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Very Confused about the differences between ProV1 and X


kjmtthws
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So it seems to me that for a long time the difference between the V and X was that X was "spinier" and thus better for a high speed player that didn't mind sacrificing a bit of long game distance for the short game spin around the green.. And that made sense to me.. 

 

Now I am all messed up -- but it seems like the two of them are closer in their profiles and thus there is only a small difference -- which doesn't make sense to me, why have two balls that are basically the same thing.. 

 

I am a mid speed player with about 105 mph with the driver that is trying to get more positive AOA with the driver (only about +1 AOA right now).. I play on bermuda greens all summer that can be firm at times, so I thought the added spin would be helpful, but don't hit it far enough to really give up too much on the long game.. Just super confused.. I am willing to play other brands as well, but the "X" version of balls always seem to be a bit "spinier" -- am I thinking of this the right way??

 

 

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Pro V1x is high spin on long game and short game, also high flight, with firmer feel.  Pro V1 is mid flight, soft feel, mid long game spin and high short game spin.  

 

There are so many variables that decide which ball is best for an individual based on their swing speed and the clubs they play.  You need to test them head to head and not just go by what the manufacturers tell you.  I have one set of irons that are ideal for Pro V1 as I generate enough spin with them but another set requires the Pro V1x to get the "proper" spin numbers.  

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The V1 and V1x are as close together as they've ever been. But like Titleist have been saying since at least 2013 (when I started playing the Pro V1x) the V1 has a slightly lower flight, the V1 is slightly softer. The only thing that has changed (according to Titleist) with the 2021 model is that Pro V1 now spins almost as much off irons and wedges as Pro V1x. The V1x is still slightly higher spin but not by much.

 

My own personal observation, having switched to Pro V1 this time after years with Pro V1x is that the Pro V1 is now engineered (dimples) to fly a little higher than it did in the past. Back in 2013, 2017 and 2019 versions even with my puny swing I could see that Pro V1 flew much lower than Pro V1x especially with the driver. WIth the 2021 version I can hardly see any peak height difference at all between them. To my eyes the Pro V1x flies just as high as before but the Pro V1 flight has been brought up a notch. But my eyes may be fooling me, it's only been a couple months and maybe 20 rounds for me so far. 

 

Bottom line IMHO is, if you really have a strong preference for the feel/sound of one of them versus the other then just go with the one you like. The performance differences have been whittled down to almost nothing, as least by amateur golfer standards. I tried both and like the Pro V1 feel/sound and the way the ball reacts around the greens a *lot* so I switched. Unlike in previous years, I don't feel like I'm paying price in lower flight or less carry distance.

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5 hours ago, kjmtthws said:

So it seems to me that for a long time the difference between the V and X was that X was "spinier" and thus better for a high speed player that didn't mind sacrificing a bit of long game distance for the short game spin around the green.. And that made sense to me.. 

 

Now I am all messed up -- but it seems like the two of them are closer in their profiles and thus there is only a small difference -- which doesn't make sense to me, why have two balls that are basically the same thing.. 

 

I am a mid speed player with about 105 mph with the driver that is trying to get more positive AOA with the driver (only about +1 AOA right now).. I play on bermuda greens all summer that can be firm at times, so I thought the added spin would be helpful, but don't hit it far enough to really give up too much on the long game.. Just super confused.. I am willing to play other brands as well, but the "X" version of balls always seem to be a bit "spinier" -- am I thinking of this the right way??

 

 

See this.  It explains the history and the fact that they basically flipped the characteristics of each in 2017.  For your purposes now, just look at the attached comparison chart after link.

https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2019/02/26/know-the-differences-titleist-pro-v1-pro-v1x-golf-ball-equipment.html

 

 

 

V1 vs V1X.jpg

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8 minutes ago, JFM628 said:

See this.  It explains the history and the fact that they basically flipped the characteristics of each in 2017.  For your purposes now, just look at the attached comparison chart after link.

https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2019/02/26/know-the-differences-titleist-pro-v1-pro-v1x-golf-ball-equipment.html

 

 

 

V1 vs V1X.jpg

Of course this is all relative.  The tests I have seen these differences are very minimal, although I do think I generally see a bit higher trajectory with the V1X off the driver.  The short game spin is so similar you would have to be a real savant to tell the difference.  

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And then you have the left dash...

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8 hours ago, North Butte said:

The V1 and V1x are as close together as they've ever been. But like Titleist have been saying since at least 2013 (when I started playing the Pro V1x) the V1 has a slightly lower flight, the V1 is slightly softer. The only thing that has changed (according to Titleist) with the 2021 model is that Pro V1 now spins almost as much off irons and wedges as Pro V1x. The V1x is still slightly higher spin but not by much.

 

My own personal observation, having switched to Pro V1 this time after years with Pro V1x is that the Pro V1 is now engineered (dimples) to fly a little higher than it did in the past. Back in 2013, 2017 and 2019 versions even with my puny swing I could see that Pro V1 flew much lower than Pro V1x especially with the driver. WIth the 2021 version I can hardly see any peak height difference at all between them. To my eyes the Pro V1x flies just as high as before but the Pro V1 flight has been brought up a notch. But my eyes may be fooling me, it's only been a couple months and maybe 20 rounds for me so far. 

 

Bottom line IMHO is, if you really have a strong preference for the feel/sound of one of them versus the other then just go with the one you like. The performance differences have been whittled down to almost nothing, as least by amateur golfer standards. I tried both and like the Pro V1 feel/sound and the way the ball reacts around the greens a *lot* so I switched. Unlike in previous years, I don't feel like I'm paying price in lower flight or less carry distance.

Exactly. Basically the same. Slightly lower flight with the PV1, slightly nicer to put and chip with.

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5 hours ago, 54CW said:

So there’s nothing wrong with my logic of picking red numbers because I think they way look better than black numbers?

Nothing wrong with your reasoning except the fact that black numbers obviously look much better than red numbers. I mean, who don't know that?🤔

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5 hours ago, 54CW said:

So there’s nothing wrong with my logic of picking red numbers because I think they way look better than black numbers?

 

With these two balls, that's about as big a difference as there is.  Both are great golf balls, and the performance differences are just very, very small.  Sound, and the color of the numbers is just about all. 🙂

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I have been playing ProV1 for years, ProV1x when I am in the hot conditions, and AVX in cold conditions. 

 

Finally, got a sleeve of NEW ProVs, and not sure if I like them.  ProV1 feels and sounds much different from the last ProV1 version in the bag.  Kinda bothersome because if supply of the old ball runs out, it may mean going to another ball.  It's really annoying when a company like Titleist keeps messing with the ball.  Sooner or later I am afraid they are going to come up far short of everyone's expectations forcing users to go elsewhere.

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You are thinking of it the right way - for Titleist at least, the X version is indeed spinnier. (This does not apply to all brands - see TP5x.) I'm a similar driver speed to you, and the difference in mid-iron spin should be a couple hundred RPMs, call it 2-ish yards carry. All that being said, they're very close in performance. I use them almost interchangeably when I have them around, and try and keep in mind the minor differences on the course. 

 

I did a Titleist online ball fitting last fall - I would recommend doing that if you're still confused (and if they're still doing it). You basically get a half hour to BS with a Titleist rep on Zoom, and as an equipment junkie I loved it. Sipped a whiskey, asked as many Titleist questions I had in my allotted time, did the virtual fitting, and got a confirmation the V1x is the ball I should be playing in the Titleist line. 

 

Interestingly enough, their messaging on the 2017 "flip" was that a flip never happened - they made their usual tweaks and communicated them poorly as an organization. The whole thing is so convoluted between what I understand now, what people think, and what the Titleist messaging was that I don't even remember what they said other than the above. Try and throw all that noise out, use that chart @JFM628 posted above, and test out both if you can. 

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2 hours ago, arenapoutine said:

Interestingly enough, their messaging on the 2017 "flip" was that a flip never happened - they made their usual tweaks and communicated them poorly as an organization. The whole thing is so convoluted between what I understand now, what people think, and what the Titleist messaging was that I don't even remember what they said other than the above. Try and throw all that noise out, use that chart @JFM628 posted above, and test out both if you can. 

They've had slight variations on that chart on the back of the boxes since at least 2013. There was no "switch" in 2017 but good luck convincing people on internet forums of that.

 

In 2017 Titleist had a bunch of marketing stuff about Tour players who had always played Pro V1x switching to Pro V1 or vice versa and that somehow got twisted into "the balls have switched". Whatever, the switch meme is now firmly established and will never go away.

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45 minutes ago, North Butte said:

They've had slight variations on that chart on the back of the boxes since at least 2013. There was no "switch" in 2017 but good luck convincing people on internet forums of that.

 

In 2017 Titleist had a bunch of marketing stuff about Tour players who had always played Pro V1x switching to Pro V1 or vice versa and that somehow got twisted into "the balls have switched". Whatever, the switch meme is now firmly established and will never go away.

You mean like when their product manager said they switched

 

https://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2019/02/26/know-the-differences-titleist-pro-v1-pro-v1x-golf-ball-equipment.html

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4 hours ago, North Butte said:

They've had slight variations on that chart on the back of the boxes since at least 2013. There was no "switch" in 2017 but good luck convincing people on internet forums of that.

 

In 2017 Titleist had a bunch of marketing stuff about Tour players who had always played Pro V1x switching to Pro V1 or vice versa and that somehow got twisted into "the balls have switched". Whatever, the switch meme is now firmly established and will never go away.

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The spin is comparable on both balls.  Biggest differences are feel and trajectory.  I would base the decision on those two performance characteristics only.

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7 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I have been playing ProV1 for years, ProV1x when I am in the hot conditions, and AVX in cold conditions. 

 

Finally, got a sleeve of NEW ProVs, and not sure if I like them.  ProV1 feels and sounds much different from the last ProV1 version in the bag.  Kinda bothersome because if supply of the old ball runs out, it may mean going to another ball.  It's really annoying when a company like Titleist keeps messing with the ball.  Sooner or later I am afraid they are going to come up far short of everyone's expectations forcing users to go elsewhere.

 

I understand completely.  That's how I ended up falling in love with Tour BX and BXS.

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I'm gonna add my .02

 

First, the guys at TXG did a great video on the differences between the new 2021 version of each ball. As many have said, the biggest difference is how much softer the Pro V1 has become.  Spin and Distance was almost identical on each club they hit. 

 

I picked up sleeves of each, along with Left Dash.  I have also been a very staunch Chrome Soft guy for the last 4 years. 

 

I have been going to a local Trackman facility here in the Twin Cities this winter and testing all four balls and I couldn't have been more blown away with how much better the Pro V1, for me, has come along in terms of feel. It is noticeably softer and goes longer than my former beloved Chrome Soft.  I've already switched and ordered the 4/3 deal on Pro V1.

 

You will absolutely notice the difference in feel and sound between the X and the Left Dash vs Pro V through the entire bag.  You might not notice too much of a difference in sound or feel between the X and Left Dash.  When you get to the putter, there is a noticeable difference in feel as you putt each one.  With the Left Dash the most firm. 

 

As always, buy a sleeve of each.  Test for yourself.  Your results may vary.

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Hadn't played a Titleist ball in years and with swingspeeds hovering around 90 , didn't think I actually could ......after watching most of the LPGA ladies use some variant and getting proper flight and spin , I figured what the heck....

 

Tried 15, 17 and 19X with the 19X coming out on top for me in regards to spin ,flight and consistency......I needed higher trajectory with a bit more stopping power and also as a by-product I saw some added distance over the softer balls .

 

Then I received a sleeve of the 21x and for ME, it flew higher, spun more and I lost control.....feels better yes but I've been told if you are moving from 19X then 21 V1 is actually closer in performance.....haven't tried the standard 21 ball yet and I've been stockpiling 19X . 

 

There's my story and I'm sticking to it

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33 minutes ago, SwooshLT said:

Hadn't played a Titleist ball in years and with swingspeeds hovering around 90 , didn't think I actually could ......after watching most of the LPGA ladies use some variant and getting proper flight and spin , I figured what the heck....

 

Tried 15, 17 and 19X with the 19X coming out on top for me in regards to spin ,flight and consistency......I needed higher trajectory with a bit more stopping power and also as a by-product I saw some added distance over the softer balls .

 

Then I received a sleeve of the 21x and for ME, it flew higher, spun more and I lost control.....feels better yes but I've been told if you are moving from 19X then 21 V1 is actually closer in performance.....haven't tried the standard 21 ball yet and I've been stockpiling 19X . 

 

There's my story and I'm sticking to it

For my game (90mph driver speed, lack of height and spin on mid-iron shots, similar to yours) in the 2013 and 2019 versions the Pro V1x clearly suited me better than the Pro V1. I never used the 2015 and with the 2017 version I didn't bother to compare the Pro V1x and Pro V1 (because the Pro V1x had always been my favorite). 

 

Up until this year, the Pro V1 clearly lacked height and stopping power on iron shots. It also flew lower off the driver which *seemed* to possibly be costing me some carry distance although that is hard to just in normal play. But there was no reason for me to give up the noticeably higher flight and slightly higher iron spin of the Pro V1x. 

 

But my "story" is pretty close to the one you're sticking to. I tried the 2021 Pro V1 versus my 2019 Pro V1x and it really narrowed the stopping power advantage for my game. I really can't tell any difference at all in how a 6-iron or 7-iron shot stops on a firm green between 2021 Pro V1 and 2019 Pro V1x. And I think the trajectory off the driver is up a notch for the 2021 compared to earlier Pro V1 models.

 

Bottom line...I like the way it sounds/feels, I like the way it behaves around the green and with wedges and I don't feel I'm giving up anything in return unlike in previous years. 

 

Even though my decision to switch has been made, as a final comparison I played nine holes on two different days comparing the 2021 Pro V1 and 2021 Pro V1x. There wasn't much difference in height or spin but the Pro V1x sounds/feels *much* firmer and I also felt that for some reason the Pro V1 loses less distance into the wind than Pro V1x (which of course may mean I'm wrong about the height and spin similarity!). 

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29 minutes ago, North Butte said:

For my game (90mph driver speed, lack of height and spin on mid-iron shots, similar to yours) in the 2013 and 2019 versions the Pro V1x clearly suited me better than the Pro V1. I never used the 2015 and with the 2017 version I didn't bother to compare the Pro V1x and Pro V1 (because the Pro V1x had always been my favorite). 

 

Up until this year, the Pro V1 clearly lacked height and stopping power on iron shots. It also flew lower off the driver which *seemed* to possibly be costing me some carry distance although that is hard to just in normal play. But there was no reason for me to give up the noticeably higher flight and slightly higher iron spin of the Pro V1x. 

 

But my "story" is pretty close to the one you're sticking to. I tried the 2021 Pro V1 versus my 2019 Pro V1x and it really narrowed the stopping power advantage for my game. I really can't tell any difference at all in how a 6-iron or 7-iron shot stops on a firm green between 2021 Pro V1 and 2019 Pro V1x. And I think the trajectory off the driver is up a notch for the 2021 compared to earlier Pro V1 models.

 

Bottom line...I like the way it sounds/feels, I like the way it behaves around the green and with wedges and I don't feel I'm giving up anything in return unlike in previous years. 

 

Even though my decision to switch has been made, as a final comparison I played nine holes on two different days comparing the 2021 Pro V1 and 2021 Pro V1x. There wasn't much difference in height or spin but the Pro V1x sounds/feels *much* firmer and I also felt that for some reason the Pro V1 loses less distance into the wind than Pro V1x (which of course may mean I'm wrong about the height and spin similarity!). 

 

 

Very nice......yeah, the 21x compared to 19x definitely "stands up" more and less stable FOR ME into the wind....19v1 definitely flights lower/ more penetrating.....but again ,I need best possible stopping power and very happy with 19x 

 

I MIGHT try a sleeve of 21v1 but I'm kinda dialed in with 19x ......but please keep sharing thoughts and insight!

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On 3/6/2021 at 6:25 PM, GoGoErky said:

Exactly....but wtf do they know about their own product?

 

Originally, when Pro V1x was introduced, it was introduced to be a lower-spinning but higher-flying golf ball (than the Pro V1),” Fredrick Waddell, Senior Manager of Titleist Golf Ball Product Management, told PGATOUR.COM.

That relationship remained for the next 14 years.

With the release of its 2017 Pro V1 and Pro V1x golf balls, however, Titleist switched the script. The relationship between the two golf balls changed. The 2017 Pro V1x was a higher-spinning, and still higher-flying, golf ball than the 2017 Pro V1. Some golfers didn’t realize the change, while others were simply perplexed.

“There was a little confusion at first because it’s been, for such a long time, X was always the lower-spin golf ball,” said Fordie Pitts, Titleist’s Golf Ball R&D rep. “(Even for TOUR players), we had some guys look at us like ‘Really?’ We’re looking at some high-speed, high-spin players, going up to them saying, ‘Hey, you should be considering the Pro V1 ball,’ and they’re like ‘Pro V1, what are you kidding me? I would spin that (way too much).’ But no, no, no. It took some guys a little bit to get comfortable with it.”

 

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Forgive me for not reading the whole thread....

where does the Left Dash fit? Firmer  feel I believe but what about driver spin, iron spin and short game spin?

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