Iron shafts for bad elbows

[clp34vmp]

I'm thinking about making a switch to graphite shafts after a long battle with elbow trouble that started over a year ago and is likely to end with a surgery late this year. I'm currently playing Mizuno 919 HMP's with Modus3 105 stiff shafts hardstepped that I was fitted for about a year and half ago. The clubs perform well, and I honestly don't think that they're the specific cause of my elbow issues, but I still feel like it would make sense to do what I can to protect what is clearly a problem area for me the best that I can.

 

I really can't afford to do a whole fitting deal again, so I'll probably look to pick up some used irons with graphite for the short term. Never having played graphite shafts in my irons, I have a pretty basic question for the many on here who are far more knowledgeable than me regarding differences between what I see (in my limited knowledge anyway) as the two different types of graphite shafts available on the market - the basic all graphite shafts (like a recoil) vs. what seems to me is a more composite shaft (like a Steelfiber or a C-Taper Lite.) I could certainly be misinterpreting those two categories, but, specifically in terms of the vibration-damping characteristics of the shafts, is there a difference in these two types? 

 

I feel like if I'm going to switch to graphite for the specific reason of protecting my elbow, it would make sense to go with the type of  shaft that provides the most benefit in that regard.

[jeffrey r]

1 hour ago, clp34vmp said:

I'm thinking about making a switch to graphite shafts after a long battle with elbow trouble that started over a year ago and is likely to end with a surgery late this year. I'm currently playing Mizuno 919 HMP's with Modus3 105 stiff shafts hardstepped that I was fitted for about a year and half ago. The clubs perform well, and I honestly don't think that they're the specific cause of my elbow issues, but I still feel like it would make sense to do what I can to protect what is clearly a problem area for me the best that I can.

 

I really can't afford to do a whole fitting deal again, so I'll probably look to pick up some used irons with graphite for the short term. Never having played graphite shafts in my irons, I have a pretty basic question for the many on here who are far more knowledgeable than me regarding differences between what I see (in my limited knowledge anyway) as the two different types of graphite shafts available on the market - the basic all graphite shafts (like a recoil) vs. what seems to me is a more composite shaft (like a Steelfiber or a C-Taper Lite.) I could certainly be misinterpreting those two categories, but, specifically in terms of the vibration-damping characteristics of the shafts, is there a difference in these two types? 

 

I feel like if I'm going to switch to graphite for the specific reason of protecting my elbow, it would make sense to go with the type of  shaft that provides the most benefit in that regard.

 

You're on the right track looking at graphite shafts if you have elbow problems.  No doubt, graphite is easier on the joints, and these days, gives up little if at all compared to steel shafts.  Graphite shafts are not cheap though, and are in fact generally pretty expensive.  I appreciate that you want to save money on a fitting, but not sure how you will know what works for you without demoing shafts, or going down the rabbit hole of taking a stab which may or may not work.

 

If you play Modus 105 stiff shafts hardstepped, you can play plenty of shaft.  Lots of great options these days 95g and up, and I love Steelfibers 95/110, Recoil 95, and now Kuro Kage 105.  Kuro Kage 105 stiff would be comparable to Modus 105 stiff in my experience.  Also, MMT 95/105, Catalyst 100, and some others.  I would not get too hung up on different construction.  These premium, premier graphite shafts are all amazing shafts, and easier on your body than steel.  Definitely some differences among them in terms of feel, and of course some differences in launch, spin, etc.  Good luck.

[clp34vmp]

1 hour ago, jeffrey r said:

 

You're on the right track looking at graphite shafts if you have elbow problems.  No doubt, graphite is easier on the joints, and these days, gives up little if at all compared to steel shafts.  Graphite shafts are not cheap though, and are in fact generally pretty expensive.  I appreciate that you want to save money on a fitting, but not sure how you will know what works for you without demoing shafts, or going down the rabbit hole of taking a stab which may or may not work.

 

If you play Modus 105 stiff shafts hardstepped, you can play plenty of shaft.  Lots of great options these days 95g and up, and I love Steelfibers 95/110, Recoil 95, and now Kuro Kage 105.  Kuro Kage 105 stiff would be comparable to Modus 105 stiff in my experience.  Also, MMT 95/105, Catalyst 100, and some others.  I would not get too hung up on different construction.  These premium, premier graphite shafts are all amazing shafts, and easier on your body than steel.  Definitely some differences among them in terms of feel, and of course some differences in launch, spin, etc.  Good luck.

I agree grabbing clubs untried is not ideal; I'd look for something that didn't require a huge investment, see how I like it, and then in the future look to upgrade a bit down the line. I'm definitely intrigued by the steelfibers. I have a steelfiber 95 in my #4 Srixon utility iron and like it a lot. I think I'd have no problem playing those shafts. I just want to make sure that, if I'm changing clubs specifically because of elbow issues, what I'm switching to is going to provide the max amount of benefit.

[jeffrey r]

1 hour ago, clp34vmp said:

I agree grabbing clubs untried is not ideal; I'd look for something that didn't require a huge investment, see how I like it, and then in the future look to upgrade a bit down the line. I'm definitely intrigued by the steelfibers. I have a steelfiber 95 in my #4 Srixon utility iron and like it a lot. I think I'd have no problem playing those shafts. I just want to make sure that, if I'm changing clubs specifically because of elbow issues, what I'm switching to is going to provide the max amount of benefit.

 

I hear you.  Do what you need to do.  The Steelfiber 95 is an amazing shaft.  Until I just recently landed on the Kuro Kage 105 graphite shafts with Titleist, I was playing Steelfiber 95 regular in a set of C300 Forged irons.  Such good shafts, and I could go back to them anytime.  Also like the Recoil 95 in F3 (regular), which I have in a set of 919 Forged irons and provide just a bit more feel and kick than the Steelfibers.  Plenty of great options.

Edited April 19, 2021 by jeffrey r

[Pekeface68]

I've tried Steelfiber, MMT, Recoil, Recoil Proto, Accra, to name a few to help my elbows. The best for me were True Temper Elevate Tour. Not graphite, but the only one that eliminated all my pain. The VSS technology in those shafts work really well.

[phizzy30]

On 4/19/2021 at 10:44 AM, clp34vmp said:

I'm thinking about making a switch to graphite shafts after a long battle with elbow trouble that started over a year ago and is likely to end with a surgery late this year. I'm currently playing Mizuno 919 HMP's with Modus3 105 stiff shafts hardstepped that I was fitted for about a year and half ago. The clubs perform well, and I honestly don't think that they're the specific cause of my elbow issues, but I still feel like it would make sense to do what I can to protect what is clearly a problem area for me the best that I can.

 

I really can't afford to do a whole fitting deal again, so I'll probably look to pick up some used irons with graphite for the short term. Never having played graphite shafts in my irons, I have a pretty basic question for the many on here who are far more knowledgeable than me regarding differences between what I see (in my limited knowledge anyway) as the two different types of graphite shafts available on the market - the basic all graphite shafts (like a recoil) vs. what seems to me is a more composite shaft (like a Steelfiber or a C-Taper Lite.) I could certainly be misinterpreting those two categories, but, specifically in terms of the vibration-damping characteristics of the shafts, is there a difference in these two types? 

 

I feel like if I'm going to switch to graphite for the specific reason of protecting my elbow, it would make sense to go with the type of  shaft that provides the most benefit in that regard.

I have the recoil protos in my old set and the MMT is in my current set.  Recoils being graphite and MMT being composite.  No difference in vibration dampening.  Both feel great and toe and thin misses don't hurt nearly as much. 

[rawa13]

A lot of good information in this thread!

 

To lessen my elbow issues, I tried UST Recoil 95 with Taylormade 790 (2021 version) clubheads and absolutely loved those, even getting 8 more yards.

Certainly, they increase the cost, so I am debating following options. I haven't tried only #1 -

1. UST Recoil 95
2. MMT 95 - These are standard in some 790 sets, so could reduce the price
3. Dynamic Golf 95 VSS (R300) - These are standard in some 790 sets, so could reduce the price
4. Steelfiber

Essentially, I prefer to have a shaft lighter than 95 gms and the elbow issue is the #1 priority, so if I have to go with the expensive option, I would.

 

Advice?

 

Thank you.

Edited August 30, 2021 by rawa13

[Ghostwedge]

Try to switch into similar weight graphite shafts and thank me later.

Going from 110 - 120g steel shafts to stock 75g graphite on most iron sets doesn't work very well. 

 

[rawa13]

43 minutes ago, Ghostwedge said:

Try to switch into similar weight graphite shafts and thank me later.

Going from 110 - 120g steel shafts to stock 75g graphite on most iron sets doesn't work very well. 

 

 

Thank you. So, Graphite's impact-absorbing properties are more helpful than the the simple (reduced) weight factor?

[Stuart_G]

3 hours ago, rawa13 said:

 

Thank you. So, Graphite's impact-absorbing properties are more helpful than the the simple (reduced) weight factor?

 

Correct.   Graphite absorbs a lot of shock at impact that travels up the shaft into the arm.   That is completely independent of weight or flex as well.

 

Now, some medical problems can be aggravated by factors that occur during the swing and not necessarily just at impact.  For those conditions, the weight and the stiffness could possibly be contributing factors as well.   Unfortunately, you really wont know how much that might be the case until you test out the heavier/stiffer graphite options.  But it is more common for people to get the relief they need just switching to graphite of any weight.

Edited August 30, 2021 by Stuart_G

[vtpachyderm]

I have a prosthetic elbow after a bad MTB crash (am 46 years old, and it's been 4 years now). I switched from 105g Regular Steel shafts, to Recoil 95 F3's at first (a year after I crashed) which helped immensely with regards to pain and let me continue playing. At the start of this year, I moved into Recoil 110 F4's as my swing came back (100-103 mph driver swing when I swing for the fences, average about 95-98 when I play), and can play without pain over multiple days. Tried the MMT's at 95g and they felt even softer on my elbow, that I'm contemplating maybe getting them now. My advice would be to also try with different weights as well, as lighter shafts can also help reduce stress on the elbow/arm.

 

I see little to no difference in terms of performance when I try to swing steel of similar weight and stiffness every now and then, but do notice the elbow hurts a lot more after about 10 hits with steel (less if it's off a mat).

[968cab]

8 hours ago, Ghostwedge said:

Try to switch into similar weight graphite shafts and thank me later.

Going from 110 - 120g steel shafts to stock 75g graphite on most iron sets doesn't work very well. 

 

 

 

Anecdotal, but I went from PX LZ 5.5 (115g) that I was professionally fit into, to Recoil 95 F4 on my own. Playing better/great golf since switching, and with no pain. 

 

Smooth tempo/transition, 95-98 Driver, 83mph 6i.

 

20grams is a lot less than a 40gram change, but I eliminated the 110 range of graphite (recoil/SF) without hesitation

[rawa13]

Thanks guys. I will now focus on 95 gm and thereabout only.

 

Any differentiating points for these 4 options? For my situation, I read that UST, MMT, and even SF would be effective but what about Dynamic Golf 95 VSS (R300)?

1. UST Recoil 95
2. MMT 95 - These are standard in some 790 sets, so could reduce the price
3. Dynamic Golf 95 VSS (R300) - These are standard in some 790 sets, so could reduce the price
4. Steelfiber

[vtpachyderm]

17 minutes ago, rawa13 said:

Thanks guys. I will now focus on 95 gm and thereabout only.

 

Any differentiating points for these 4 options? For my situation, I read that UST, MMT, and even SF would be effective but what about Dynamic Golf 95 VSS (R300)?

1. UST Recoil 95
2. MMT 95 - These are standard in some 790 sets, so could reduce the price
3. Dynamic Golf 95 VSS (R300) - These are standard in some 790 sets, so could reduce the price
4. Steelfiber

I have a Recoil 95 on my utility ZU85 3 iron (play the 110s on my irons, Apex Pro 16) and am contemplating getting the MMT 95s for my next set. Felt a bit more lively than the Recoils (to me) and consequently a tad gentler on the elbow when trying the 21 Apex Pros. 
 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, rawa13 said:

Thanks guys. I will now focus on 95 gm and thereabout only.

 

Any differentiating points for these 4 options? For my situation, I read that UST, MMT, and even SF would be effective but what about Dynamic Golf 95 VSS (R300)?

1. UST Recoil 95
2. MMT 95 - These are standard in some 790 sets, so could reduce the price
3. Dynamic Golf 95 VSS (R300) - These are standard in some 790 sets, so could reduce the price
4. Steelfiber

 

Actually there are two steelfiber options.  The i95 is going to be the lowest launching (stiffest tip).   The fc90 is going to be the highest launching (softest tip) and the Recoil 95 is going to be between those two.  Can't speak to the MMT's or DG VSS on how they fit in with the other three.

 

[rawa13]

4 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Actually there are two steelfiber options.  The i95 is going to be the lowest launching (stiffest tip).   The fc90 is going to be the highest launching (softest tip) and the Recoil 95 is going to be between those two.  Can't speak to the MMT's or DG VSS on how they fit in with the other three.

 

 

Thank you. Keeping aside the launch aspect, how do they compare on the elbow?

[Stuart_G]

21 minutes ago, rawa13 said:

 

Thank you. Keeping aside the launch aspect, how do they compare on the elbow?

 

If it's just with respect to impact vibration - they're going to be about the same.   If there is a swing contribution, that's something only you'll be able to figure out by testing.

[rawa13]

Tried several options - p790 (2021), Mizuno 921, Mizuno 900 (my current set) with Recoil 95 and MMT shafts. Loved p790s but the price tag, with customizations, was a concern. Eventually, tried sim2 max (2021) with recoil 95s and loved the assembly. It's 40% cheaper compared to p790s, so went ahead with it. 

 

Thanks again for all the advice. Incredibly useful. 

[sociojeje]

On 3/9/2021 at 9:31 AM, Lobber said:

I am alternating between SF 95 and MMT95.  Great shafts.  No pain.  Excellent dispersion, launch and feel.  Even picked up a few yards w/o loss of accuracy

I tried sf95 but never MMT95. Can you compare those two a bit? I like the numbers from SF95s but the shaft felt quite harsh without much feel... 

[Hawkeye77]

Graphite has been a difference maker BUT . . . . in terms of what may be part of decades of root cause, different wrist conditions I've tried to incorporate via Monte into my swing the past 2-3 seasons really put a lot less stress on my left elbow - just one of those things I've notice in particular this year.

[ChipNRun]

On 3/9/2021 at 9:14 AM, Lobber said:

GRAPHITE - IT AIN'T JUST FOR GRANDPA ANYMORE!

 

Back circa 2014 I tried some graphite iron shafts, and they just felt a bit feathery. Tended to overswing at demo day tryouts. This is no longer the case. Recent rough fittings the last 18 months show many light (below 90 grams) and lighter (below 80 grams) shafts to be quite solid and well balanced.

 

One challenge to golfers: Finding the right graphite shaft requires a lot of tryouts by you. There is no 1-to-1 matchup between steel and graphite shafts. KBS shaft X doesn't have a direct equivalent in say, Recoil.

 

On 3/10/2021 at 12:42 AM, thesamwise said:

Recoils are CASH MONEY my guy. Launch high, land soft, and have eliminated the pain I feel from my golfer's elbow. ...

 

I have Marvik MAX irons inbound (or so Callaway says) with Catalyst 65 graphite shafts - parallel, average 75 grams trimmed out. I'm dropping about 20 grams on the shafts, but the shaft balance in both January and August fittings felt good. I have an arthritic right hip with murmurs of possible replacement, plus a penchant for tendonitis and past bouts with golfers elbow.

 

The outdoor August fitting saw me really swing on tempo, cutting down on the left-to-right spread on shots. I dropped about 10 grams a shaft when I replaced my long clubs in 2020. Longer shot accuracy has improved, and distance is more consistent to high end.

 

Key moment: I played in the two-day area amateur championship in October 2020. Turns out I was the only one in my 70-and-over foursome that was still playing steel-shafted irons. After the ending awards, the bracket winner came over to my golf bag, inspected my 5i and said, "John!!! You need to go to graphite!!!" 

[jeffrey r]

Love Labor Day weekend, and love graphite iron shafts.  18 holes, day 3 out of 4 in a row in the books.  No elbow pain.  Thank you Steelfibers (with backer rod inserts for good measure)!

[rawa13]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:58 AM, rawa13 said:

Tried several options - p790 (2021), Mizuno 921, Mizuno 900 (my current set) with Recoil 95 and MMT shafts. Loved p790s but the price tag, with customizations, was a concern. Eventually, tried sim2 max (2021) with recoil 95s and loved the assembly. It's 40% cheaper compared to p790s, so went ahead with it. 

 

Thanks again for all the advice. Incredibly useful. 

Graphite shafts are working great so far and have actually added 8-10 yards.

[rawa13]

On 10/19/2021 at 12:29 PM, rawa13 said:

Graphite shafts are working great so far and have actually added 8-10 yards.

Graphite shafts and Flexbar have been helping tremendously. With Flexbar, my strength has gone from sets of 10 to 35, and that shows when I play golf.