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It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...


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Just finished watching today's coverage and was pretty bummed for Westwood to see his awesome drive on 18 end up in a divot... to me, it pretty clearly affected how average his second shot was.  

Disagree.  It’s been discussed at great length here , and the question always is “ how do you define a divot “.     this always devolves into giving players ball in hand in then fairway.  Which

IMO a divot in the fairway is Ground Under Repair and fair and equitable relief should be given within the rules and spirit of the game...I know golf purists will disagree but if you give relief from

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4 hours ago, Golfnuck said:

 

So you must disagree with the new rule that allows one to tap down spike marks or any other imperfections on the putting green.  Or do you feel there is a difference between the marks created by a spike or depression by a previous golfer walking in the line of the putt to be different than a divot. 

 

In regards to an old ball mark I thought you can try to fix them.

 

Apples and oranges.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, golfandfishing said:

Oh no not at all. Just on tour. Those guys have no idea what a bad lie is anyway, why make them deal with a divot?  The rest of us can play from them, proudly I might add. 

Heck, the guys on tour are the guys who don't complain when they get in a divot hole.  Westwood's reaction was classic.  No reason to bifurcate the rules for them!

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4 hours ago, Golfnuck said:

 

No actually the other way round.

 

I posted in between you 2nd reply.

 

I am someone who actually believes in no relief period.  No to spike marks, no to unfixed ball marks, no to casual water, no to cart paths, no to divots.

Hmm, not all bad but you gave the standard “not supposed to hit it there” comment on cart paths. That seems logical as most are down the side of the hole and wide of the best play area. What do do with cart paths across the fairway? Surely you have played courses where that happens. So you can be on the preferred line of play and on a cart path.

  So that is where the changes start to happen.

 

IMHO the whole idea of no relief from tents and such is silly. Yes, they are down the sides of holes but they are place on area of the course that a ball can be played from. Just how severe do you want to take this idea of “ not supposed to be there? Every bunker is absolutely unplayable? Ten foot tall rough because you shouldn’t be there?

 

Absurd ideas but so is trying to reduce lines of play to essentially the fairway only.

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4 hours ago, Golfnuck said:

I know off topic but I reiterate that I want to see no more raking in the bunkers especially for the pros.

 

I acknowledge it is out of pure spite and jealousy.

 

Those f$&^$%k'n pros can hit a sand shot closer to the hole than any of my putts.

 

I just want to see them struggle for once.  

 

Sorry .....

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On 3/29/2021 at 4:02 PM, Shilgy said:

Hmm, not all bad but you gave the standard “not supposed to hit it there” comment on cart paths. That seems logical as most are down the side of the hole and wide of the best play area. What do do with cart paths across the fairway? Surely you have played courses where that happens. So you can be on the preferred line of play and on a cart path.

  So that is where the changes start to happen.

 

 

At my course hole #4 cart path runs on the left side until approx. 80 yard from green then end.  It goes to the right side and proceeds to the next tee box.

There is no path across the fairway but this area is often more muddy as the cart run across there.

 

So relief be given to ball that end up in this area?  It is not a cart part in the standard sense that it is not a concrete or paved path but you can see where the carts drive thru.

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4 minutes ago, Golfnuck said:

 

At my course hole #4 cart path runs on the left side until approx. 80 yard from green then end.  It goes to the right side and proceeds to the next tee box.

There is no path across the fairway but this area is often more muddy as the cart run across there.

 

So relief be given to ball that end up in this area?  It is not a cart part in the standard sense that it is not a concrete or paved path but you can see where the carts drive thru.

I would guess that when it gets bad marking it as GUR would be advisable. I would also suggest reminders and/or a small sign telling carts to “scatter” not driving all in the same place.

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It makes a lot of sense. 
 

The main issue I see is that there are sometimes judgment calls and it would become a pain.  Any time relief is offered players try to use the rules to their full advantage. Which is fair. But it leads to time spent calling officials over, obsessing about drops, and people coming close to the line or crossing it.  That’s why it’s not a rule already.  Could you imagine Patrick Reed with this rule?  
 

if golf had referees like any other sport, it would be less of an issue. Ref decides to provide relief and places the ball for the player. Easy peazy. 

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2 hours ago, NoCalHack said:

It makes a lot of sense. 
 

The main issue I see is that there are sometimes judgment calls and it would become a pain.  Any time relief is offered players try to use the rules to their full advantage. Which is fair. But it leads to time spent calling officials over, obsessing about drops, and people coming close to the line or crossing it.  That’s why it’s not a rule already.  Could you imagine Patrick Reed with this rule?  
 

if golf had referees like any other sport, it would be less of an issue. Ref decides to provide relief and places the ball for the player. Easy peazy. 


So let’s say a ref is posted on each hole to make this call. That’s 18 refs. Now what do you think the odds would be of getting all 18 refs to agree a drop is warranted? Point being one mans divot is another mans worn spot.      Since we cannot have consistency just leave things the way they are.

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On 3/29/2021 at 8:51 PM, 2bGood said:

This is an ironic part of many of these discussions. A number of people wanting relief from divots take it anyway as they don’t follow the rules. And most of the rule followers don’t want the rule changed and are fine hitting out of divots. 


Hitting out of divots is a golf skill like hitting out of the rough or a plugged lie in the bunker.

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51 minutes ago, dalehead said:


So let’s say a ref is posted on each hole to make this call. That’s 18 refs. Now what do you think the odds would be of getting all 18 refs to agree a drop is warranted? Point being one mans divot is another mans worn spot.      Since we cannot have consistency just leave things the way they are.


 

agreed. Not saying having officials is the solution or that it would be easy to do.  They certainly wouldn’t be consistent either just like they are not in other sports. 
 

but just like the NFL catch rule, we mostly know what a catch is when we see it. The problem comes in the grey areas which are always challenging to officiate properly. That’s probably why the golf governing bodies just say screw it. No relief from divots. 
 

 

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On 4/4/2021 at 4:01 PM, Golfnuck said:

 

At my course hole #4 cart path runs on the left side until approx. 80 yard from green then end.  It goes to the right side and proceeds to the next tee box.

There is no path across the fairway but this area is often more muddy as the cart run across there.

 

So relief be given to ball that end up in this area?  It is not a cart part in the standard sense that it is not a concrete or paved path but you can see where the carts drive thru.

 

On 4/4/2021 at 4:07 PM, Shilgy said:

I would guess that when it gets bad marking it as GUR would be advisable. I would also suggest reminders and/or a small sign telling carts to “scatter” not driving all in the same place.

 

Local private course uses a low wooden "rail" type obstacle about 5 foot off the end of where the path ends.  The super moves it to disperse cart traffic.  Works wonderfully and keeps paths out of the more frequented in-play areas.  No paths to be had out near the sides of the fairways.

 

Another public sort of does just the opposite.  They use stakes to mark where a cart can enter or leave the fairway on a hole.  They have a strict no driving in the rough rule.  Your ball comes to rest on those enter/exit areas you are likely on hard pan or very thin grass.  Actually a little better than deep rough from a playability standpoint.

 

Both courses have you play from divots in competitive rounds.

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I'm going with, how about no.  Divots, pitch marks, etc. are part of the game, learn how to hit the ball from various lies and separate yourself from the field.

 

Yes it's unfortunate if you end up in a divot, or footprint in a bunker, etc. but it's part of the game.

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Obviously divots are a hot button issue given the fact we are on Page 12.  As many, many here have said, how do you define a divot?  There are literally an infinite number of divot conditions from 99.9% healed to deep enough to bury a small animal.  Fortunately the guys on tour don't get the deep ones, but in our club games, we play it where it lies, and I can show you some real divots.  I agree with those that said the pros get too many drops already and the last thing they need or we need is something else to slow the game down. If I had one wish however it would be for fellow players to replace their divot or at least fill it with mix to give me a fighting chance.

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21 hours ago, Motercitysmitty said:

You get good and bad bounces in golf. You hook a tee shot into the trees and it bounces back into the fairway. Is that fair? Maybe you should have to put your ball back at the tree you hit. Can't have it both ways and the pros are the last to get anything extra.

The tree wasnt created by another player, and it wasnt placed right in the middle of the fairway which is created to give you a better lie and a reward for a good shot. Not even close to the same thing.

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On 4/6/2021 at 4:55 PM, Pinky5 said:

I think its time to give relief from divots. I dont see it being any different than lift clean and place in the fairway.

And LCP should be used only in the most severe conditions.  When LCP is in effect, move it out of a divit hole.  The rest of the time, play it down.

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On 3/8/2021 at 11:33 PM, MattyO1984 said:

Sincerely hope that they don’t go about changing it. The mess that it would create would take away any benefit. Seems like the more any sport attempts to refine the rules, the more ridiculous they become. Could you imagine how much time would be wasted trying to decide if it was a divot or not? Easy pass for me.

 

Agreed.

 

Pros (especially certain pros 😂) will try to gain an advantage if this rule was changed.

 

There are obvious divots but how about those divots which have repaired and almost grown back? Pros will argue any indent in the ground could be a divot whether it is from a day ago or 1 month ago.

 

We got to remember not every tournament is on pristine and immaculate fairways like Augusta.

 

Might as well just pick and place on fairway for all tournaments then?

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16 hours ago, Pinky5 said:

The tree wasnt created by another player, and it wasnt placed right in the middle of the fairway which is created to give you a better lie and a reward for a good shot. Not even close to the same thing.

 

I think you are impressing upon these areas a lot of things that weren't created for those intentions.  Fairways were mown to replicate turf cropped short by rabbits and sheep.  There is nothing within the rules intended to reward you for a good shot.  A "good shot" may well actually be in the rough.  Which of course we have discussed, rough and fairway do not exist within the rules.

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On 4/6/2021 at 4:55 PM, Pinky5 said:

I think its time to give relief from divots. I dont see it being any different than lift clean and place in the fairway.

 

Lift, clean and place, better know as "Preferred Lies", is a LOCAL rule to be used ONLY when conditions warrant. i.e. when the current course conditions would result in (mostly) chaos - e.g. when the course is soaking wet and pretty much every shot would be a "mud ball".

 

 

On 4/7/2021 at 4:11 PM, Pinky5 said:

The tree wasnt created by another player, and it wasnt placed right in the middle of the fairway which is created to give you a better lie and a reward for a good shot. Not even close to the same thing.

 

You haven't encountered a tree (placed ?) in the middle of the fairway ? Or water crossing the fairway ? Or even a fairway interrupted/separated by rough ?

 

Surely none of the above is "fair",,,,,,,,,,,,

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I think many folks try to make golf more complicated than it is.  If it's in an old fairway divot (too bad if you hit it in the rough) get a free drop as if it's ground under repair.  

 

And no need for a rules official...just have your partner confirm the divot lie and move on.  If the partner disagrees with your divot assessment, then call in the rules guy.  And make the divot hitter buy drinks after the round for being a kooch.

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