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Can’t pivot properly to save my life


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Short disclaimer; I’ve always been a down the line release guy mainly caused by stall and timely flip - that led me to a single cap but nowhere near scratch... and I’ve been working for half a year or so on trying to ingrain more of a rotational release - pivot driving... swing thoughts are; lead pressure by P5 / Rose drill to sync up / hold trail wrist extension / rotate through... but as you can see I can’t exit low and left to save my life (only able to do so on 9-3 drills and slowed down full swings) - and I’m trying to find the root cause... anything glaring that you see? Thanks guys!

 

Also dealing with unusual pulls; but playing here with strong lead grip + neutral trail which kinda explain it when the flip happens at the bottom...

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I’d like to see a face on, but it’s a sequencing issue.  Hip turn reaches max rotation too early in the backswing and arms are late in accelerating in transition .

 

Left arm and hands are too close to the body from P5-P6

 

The changes needed are subtle, which is more difficult to pin down feel wise.  
 

If your hip turn started later, your arms swing was a bit shorter and you allowed your left arm to accelerate earlier, you’d be forced to open up more.

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Bend over more, bend knees less. Hip center behind ankles and armpits/ hands too close to body.     Have ee which gets everything closer to ball but as monte noted the sequence is off - your arms are around p5.5 when knees get square and this should happen by p5. So between setup and ee you aren’t giving your arms much space thru Impact.   Soon as right hip comes out your pelvis moves toward ball and you back chest away to make room so you extend right arm early to get to ball and don’t right side bend until after impact.   
 

this can help for setup.   
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLepiR2F026/

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

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6 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I’d like to see a face on, but it’s a sequencing issue.  Hip turn reaches max rotation too early in the backswing and arms are late in accelerating in transition .

 

Left arm and hands are too close to the body from P5-P6

 

The changes needed are subtle, which is more difficult to pin down feel wise.  
 

If your hip turn started later, your arms swing was a bit shorter and you allowed your left arm to accelerate earlier, you’d be forced to open up more.

To paraphrase a bit but; this guy is good!

 

WoW... exactly what I’m trying to ingrain - a ‘hands down’ faster version of the Rose drill... by either shortening the distance they have to reach back to sync up and/or having them reconnecting faster (and better overall speed)

 

A face on view would show a bit too much of a slide - because the thought is to delay opening in transition (to try and ‘cover the ball’ & pivot through!)... but the lead hip keeps drifting in that meantime (and definitely not helping the pivot)... practice thought is on ‘recentering’ earlier / max lead pressure forward-left by P5 at the latest!

 

These are definitely two things that I don’t have to worry about with 9-3 drills (and/or slow motion full swings)... which explains it a lot

 

Just to be clear on the lead arm / hands too close to the body at P5-P6 (especially P6); this is a result of the earlier faults mentioned above - and not something I should try do consciously ‘to swing them out’ right?... they’ll get further just by better sequencing / sync up - and allow a better pivot

 

Interesting catch on the hip turn in the backswing - I’m starting its pushback consciously right off the bat to kill the swaying possibilities - but it causes a disconnection with ripple effects it seems... I’ll try and work on that - also haha

 

Thanks again - very helpful... I know it’s a long journey but it’ll pay off in the long run!

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8 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

I’m interested to see what the more knowledgeable say. Can’t see much other than if you stopped your arm swing a fraction sooner your arms would be more in front of you and it would be easier to “turn the corner”

Agreed - and mentioned by others also (basically having them reconnect earlier); good catch

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13 minutes ago, glk said:

Bend over more, bend knees less. Hip center behind ankles and armpits/ hands too close to body.     Have ee which gets everything closer to ball but as monte noted the sequence is off - your arms are around p5.5 when knees get square and this should happen by p5. So between setup and ee you aren’t giving your arms much space thru Impact.   Soon as right hip comes out your pelvis moves toward ball and you back chest away to make room so you extend right arm early to get to ball and don’t right side bend until after impact.   
 

this can help for setup.   
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLepiR2F026/

Great explanation - and I agree completely... just to be clear; is EE a result of the incorrect sequence earlier (arms not accelerating down fast enough to reconnect) - or it’s a problem on it’s own? (trying to consciously pushback the lead hip without the trail hip firing in)...

 

I’ll definitely work on that setup/posture as you mention (been practicing the Bobby Jones drill; as close as possible to the ball and it surely trickles down) - better clean that up

 

You’re right also on EE causing the ‘lost of angle’ and no right side bend ->running out of right arm... down the line release

 

Thanks for the reply and link - back to work; 1% better!

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Make 3/4 back and 1/2 thru swings.   Arms don't need to accelerate first foot of transition as much as they need to connect back to body,  it's only a dropping of sorts, then once it connects to body all systems go.  If the arms dropped and connected properly  just keep going from there and low/ left is nearly a given.

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Just now, MtlJayMan said:

Great explanation - and I agree completely... just to be clear; is EE a result of the incorrect sequence earlier (arms not accelerating down fast enough to reconnect) - or it’s a problem on it’s own? (trying to consciously pushback the lead hip without the trail hip firing in)...

 

I’ll definitely work on that setup/posture as you mention (been practicing the Bobby Jones drill; as close as possible to the ball and it surely trickles down) - better clean that up

 

You’re right also on EE causing the ‘lost of angle’ and no right side bend ->running out of right arm... down the line release

 

Thanks for the reply and link - back to work; 1% better!

I think the ee/setup is a separate issue but maybe a contributor to sequence.    I’ve found that being “in synch” going back is just as important as in downswing - so a hip turn that leads the ribcage/arms can lead to issues in transition.   I like drills that work an in synch backswing - small range bucket or ball between upper arms is a good one, or putting butt of club into your stomach, grip down, and make backswings.
 

 I know that I have to check setup regularly cause my past had a too upright setup - when I get my armpits more out to my toes and my hands just past it makes a big difference in my ability to rotate and make room.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

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4 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

Make 3/4 back and 1/2 thru swings.   Arms don't need to accelerate first foot of transition as much as they need to connect back to body,  it's only a dropping of sorts, then once it connects to body all systems go.  If the arms dropped and connected properly  just keep going from there and low/ left is nearly a given.

Thanks for the reply - we have a consensus on the reconnecting the arms to the body

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4 minutes ago, glk said:

I think the ee/setup is a separate issue but maybe a contributor to sequence.    I’ve found that being “in synch” going back is just as important as in downswing - so a hip turn that leads the ribcage/arms can lead to issues in transition.   I like drills that work an in synch backswing - small range bucket or ball between upper arms is a good one, or putting butt of club into your stomach, grip down, and make backswings.
 

 I know that I have to check setup regularly cause my past had a too upright setup - when I get my armpits more out to my toes and my hands just past it makes a big difference in my ability to rotate and make room.

Yes I’ve seen those drills that you posted; with the butt end of the club in the stomach... for a better backswing sequence... surely has a lot of ripple effects (that and setup)... I’ll work on cleaning that up; to help with EE and sequencing later on

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  • 2 weeks later...

Following the great advices here – been working the last few weeks on:

·         cleaning setup;

·         takeaway – going for a more connected initial sequence (still need to focus on this as lead forearm rotation starts too soon, disconnect with trail hip rotation -> arms lift from P2.5 / P3 on, not enough depth, laid off)

·         transition – thoughts on zipper away to try and fight EE + fast arms Rose drill -> hoping for more rooms for the arms with internal trail shoulder & trail wrist extension in order to pivot through (but with combination of zipper away + arms acceleration, feel is way closed and 'sliding'; I definitely can’t get knees squared with arms by P5 still – only P5.5ish)

 

You can see that there are some sequencing issues / syncing up cause I can’t pivot through (low and left) still – and exhibit the ‘spiderman’ follow-through (lead wrist extended as soon as it reappears) coming from the flip / DTL release and can’t post up in an umbrella finish to save my life (unless it’s a slow motion or 9-3 swing)… FO view also to see tilt and how it’s too much of a lead shoulder posting up and not enough 'around the corner'…

 

Any other glaring deficiencies or still working on the same issues initially mentioned here?

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At setup your right hand is lower than your left hand CORRECTLY resulting in your shoulders slightly tilting away from the target, but your spine is vertical as indicated by the position of your head and sternum .

So FIRST you need to SLIGHTLY  tilt your spine ( and head ) away from the target at setup.

Going back you sway load resulting in loading high on your right hip , instead of loading correctly into your right foot.This sway results in a small reverse pivot at the top( spine tilting slightly towards the target ).While many top golfers do have an initial lateral movement at the hips, this lateral move is small  and is complete very early in the backswing. By the time they have reached the top, there is a noticeable space between the outside of the right hip and its position at setup.You do NOT achieve a similar position.

Please refer to the two stills of Adam Scott at 7:30 and 9:00 and compare these to your positions.

 

So SECOND you need to  minimize any swaying going back and just rotate .

 

The best ball strikers start their transition via rotation of the left hip. Because left hip rotation will AlWAYS  result in rotation of the left knee, the marker for left hip rotation is left knee rotation.Your swing does NOT show this movement in transition.

Instead  you start your transition via a significant slide of your pelvis with the distance between your knees actually narrowing a little with no noticeable rotation of the lead knee.

So THIRD you need to initiate your transition via LEFT hip rotation not via a pelvic slide .  It would behoove you to study the left hip rotation that George Gankas teaches.A still is included below. He describes this initial move very well in his youtube video

”George Gankas downswing formula golf swing tips.

 

Swinging left is ALWAYS a result , NOT a goal per se. it results from the upper arms being connected to the torso at impact with your torso turning left

 

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1CDAA49C-3C4B-4A14-9490-23020BEDA1A1.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, MtlJayMan said:

Understood - and I'm wondering at times if it plays a part; definitely can't 'feel' the ground forces reactions when practising there

 

I think it does show that you don't utilize the ground in your swing.  I know I certainly didn't for a very long time.  It completely changed how I viewed and understood the swing, especially transition move.  Really hit home for me after watching tour players at the range and seeing the indents in the ground from their feet.    

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12 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

Going back you sway load resulting in loading high on your right hip , instead of loading correctly into your right foot.This sway results [...] this lateral move is small and is complete very early in the backswing. By the time they have reached the top, there is a noticeable space between the outside of the right hip and its position at setup.

 

So SECOND you need to  minimize any swaying going back and just rotate .

 

The best ball strikers start their transition via rotation of the left hip. Because left hip rotation will AlWAYS  result in rotation of the left knee, the marker for left hip rotation is left knee rotation.Your swing does NOT show this movement in transition.

Instead  you start your transition via a significant slide of your pelvis with the distance between your knees actually narrowing a little with no noticeable rotation of the lead knee.

So THIRD you need to initiate your transition via LEFT hip rotation not via a pelvic slide .  It would behoove you to study the left hip rotation that George Gankas teaches.A still is included below. He describes this initial move very well in his youtube video

”George Gankas downswing formula golf swing tips.

 

Swinging left is ALWAYS a result , NOT a goal per se. it results from the upper arms being connected to the torso at impact with your torso turning left

 

 

5 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

I think it does show that you don't utilize the ground in your swing.  I know I certainly didn't for a very long time.  It completely changed how I viewed and understood the swing, especially transition move.  Really hit home for me after watching tour players at the range and seeing the indents in the ground from their feet.    

Very good observations the sway/silde comment (always trying to get these under control and find it difficult when practising with thoughts of 'zipper away') coming from not loading into the right foot in takeaway and excessive pelvic slide (and not rotation) in transition... + the comment about not utilizing the ground correctly... go hand in hand in my mind; and definitely something to focus on (rather than too much on body+arms+hands positions and clubhead momentum)... thanks!

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Your shaft getting to parallel at the top doesn't look like it fits your swing...

 

Looks like you should stop short of parallel and you're over doing it..... meaning you are loosing control of the club at the top

 

If your lookin for a little extra power by letting your wrists or hands go or whatever is doing it, I would reign them in cause you don't need it for power and you'll gain a lot more control over the club and accuracy.

 

 

But what do I know I'm not an instructor just a golf bum with a toothpick in my mouth

Edited by Barfolomew
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6 hours ago, Barfolomew said:

Your shaft getting to parallel at the top doesn't look like it fits your swing...

 

Looks like you should stop short of parallel and you're over doing it..... meaning you are loosing control of the club at the top

 

If your lookin for a little extra power by letting your wrists or hands go or whatever is doing it, I would reign them in cause you don't need it for power and you'll gain a lot more control over the club and accuracy.

Interesting... so in essence a shorter backswing in order to stay connected and have a better sequence; transition / pivot / release

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