It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...

[smashdn]

57 minutes ago, ExTrumpet said:

I think many folks try to make golf more complicated than it is.  If it's in an old fairway divot (too bad if you hit it in the rough) get a free drop as if it's ground under repair.  

 

And no need for a rules official...just have your partner confirm the divot lie and move on.  If the partner disagrees with your divot assessment, then call in the rules guy.  And make the divot hitter buy drinks after the round for being a kooch.

 

Like I have asked several others who bring this up, how is rough and fairway defined in the rules?  

 

What makes the fairway the "right" way to play the hole?

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, ExTrumpet said:

I think many folks try to make golf more complicated than it is.  If it's in an old fairway divot (too bad if you hit it in the rough) get a free drop as if it's ground under repair.  

 

And no need for a rules official...just have your partner confirm the divot lie and move on.  If the partner disagrees with your divot assessment, then call in the rules guy.  And make the divot hitter buy drinks after the round for being a kooch.

 

First why would my partner get to make the call? I am sure you are using the word mistakenly:

Partner:A player who competes together with another player as a side, in either match playor stroke play. What if you are not playing in a format that includes partners?

 

What you likely actually mean is opponent (in match play) and fellow player in stroke play.

 

In Match play you can make a case for giving your opponent the chance to decide and this would be somewhat consistent with the rules of golf. 

 

In stroke play giving another player the opportunity to decide if you get relief or need to call in a rules official is of course not at all consistent with anything in the rules of golf. I am sure it comes up in this thread (as it away does in divot threads), but giving another player that ability to determine what is and is not a divot would assure very inconsistent results and not be fair to the field. Calling in a rules official wood make things way too slow and complicated in nearly every situation, though it could be achievable on the PGA Tour. Doing it just on tour is currently a non-stater as little interest has been shown for bifurcating the rules and this certainly would not be the issue that makes that happen. 

 

 

 

[Pinky5]

Didn't really know this is such a hot button topic. Since thinking about it more, I understand why you don't get relief from a divot. But then again its easy for me to treat it the same as your ball settling in a pitch mark on the green, which you get to fix so as not to affect your putt. Its a man made problem created by a player in front of you at some point. I get the tough luck, and I get the desire to get relief from something not natural. Guess Im torn on the decision now...

[2bGood]

15 minutes ago, Pinky5 said:

Didn't really know this is such a hot button topic. Since thinking about it more, I understand why you don't get relief from a divot. But then again its easy for me to treat it the same as your ball settling in a pitch mark on the green, which you get to fix so as not to affect your putt. Its a man made problem created by a player in front of you at some point. I get the tough luck, and I get the desire to get relief from something not natural. Guess Im torn on the decision now...

 A few points - as you pointed out you get to fix damage on the green, not get relief from it. I always find it interesting that no one advocates to be able to fix a divot before hitting out of it - people always want relief. You also get to fix all damage on the green, again if you took the rule form the green to the fairway you would get to improve your lie in allot of situations. 

 

 

[ExTrumpet]

On 4/9/2021 at 1:30 PM, 2bGood said:

 

First why would my partner get to make the call? I am sure you are using the word mistakenly:

Partner:A player who competes together with another player as a side, in either match playor stroke play. What if you are not playing in a format that includes partners?

 

What you likely actually mean is opponent (in match play) and fellow player in stroke play.

 

In Match play you can make a case for giving your opponent the chance to decide and this would be somewhat consistent with the rules of golf. 

 

In stroke play giving another player the opportunity to decide if you get relief or need to call in a rules official is of course not at all consistent with anything in the rules of golf. I am sure it comes up in this thread (as it away does in divot threads), but giving another player that ability to determine what is and is not a divot would assure very inconsistent results and not be fair to the field. Calling in a rules official wood make things way too slow and complicated in nearly every situation, though it could be achievable on the PGA Tour. Doing it just on tour is currently a non-stater as little interest has been shown for bifurcating the rules and this certainly would not be the issue that makes that happen. 

 

 

 

 

So, you are "that guy."  Ok...

 

[2bGood]

7 hours ago, ExTrumpet said:

 

So, you are "that guy."  Ok...

 

 

You remind of an interaction I once had. My fellow player is near a big a rock and takes relief during the hole. When we get to the end of the hole the following conversation occurred:

 

He says "I got a 4".

 

I said "no, I think it was a 5 - you hit the ball 4 times, plus the unplayable you took."

 

He says : "YOU want me take penalty for moving it away from the rock that would have hurt me?????!!!!!"

 

I said: "Not at all - I don't want you to take a penalty - the rules of golf do."

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by 2bGood

[smashdn]

You could always lay up well short of where the divots are in the fairway if you are that averse to playing from them.  

[Barfolomew]

I'm a HUGE advocate of moving the ball out the divot!!!!!

 

The guys 2 groups ahead do not have to face the brand new divots the group ahead of you are creating!!!!!!!!! Some divots are repaired better than others too...

 

I've started threads like these and did a good one bout 5 years ago... but I get hammered lol

 

The old guard can not get their heads around why or how this should be done lol

 

So over the years I've pondered it and here is my rule/method solution:

 

If your drive lands in the fairway you will be rewarded.... You can move the ball 1 club length.  No closer.

 

Yes it is not perfect but it is very very simple and fast.  Because how will you determine what really is a divot etc so make it simple. Now it could be 1 grip length to stop angles changing or stances changing too much etc...

 

Make hitting the fairway a bonus..... anti Bryson folks will like it lol.

 

It's actually in the spirit of the game, huh many have told me.  It's a " Gentleman's Game" so be a gentleman and know that there was no way to see the divot from far away and therefore you had no chance to purposely avoid it.  Think about Tom Morris in Scotland in the 1800's he would let you move it because he wanted to beat you not by some dumb interference.  Imagine you and your buddy are having a great afternoon of competition for a nice cold beer with the lads at the 19th hole afterwards.... you're all tied up and both smack beautiful drives on 18 but your buddy's ball is in the ugliest divot up against the front edge..... now the game has been ruined.  I'd tell my bud move the ball out that dumb divot and let's play...

 

 

 

 

[mwkbmw]

I just wanna' know if I get relief from a divot in the adjacent fairway since I wasn't supposed to hit it there.

 

Or... was I?

[2bGood]

16 hours ago, Barfolomew said:

I'm a HUGE advocate of moving the ball out the divot!!!!!

 

The guys 2 groups ahead do not have to face the brand new divots the group ahead of you are creating!!!!!!!!! Some divots are repaired better than others too...

 

I've started threads like these and did a good one bout 5 years ago... but I get hammered lol

 

The old guard can not get their heads around why or how this should be done lol

 

So over the years I've pondered it and here is my rule/method solution:

 

If your drive lands in the fairway you will be rewarded.... You can move the ball 1 club length.  No closer.

 

Yes it is not perfect but it is very very simple and fast.  Because how will you determine what really is a divot etc so make it simple. Now it could be 1 grip length to stop angles changing or stances changing too much etc...

 

Make hitting the fairway a bonus..... anti Bryson folks will like it lol.

 

It's actually in the spirit of the game, huh many have told me.  It's a " Gentleman's Game" so be a gentleman and know that there was no way to see the divot from far away and therefore you had no chance to purposely avoid it.  Think about Tom Morris in Scotland in the 1800's he would let you move it because he wanted to beat you not by some dumb interference.  Imagine you and your buddy are having a great afternoon of competition for a nice cold beer with the lads at the 19th hole afterwards.... you're all tied up and both smack beautiful drives on 18 but your buddy's ball is in the ugliest divot up against the front edge..... now the game has been ruined.  I'd tell my bud move the ball out that dumb divot and let's play...

 

 

 

 

 You are actually making the argument for those of us who believe no relief from divots is the correct way to have the rules. 

 

What you suggest - playing lift clean and place anywhere in the fairway is the only way I suspect you could have rule that allows relief from divots given the challenges is defining a divot. This rule would 'work' no doubt about it. But putting this rule in place removes the rule of playing the ball as it lies. Playing the ball as it lies is part of the origins of the game and I believe integral to what golf is. To me it would be like awarding points for hitting the rim in basketball -it changes the sport on a fundamental level. 

 

Right now the reward for hitting the fairway is a higher likelihood of good lie, I don't think there is any need to make the reward a guarantee of a good lie - good breaks and bad breaks are part the game.

Edited May 4, 2021 by 2bGood

[smashdn]

17 hours ago, Barfolomew said:

Make hitting the fairway a bonus..... anti Bryson folks will like it lol.

 

Why is hitting the fairway the "right" way to play?  What is fairway?

[J_Tizzle]

18 hours ago, Barfolomew said:

I'm a HUGE advocate of moving the ball out the divot!!!!!

 

The guys 2 groups ahead do not have to face the brand new divots the group ahead of you are creating!!!!!!!!! Some divots are repaired better than others too...

 

I've started threads like these and did a good one bout 5 years ago... but I get hammered lol

 

The old guard can not get their heads around why or how this should be done lol

 

So over the years I've pondered it and here is my rule/method solution:

 

If your drive lands in the fairway you will be rewarded.... You can move the ball 1 club length.  No closer.

 

Yes it is not perfect but it is very very simple and fast.  Because how will you determine what really is a divot etc so make it simple. Now it could be 1 grip length to stop angles changing or stances changing too much etc...

 

Make hitting the fairway a bonus..... anti Bryson folks will like it lol.

 

It's actually in the spirit of the game, huh many have told me.  It's a " Gentleman's Game" so be a gentleman and know that there was no way to see the divot from far away and therefore you had no chance to purposely avoid it.  Think about Tom Morris in Scotland in the 1800's he would let you move it because he wanted to beat you not by some dumb interference.  Imagine you and your buddy are having a great afternoon of competition for a nice cold beer with the lads at the 19th hole afterwards.... you're all tied up and both smack beautiful drives on 18 but your buddy's ball is in the ugliest divot up against the front edge..... now the game has been ruined.  I'd tell my bud move the ball out that dumb divot and let's play...

 

 

 

 

 

I am a pro "play it as it lies" guy, but I also feel the only way you could allow a rule like this to happen is like what you said, play it, essentially, up in the fairways.

[2bGood]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

Why is hitting the fairway the "right" way to play?  What is fairway?

I get where you are going with this (I think). The rules only acknowledge the General Area. The GA is defined but what it is not as in it is every area but the teeing area, penalty area, bunker and green.  As for as the rules* are concerned there is no fairway. 

 

*When you get into local rules, the fairway starts to make an appearance. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by 2bGood

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, J_Tizzle said:

 

I am a pro "play it as it lies" guy, but I also feel the only way you could allow a rule like this to happen is like what you said, play it, essentially, up in the fairways.

Which raises the question then. This proposed plan takes much of nature, and architectural planning, out of the game of golf.  No more humps and swales in the fairway because the player can just move the ball wherever he wants…as long as he was somewhere in the fairway. Removes, or at least neuters, the slight dogleg hole. Does the same to some of the trees and such planted on corners. 
 

Personally I think those that want the rules changed to include automatic relief just for hitting the fairway would be better suited for TopGolf. 
  Or, as others have suggested, play the game however you’d like but there is no reason to fundamentally change the game just because you want it easier.

[tgoodspe1991]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:49 PM, smashdn said:

 

Like I have asked several others who bring this up, how is rough and fairway defined in the rules?  

 

What makes the fairway the "right" way to play the hole?

 

I was thinking more about this argument today and no longer think it's even necessary to bother defining "rough" or "fairway".

 

Tournaments, professional or amateur, adopt a local "lift, clean, and place" rule when the conditions deem it necessary. The rule always states that LC&P is allowed in the fairway or "shortly mowed areas" and not in the rough, hazards, bunkers, etc. etc. They seem to get on just fine defining it this way and there's never any confusion of how this rule applies. 

 

So what's the difference between those same tournaments adopting a local rule that says you're allowed to LC&P your ball if you've come to rest in a divot/removal of turf by golf club in "shortly mowed areas" or "fairway". Seems to me like people will be able to figure it out exactly the same way.

 

And as far as defining a "divot". Define is as a complete removal of turf made from the action of a golf swing/golf club interacting with the ground. Something like that, maybe that's not perfect, but again I'm sure there's a simple enough way to define it that players can figure out.

 

Heck, if players can properly figure out the whole "what is or isn't standing water" debacle I see all the time, I'm sure they can figure this out easily enough too. 

[J_Tizzle]

4 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Which raises the question then. This proposed plan takes much of nature, and architectural planning, out of the game of golf.  No more humps and swales in the fairway because the player can just move the ball wherever he wants…as long as he was somewhere in the fairway. Removes, or at least neuters, the slight dogleg hole. Does the same to some of the trees and such planted on corners. 
 

Personally I think those that want the rules changed to include automatic relief just for hitting the fairway would be better suited for TopGolf. 
  Or, as others have suggested, play the game however you’d like but there is no reason to fundamentally change the game just because you want it easier.

 

Well I mean you could also say, up to 6" movement in relief or something like that.  6" of movement doesn't ruin the design of the course.  

 

At the end of the day it only really matters in legit strokeplay events.  My group will make the decision on the first tee if we're playing it up/down based on conditions, as others have said, I want to beat you because I played better, not because you got a bad lie in the fairway etc.

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, J_Tizzle said:

 

Well I mean you could also say, up to 6" movement in relief or something like that.  6" of movement doesn't ruin the design of the course.  

 

At the end of the day it only really matters in legit strokeplay events.  My group will make the decision on the first tee if we're playing it up/down based on conditions, as others have said, I want to beat you because I played better, not because you got a bad lie in the fairway etc.

Even 6” can negate the affect of slope in the fairway.

 

I want to beat you because I could handle whatever nature threw at me. Not because I got to roll it whenever I wanted.

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I get where you are going with this (I think). The rules only acknowledge the General Area. The GA is defined but what it is not as in it is every area but the teeing area, penalty area, bunker and green.  As for as the rules* are concerned there is no fairway. 

 

*When you get into local rules, the fairway starts to make an appearance. 

 

Yes to the second part.

 

As to the first part, why would you get relief from the fairway only?  (Provided that fairway would then be defined within The Rules.)  Who's to say that playing into another hole is not a better play or that a spot in the rough provides a better angle or is closer to the hole?

 

If there is a ring of rough around a fairway bunker can I not get relief from that divot too?

 

This is really a silly conversation to be having.  A) How often are people playing it "strictly by The Rules?"  B) How often are those people willing to do so finding themselves in a divot?  C) How un-willing are they to, those who are  truly interested in playing "by The Rules,"  accept rarely a ball will end up in a divot?  Lastly, most folks I have run into who truly care for the rules, and are playing by them (whether they elect to or are in a competition) are pretty good sticks and can play from a divot with little issue.

 

Local rules are where lift, clean and place get instituted correct?  Where you can institute a local rule regarding conditions on the course.  Someone brought up a really wet area adjacent to the fairway where there was a special lost ball stipulation.  That seems fair but GUR is supposed to be marked.

 

I suppose if you had one spot on the fairway where the ball naturally funneled to and concentrated the divots, you could label that area GUR and get a drop from there.

 

I go back to what someone said about picking the ball up if you are not inclined to hit from the spot you find yourself, you can do so at any point under a one stroke penalty. The penalty is for not playing the ball as it lies, not for where you have hit it.

 

 

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, J_Tizzle said:

I want to beat you because I played better, not because you got a bad lie in the fairway etc.

 

Noble intent.  But at the end of the day one key tenants of golf is you and your opponents ability/inability to handle adversity.  A bad lie is only bad if you think it is.

 

For some a greenside bunker is a disaster.  For others it is the lesser of several potential evils.  In some instances it may be the "miss" that allows you to adequately spin your next shot to get it to finish close to the hole.

 

Part of the charm of the game is the correlation to life in general.  Adjust and make the best of a tough situation.  

 

What is the Nicklaus quote about the field at the US Open.  Something along the lines of, "half the field is beat already because of the conditions, half the rest I am just better than," so he was only really concerned with beating a handful of guys out there.

 

Why not just practice a bit, learn to hit it well from a divot, feign fretting a bit, knock it close and demoralize your opponent when he thinks he has you on the ropes with a "bad" lie?

 

What about all the other "bad" lies that are found out in the fairway (when we define that area)?

 

I used to work for a Japanese company.  When new guys would come over for an assignment they always wanted to play golf.  My understanding is that lots of people golf in Japan but not very many people have the opportunity to actually play on a course.  Because of this I observed that initially those guys, with really good swings, had trouble adjusting to actually hitting from varied lies.  I guess you don't find the ball on hard pan, or sitting up, above or below your feet, often when you only hit from a bay at the range.

 

Golf encompasses many skills beyond just being able to hit the ball a certain distance.  I hope we don't lose sight of all the other parts of the game in the name of "fairness."

[AMLemus]

22 hours ago, Barfolomew said:

I'm a HUGE advocate of moving the ball out the divot!!!!!

 

The guys 2 groups ahead do not have to face the brand new divots the group ahead of you are creating!!!!!!!!! Some divots are repaired better than others too...

 

I've started threads like these and did a good one bout 5 years ago... but I get hammered lol

 

The old guard can not get their heads around why or how this should be done lol

 

So over the years I've pondered it and here is my rule/method solution:

 

If your drive lands in the fairway you will be rewarded.... You can move the ball 1 club length.  No closer.

 

Yes it is not perfect but it is very very simple and fast.  Because how will you determine what really is a divot etc so make it simple. Now it could be 1 grip length to stop angles changing or stances changing too much etc...

 

Make hitting the fairway a bonus..... anti Bryson folks will like it lol.

 

It's actually in the spirit of the game, huh many have told me.  It's a " Gentleman's Game" so be a gentleman and know that there was no way to see the divot from far away and therefore you had no chance to purposely avoid it.  Think about Tom Morris in Scotland in the 1800's he would let you move it because he wanted to beat you not by some dumb interference.  Imagine you and your buddy are having a great afternoon of competition for a nice cold beer with the lads at the 19th hole afterwards.... you're all tied up and both smack beautiful drives on 18 but your buddy's ball is in the ugliest divot up against the front edge..... now the game has been ruined.  I'd tell my bud move the ball out that dumb divot and let's play...

 

 

 

 

I think a fun idea, though possibly not in the spirit of quicker play in pro-settings, could be to implement a risk/reward component to the “divot relief” issue.
 

Let’s say someone drives a ball into the fairway (or rough, whichever) and concludes that their ball is in a divot and that they are entitled relief. 

 

They can then call a rules official over and here’s where it gets interesting. The official can conclude 1) that the ball is indeed in a divot (or ground under repair) and that the player is allowed a drop within two feet (to reduce placement advantage) of the divot, no closer to the hole and with no penalty. 
 

Alternatively, the rules official can 2) conclude that the lie is reasonable and that the player has wasted everyone’s time by requesting relief from a reasonably natural lie and is penalized one stroke for violating code of conduct (or being unsporting, or whatever). 

 

Intent being that if a player wants relief from what they think is a divot, they better be really damn sure of it. 
 

Feel free to amend as desired or roast me for bringing more complication to an already complicated game. 

[Barfolomew]

Bunkers were there before the round started for everyone....they are known.  If you prefer to play from bunkers and not a penalty to you cause you got skills then play into them no biggie

 

Fresh divots were not there for the groups in front...  the "attempt to fix them" shows what, intent your honor?  That they should be fixed to not be there and preferably they were never there.  But since they can not be repaired with any type of consistency fro caddies or players or and never to "not being there" with the attempt to fix them shows something.... dam I sound like a lawyer. 

 

Why attempt to fix them at all then let them just be....

 

Smash you say a bad lie is only a bad lie if you think it is..... lol that's an easy one to tear apart.  Would you prefer your ball sitting on a flat piece of beautiful fairway or in a giant divot up against the front edge.... oh and its a 190 yard shot and front is protected by water and the green has a false front oh and water behind too...duh lol might be smart to lay up and take your medicine.  But that's not a bad lie its only in your head....

[Barfolomew]

This might even be bigger issue outside of the PGA cause at least those caddies attempt to fix a divot, better then what the rest of us experience in competition and casual rounds... cause we know its terrible as many don't fix divots

[J_Tizzle]

6 minutes ago, Barfolomew said:

This might even be bigger issue outside of the PGA cause at least those caddies attempt to fix a divot, better then what the rest of us experience in competition and casual rounds... cause we know its terrible as many don't fix divots

 

Plus i'd argue that playing out of a sandfilled divot is potentially even worse than playing out of a divot.  Bunkers are considered hazards on the golf course, why should we be forced to hit out of a hidden hazard that was randomly put in the middle of the place where we're supposed to hit the ball...

 

I get all the arguments of playing it where it lies and blah blah blah, but I don't see playing a ball up 5" in the fairway for a fair lie is any worse than everyone who scoops a putt lol.  Everyone in this thread acting like touching the ball in the fairway is so against everything golf ever stood for will scoop a 3ft putt and not bat an eye at it, lol.  

 

breaking some rules is against the spirit of the game, but not finishing the hole is cool because you would have made it anyways.  

Edited May 4, 2021 by J_Tizzle

[Barfolomew]

4 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Even 6” can negate the affect of slope in the fairway.

 

I want to beat you because I could handle whatever nature threw at me. Not because I got to roll it whenever I wanted.

 

But nature didn't throw that giant divot at you.... it was the drunk rookie a group ahead of you that doesn't understand or care about etiquette and just wants another double shot of Fireball off the cart girl

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

Yes to the second part.

 

As to the first part, why would you get relief from the fairway only?  (Provided that fairway would then be defined within The Rules.)  Who's to say that playing into another hole is not a better play or that a spot in the rough provides a better angle or is closer to the hole?

 

If there is a ring of rough around a fairway bunker can I not get relief from that divot too?

 

This is really a silly conversation to be having.  A) How often are people playing it "strictly by The Rules?"  B) How often are those people willing to do so finding themselves in a divot?  C) How un-willing are they to, those who are  truly interested in playing "by The Rules,"  accept rarely a ball will end up in a divot?  Lastly, most folks I have run into who truly care for the rules, and are playing by them (whether they elect to or are in a competition) are pretty good sticks and can play from a divot with little issue.

 

Local rules are where lift, clean and place get instituted correct?  Where you can institute a local rule regarding conditions on the course.  Someone brought up a really wet area adjacent to the fairway where there was a special lost ball stipulation.  That seems fair but GUR is supposed to be marked.

 

I suppose if you had one spot on the fairway where the ball naturally funneled to and concentrated the divots, you could label that area GUR and get a drop from there.

 

I go back to what someone said about picking the ball up if you are not inclined to hit from the spot you find yourself, you can do so at any point under a one stroke penalty. The penalty is for not playing the ball as it lies, not for where you have hit it.

 

 

For the record we are on the same side of this discussion. As I pointed out before people who want relief from divots aren’t generally observing the rules any way. 

[2bGood]

17 minutes ago, Barfolomew said:

 

But nature didn't throw that giant divot at you.... it was the drunk rookie a group ahead of you that doesn't understand or care about etiquette and just wants another double shot of Fireball off the cart girl

How far do you extend that logic? Special relief for anything altered that day by human hands? Ie divots, bunkers not raked, ball marks off the green in your way and any course maintenance that occurred after the first group played through? 
 

Do you get relief from just what happen that day or another time span? 
 

What about groups that play behind me - I walk and carry sand and fill divots all round and fix marks etc so the course is in better shape than before I played. Should the group behind me incur a penalty stroke for getting to play in conditions that were improved? 

[Barfolomew]

3 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

How far do you extend that logic? Special relief for anything altered that day by human hands? Ie divots, bunkers not raked, ball marks off the green in your way and any course maintenance that occurred after the first group played through? 
 

Do you get relief from just what happen that day or another time span? 
 

What about groups that play behind me - I walk and carry sand and fill divots all round and fix marks etc so the course is in better shape than before I played. Should the group behind me incur a penalty stroke for getting to play in conditions that were improved? 

 

Nah just divots

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, Barfolomew said:

Smash you say a bad lie is only a bad lie if you think it is..... lol that's an easy one to tear apart.  Would you prefer your ball sitting on a flat piece of beautiful fairway or in a giant divot up against the front edge.... oh and its a 190 yard shot and front is protected by water and the green has a false front oh and water behind too...duh lol might be smart to lay up and take your medicine.  But that's not a bad lie its only in your head....

 

If you aren't feeling up to playing golf at that particular moment, take your drop, and your penalty.

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, Barfolomew said:

 

But nature didn't throw that giant divot at you.... it was the drunk rookie a group ahead of you that doesn't understand or care about etiquette and just wants another double shot of Fireball off the cart girl

 

Read thread title.  I have to assume the pros don't have to deal with this.  

 

If you are speaking of your group and what you might run into any given Saturday, I don't care what you guys agree to do.  That is the beauty of it when you extrapolate it out to your weekend foursome, you can do what you want and the actual rule doesn't matter.  Rake it all around if that is what everyone is fine with.

 

However, if any group should be tested by playing the course as they find it, it is professional golfers.  They are professionals.  Should be no big deal to them.

 

How many times has a tournament been lost by a drive ending up in a divot?

[oikos1]

For all of those who say "How do you define a divot", and make it to be such a difficult task, I would submit how do you define "Two Estimated Reference Points"?  Oh wait, the rules of golf have provided guidance in the new rule E-5 Alternative to Stroke and Distance for Lost Ball or Ball Out of Bounds:

 

This option allows the player to drop in a large area between the point where the ball is estimated to have come to rest or gone out of bounds and the edge of the fairway of the hole being played that is not nearer the hole.

 

Two Estimated Reference Points:

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• Come to rest on the course, or
• Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

If a ball is estimated to be lost on the course or last crossed the edge of the course boundary short of the fairway, the fairway reference point may be a grass path or a teeing ground for the hole being played cut to fairway height or less.

 

Yes, to all the naysayers, if one can "estimate" where a ball has come to rest or gone out of bounds, certainly one can estimate what constitutes a divot hole.  Defining a divot hole seems to be a rather simple possibility within the rules of golf.

 

By the way, earlier someone mentioned there is no definition of "fairway" in the rules of golf.  Well, apparently now there is.