Mizuno MP-22

[uglande]

2 hours ago, bgfgolf said:

Thought these were interesting, and while I've seen a good bit of comparison data on YouTube I haven't seen this 'best fit' table before.

 

Once again, HMP is a beast, but the 225 just look so good.

 

Here's the full review. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDmeJrujg1s

Great stuff here. I was very close, about a month ago, to ordering a blended set of 921 Forged and HMP irons. The forged are some of the best feeling irons in that category, and the HMPs are bombers without looking too clunky. But for now I'm all in on the 225s and will figure it all out in February. 

[bgfgolf]

22 minutes ago, Lemonde said:

TXG did a review of the entire line.  Interesting that they seemed to be underwhelmed with the non chromolly heads, eg Ian had to bend the 223 46 PW to 45 to match to Matt’s current gamer yardage. They liked what they saw out of the chromolly heads. While it could be said what is the big deal as it’s only a degree but bending strong creates offset.  
 

I will be sticking with my 921F.  

Yea, but they were pretty blown away by the 225.

[bgfgolf]

6 minutes ago, uglande said:

Great stuff here. I was very close, about a month ago, to ordering a blended set of 921 Forged and HMP irons. The forged are some of the best feeling irons in that category, and the HMPs are bombers without looking too clunky. But for now I'm all in on the 225s and will figure it all out in February. 

That's pretty much my situation exactly.

[Mashume]

After watching the reviews, I'm torn between the 223s and the 225s. I was originally all in for the 223 idea. but then the reviews of the 225 are just so glowing and the 223s not so much so.

 

 

To elaborate, I've never been a fan of stronger lofts -- which is why I wasn't considering the 225s. And I wonder about the increased bounce if I had them all bent say 2° weaker than stock. 

 

Any one out there have experience with weakening lofts and the effect on bounce? I tend to be a sweeper and take small divots but that may be that I grew up on munis with hard fairways.

 

thanks

 

[hardcaliber]

5 hours ago, uglande said:

Great stuff here. I was very close, about a month ago, to ordering a blended set of 921 Forged and HMP irons. The forged are some of the best feeling irons in that category, and the HMPs are bombers without looking too clunky. But for now I'm all in on the 225s and will figure it all out in February. 

 

I'm currently playing a blended set of JPX 921 forged 6-P with HMP 4-5.  JPX 921 forged are really nice but there is a bit of a jack of all trades master of none issue.  That's why I started blending in the HMP long irons.  In the scoring irons, i really miss the control i had with MP-20 MMC and MP 15.  So I want to get back into a small profile CB in the short irons but not sure about 223 vs 225.  Leaning toward 223 since i have disliked hollow in the past but i don't like how the short irons in 223 have no tech (no tungsten, no titanium, no slot).  I like a small profile CB with a bit of tech built in.

[Whatnogarnish]

My local fitter has their demos delivered this weekend. Hopefully I can get in there and hit them this week. 

[NRJyzr]

23 hours ago, Mashume said:

After watching the reviews, I'm torn between the 223s and the 225s. I was originally all in for the 223 idea. but then the reviews of the 225 are just so glowing and the 223s not so much so.

 

 

 

To elaborate, I've never been a fan of stronger lofts -- which is why I wasn't considering the 225s. And I wonder about the increased bounce if I had them all bent say 2° weaker than stock. 

 

Any one out there have experience with weakening lofts and the effect on bounce? I tend to be a sweeper and take small divots but that may be that I grew up on munis with hard fairways.

 

thanks

 

 

I'm a little disappointed with the lofts, it's mainly the gaps.  5* gaps in short irons to some 2.5* gaps in longer clubs.  Ugh.

 

Would need tweaking, but I doubt I could go full set with 225 for same reasons you're describing.

 

[kerila07]

Just finished trying these I currently game MP20 MMCs I saw a slight increase in distance when comparing the 223s they definitely feel more powerful than MMCs.  I decided to give the 225s a try they were actually flying higher than my current set despite the stronger loft while obviously going further as well.  Ended up ordering a set of the 225s since I already have MMCs.  Only issues I might see with the 223s would be the transition from chromoly and the slots to the standard forging there could be a larger distance gap there than the lofts would suggest.  I’m impressed and looking forward to giving them a go.

[noodle3872]

2 hours ago, kerila07 said:

Just finished trying these I currently game MP20 MMCs I saw a slight increase in distance when comparing the 223s they definitely feel more powerful than MMCs.  I decided to give the 225s a try they were actually flying higher than my current set despite the stronger loft while obviously going further as well.  Ended up ordering a set of the 225s since I already have MMCs.  Only issues I might see with the 223s would be the transition from chromoly and the slots to the standard forging there could be a larger distance gap there than the lofts would suggest.  I’m impressed and looking forward to giving them a go.

Gapping from chromoly 7i to 1020E 8i hasn’t been an issue for my 921F. 

[CF88]

Has anyone had a chance to see the 225's next to the HMB's? I'm really curious to see how much of a size difference there really is between the two.

[uglande]

26 minutes ago, CF88 said:

Has anyone had a chance to see the 225's next to the HMB's? I'm really curious to see how much of a size difference there really is between the two.

I can't find the photos now but I remember seeing the side-by-side. It reminded me of the difference between a P770 and a P790. 

[CF88]

1 hour ago, uglande said:

I can't find the photos now but I remember seeing the side-by-side. It reminded me of the difference between a P770 and a P790. 

Thank you for the response! If that were the case I would be very happy. Can anyone confirm? I really enjoyed having the HMB's in the bag for half of last season, but they were just a little too chunky to my eye. 

[uglande]

40 minutes ago, CF88 said:

Thank you for the response! If that were the case I would be very happy. Can anyone confirm? I really enjoyed having the HMB's in the bag for half of last season, but they were just a little too chunky to my eye. 

Michael Newton just did a compare with the P790 and the 225. They look similarly sized by the 225 a little slimmer, and just sleeker looking overall with the beveled soul and less offset. But this makes me think the 225 is basically right in-between the 770 and 790. (BTW, I thought from his testing that the 225 outperformed the P790 - not by a huge margin but slightly better in looks, feel and numbers). 

[Heck2507]

On 12/12/2021 at 6:42 AM, bgfgolf said:

Yea, but they were pretty blown away by the 225.

Maybe it’s just me but they didn’t touch on the gapping of that iron at all. Obviously these clubs are not meant for a player of his caliber or swing speed, but he’s looking at 50 yards between the PW and 7, that’s no bueno in my mind. 
 

I also don’t understand the 5* gaps in lofts on the scoring clubs then shrinking in the long irons. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Heck2507

[uglande]

1 hour ago, Heck2507 said:

Maybe it’s just me but they didn’t touch on the gapping of that iron at all. Obviously these clubs are not meant for a player of his caliber or swing speed, but he’s looking at 50 yards between the PW and 7, that’s no bueno in my mind. 
 

I also don’t understand the 5* gaps in lofts on the scoring clubs then shrinking in the long irons. 

I like 15 yard gaps, so that's not too far off. My ideal gap would be to hit the 225 PW around 140 and the 7i around 185. Seems do-able. 

[Mashume]

2 hours ago, Heck2507 said:

Maybe it’s just me but they didn’t touch on the gapping of that iron at all. Obviously these clubs are not meant for a player of his caliber or swing speed, but he’s looking at 50 yards between the PW and 7, that’s no bueno in my mind. 
 

I also don’t understand the 5* gaps in lofts on the scoring clubs then shrinking in the long irons. 

Perhaps, and I've been thinking about this a lot recently, Mizuno has been trying to go with useful gaps in distance rather than lofts? I don't know, but it's the only thing that makes any sense. As sets get longer and longer the yardage gaps have to get bigger somewhere. We drive the ball 250+ (adjust this number as you see fit but...) regularly. when persimmons ruled and the 4° gap was the rule, the whole range was compressed significantly from where it is today.

 

2.8¢ of mine, counting for inflation

[NRJyzr]

8 hours ago, Mashume said:

Perhaps, and I've been thinking about this a lot recently, Mizuno has been trying to go with useful gaps in distance rather than lofts? I don't know, but it's the only thing that makes any sense. As sets get longer and longer the yardage gaps have to get bigger somewhere. We drive the ball 250+ (adjust this number as you see fit but...) regularly. when persimmons ruled and the 4° gap was the rule, the whole range was compressed significantly from where it is today.

 

2.8¢ of mine, counting for inflation

 

This won't be popular, but...

 

5* gaps in short irons and squeezed gaps in longer irons is part of using distance to sell.  It's an easy way to make the 7 iron stronger without having a 40* PW.

 

The modern version of the King Cobra irons of the early 90s.

 

[Micrys2]

I am a feel player. I currently play the Srixon ZX7’s. Which of these would be the closest to the 7’s in feel, and what would the forgiveness penalty be?

 

Much appreciate your responses. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Micrys2

[kerila07]

On 12/13/2021 at 5:33 PM, kerila07 said:

Just finished trying these I currently game MP20 MMCs I saw a slight increase in distance when comparing the 223s they definitely feel more powerful than MMCs.  I decided to give the 225s a try they were actually flying higher than my current set despite the stronger loft while obviously going further as well.  Ended up ordering a set of the 225s since I already have MMCs.  Only issues I might see with the 223s would be the transition from chromoly and the slots to the standard forging there could be a larger distance gap there than the lofts would suggest.  I’m impressed and looking forward to giving them a go.

Here are the results I was getting indoors on gc2 with prov1 left dash current set is Mp20 mmc.  Removing a few mishits and misreads I saw ball speed and distance increases with both the 223 and 225.  I typically hit a slight pull fade as you’ll see.  I was very impressed with the 225s despite the lower spin the descent angle is still plenty and I could always play a spinnier ball if needed.

[kylesilk]

54 minutes ago, kerila07 said:

Here are the results I was getting indoors on gc2 with prov1 left dash current set is Mp20 mmc.  Removing a few mishits and misreads I saw ball speed and distance increases with both the 223 and 225.  I typically hit a slight pull fade as you’ll see.  I was very impressed with the 225s despite the lower spin the descent angle is still plenty and I could always play a spinnier ball if needed.

How was the feel on the 225?  

[kerila07]

3 minutes ago, kylesilk said:

How was the feel on the 225?  

Compared to the MP20s both the 223 and 225 felt slightly firmer and faster off the face than the MP20 MMC.  Which is to be expected since the MP20s are 1025 forged throughout the entire set.  I did not notice much of a difference at all between the 223 and 225 on center strikes.  My miss is on the toe area and I actually preferred the feel of the 225's in feel and forgiveness for that miss.  I'm not the longest hitter I averaged approximately 93mph with the 7 iron on the mizuno analyzer and was fit into the c taper 130 soft stepped.  I do play the left dash which is quite a firm ball so my experience on feel may differ significantly compared to others.  I would definitely recommend giving them a try if you have the chance.

[Jmccas]

9 hours ago, kerila07 said:

Here are the results I was getting indoors on gc2 with prov1 left dash current set is Mp20 mmc.  Removing a few mishits and misreads I saw ball speed and distance increases with both the 223 and 225.  I typically hit a slight pull fade as you’ll see.  I was very impressed with the 225s despite the lower spin the descent angle is still plenty and I could always play a spinnier ball if needed.

Is it me or does it seem like the 221/223/225 are lower spinning compared to the prior generation? I’m not sure if this was a design choice to help produce a flatter flight but in all the data/reviews I’ve seen, all three lines seem to be spinning considerably less than the prior generation. 
 

[Tree Levino]

8 hours ago, kerila07 said:

Compared to the MP20s both the 223 and 225 felt slightly firmer and faster off the face than the MP20 MMC.  Which is to be expected since the MP20s are 1025 forged throughout the entire set.  I did not notice much of a difference at all between the 223 and 225 on center strikes.  My miss is on the toe area and I actually preferred the feel of the 225's in feel and forgiveness for that miss.  I'm not the longest hitter I averaged approximately 93mph with the 7 iron on the mizuno analyzer and was fit into the c taper 130 soft stepped.  I do play the left dash which is quite a firm ball so my experience on feel may differ significantly compared to others.  I would definitely recommend giving them a try if you have the chance.

Numbers look good. I’d go 223 based on what I see there. Same ball speed with more consistent/higher spin. Just as a side note, I’d go at least a half flex down from what the optimizer says. That thing is broken as all hell. The amount of times I have seen people on here get fit into shafts that are WAY too stiff for them (myself included) is wild. FWIW my gamer speed with 7i is around 95-97 but can get it over 100 easily and the c taper 130x soft stepped felt horrible when trying to take anything off of it. It’s one thing bashing balls into the sim but on course it’s not a fun shaft to play, and that’s coming from someone who plays X7 soft stepped now. I’d go 125 S+ at most but probably the stiff would be enough. The optimizer has something in the algorithm that makes it fit very stiff. When I first got fit with it I was around your speed. Got fit into $taper 130x and bought the blades with those shafts and could not load them. Was thinning everything. Anyways, I’d really think long and hard about playing that shaft at your speed. 

[kerila07]

38 minutes ago, Jmccas said:

Is it me or does it seem like the 221/223/225 are lower spinning compared to the prior generation? I’m not sure if this was a design choice to help produce a flatter flight but in all the data/reviews I’ve seen, all three lines seem to be spinning considerably less than the prior generation. 
 

That's certainly what i experienced I can understand it with the 225 since they are 2 degrees stronger than the HMBs, however the 223 and MMC are the same lofts so there is something with the makeup of the club (chromoly, slot) which explains the difference.  I could certainly make a ball adjustment if the spin is too low however the descent angle seems to be plenty steep enough to stop.  Also this was indoors off a mat so the spin is naturally slightly lower as well.

[kerila07]

39 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

Numbers look good. I’d go 223 based on what I see there. Same ball speed with more consistent/higher spin. Just as a side note, I’d go at least a half flex down from what the optimizer says. That thing is broken as all hell. The amount of times I have seen people on here get fit into shafts that are WAY too stiff for them (myself included) is wild. FWIW my gamer speed with 7i is around 95-97 but can get it over 100 easily and the c taper 130x soft stepped felt horrible when trying to take anything off of it. It’s one thing bashing balls into the sim but on course it’s not a fun shaft to play, and that’s coming from someone who plays X7 soft stepped now. I’d go 125 S+ at most but probably the stiff would be enough. The optimizer has something in the algorithm that makes it fit very stiff. When I first got fit with it I was around your speed. Got fit into $taper 130x and bought the blades with those shafts and could not load them. Was thinning everything. Anyways, I’d really think long and hard about playing that shaft at your speed. 

Thanks for the feedback and yes I agree the optimizer fits slightly stiffer.  I have been playing c tapers since 2016 initially I played the 125s in a couple sets of Ap2s however when I switched to Mizuno they do not offer the 125s.  I currently have the 130 straight in and can definitely tell if I’m walking late in rounds and slightly fatigued the shafts are too much.  I have played them for a couple years and have gotten along ok with them hoping the soft step will improve the performance.  I went though the optimizer twice just to confirm the results.  I wish they offered the 125s it would be perfect.

 

[Tree Levino]

1 hour ago, kerila07 said:

Thanks for the feedback and yes I agree the optimizer fits slightly stiffer.  I have been playing c tapers since 2016 initially I played the 125s in a couple sets of Ap2s however when I switched to Mizuno they do not offer the 125s.  I currently have the 130 straight in and can definitely tell if I’m walking late in rounds and slightly fatigued the shafts are too much.  I have played them for a couple years and have gotten along ok with them hoping the soft step will improve the performance.  I went though the optimizer twice just to confirm the results.  I wish they offered the 125s it would be perfect.

 

Lol 130x HS, X100 HS. Why on earth does it spit that kind of thing out. So few people need that it’s insane. It’s also weird that it is very bias towards KBS shafts. I’ve never gotten along very well with a KBS in my life and it always gives me pretty much the exact same as yours. X100 and PX 6.5 work best for me. If you ever get the chance try X7 soft stepped. Such a nice shaft. 

[MK7Golf21]

30 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

Lol 130x HS, X100 HS. Why on earth does it spit that kind of thing out. So few people need that it’s insane. It’s also weird that it is very bias towards KBS shafts. I’ve never gotten along very well with a KBS in my life and it always gives me pretty much the exact same as yours. X100 and PX 6.5 work best for me. If you ever get the chance try X7 soft stepped. Such a nice shaft. 

They have his tempo near the highest 

[SouthpawRob]

2 hours ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

Numbers look good. I’d go 223 based on what I see there. Same ball speed with more consistent/higher spin. Just as a side note, I’d go at least a half flex down from what the optimizer says. That thing is broken as all hell. The amount of times I have seen people on here get fit into shafts that are WAY too stiff for them (myself included) is wild. FWIW my gamer speed with 7i is around 95-97 but can get it over 100 easily and the c taper 130x soft stepped felt horrible when trying to take anything off of it. It’s one thing bashing balls into the sim but on course it’s not a fun shaft to play, and that’s coming from someone who plays X7 soft stepped now. I’d go 125 S+ at most but probably the stiff would be enough. The optimizer has something in the algorithm that makes it fit very stiff. When I first got fit with it I was around your speed. Got fit into $taper 130x and bought the blades with those shafts and could not load them. Was thinning everything. Anyways, I’d really think long and hard about playing that shaft at your speed. 

thanks, i have my first fit with mizuno in a few weeks. im sure they will use the optimizer and now i can be aware for stiffness and being able to load the shaft. im lefty so i only get the 223, but really want to get dialed with the perfect shaft

[kerila07]

1 minute ago, SouthpawRob said:

thanks, i have my first fit with mizuno in a few weeks. im sure they will use the optimizer and now i can be aware for stiffness and being able to load the shaft. im lefty so i only get the 223, but really want to get dialed with the perfect shaft

Just an fyi there is a setting within the app when choosing shafts under recommended options make sure they have all available selected, this will allow them to recommend hard stepping or soft stepping.  Have fun at the fitting.

[SouthpawRob]

5 minutes ago, kerila07 said:

Just an fyi there is a setting within the app when choosing shafts under recommended options make sure they have all available selected, this will allow them to recommend hard stepping or soft stepping.  Have fun at the fitting.

perfect! thanks for the info. i’ll make sure my fitter selects that setting.