Why don’t more people play component golf clubs?

[Old Tom Morris]

18 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

You're welcome to your opinion.  I didn't use the Kia or Porsche example to get bogged down in unrelated minutia.  Have a good day.

The Kia comparison is very valid with respect to resale value.  They are cheap, crappy cars that depreciate readily.  Money is made by financing them (new) to people that would not qualify for financing with new Honda or Toyota vehicles or afford them at all.  

 

Truth is, I would rather buy a five year old Toyota than a brand new Kia.

[lefthack]

On 3/8/2021 at 10:29 AM, Pepperturbo said:

If you like component golf equipment, fine.  That is why Maltby and KZG exist.  Just because someone likes Kia doesn't mean everyone should run out and buy one.  I prefer Titleist, and my 620 series and Porsche.  Good luck with your clubs.

 

To be fair, Maltby is more "pick a part" and KZG is more "MSO". One being like Costco where the other is McLaren Special Operations. But yeah, different strokes.

 

I have always liked the look of the Maltby gear, but they make jack s*** in lefty. KZG offers more in left handed. 🤣

[cristphoto]

14 hours ago, PNWGuy said:

 

Wow.  Who was Chico Martinez?

 

Trevino's first caddie?  🤩

[Multipass613]

Interesting comments, lots of us tried component clubs back in the day like Golfsmith, but now find used major OEM gear to be around equal value. I was in the exact same boat and only visited the GolfWorks to buy new grips or shafts, UNTIL... I saw the Maltby TS-1 irons.

 

I would advise those on the fence to stop thinking of this current gen of component gear as 'equivalent' or 'on par'. Everyone's individual performance will vary, but the TS-1 irons look and play better than anything out there on the market for me. Bought some classic Dynamic Gold shafts and boom, I've got the best custom built irons that exist (for my swing) in the world today. 

 

It's not an 'on par' alternative to the hollow body offerings from major OEM's, you can actually point to distinct design characteristics like blade length, sole camber, topline, etc. that will make them superior for certain types of golfers. If your primary focus is performance, don't skip on the components thinking they are cheaper equivalents to what's available at retail, some of them are unique offerings.

[kjbuckeye]

Component club manufacturers rarely market to consumers, their product isn't played on tour, and you can't test it without buying it. That being said, I love Maltby and the folks at Golfworks. But I took my Matlby TS1 irons out of the bag for Srixon ZX7. Are they better? No. But they look freaking sweet and feel good. 

[Pepperturbo]

2 hours ago, lefthack said:

 

To be fair, Maltby is more "pick a part" and KZG is more "MSO". One being like Costco where the other is McLaren Special Operations. But yeah, different strokes.

 

I have always liked the look of the Maltby gear, but they make jack s*** in lefty. KZG offers more in left handed. 🤣

I was born a lefty and ambidextrous most of my life.  But I understand what lefties face regarding equipment.  KZG makes a nice blade with specs nearly the same as my 620 MBs. 

[lefthack]

Just now, Pepperturbo said:

I was born a lefty and ambidextrous most of my life.  But I understand what lefties face regarding equipment.  KZG makes a nice blade with specs nearly the same as my 620 MBs. 

 

Yeah, I really didn't plan on buying the KZG's and I REALLY didn't plan on getting the blades. But after looking at them and reading some comments on just how well they played, I almost had to. And again, for what I paid, you can't touch them.

 

I may end up with 2 full (cb and mb) sets at this rate.

[Pepperturbo]

1 minute ago, lefthack said:

 

Yeah, I really didn't plan on buying the KZG's and I REALLY didn't plan on getting the blades. But after looking at them and reading some comments on just how well they played, I almost had to. And again, for what I paid, you can't touch them.

 

I may end up with 2 full (cb and mb) sets at this rate.

Having two full sets means I blend clubs based on the course I am about to play and my bones.  🙂

 

[Nessism]

3 hours ago, Old Tom Morris said:

The Kia comparison is very valid with respect to resale value.  They are cheap, crappy cars that depreciate readily.  Money is made by financing them (new) to people that would not qualify for financing with new Honda or Toyota vehicles or afford them at all.  

 

Truth is, I would rather buy a five year old Toyota than a brand new Kia.

 

Hum, if Kia sucks then how come they are TOP RATED in the industry yardstick JD Powers IQS survey?

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Nessism

[Bad9]

Note how many of the supposed high quality, premium brands are at the bottom and have been for 20yrs.

[JCAG]

Golfers buy hope. What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday regardless of anything else.

[lefthack]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Having two full sets means I blend clubs based on the course I am about to play and my bones.  🙂

 

 

I honestly didn't know KZG existed until 2 weeks ago when it was brought up about small companies. Then a cheap CB 3i piqued my interest, I added it to my wishlist and next thing I know...

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by lefthack

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

Hum, if Kia sucks then how come they are TOP RATED in the industry yardstick JD Powers IQS survey?

 

Too many people are unaware how JD Powers generates revenue and how certain cars reach the top.  Its pretty sad too, as it falls on the bias of those reviewing autos.  Same is true for the Consumer Products rag.   Of the top 10, only 2 are worth consideration.

[Old Tom Morris]

4 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

Hum, if Kia sucks then how come they are TOP RATED in the industry yardstick JD Powers IQS survey?

 

That’s an initial quality survey.  What about three years after purchase and  the warranty runs out and it begins falling apart?  36 more payments and the owner is upside down big time and can’t afford the mounting repairs.  See it all the time as I own a wrecker service and a repair shop.  Trust me, Kia and Hyundai are cheap crap aimed at consumers that want a new car but cannot afford a better quality model.  It is what it is and there has always been a market segment like this.

[Nessism]

59 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Too many people are unaware how JD Powers generates revenue and how certain cars reach the top.  Its pretty sad too, as it falls on the bias of those reviewing autos.  Same is true for the Consumer Products rag.   Of the top 10, only 2 are worth consideration.

 

JD Powers IQS ratings are 100% based on feedback from ACTUAL VEHICLE OWNERS.  JD Powers generates revenue by then selling the customer comment data to the OEM car makers.  The OEM's take this information very seriously since they want their customers to be satisfied; a satisfied customer comes back and buys another vehicle of the same brand.

 

Consumer Reports auto recommendations are a combination of their own review opinion + survey data on reliability from their subscribers.  CR is a non profit organization and there is no nefarious skewing of reviews to generate kickbacks, because there are none.  I'm acquainted with the guy that used to run their auto test group and he's a standup guy.  These ratings are not perfect, but the reliability info is good and well worth a look.  Kia and Hyundai rates about average for reliability, same as Porche and BMW.

[Nessism]

31 minutes ago, Old Tom Morris said:

That’s an initial quality survey.  What about three years after purchase and  the warranty runs out and it begins falling apart?  

 

Kia and Hyundai are built to a price point, as most cars are.  They target the low end of each segment and I'm not here to tell anyone they make cars with Toyota like long term reliability.  The vehicles are assembled well and perform as intended off the dealer lot.  In terms of three years after purchase, their warranty is 5 years and 10 for the powertrain so they got you covered.🙃  

Edited March 10, 2021 by Nessism

[Old Tom Morris]

5 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

Kia and Hyundai are built to a price point, as most cars are.  They target the low end of each segment and I'm not here to tell anyone they make cars with Toyota like long term reliability.  The vehicles are assembled well and perform as intended off the dealer lot.  In terms of three years after purchase, their warranty is 5 years and 10 for the powertrain so the got you covered.🙃  

They are definitely cheap crap that readily depreciate.  Geared toward people that lack the foresight to realize that the vehicle itself  and  72 month loan does not serve them well.  It is actually  exploiting poor people.

 

These cars look decent brand new in a showroom but long before they are paid off they are worthless.  Many of them wind up being repossessed too.  Better than walking but by no means are they a good car and certainly not a good value for anyone.

[shart6]

In my case the component heads could be alright but in the old days a Ping iron clone wasn't as good as the real thing. In the nineties it probably didn't matter, I played with a set of Cobra Greg Norman blades then switched to Hogan Forged GCD Tours. I just  spent a year testing iron heads and the best performing for me was the Titleist 735 CM in forged stainless steel. I could easily play a set of Ballistic Golf heads or any number of Japanese heads but the  desert I live in why? I'll just destroy them in sandy soil.

[Thayneil]

16 hours ago, JCAG said:

Golfers buy hope. What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday regardless of anything else.

Can i buy  Cobra single length with Texas Rebar  shafts and jumbo grips?

 

Not really off the rack ?

[Thayneil]

12 hours ago, Old Tom Morris said:

They are definitely cheap crap that readily depreciate.  Geared toward people that lack the foresight to realize that the vehicle itself  and  72 month loan does not serve them well.  It is actually  exploiting poor people.

 

These cars look decent brand new in a showroom but long before they are paid off they are worthless.  Many of them wind up being repossessed too.  Better than walking but by no means are they a good car and certainly not a good value for anyone.

Just dont see the similarity.

 

Components last just as long as OEms and actually have  a longer life as a current model.Wishon 919 Drivers still going strong after 10 years

 

The only  bad thing is they COULD  be poorly assembled and or wrongly fitted.OEms are rarely fitted ,maybe more now than previously.My local store would happily sell me a set of Mizuno Blades with stiff shafts

 

I havent played with anything other than Wishon since the opened.Played to 6 handicap for many years

 

WIshon 560 forged irons  with Wishon white graphite shafts hard stepped once with Lamkin  Grips

1 degree flat.They must be 6 or 7 years old and in excellent condition.

[HappyGilmoresBoots]

And then I remember asking a few questions about kit clubs in one of the vintage threads, and being told "Don't bother, they're junk."

[Ger21]

I started building Golfsmith clubs almost 30 years ago, to save money when I was younger. They were great clubs, at a great value, and I built a lot of sets for friends and co-workers. You could get a really nice set of irons for about $200 back then. The last set were Golfsmith Pro Forged blades, which I played for 10+ years. Scott Verplank played them on Tour for a few years. Great clubs.

Once Golfsmith was sold, their newer offerings just weren't as appealing to me. Same with most other components. I think looks ae very important, and most components are lacking compared to the major OEM's.

There are a couple reasons you don't see more components today.

1) Most people want to play whay the pros play.

2) Most people aren't even aware of component clubs. Other than a tiny ad in the back of a magazine, the average person will never come in contact with them.

[driveandputtmachine]

When there was a Golfsmith in Atlanta I often tried their heads and played their clubs.  I was younger, looking for cheaper clubs in the 2003 and 2004 years.  I had some of their irons and wedges.  I never cared for their drivers or fairways though.

 

Once I moved to the Carolina coast, no more Golfsmith to try before I bought.  Therefore no more Golfsmith clubs in the bag.  Of course they were sold shortly thereafter, so the point was going to be moot anyway.

 

A big chunk of the golfing public walk into a big box store, hit a few balls and buy clubs.  The other big chunk walk in and try them, and then go online to find them cheaper.  The other 5 or 10% of us get fitted, or have ideas about our clubs and what we need and piece them together through the internet, probably after trying them at a big box store.

 

I do not doubt some of the club component companies make good clubs, I just prefer to go to the box store try some before I buy and component clubs haven't tempted me since I cannot try them.

[Guy In Lyon]

On 3/8/2021 at 7:14 PM, woodriff said:

I realize it’s all about marketing...

The reason ^

 

All it would take to change that would be for someone to win a major using Maltby clubs.

[chipa]

2 hours ago, Guy In Lyon said:

The reason ^

 

All it would take to change that would be for someone to win a major using Maltby clubs.

 

That's probably not happening anytime soon with al the money companies pay players to use their equipment. Also, as far as irons go big companies can make a club to suit a players specs but make it look like a model they sell to the public so that means pros can easily get what they want.

[Pepperturbo]

17 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

JD Powers IQS ratings are 100% based on feedback from ACTUAL VEHICLE OWNERS.  JD Powers generates revenue by then selling the customer comment data to the OEM car makers.  The OEM's take this information very seriously since they want their customers to be satisfied; a satisfied customer comes back and buys another vehicle of the same brand.

 

Consumer Reports auto recommendations are a combination of their own review opinion + survey data on reliability from their subscribers.  CR is a non profit organization and there is no nefarious skewing of reviews to generate kickbacks, because there are none.  I'm acquainted with the guy that used to run their auto test group and he's a standup guy.  These ratings are not perfect, but the reliability info is good and well worth a look.  Kia and Hyundai rates about average for reliability, same as Porche and BMW.

Other than my farm childhood, our family business was the Auto MFG industry.  I know more about it that I am sharing.  You have a good day.

[Nessism]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Other than my farm childhood, our family business was the Auto MFG industry.  I know more about it that I am sharing.  You have a good day.

 

I spent 21 years working for a Japanese OEM auto manufacturer, in their Quality department. One of the various jobs over those years involved spending hundreds of hours pouring over JD Powers customer comment "verbatim" data and preparing reports to be sent to the appropriate organization within the company so the customer complaint problems can be eliminated.  If the problem traced back to a design problem the report went to the R&D group.  If it was related to a build quality problem the report went to the manufacturing plant.  I could go on but suffice it to say that I've got direct personal experience regarding JD Powers, where the data comes from, and how it's used.  Your suggestion that the ratings are bogus and somehow bought is BS.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Nessism

[kjbuckeye]

On 3/8/2021 at 6:18 PM, BogeyParBogey said:

Most people on WRX and other forums I think have the disposable income to buy the clubs they want to play.  Others are looking for bargains and would consider components.   

 

I think the other aspect of WRX is that this is not the normal golfer.  I suspect the 300 yard drives / 115 MPH driver swing speed, etc... is NOT fake.  These people can really play.  If you swing it that fast you need a better shaft than the Score LT or other bargain shafts.  Personally, I could play fine with the Score LT, but I swing slower than most here. 

 

Are you really going to take component heads and put $40-45 Project X 6.5 shafts in it?  I doubt it.

 

The other side is that Golfworks for example has gotten much more expensive for their high end clubs.  The premium paks are reduced in options now.  TS1/TS2 heads are $50 each.  If you play TS1/TS2 unless you fit the KBS Tour 105/Score LT you are paying full retail for shafts or buying pulls/ebay shafts.   

 

I have a set of TE Forged with DG R300 and they are very nice. I'd recommend them if someone wants a good feeling, "traditional" spec, 5 step forged iron.

 

Dave

7 Piece set of Maltby TS-1 heads, Modus 105 shafts, and tour velvet grips built to your specs run you $735 after taxes and shipping. Compared to the cost of OEM forged offerings at $1200-1400.

 

Golfworks has reduced their pak offerings because they now offer their custom build shop for free as far as I can tell. They don't need paks when you can build any set make-up you want. 

 

Malby's cast clubs are still a great price at ~$20 per head

[deepred]

Golfworks, TS1/2 with KBS shafts in either stiff or regular flex, standard length Golf Pride grips, 399.99. So basically you are getting free shafts and grips with assembly for free. Last summer they frequently put clubs from the custom shop on a 20% discount. 

 

Bought a set of DBM forged irons with DG105 shafts, Winn grips, $56 a club. Can’t touch that with a new forged club.

 

[Ger21]

Also, for the thrifty among us, there are great deals to be found on brand new previous generation clubs. It's been a few years now, but I paid $599 for my brand new VR Pro's on Ebay.

A few months ago you could get brand new Honma drivers for $125. I pad $95 for my brand new hybrids that have $170 shafts in them.

So you can get major OEM clubs for the same or less than components, in a lot of cases.

This wasn't the case 25 years ago in Golfsmith's heyday.