One length irons WOW!!!

[BogeyParBogey]

My F9 one length hybrids (21*, 24*) arrived a few days ago and I put them in the bag for my league on Monday night.  I ended up shooting a 44 which is a little better than normal. 

 

I used the hybrids a lot, 9 times total and overall I was pleased. 

 

3 of the 9 were not very good, I was a bit amped up on the first one and topped it, I hit a very thin par 5 2nd shot a few holes later, and hit the approach on #9 a bit right on a very tight hole and it ended up just right of the OB stake.  The 6 out of 9 good ones were very encouraging, a par 3 shot that just missed a GIR but set up a par, a 3rd shot GIR after the thin one on a par 5 that set up a par, a good tee shot on a short par 4, and 3 successful max advances.

 

The key here for me is the ball mostly wants to go straight and is easy to elevate.  My bad miss with long clubs in the past has been a fade/slice.  I was a bit concerned about some reviews that noted lack of height.  I'm hitting them plenty high.

 

The 7-GW Speedzone one length irons have shipped from Cobra and are supposed to be here on Saturday.

 

Dave

[LObin]

Hello fellow SL players,

 

I'm looking for advice from those of you who've played / tried Sterling's and cobra forged tec black one.

 

I have above average swing speed (155y 9 iron), shoot on average somewhere between 77-82.  Always played forged player irons (Adams A12 pro, XTD forged, FG tour, etc.). I like to shape my shots and hit a lot of partial shots and knock downs.

 

I recently purchased a set of EQ1-NX 4-PW. I requested a 2nd 5 iron bent down to 21* loft. 36.75". No problem at all with the 4 and 5 iron.

Sadly, it's pretty clear the EQ1's are not for me. I can't get use to their size, feel and sound. A GI hollow iron is simply not for me.

 

I really want to give OL a try though as I don't have time to practice anymore and really believe in the concept and new technology.

 

So...

 

For those who play or have played the Sterling's, top lines and soles are definitely thinner. Do they play and feel more like a player iron? I don't mind the progressive offset but I'm not sure about blade length, feel and shot shaping abilities.

 

I have hit the Cobra black one 5 iron before and it looked, felt and performed really good. Not a fan of the progressive lie angle and 37.25" length but willing to give it a try since the heads are really nice. What about lofts and gapping?

Lofts progression is a bit odd for single lengths... 5* in the high lofted irons ànd 3* and 2* in the lower lofts. Exactly the same as the VL forged tec black. Seems quite odd to me...

 

I'm looking at used sets right now btw. I can't spend the extra $ for fitting right now sadly. I do know my game pretty well though.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Cheers!

[LObin]

14 minutes ago, Navistar said:

 

Feel your pain here, I love the concept of ol irons but the selection is pathetic. I don't see how the cobra lie angle change across clubs is correct when you technically shouldn't be swinging faster with long irons vs shirt irons. As my game is progressing, I want to grow into some players irons like the p770 or pxg0311 and nothing in ol fits that bill. Sucks

 

 

Yeah it's a bit of a shame. The 1st cobra forged one were player irons. I just don't believe the design answers the fundamental challenges of OL. 

 

The only explanation I see for Cobra's different lie angles is the AMT shafts decreasing weight. But then, following this rule, a player with faster SS whould then play his irons more upright...? Meh.

[Ghostwedge]

2 minutes ago, LObin said:

 

Yeah it's a bit of a shame. The 1st cobra forged one were player irons. I just don't believe the design answers the fundamental challenges of OL. 

 

The only explanation I see for Cobra's different lie angles is the AMT shafts decreasing weight. But then, following this rule, a player with faster SS whould then play his irons more upright...? Meh.

I must be the outlier.....

4 cap play the King Forged Tec OL 6- gw and have no issues with yardage. They look great and feel great.

[willplaysgolf]

I have been using Cobra OL irons & hybrids this year. Have had to tinker with shafts and the set makeup a bit, but no issues with the lie angles. If Cobra lied and said they were all the same I don't think I would have been able to tell they are different. 

[LObin]

10 minutes ago, Ghostwedge said:

I must be the outlier.....

4 cap play the King Forged Tec OL 6- gw and have no issues with yardage. They look great and feel great.

What do you play for your 4 and 5 iron?

[Feelingofgreatness]

1 hour ago, Navistar said:

 

Feel your pain here, I love the concept of ol irons but the selection is pathetic. I don't see how the cobra lie angle change across clubs is correct when you technically shouldn't be swinging faster with long irons vs shirt irons. As my game is progressing, I want to grow into some players irons like the p770 or pxg0311 and nothing in ol fits that bill. Sucks

 

You can make a one-length set with the new 0311 Gen4s. The new big weight allows for easy variation of swing weight to make them all matching. If you are going 5-GW and all at say 63* you only have to bend max 1.5* for lie. They are forged heads so you can easily go 3-4*.

 

PXG built me a TLT set that is MOI matching, only 1 3/4" from longest club to shortest.

[Ghostwedge]

1 hour ago, LObin said:

What do you play for your 4 and 5 iron?

5i is Cobra King Forged Tec. (standard length)

4i is a Ping G400 Crossover.

[Deepy]

 

 

4 hours ago, LObin said:

Hello fellow SL players,

 

I'm looking for advice from those of you who've played / tried Sterling's and cobra forged tec black one.

 

I have above average swing speed (155y 9 iron), shoot on average somewhere between 77-82.  Always played forged player irons (Adams A12 pro, XTD forged, FG tour, etc.). I like to shape my shots and hit a lot of partial shots and knock downs.

 

I recently purchased a set of EQ1-NX 4-PW. I requested a 2nd 5 iron bent down to 21* loft. 36.75". No problem at all with the 4 and 5 iron.

Sadly, it's pretty clear the EQ1's are not for me. I can't get use to their size, feel and sound. A GI hollow iron is simply not for me.

 

I really want to give OL a try though as I don't have time to practice anymore and really believe in the concept and new technology.

 

So...

 

For those who play or have played the Sterling's, top lines and soles are definitely thinner. Do they play and feel more like a player iron? I don't mind the progressive offset but I'm not sure about blade length, feel and shot shaping abilities.

 

I have hit the Cobra black one 5 iron before and it looked, felt and performed really good. Not a fan of the progressive lie angle and 37.25" length but willing to give it a try since the heads are really nice. What about lofts and gapping?

Lofts progression is a bit odd for single lengths... 5* in the high lofted irons ànd 3* and 2* in the lower lofts. Exactly the same as the VL forged tec black. Seems quite odd to me...

 

I'm looking at used sets right now btw. I can't spend the extra $ for fitting right now sadly. I do know my game pretty well though.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Cheers!

I'll quote myself in order to answer your question. My Cobras are all bent to 63° lie angle. I have no clue, why someone would play the original "varying lie setup", but you can easily have them bent the way you like.

The gapping is fine, I'm in your ballpark with my CHS, even though my spin numbers arent perfect yet. The high spin on the lower lofted clubs probably keeps them from developing some distance. The relative low spin on the higher lifted clubs might let them fly some extra yards. But overall the gapping is fine. You might wanna try the same tipping for all shafts - so unlike cobra builds them. I bought them this way btw.

I ordered a radspeed 4i and 5i to extend my OL setup into lower lofted (and easier to hit) clubs and have one or two more option from the tee, they are on their way.

On 7/15/2021 at 10:42 PM, Deepy said:

These are my numbers with my Cobra Forged One Black Irons. They hve the taper tip KBS $-taper shafts installed, so kinda flighted to the extreme.

 

These are my numbers from yesterday, 3-5 decent strikes per club, so decent data, but not perfect.

club - CH speed - carry[y] - carry [m] - side dev - spin

 

As you can see, the spin numbers are crazy and I think (I hope!) that the flighted shaft setup causes this. Yes, there is some difference in CH speed, but that cant cause this behaviour I believe. So will do some testing using different shafts and will not tip them differently. You can alter height of flight by loft.

 

 

[LObin]

25 minutes ago, Ghostwedge said:

5i is Cobra King Forged Tec. (standard length)

4i is a Ping G400 Crossover.

I'm sure the Cobra forged one fist gen work really well up to the 6 iron. I just don't think the head design can provide enough ball speed and optimal CG placement in the 4 and 5 iron. That's what I meant by " I don't believe the design answers the fundamental challenges of OL'....

 

[LObin]

11 minutes ago, Deepy said:

 

 

I'll quote myself in order to answer your question. My Cobras are all bent to 63° lie angle. I have no clue, why someone would play the original "varying lie setup", but you can easily have them bent the way you like.

The gapping is fine, I'm in your ballpark with my CHS, even though my spin numbers arent perfect yet. The high spin on the lower lofted clubs probably keeps them from developing some distance. The relative low spin on the higher lifted clubs might let them fly some extra yards. But overall the gapping is fine. You might wanna try the same tipping for all shafts - so unlike cobra builds them. I bought them this way btw.

I ordered a radspeed 4i and 5i to extend my OL setup into lower lofted (and easier to hit) clubs and have one or two more option from the tee, they are on their way.

Thanks!

 

Nice numbers!

 

Are you typically a low ball hitter? Or generate lots of spin?

 

I'm asking cause

Your gap (carry) between 6 and 5 iron is quite small. I haven't hit the 6 iron but I'm questioning the decision of going for 3* between 6 and 5 iron and only 2* between 5 and 4. 

The Sterling's have 5* gaps and then 4* increments from 8 to 4 iron.  Plus the high COR faces when the shafts play shorter... 

 

Have you tried the Sterling's?

 

[LObin]

36 minutes ago, Navistar said:

You have no issues with the lie angles at all? Never notice the toe digging in or anything? Because it makes no sense to change the lie when shafts are exact same length. Of course they rebut with people swing faster with each iron but that's ridiculous and defeats the point. 

 

Wish I could demo the full set of cobra tec ones to debunk my theory but that won't happen. 

I believe Ghostwedge plays the original King forged one. All irons have a constant 62.5* lie angle. 

 

The progressive lie angle started with the Forged tec black which I'm interested in. Sadly 😉

[Andygolderson]

I enjoyed playing One Length, however, the range of available clubs are limited, since each head needs to be counterweighted to the shorter shaft, therefore, cannot simply shorten the shafts.

[Ghostwedge]

2 hours ago, Navistar said:

You have no issues with the lie angles at all? Never notice the toe digging in or anything? Because it makes no sense to change the lie when shafts are exact same length. Of course they rebut with people swing faster with each iron but that's ridiculous and defeats the point. 

 

Wish I could demo the full set of cobra tec ones to debunk my theory but that won't happen. 

No issues... I bought a set of cheap Orlimar OL last fall, took em to the range hit a few buckets and then played a few rds with them,  adapted to the ONE swing plane theory easily. Got the Cobra OL this spring and super happy with them.

Look on their website, its the current model. 

[Rich Douglas]

8 hours ago, LObin said:

For those who play or have played the Sterling's, top lines and soles are definitely thinner. Do they play and feel more like a player iron?

I played Sterling for four years (before upgrading to the Wishon EQ1-NX). 

 

Your question asks for a relative question. Compared to what?

 

IMO, Sterling plays and feels like a club in between a player's club and a GI club.

[Rich Douglas]

6 hours ago, Navistar said:

I love the concept of ol irons but the selection is pathetic.

I'm not sure how you can conclude that. How many different sets of irons do you need to game simultaneously?

 

Both the Wishon and Edel selections are terrific.

[Rich Douglas]

The complaint about a lack of a player's iron single-length set is technically true, but really not germane. 

 

In order for single-length clubs to work they need to maintain gaps. This gets progressively more difficult as the lofts drop. A club's carry distance is made up of about 85% loft and 15% shaft length. This is where SL clubs can (potentially) fail as lofts get lower. To compensate, manufacturers who are paying attention use materials that allow them to add distance-boosting features like moving the center of gravity and using designs with higher COR. But these features are, IMO, inconsistent with what golfers seek when gaming players clubs. Those players tend to sacrifice distance for feel. (They sometimes think they're getting more "workability," but that's unscientific nonsense.)

 

Then there is the marketplace. The demand for players clubs is much lower than for GI and SGI clubs. Also, so many golfers lean towards off-the-rack designs. This further bifurcates the market. Cobra, who specializes in selling junk off-the-rack that goes without professional fitting, can afford to have a small line of players clubs, but players aren't going to be interest in junk. The smaller manufacturers simply cannot afford to tool up and sell players clubs to such a small market. They would struggle to hit the break-even point. But they can make quality designs, and a few do. (Well, Edel and Wishon, anyway.)

 

I'd love to see a major OEM that pays attention to quality jump into this market, but it's really small. Plus, it's a chicken-and-egg thing. Cobra tried to leverage BDC's emerging fame and their own brand's power to generate demand. I don't think it's working. And you won't get professionals to switch to SL clubs--why would they? (They hit everything perfectly as it is.) So, there's no way Ping, TM, Callawy, and Titleist are going to jump in without professional golfers under contract to play them. 

 

I predict this will remain a niche market, at best.

[Rich Douglas]

5 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

You can make a one-length set with the new 0311 Gen4s.

 

I really doubt this. There is soooo much weight you'd have to remove from the wedges, a couple of dozen grams or more, to compensate for the longer shafts (and retain some semblance of gross weight, not to mention swing weight). Perhaps there is that much weight available to remove, but what does that do to the performance of the clubhead? 

 

(You'd also have to add a comparable amount of weight to the lower-loft irons, but that engineering is easier.)

[LObin]

12 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

I played Sterling for four years (before upgrading to the Wishon EQ1-NX). 

 

Your question asks for a relative question. Compared to what?

 

IMO, Sterling plays and feels like a club in between a player's club and a GI club.

More of a player iron vs the EQ1's?

 

Are they a smaller blade? Softer feel (even the high COR)? More "workable" (on partial shots and control of ball flight)?

 

I remember reading that you threw your Sterling's in a landfill. If you ever dig them out, send me a PM!😉

Edited August 5, 2021 by LObin
Added information

[Deepy]

6 hours ago, LObin said:

Thanks!

 

Nice numbers!

 

Are you typically a low ball hitter? Or generate lots of spin?

 

I'm asking cause

Your gap (carry) between 6 and 5 iron is quite small. I haven't hit the 6 iron but I'm questioning the decision of going for 3* between 6 and 5 iron and only 2* between 5 and 4. 

The Sterling's have 5* gaps and then 4* increments from 8 to 4 iron.  Plus the high COR faces when the shafts play shorter... 

 

Have you tried the Sterling's?

 

My launch angle with 6i was 12.4deg, with my 5i 11.6 deg in this sample, which is pretty normal I would guess. Attack angle was between 5 and 7 deg which is on the steeper side for a 7i length. Generally I would describe my ball flight as rather high with these clubs. The #1 reason my 5i and 6i gapping are off is some bad hits with my 5i and some exceptionally well shots with my 6i, so statistical variation. the #2 reason is the excessive spin which prevents the long irons from developing distance. On course I use my 6i from 180 and my 5i from 190. If club head speed is not the issue, you can always bent your clubs to create the proper gapping.

 

I havent hit the sterlings but I got a 9i and a 5i wishon EQ1-NX with the same shaft as in my cobras and I made the absolute same experience like you with them ;).

[ShortGolfer]

11 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

In order for single-length clubs to work they need to maintain gaps. This gets progressively more difficult as the lofts drop. A club's carry distance is made up of about 85% loft and 15% shaft length. This is where SL clubs can (potentially) fail as lofts get lower. 

My driver, 3W, and 7W are all cut to the same length.  Equivalent of 45 inches for guy of normal height.  The 7W is stock women's flex club.  I'm petite, so it would be considered to be slightly long.  But why cut it down if I can handle the length?  I need the higher loft as I have a slow swing speed .  After a month of experimentation I decided that it was too hard to go longer than 45 inches equivalent.

Edited August 5, 2021 by ShortGolfer

[betarhoalphadelta]

13 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

And you won't get professionals to switch to SL clubs--why would they? (They hit everything perfectly as it is.) So, there's no way Ping, TM, Callawy, and Titleist are going to jump in without professional golfers under contract to play them. 

 

I predict this will remain a niche market, at best.

 

Where I potentially see the growth is in the younger players. Bryson was a potential example of this because he started with single length in HS, IIRC, or college if not HS. 

 

An established professional golfer has no reason to change--obviously their clubs work fine, or they wouldn't be established professional golfers.

 

But are more players at the HS and college level going to experiment with SL irons to gain an edge? Then in 10 years we see more of the young rookies on the KFT and coming up onto the PGA Tour playing SL? That I could imagine happening.

[Spankapotamus redux]

I have no gap issues with my F9 OL irons. If anything, they are more consistent than with variable length sets. I play all of my hybrids and irons at the stock OL length. I also built my 52 degree wedge (Maltby TSW) to the same length. Works great. Driver is stock G400 Max length. 5W is 40". 

 

Just received the Speedzone OL 5h to incorporate into the bag. Will put it in play this weekend.

[TKS]

5 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Where I potentially see the growth is in the younger players. Bryson was a potential example of this because he started with single length in HS, IIRC, or college if not HS. 

 

An established professional golfer has no reason to change--obviously their clubs work fine, or they wouldn't be established professional golfers.

 

But are more players at the HS and college level going to experiment with SL irons to gain an edge? Then in 10 years we see more of the young rookies on the KFT and coming up onto the PGA Tour playing SL? That I could imagine happening.

You'll see some incremental move to groups of clubs matching - already happening with PW-LW and at the top of the bag of irons with a few guys carrying two 4irons of diff lofts.  

[Rich Douglas]

On 8/4/2021 at 7:08 PM, LObin said:

More of a player iron vs the EQ1's?

 

Are they a smaller blade? Softer feel (even the high COR)? More "workable" (on partial shots and control of ball flight)?

 

I remember reading that you threw your Sterling's in a landfill. If you ever dig them out, send me a PM!😉

I think the EQ1-NX is easier to play, even if the static measurements are comparable to Sterling. It just does a better job with what it has. So, I feel both Sterling and EQ1-NX are between player and GI.

[LObin]

22 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

I think the EQ1-NX is easier to play, even if the static measurements are comparable to Sterling. It just does a better job with what it has. So, I feel both Sterling and EQ1-NX are between player and GI.

 

The EQ1-NX are easy to play indeed. It's such a clever design too. The way Tom Wishon has moved the CG throughout the set is something no other OL design has been able to achieve yet. It's not even close.

 

Sadly, I have to disagree with you. Personally, I can't put the EQ1-NX in a player iron, player distance or in between a player and GI. These are GI all the way imo.

 

The low offset is the only thing that resembles a player iron. 

When looking at this stock image, they look much more like a player profile:

 

In reality, the topline is thicker and the blade size is larger. 

 

 

They probably feel and even look more like the Cobra F one line. They are game improvement irons to me. Although I understand that this is very subjective.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing. At all. These are amazing irons and I'm happy that I purchased a set. Even if, in the end, the heads don't work for me. I'm proud to say that I own (soon owned) a set of Wishon single length. 

 

From the reviews and pictures online, the Sterling's have everything of a player distance iron: narrow soles, sharper leading edge, thin top lines, soft forged like feel in the soft steel irons, moderate offset. But some reviewers put them in the GI categorie and others in the PI category.

 

Anyways, I'm still trying to decide if I wait for a use Sterling set with good specs for me or if I give the Forged black tec one a try (may need to shorten them, address the gap issue in the long iron and tweak the lie angles).

 

Since I have never hit nor seen a Sterling iron in person, I could be all wrong about this.  If people that have owned or demoed both feel that they belong in the same category, I might need to look elsewhere then. 

 

Thanks again for all the help I've received so far!

 

* Can't do PXG for $ mainly and also lack of documented one length conversions out there.

Edited August 7, 2021 by LObin
Mistake

[Rich Douglas]

2 hours ago, LObin said:

 

The EQ1-NX are easy to play indeed. It's such a clever design too. The way Tom Wishon has moved the CG throughout the set is something no other OL design has been able to achieve yet. It's not even close.

 

Sadly, I have to disagree with you. Personally, I can't put the EQ1-NX in a player iron, player distance or in between a player and GI. These are GI all the way imo.

 

The low offset is the only thing that resembles a player iron. 

When looking at this stock image, they look much more like a player profile:

 

In reality, the topline is thicker and the blade size is larger. 

 

 

They probably feel and even look more like the Cobra F one line. They are game improvement irons to me. Although I understand that this is very subjective.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing. At all. These are amazing irons and I'm happy that I purchased a set. Even if, in the end, the heads don't work for me. I'm proud to say that I own (soon owned) a set of Wishon single length. 

 

From the reviews and pictures online, the Sterling's have everything of a player distance iron: narrow soles, sharper leading edge, thin top lines, soft forged like feel in the soft steel irons, moderate offset. But some reviewers put them in the GI categorie and others in the PI category.

 

Anyways, I'm still trying to decide if I wait for a use Sterling set with good specs for me or if I give the Forged black tec one a try (may need to shorten them, address the gap issue in the long iron and tweak the lie angles).

 

Since I have never hit nor seen a Sterling iron in person, I could be all wrong about this.  If people that have owned or demoed both feel that they belong in the same category, I might need to look elsewhere then. 

 

Thanks again for all the help I've received so far!

 

* Can't do PGX for $ mainly and also lack of documented one length conversions out there.

You're not bashing. But the categories are squishy to begin with. The reason why I don't consider these GI is because they don't have oversized heads. But maybe that means they are GI but not Max GI. I don't know because I don't take the categories seriously. I was playing this game long before those came along, back when you played either forged blades or cast (blades or cavity backs) irons. Imagine when the Hogan Edge came along as the first perimeter-weighted forged irons! Those categories weren't in use back then, but in which would such a club fall? 

 

I think it's more valuable to do what you did--get specific about the design. Then let people decide if they're worth exploring.

[LObin]

50 minutes ago, Rich Douglas said:

You're not bashing. But the categories are squishy to begin with. The reason why I don't consider these GI is because they don't have oversized heads. But maybe that means they are GI but not Max GI. I don't know because I don't take the categories seriously. I was playing this game long before those came along, back when you played either forged blades or cast (blades or cavity backs) irons. Imagine when the Hogan Edge came along as the first perimeter-weighted forged irons! Those categories weren't in use back then, but in which would such a club fall? 

 

I think it's more valuable to do what you did--get specific about the design. Then let people decide if they're worth exploring.

My first real set of irons were Hogan's Apex Plus. I remember being paired with a guy that played the Apex Edge with the Hogan graphite shafts. My reaction back then was like:"These are so not worthy of the Hogan's name!".

 

Favorite iron ever is the Cleveland tour action TA3's. Man did I hit them well...

 

But I'm digressing...

 

Cheers!

[Rich Douglas]

On 8/6/2021 at 7:37 PM, LObin said:

"These are so not worthy of the Hogan's name!".

But they were. However, you're referring to a later version. The version I played were from the Ben Hogan Company, where Apex and Edge were separate brands. Apex preceded Edge, and was a forged blade. Edge was the first forged perimeter-weighted iron.

 

Eventually, Hogan went out of business. Spalding bought the brand. I don't know if the Apex Edge was introduced before or after that acquisition. I never played it, so I can't comment on it. But the original Edge was great. A bit more forgiving than a blade, and so much softer than the cast clubs back then. Modern clubmaking has blown all that away, of course.

 

Callaway bought Spalding and now owns the Apex brand. I doubt we'll see the Edge again, however; it didn't have the brand cachet Apex enjoyed.

On 8/6/2021 at 7:37 PM, LObin said:

Favorite iron ever is the Cleveland tour action TA3's. Man did I hit them well...

 

 

 Why do we go away from what works? The only significant changes I've made in the 15-or-so iron sets I've owned are my first set of "real" irons" (those Hogan Edges, c. 1990) and when I switched to single-length 5 years ago (originally Wishon Sterling, now the EQ1-NX). Everything else in between was a blur. 

 

For example, I really hit the Cleveland VAS 792s well, but I somehow got it into my head that the TM Burner Bubble irons would be better. Until I realized I was 2-degrees upright and got my first set of Pings with a green dot, I wandered the forest looking for a club I could play as well as those ugly Clevelands. I finally settled on Ping G before moving to SL clubs. I'll never go back. And I doubt any other OEMs will come out with a version. In fact, Bryson may have trouble finding another club contract if he ever wants to leave Cleveland.

[LObin]

13 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

 

 

Quote

 Why do we go away from what works?

 

Indeed. That's the one piece of equipment I regret selling. Alhough, I doubt I would play them as well as I use to. I don't play nearly as much and barely practice anymore.

 

It's one of the reason why switching to single lengths makes a lot of sense in my case. It's hard to pure a VL 4 or 5 iron when you don't practice and hit 1, maybe 2 in a round.

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by LObin
Precision