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It's time, Pro's (and others) should get relief from divots...


tgoodspe1991

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Just watching pga tour live this morning and if Speith, who hit a drive on #6 about 2 ft into the rough and bc his stance was effected by a sprinkler head got to drop it back into the fairway (club length), than I don’t see how guys who end up in a fairway divot can’t drop it either. 
 

I actually have more of an issue that in this instance he’s able to change the lie completely but if this is allowed I don’t see why dropping from a divot is so terrible. 

Edited by Punchdraw
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1 minute ago, Punchdraw said:

Just watching pga tour live this morning and if Speith, who hit a drive on #6 about 2 ft into the rough and bc his stance was effected by a sprinkler head got to drop it back into the fairway (club length), than I don’t see how guys who end up in a fairway divot can’t drop it either. 

 

Sprinkler heads are plastic/metal devices that are added to the course for maintenance, they are not natural and they are not features of the course. Have you seen what most golfers look like? The last thing we want is some old, fat, attorney to have to hit a ball while standing on a sprinkler head or cart path and fall down and hurt himself

 

Plastic and metal and concrete does not equal grass and dirt and sand

 

I will say that I don't think you should be able to drop in a different type of grass. If you're in the rough, drop should be in the rough, and same for fairway, first cut, whatever else. That part of the rule does give an unfair advantage sometimes, but nobody should have to putt or hit a ball off of a sprinkler head, including stance

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On 3/11/2021 at 1:32 PM, cwilk said:

I'm firmly in the free relief crowd.  Though, it seems like it shouldn't be that hard to hand all of the volunteers at a PGA Tour event a bottle of sand and have them fill divots so this is never an issue.  

 

B S!!!

This is the root of the problem. If you make a divot, you are responsible for repairing it, correctly. If this was done by everyone this whole divot debate would be a non-issue. It's the same as repairing your pitch mark on the green. Just take the time to find it and fix it correctly. And for those who'll say this takes too much time, that's BS as well. Help and hold your playing partners accountable for repairing pitch marks, raking bunkers, and yes, properly repairing divots.

 

Edit: this is not intended as a a personal attack on you cwilk. 🍻

Edited by nitram
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The answer to better golf is hit it better, farther, and make more putts.

 

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8 hours ago, tungstenplug said:

 

Sprinkler heads are plastic/metal devices that are added to the course for maintenance, they are not natural and they are not features of the course. Have you seen what most golfers look like? The last thing we want is some old, fat, attorney to have to hit a ball while standing on a sprinkler head or cart path and fall down and hurt himself

 

 

I can't speak for others but I wouldn't mind seeing that happen...

 

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8 hours ago, nitram said:

 

B S!!!

This is the root of the problem. If you make a divot, you are responsible for repairing it, correctly. If this was done by everyone this whole divot debate would be a non-issue. It's the same as repairing your pitch mark on the green. Just take the time to find it and fix it correctly. And for those who'll say this takes too much time, that's BS as well. Help and hold your playing partners accountable for repairing pitch marks, raking bunkers, and yes, properly repairing divots.

 

Edit: this is not intended as a a personal attack on you cwilk. 🍻

I fully agree.

 

But we live in the world as it is, not the world as it should be.  If a player ends up in a divot that a previous knucklehead didn't repair, I think it's unfair they should have to play from that.

Edited by Go Cougs
my previous word for "knucklehead" is apparently frowned upon
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It is somewhat fascinating and at the same time humorous that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars are spent on turf management/development (not to mention the social and environmental costs) at the highest level of golf and yet a golfer can hit a beautiful ball down the center of a fairway only to find they have found a divot hole and it's tough cookies!

 

Seriously, why not play in goat pastures then?

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2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

It is somewhat fascinating and at the same time humorous that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars are spent on turf management/development (not to mention the social and environmental costs) at the highest level of golf and yet a golfer can hit a beautiful ball down the center of a fairway only to find they have found a divot hole and it's tough cookies!

 

Seriously, why not play in goat pastures then?


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12 hours ago, Punchdraw said:

Just watching pga tour live this morning and if Speith, who hit a drive on #6 about 2 ft into the rough and bc his stance was effected by a sprinkler head got to drop it back into the fairway (club length), than I don’t see how guys who end up in a fairway divot can’t drop it either. 
 

I actually have more of an issue that in this instance he’s able to change the lie completely but if this is allowed I don’t see why dropping from a divot is so terrible. 

 

You probably should've read more of the thread.

 

The root of the "problem" is how one defines a "divot" (hole).

 

As for Speith's drop, there's a term you should learn. "Through the green". There is NO definition in the ROG for "fairway" or "rough". :classic_wink:

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2 hours ago, oikos1 said:

It is somewhat fascinating and at the same time humorous that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars are spent on turf management/development (not to mention the social and environmental costs) at the highest level of golf and yet a golfer can hit a beautiful ball down the center of a fairway only to find they have found a divot hole and it's tough cookies!

 

Seriously, why not play in goat pastures then?

 

So long as when you hit a tree in the rough and the ball bounces out onto the fairway, you put in back under the tree, I'm good with landing in the divot that one time out of 5, 10, or 20 ROUNDS it happens.

 

As for the goat pastures,,,,,,,,,,, some of us already do. :classic_laugh:

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10 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

You probably should've read more of the thread.

 

The root of the "problem" is how one defines a "divot" (hole).

 

As for Speith's drop, there's a term you should learn. "Through the green". There is NO definition in the ROG for "fairway" or "rough". :classic_wink:


as of the revisions in 2019, the term " through the green" is no longer used. It is called the "general area." 🙂

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6 minutes ago, Obee said:


as of the revisions in 2019, the term " through the green" is no longer used. It is called the "general area." 🙂

 

Understood.  👍

 

Although not defined I still think "through the green" is a useful, though old, "thought" and is a bit more descriptive than "general area".

 

Especially for those whose Rules knowledge is less complete than average - like me. :classic_biggrin:

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17 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Understood.  👍

 

Although not defined I still think "through the green" is a useful, though old, "thought" and is a bit more descriptive than "general area".

 

Especially for those whose Rules knowledge is less complete than average - like me. :classic_biggrin:

Truth be told, I couldn't remember the new name and had to look it up! I just knew there was a new name for it. I don't think I have used it a single time but I did use the term "through the green" a while back in a tournament when explaining a rule someone. Old habits certainly die hard. 🙂

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On 3/13/2021 at 10:58 AM, tungstenplug said:

 

Sprinkler heads are plastic/metal devices that are added to the course for maintenance, they are not natural and they are not features of the course. Have you seen what most golfers look like? The last thing we want is some old, fat, attorney to have to hit a ball while standing on a sprinkler head or cart path and fall down and hurt himself

 

Oh you know, you could just change your stance... 

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Divots in the fairway are nothing.  Just hit the ball past where most 210yd drives end up and there won't be any divots.  

 

The fact "WE" are no longer allowed to benefit from actual spikes is annoying, yet tour guys are allowed.  They are spoiled, shoe manufactures are putting in steel spikes for them.  I swing hard too, and would like the help of real spikes.  Soft spikes are worthless, yet on the feet of "George from Rampage", prints are all over the place.

 

Then there are those people that not only drag their feet while walking, some of them must weigh a ton, because they leave footprints as if they were jumping around on the green.  I either encounter really hard greens that don't even leave ball marks, or greens are so soft, it looks like "George" and "Godzilla" are playing in front of us.

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Nobody likes having to play from a divot hole, but I think it's consistent with the overall nature of golf's test of your abilities. Sometimes you hit it in the rough and get a nice lie, sometimes it's buried and you have to try to hack it, and sometimes it's fluffy and you worry about launching it or sweeping under it. Sometimes you have an uneven stance in the fairway. Sometimes you have a clean bunker lie and sometimes it's part-buried. Sometimes you're in the trees with a clear line to the green, sometimes you have to either try to curve the ball or take your medicine or try for a heroic threading of the needle.

 

Other than perhaps tee shots, every shot you take is some variety of imperfect. Adjusting for that imperfection is sort of the essence of golf IMO. That you are in the fairway does not necessarily mean that your next shot gets to be a stock iron or wedge.

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Gotta wonder if the PGA Tour folks are reading GolfWRX. Westwood just drove it in another divot in Round 1 and they just had a full blown discussion about it, bringing up the "ground under repair" argument that was posted here. Just funny timing. 😛 

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4 hours ago, tgoodspe1991 said:

Gotta wonder if the PGA Tour folks are reading GolfWRX. Westwood just drove it in another divot in Round 1 and they just had a full blown discussion about it, bringing up the "ground under repair" argument that was posted here. Just funny timing. 😛 

 

:classic_laugh:

 

Saw that too.

 

I think Westwood is "divot prone". 🤦‍♀️:classic_biggrin:

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How can a player on the PGA Tour, with all of the people around and caddies, end up in a divot in the fairway?

 

That's the real question.

 

It's a PGA Tour problem and not a rules of golf problem. Look, many tour players now don't call out "fore," hoping their ball hits a spectator to stop it from going deeper in trouble, or even bounce back to a better position. It's become part of the, "Hey, I'm playin' for a lot of money here!" tour attitude.

 

It's a "strategic play" now to not fill a divot very well for players behind you.

 

I was doing some work with a couple of tour players at the back end of TPC Scottsdale range and one was laughing about the "new breed" of completely self-absorbed tour players whining about the temperature of the free drinks at the range and on the course not being to their liking of 47.6° . . .

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If the ball comes to rest in an area deemed "the fairway" or whatever you want to call it and the divot is unrepaired or sand filled, then the player gets a free drop no nearer the hole, within one club length, using the shortest club in the player's bag.

 

If there's grass of any kind in the divot then no free drop. This takes away the "old divot" or "depression" discussion.

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10 hours ago, BirdieRoll said:

If the ball comes to rest in an area deemed "the fairway" or whatever you want to call it and the divot is unrepaired or sand filled, then the player gets a free drop no nearer the hole, within one club length, using the shortest club in the player's bag.

 

If there's grass of any kind in the divot then no free drop. This takes away the "old divot" or "depression" discussion.

Doesn’t that last bit defeat the purpose?

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21 hours ago, BirdieRoll said:

If the ball comes to rest in an area deemed "the fairway" or whatever you want to call it and the divot is unrepaired or sand filled, then the player gets a free drop no nearer the hole, within one club length, using the shortest club in the player's bag.

 

If there's grass of any kind in the divot then no free drop. This takes away the "old divot" or "depression" discussion.

 

How would you define "unrepaired" so that everyone interpreted that term the same way? Same with "sand filled"? 

 

How would you define "in the divot"? And how much grass would have to be in the divot for no free drop?

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36 minutes ago, North Texas said:

 

How would you define "unrepaired" so that everyone interpreted that term the same way? Same with "sand filled"? 

 

How would you define "in the divot"? And how much grass would have to be in the divot for no free drop?

Player before you did a crap job and only half filled the hole. 
Relief?

 

Tiniest bit of a green shoot of grass coming through the sand....or is it just a grass clipping stick in there.

Relief?

 

The comment you relied to did not even mention the divot could be replaced in some parts of the country....

Ball is lyingon top or replaced divot.

Relief?

 

Ball is on the seam/edge of replace divot.

Relief?


How many more examples do some need to understand the difficulty in writing such a rule for relief?

 

It is easy to look at a ball in a freshly made divot hole and say give relief. 
 

But the devil is in the details.

Edited by Shilgy
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