons. My 7i is around 92-93 and driver  is at 120.

I want to get to 112-115. So if I can get there without having to train with the speed sticks I just bought then I'll sell them...lol

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

What's your AoA?  Do you make a concerted effort to swing up with driver?  I find that for myself, the higher my AoA is up to a certain point, the faster my ss becomes.  Also, do you squat into the ball like the guys on tour do these days?  That's also another way to add ss as well. 

My AoA is 2-3 up. Any more than that and I get wild. I don't try to do any squat move. Because I fight that lateral shift, the more i try to get active with my legs, the more i slide and get wild. 

 

Definitely believe my driver speed loss is tied to some unnecessary lateral movement that I've been working on. 

[phizzy30]

2 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

My AoA is 2-3 up. Any more than that and I get wild. I don't try to do any squat move. Because I fight that lateral shift, the more i try to get active with my legs, the more i slide and get wild. 

 

Definitely believe my driver speed loss is tied to some unnecessary lateral movement that I've been working on. 

2 to 3 degrees is actually perfect for driver IMO.  I think that once you have your lateral movement issues figured out, you will be able to generate more ss.  Good luck to you bro. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by phizzy30

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, phizzy30 said:

2 to 3 degrees is actually perfect for driver IMO.  I think that once you have your lateral movement issues figured out, you will be able to generate more ss.  Good luck to you bro. 

I agree 100%. I may actually be able to get more squat feel if I can eliminate the lateral move in the backswing and rotate better. 

[hoselpalooza]

6 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Trackman shows pga tour avgs for driver at 113 and 6i at 92 mph.

 

Now that I have a ss radar, I'm able to see where I stand. My 6i swingspeed on the range is 93. My driver is 107-109. 

 

I seem to be leaving driver speed on the table. Thoughts on why?

 

I'm thinking 1 of 2 potentials:

 

1. Hit instinct more with driver leads to a bit of early extension

2. Lateral slide is worse with driver and I lose that extra bit of speed at the bottom with driver by not swinging into a stacked left side

 

i just went through this. faster than average 6i but slower than average driver. started weight training and speed training and added 6mph-8mph CHS to driver very quickly (irons also got faster). i think it was a combination of getting stronger and training my body to get comfortable swinging faster. good luck!

[cardoustie]

Check two things for me

- steepness of shoulder turn, so many guys I see are too flat 

- right hip depth going away

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Check two things for me

- steepness of shoulder turn, so many guys I see are too flat 

- right hip depth going away

Right hip too deep too early or not deep enough?

[cardoustie]

Not deep enough

its the anti Jason Day move

[getitdaily]

10 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Not deep enough

its the anti Jason Day move

I'm the opposite. I have this sit move to initiate my swing that annoys the crap out of me. I lower my but and start to open my hips as my arms and shoulders start to move back. It causes me to get my hands too deep too soon where I then have to lift the last half of my swing... i have to get my hand path working more down the line and risk disconnection. That move helps pull.my left shoulder into my right side and gets my pivot off center. Then I slide toward the target on the way down.

 

The quieter I keep my hips until hands are thigh high, the better. Problem is I've been doing that hip move for 127 years

[cardoustie]

Post your swing for Monte, he can fix in 3 seconds

[getitdaily]

15 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Post your swing for Monte, he can fix in 3 seconds

Monte needs to move to Orlando so I can work with him...lol

[GolfTurkey]

16 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Monte needs to move to Orlando so I can work with him...lol

That’s like a 1h45 drive to see iteachgolf...

[ElliotBradleyGolf]

First and most obvious has already been mentioned, SS radars can be off by a fair amount. Also the way they measure from face on would be different to a trackman measuring the middle of the head from down the line.

 

My main observation would be sequence. I had a few sessions with Lee Cox (long drive coach, well worth a follow on sm) and he told me when he gets aspiring long drivers come to him the first thing he gets is their max 6 iron speed. He said its a better indicator of speed potential as sequencing doesn't have to be as efficient as it does with a driver. Anecdotal of course, but possibly means you have the potential to swing your driver much faster if you can get the sequencing right. Go try speed sticks and/or a few lessons with a good coach and you could see your driver speed jump considerably.

[pinhigh27]

People are different. Just because you don't exactly match the ratio of avg pga tour pro doesn't mean something is wrong or you are limited. Maybe you swing irons faster relatively than a pga tour pro does. 

 

This isn't necessarily an issue. If your driver swing speed was 95, ok sure I get it but you're a few MPH off having the same ratio. Heck your driver could just be not a great fit for you and explain that. Or that is just you. Or the numbers could just be inaccurate. 

[glk]

12 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

People are different. Just because you don't exactly match the ratio of avg pga tour pro doesn't mean something is wrong or you are limited. Maybe you swing irons faster relatively than a pga tour pro does. 

 

This isn't necessarily an issue. If your driver swing speed was 95, ok sure I get it but you're a few MPH off having the same ratio. Heck your driver could just be not a great fit for you and explain that. Or that is just you. Or the numbers could just be inaccurate. 

Yes chasing tour averages for anything isn’t a good idea.

 

from Scott Lynn - he asked tour for pressure info and when he got back only averages he’d asked for std dev.    Below is the chart and his example of numbers that would give that average and std dev.     More would probably be hurt than bettered by chasing the average numbers.