Golfers / Tennis elbow - not a question about treatment

[anth]

My game is currently awful. I haven’t broken my handicap in a year (we had no golf for a long time because of COVID). That wasn’t so bad because I had some neck issues and it looks like I have osteoarthritis, so the rest allowed me to heal.

 

During lockdown I upgraded from Srixon 765/965 to 785/Z-Forged in graphite shafts to help with the vibrations. I was using a lightweight shaft anyway and have found the move to Recoil 95 fairly seamless.

 

During my lay off I saw a neurosurgeon who made me do a nerve conduction test. Results were that there was some blocked nerves in the elbow.

 

I’m fairly certain it’s tennis or golfers elbow and I’m seeing an Osteo to help with treatment.  But my question isn’t about that. It’s more about the impact that tennis or golfers elbow had on your game.

 

When looking at the reasons for my poor play I’ve identified that it’s mostly related to my approach play.  My driving is still solid and my short game and putting are hot and cold as they’ve always been.

 

What’s really hurting my scores is my inability to hit my clubs certain distances.  If you don’t know how far it’s going golf is tough. To that end my mid irons through wedges are much shorter than they’ve been in the past. I’m trying to understand why.

 

Do the new clubs/shafts not suit me? It doesn’t seem much of change but are the Z-Forged a little more demanding than the 965?

 

Or, and this is what I’m now starting to think, is the pain in the elbow causing me to “flinch” just before impact, perhaps even subconsciously, and I’m just not getting through the ball as strongly as I used to?

 

Those of you who’ve played through tennis/golfers elbow - did you find this in your game?  That not only did it hurt, but it also affected the quality of your strike?

 

[Hawkeye77]

I'm sure you will, but I'd urge you to discuss the golf in the context of the symptoms and diagnosis with a doctor who has some sports medicine background and specializes in treatment of elbow issues.  But elbow specialist at a minimum.  Not sure why "golfers/tennis" elbow in the title, you don't know which it is?  They are different things and depending on which elbow may have different possible consequences for golf.

 

Just like all elbows are different and all patients unique so too are impacts on the golf game.  So I'm reluctant to say much.  I had surgery on my left elbow to address a tennis elbow issue a year ago - right handed golfer.  For two seasons prior the elbow was a problem and played through a combination of cortisone, Advil and a band around the top of my forearm.  Iron play is where it affected me the most when it hurt and even when it didn't I did have to fight picking the ball, fearing ground contact and knowing the pain of an occasional chunk on hard turf.  Post surgery (not totally successful, different story) I now have a different kind of soreness and pain in the elbow but not as bad as it was.  But, I found myself really not getting along with taking divots with my irons last season - first it was purely getting used to swinging again and took that very slowly, and ironically started out playing so well (but played little by comparison with any other year and spent almost zero time on the range) my handicap got down to its record low, but it didn't last and I was having a terrible time taking my normal divots with my irons - I was simply afraid to hit the ground.  

 

Good news is I took the time on the range (with limited shots each time) to get some things back to where they should be, cut back play a bit, and by the end of the season I wasn't having the contact fear any more and sometimes my elbow was sore and sometimes it wasn't so who the heck knows there - point being I was able to take solid iron swings and without my mind getting in the way.  Felt good enough to have a driver, fairway, hybrid fitting - so everything off tees and outdoors, but no ill effects and didn't overdo it.

 

I play Recoil 95s in F4 and had made the switch before I had any problem.  Can't speak to your game and no info is provided that is very specific, but I'd guess your issues are all related to the elbow.  Having said that, when I first noticed the pain (and thought nothing of it) I tried making myself get along with some Recoil 110s in some new irons I hadn't been fitted for, which were too stout for me and boy did I really start to notice I had an issue playing those too much and too long to start the '18 season. So I suppose it is possible that you and you 95s don't get along.  I doubt it.  I've tried the 95 in F3 and saw no difference in how the shaft affects me physically but shorter distance and excess spin.  Whatever - lighter weight graphite is here to stay for me. 

 

That's my golf experience - hope you figure it out.  See a specialist.

[anth]

Thanks for the detailed post.

 

I’m not sure if it’s tennis or golfers elbow. I will discuss this week with the Osteopath. I’ve not thought it was an independent injury - I’ve thought it was all related to my spine issues.  I had a bulging disc that was sending pain down my arm and causing a tingling sensation in my fingers - I saw a surgeon who didn’t think it required surgery and it did settle down over the extended break.

 

Now I feel like I have all these other joint related issues.  I feel much older than 44!

 

I guess I could have independently acquired the elbow injury at the same time, but it does feel like all these issues with my spine, elbow, hands are related.

 

It’s comforting to know that you also experienced issues with your iron play.  We are coming off summer down here and the course is the hardest it’s been and the lies are very bare. It doesn’t help with the fear that’s for sure

[phizzy30]

I have had golfer's elbow in the past.  It really hurt to hit my irons but not so much off the tee.  I would stay away from driving ranges with mats.  I had to rest it 6 weeks before the pain subsided.  I've had several injuries both minor and major throughout my life due to bodybuilding in the past.  You may not realize it, but your body compensates for any sports related movement when you have injuries.  It usually makes your swing worse.  Prime example would be Brooks Koepka with his bad knee.  As for quality of strike, I would hit the ball all over the face but mostly toe side.  It didn't get better until I stopped playing golf for awhile. 

[CDLgolf]

Yes by the end of the golf season Im sure I would flinch before hitting shots. The pain would be so bad I couldn't pick up a glass of water.  Glad I had a 5 month off season to heal up.

 

Just fyi the difference is with tennis elbow the pain is on the outside of your elbow and golfers elbow the pain is on the inside of your elbow.

 

For me graphite shafts cured it completely and I haven't had symptoms in several years.

[TheGolfingRealtor]

I am 8 weeks post op for tennis elbow and I  will have the other elbow done after the upcoming season. 
 

I had the symptoms for 6 years before being formally diagnosed. I tried every conservative alternative during those 6 years and nothing helped. Ironically the final straw was when I was fishing with my 6 year old and I tried to cast side arm under a tree branch. Well that did something and I couldn’t play the rest of the year. 
 

I’m supposed to be resting for another 4 weeks but yesterday went to the store and hit balls for about 2 hours. The elbow feels great so far. The driver, fairway, hybrids all good. I picked up some speed and distance. Something about the irons and wedges leads me to get flippy. I’m just afraid to go down and get it so speed and distance is lacking.
 

Even with 8 weeks off for my non surgically repaired elbow, that did nothing to relieve the symptoms. It actually made it worse because I was using that arm to do everything. 
 

The surgery is only 80% successful and I think for some people, it never goes away. I don’t think I will know if it worked until sometime in the spring of 2022. 

[anth]

These elbow injuries really suck.

 

By the way I just went to the driving range and hit 175 balls. I was almost trying to bring on the pain because I have an appointment on Wednesday and as it stands I am pain free.  Even after the range and 175 balls off mats!

 

Yet on the weekend I’m 3 holes in and my elbow is really hurting.  I don’t get it...

 

Was your pain constant?

[Aviador Naval]

I went through this issue about 8 yrs ago.  Wasn’t formally diagnosed and at times both the inside and outside of my left elbow hurt (right handed golfer).  I was hitting a lot of balls off mats at the time with a fairly steep swing.  I was also playing straight PX shafts which has caused some folks some issues.  Hard to say for sure but I suspect root cause was the volume of balls from poor quality mats.

 

At its worst, I had trouble holding a glass of water firmly - but, at the same time, on many days, I could pre-load some Motrin and complete a round of golf without issue.  In the end, I became a substantial flincher on mid and short iron shots and struggled to stay down and through the ball.

 

I laid off golf for a while then eased back in by practicing short game only.  I had my clubs re-shafted to Recoil Prototypes but ultimately never got used to the feel.  I then eased back into steel with lighter and generally softer tipped shafts.  I’ve been pain free since and am now back to hitting moderate amounts of balls off mats - but only high quality ones.

 

It took me longer to overcome the flinching/thin contact on full speed iron shots than it did to overcome the pain.  It’s all behind me now but I intend to hedge my bets going forward with mid-light weight shafts and limited mat work.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Aviador Naval

[TheGolfingRealtor]

3 hours ago, anth said:

These elbow injuries really suck.

 

By the way I just went to the driving range and hit 175 balls. I was almost trying to bring on the pain because I have an appointment on Wednesday and as it stands I am pain free.  Even after the range and 175 balls off mats!

 

Yet on the weekend I’m 3 holes in and my elbow is really hurting.  I don’t get it...

 

Was your pain constant?

Pain was constant for me and as someone else mentioned, your body compensates or makes a compensating move to accommodate. So, in addition to elbow issues I developed shoulder (rotator cuff) issues too. I would figure out a way to reroute the club back to impact. Often I would avoid practice before a round because I didn’t want to waste any swings either. 
 

Despite all of this, the last 3 years have been pretty damn good score wise in league and tournament play. 
 

Having my arm immobilized in a cast for 6 weeks has been a forced reset for me. A little muscle atrophy set in and I am having to relearn how to swing again and use those muscles. Hopefully this time around I will avoid reinjuring it. 
 

*last year just to play 9 holes I would take 4 Advil, ice the area for 20 minutes, KT tape the area, wear a copper compression sleeve or one of those arm bands and then after the round another 4 Advil and ice again. 

[anth]

😳

[lenman73]

31 minutes ago, Aviador Naval said:

I went through this issue about 8 yrs ago.  Wasn’t formally diagnosed and at times both the inside and outside of my left elbow hurt (right handed golfer).  I was hitting a lot of balls off mats at the time with a fairly steep swing.  I was also playing straight PX shafts which has caused some folks some issues.  Hard to say for sure but I suspect root cause was the volume of balls from poor quality mats.

 

At its worst, I had trouble holding a glass of water firmly - but, at the same time, on many days, I could pre-load some Motrin and complete a round of golf without issue.  In the end, I became a substantial flincher on mid and short iron shots and struggled to stay down and through the ball.

 

I laid off golf for a while then eased back in by practicing short game only.  I had my clubs re-shafted to Recoil Prototypes but ultimately never got used to the feel.  I then eased back into steel with lighter and generally softer tipped shafts.  I’ve been pain free since and am now back to hitting moderate amounts of balls off mats - but only high quality ones.

 

It took me longer to overcome the flinching/thin contact on full speed iron shots than it did to overcome the pain.  It’s all behind me now but I intend to hedge my bets going forward with mid-light weight shafts and limited mat work.

 

 

I went through this 7 years ago.  Both elbows inside and out hurt so bad I couldnt twist the cap off a pop bottle.  Took physical therapy, alot of it to get to where I could swing again. Luckily most of it was over the winter. The following 2 seasons I wore tendonitis bands on both arms until I left them on a cart somewhere and have played pain free relatively since until a little over a week ago.  I bought a used set of irons over the winter.  Got an invite to go to a driving range so I took those.   Since they need regripped I held on a little tighter than normal and hitting off if mats, well I have a band on my left elbow as I am typing this. I am sure this will go away pretty quick, but with not hitting in 4 months, I think I just had a lot going on all at once. 

 

Back when I had the problem originally,  I didn't notice any change in distances or anything like that. Maybe I didn't flinch cause the pain was constant anyways. I don't wish this crap on anyone, and hope everyone dealing with gets to feeling better soon !

[KMeloney]

If THE subject of this thread is whether anticipating a sharp pain coming on during your swing could affect your swing, then the answer is undoubtedly yes. 

 

If you can mitigate the pain with an elbow brace, then I'd try that. Otherwise, if there's any pain that comes on as a result of the swing, I'd stop playing until you can play without pain. If it's golfer's or tennis elbow, there's no playing through it to make it better, in my experience. Trying to play through it makes it worse.

 

And just like you'll make subconscious compensations in your swing to avoid the pain, I'd say that your swing will go right back to the way it was prior to the pain once your condition is healed and you can swing pain free. (IOW, I can't imagine the compensations would be "permanent" -- but I also wouldn't allow them to be made at all by playing now.)