One length irons WOW!!!

[betarhoalphadelta]

BTW I checked it after that post but forgot to update. 

 

My 7i weighed in at exactly 1 pound - 454g. Which makes sense with 275g head, 66g grip, and 115g shaft which should be 456g. A google search suggests average 7i are closer to ~420g, so my static weight is above average. 

 

I used the static weight / balance point method on an online swing weight calculator, and I think it gave me a swing weight of D4.5 if I remember correctly. That was a little lower than I expected, but it definitely is still higher than the >D0-D2 range expected for OTR irons. 

 

I didn't measure the wedges. They're 0.75" shorter, but roughly 20-25g heavier heads, so they should end up being higher SW. Oddly they don't feel all that heavy to swing. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by betarhoalphadelta
added clarifying info

[ldh692002]

Got my set together and I’m quite impressed. First time in a long time I’ve hit each and every club so clean and consistent. Definitely ready for this season to get started.

[Stanks]

I've been playing pretty well with my Forged Tour One Lengths. Patiently awaiting the replacements for them but am going to do my best to get fitted so I can get these horrible FLT shafts out of them. Can't stand them. 

[solarbear88]

Have a set of Wishing Sterling's.  They are ok.  Been thinking of returning to variable length.

[OsnolaKinnard]

I have put my Edel's back in the bag...long story short, 3 cancer surgeries in 2 years, started dialysis 2 years ago, lost a lot of strength and swing speed, happy to just be playing, put some R Flex blades in the bag...started exercising, regained enough strength to hit the Edel irons (stiff shafts), am very happy again.

 

I have a very simple swing thought before I hit the ball:  "everything is a pitching wedge" and I make a nice smooth swing and absolutely CRUSH my 5 and 6 iron.  I am getting more elevation than I have had before and am loving them even more.  I now have like 3 or 4  years on these clubs, and am starting to see wear marks on the GW and PW and 9 iron...I still get more than enough spin to hold greens, so all is good.  I look at the honest wear as a badge of honor.

 

I am going to Edel's HQ later in Feb (previous trip had to be rescheduled), and getting fit for the SMS wedges.  I am going to see if I can get them to let me take a peak at the SMS iron prototypes...if the SMS tech works the way it is promised to...the SMS irons may be the first irons that could give my SL irons a run for their money....bit they are going to have to be really good to do that.  I mean...REALLY good.

[Wardell Stone]

I will chime in on this subject. Knowledge and feedback on single length irons is tough to come by in my experience. I played a set of equs irons for 2 seasons. They are variable 4-6 38.5 7-9 37 inches and PW-LW 35.5. I played this set with steel fiber I-80 R flex. I swing my driver around 95 on a bad day with my back and 101 or so on a good day. I liked the equs but I eventually took the 4-6 irons out of the bag and added extensions to the wedges and played a single length set. Played at around a 1 handicap with those iron play good not great. Recently picked up a set of edel sls-01. They were 3-GW with A Flex Paderson shafts. I talked to an edel fitter and without him saying so he really implied that the A Flex is plenty stiff enough for most golfers. After hitting around 800 balls as I work through yardage gapping I can’t stress enough that anyone who has struggled with these clubs likely has too stiff of a shaft. The A flex shaft plays stiffer than the r flex Aerotech product. Also the stock lie is 62 and combined with the lack of offset you have to really work hard to turn these over too much. The heads are not big so if your strikes are all over the place this is not gonna be your choice in irons. Lastly unless you can swing your 7 iron 80mph or better or hit significantly up on your irons I would not recommend anything lower than a 6 or maybe a 5 iron. But for someone with speed those shorter long are likely to be money. Hope that helps someone at some point

[ssp4pw]

Over the past couple months, I'd read through this and this - some great info here! I'm looking for any advice on adjusting my pre-owned clubs.

 

I began playing last year and wanted to start with single length clubs as the concept made a lot sense, especially as a novice. I bought all my clubs second-hand off eBay. I used David Lake's website to target certain club lengths based on my ~33" wrist-to-floor measurement. Here's my current setup:

• SW: Cobra F8, 36.5" shaft, 61.5° lie angle
• GW-5i: Cobra F7, 36.5", 62.5°
• 4h: Cobra F8, 37.25", 62.5°
• 3h: Cobra F9 Speedback, 37.5“, 62.5°
• Driver, 3W, 7W: 1 Iron Golf with steel shafts

The most glaring area to upgrade is driver/woods - they're easily the oldest clubs in my set (probably from ~2007) and the steel shafts are for sure slowing down my swing speed. I generally don't feel super comfortable with longer clubs yet anyway, so I'm just going to wait until I'm much better to get fit and am perusing the secondhand markets I'll love to eventually get the the EQ1-NX woods.

For adjusting the irons/hybrids:

1. SW shouldn't have any issue bending to 1° to match the remaining lie angles, right? I didn't realize it was an F8 club when I ordered the iron set.
2. Should I shorten the shafts in my hybrids to 36.5"? I realize I won't truly know my ideal shaft length / lie angles / swing weight until a proper fitting, but I'm wary of doing this my swing is improving every month, so I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and minimize all variables right now.
3. Tom Wishon recommends a set-up of 3W, 5W, 4h, 5i if driver speed >95 mph and 8i >75 mph. I'm minimally above these thresholds (though improving like I said). Would I be better served with a 5h instead of the 3h until my swing speed gets higher?

Thanks!

[boggyman]

I’ve got a set of Rad Speeds 4-SW plus a SB 56 bent to 58* all playing at 36.5” shafted with Recoil 95s. I missed out on most of last season with Achilles issues.  I’ve played several models of OL but always stray away. I’d like to commit to a season of them solely and see what happens. I’ve got a set of Staff blades being built but have been chipping in the yard last few days with the OL. Been down with a bout of sickness last week or so! Hope to get out next week. Temps being projected in the 70s a few days but currently an inch of snow and still snowing at the moment. Was in 60s earlier today!🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[bullie76]

I tried SL for bit. Cobra's F9. I liked them for the most part but needed a different shaft. I eventually got fit for a set of variable lengths adding 1/2 inch to each iron. That seemed to work better for me.

[extrastiff]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:17 PM, ssp4pw said:

Over the past couple months, I'd read through this and this - some great info here! I'm looking for any advice on adjusting my pre-owned clubs.

 

I began playing last year and wanted to start with single length clubs as the concept made a lot sense, especially as a novice. I bought all my clubs second-hand off eBay. I used David Lake's website to target certain club lengths based on my ~33" wrist-to-floor measurement. Here's my current setup:

• SW: Cobra F8, 36.5" shaft, 61.5° lie angle
• GW-5i: Cobra F7, 36.5", 62.5°
• 4h: Cobra F8, 37.25", 62.5°
• 3h: Cobra F9 Speedback, 37.5“, 62.5°
• Driver, 3W, 7W: 1 Iron Golf with steel shafts

The most glaring area to upgrade is driver/woods - they're easily the oldest clubs in my set (probably from ~2007) and the steel shafts are for sure slowing down my swing speed. I generally don't feel super comfortable with longer clubs yet anyway, so I'm just going to wait until I'm much better to get fit and am perusing the secondhand markets I'll love to eventually get the the EQ1-NX woods.

For adjusting the irons/hybrids:

1. SW shouldn't have any issue bending to 1° to match the remaining lie angles, right? I didn't realize it was an F8 club when I ordered the iron set.
2. Should I shorten the shafts in my hybrids to 36.5"? I realize I won't truly know my ideal shaft length / lie angles / swing weight until a proper fitting, but I'm wary of doing this my swing is improving every month, so I'm wondering if I should just go ahead and minimize all variables right now.
3. Tom Wishon recommends a set-up of 3W, 5W, 4h, 5i if driver speed >95 mph and 8i >75 mph. I'm minimally above these thresholds (though improving like I said). Would I be better served with a 5h instead of the 3h until my swing speed gets higher?

Thanks!

I think your setup sounds fine as-is. If u feel like bending lie of sw you can, but it’s a cast club-so that’s not something a lot of shops will do. I would just forget about it and focus on improving the game. I wouldn’t shorten them either, with such a minor change it would be easier to just add some lead tape and grip down a bit. At your swingspeed u may appreciate the extra length though

[extrastiff]

On 1/23/2022 at 6:34 AM, OsnolaKinnard said:

I have put my Edel's back in the bag...long story short, 3 cancer surgeries in 2 years, started dialysis 2 years ago, lost a lot of strength and swing speed, happy to just be playing, put some R Flex blades in the bag...started exercising, regained enough strength to hit the Edel irons (stiff shafts), am very happy again.

 

I have a very simple swing thought before I hit the ball:  "everything is a pitching wedge" and I make a nice smooth swing and absolutely CRUSH my 5 and 6 iron.  I am getting more elevation than I have had before and am loving them even more.  I now have like 3 or 4  years on these clubs, and am starting to see wear marks on the GW and PW and 9 iron...I still get more than enough spin to hold greens, so all is good.  I look at the honest wear as a badge of honor.

 

I am going to Edel's HQ later in Feb (previous trip had to be rescheduled), and getting fit for the SMS wedges.  I am going to see if I can get them to let me take a peak at the SMS iron prototypes...if the SMS tech works the way it is promised to...the SMS irons may be the first irons that could give my SL irons a run for their money....bit they are going to have to be really good to do that.  I mean...REALLY good.

Keep up the good fight brother

[FirePro]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:18 AM, Wooderson said:

Why would I ever care what Brandon thinks?

 

With that said, I think SL is flawed because of the long wedges but will be giving the Wishon 3/8 length increment a shot to hopefully enhance consistency with the longer clubs. 

I feel the same way and is why I went with Forged Tec One Length in the 4-6 and King Tour MIM's in the 7-PW

[Tiptx1122]

I just think it's more of a gimmick than anything, seems weird that only Bryson is playing one length irons Lol to include his putter. Is there any one else on tour besides him? 

[Rutgersgolf]

Has anyone played Cobra Ones, any model, that worked well with a 110-ish gram, stiff, graphite shaft? And bendable up 1.5°

Edited April 29, 2022 by Rutgersgolf

[himebaum]

I have been fitted with Wishon EQ1-NX irons about seven months ago, a hybrid and a fairway wood.  I believe that the fitter did a good job of fitting me with the right shafts.  He even added counterweights to maximize my swing effectiveness.  This guy is good as Tom Wishon told me to get this guy to do my fitting!

 

I was so psyched to finally get custom fit clubs that would help me improve my consistency.  Well, the results are not very encouraging.  First, I have lost length on every club.  (I have not really tested the wedges, but it is true for the irons, the hybrid and the fairway driver.)

 

The clubs feel good to me and I seem to be hitting them the same as my variable length clubs but the distance is not there.  My seven iron is 17 yards shorter on average with Trackman giving me the results.

 

Secondly, I have not improved my  dispersion left or right.  I hit my new EQ1-NX as much off of center (both left and right) as I did with my old variable length clubs.  So frustrating and disappointing from what I had expected.

 

I don't know what the answer is.  I guess that I just needed to vent...............

[Feelingofgreatness]

7 hours ago, himebaum said:

I have been fitted with Wishon EQ1-NX irons about seven months ago, a hybrid and a fairway wood.  I believe that the fitter did a good job of fitting me with the right shafts.  He even added counterweights to maximize my swing effectiveness.  This guy is good as Tom Wishon told me to get this guy to do my fitting!

 

I was so psyched to finally get custom fit clubs that would help me improve my consistency.  Well, the results are not very encouraging.  First, I have lost length on every club.  (I have not really tested the wedges, but it is true for the irons, the hybrid and the fairway driver.)

 

The clubs feel good to me and I seem to be hitting them the same as my variable length clubs but the distance is not there.  My seven iron is 17 yards shorter on average with Trackman giving me the results.

 

Secondly, I have not improved my  dispersion left or right.  I hit my new EQ1-NX as much off of center (both left and right) as I did with my old variable length clubs.  So frustrating and disappointing from what I had expected.

 

I don't know what the answer is.  I guess that I just needed to vent...............

The truth is... SL irons don't make the game easier.

1) Long irons fly lower and shorter.

2) Partial wedge shots are way more difficult because the wedges are 1 to 1.5" longer

3) Full wedge shots are more difficult because they fly even higher, what most good players try hard to avoid.

4) The golf course is crocked, there is wind, up hill, down hill, side hill lies. If you think you can play the ball in the same position for every shot you are fouling yourself bad.  It might work in a simulator, it doesn't work in real life. You need to be able to move ball position around to control trajectory, you need to grip down on the club sometimes.  The reality is, you can play any club from the same club position, one length or not, if you choose. Ala Manuel de la Torre.

 

I've played with many SL players over the last 3 years, not one of them broke 90 and most didn't even break 100.

 

If you are a rec golfer and want to make the game easier/more fun... try something like Cleveland launcher irons, those are as close to "Cheat Code" irons as you can get.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Feelingofgreatness

[himebaum]

Feeling of Greatness,

 

I was really sold on the logic of one length, one swing.  And I still believe that it should help with consistency. For the life of me I can't understand why this custom set has not reduced my left/right dispersion. 

 

If I am swinging the same and I have more control as the clubs are shorter (except wedges) why wouldn't my shots be tighter down the middle.  I understand that hitting on the toe or heel will send balls off center, but these EX1-NX are positioned as really forgiving.  Certainly not what I am currently experiencing.

 

I could accept that I lose some distance with shorter clubs.  (Now, losing 17 yards with custom built clubs is too much for my 7i) But this left and right has me baffled.

[shokosugi]

FWIW, it took me a few rounds to adjust to my wishon sterlings and it's been great ever since.  With respect to your dispersion and loss of distance, have you hit these irons side by side with your old set or are you just comparing from previous rounds/range sessions? 

 

I haven't tried the eq1s yet and am planning to upgrade soon ( just trying to find a good deal) but I doubt the problem is the head forgiveness itself. Are you using the same or a similar shaft in the eq1s as your regular irons? I can only imagine how discouraged you are at the moment but like I said for me it took a few rounds to get used to looking down at a giant head as well as trusting the long irons needing the same swing as a short iron.  In terms of distance loss it is surprising your 7 iron is losing that much distance as it should only be half an inch shorter than your regular 7iron- is there a loft difference of the 7 iron in your 2 sets?

[Feelingofgreatness]

46 minutes ago, himebaum said:

Feeling of Greatness,

 

I was really sold on the logic of one length, one swing.  And I still believe that it should help with consistency. For the life of me I can't understand why this custom set has not reduced my left/right dispersion. 

 

If I am swinging the same and I have more control as the clubs are shorter (except wedges) why wouldn't my shots be tighter down the middle.  I understand that hitting on the toe or heel will send balls off center, but these EX1-NX are positioned as really forgiving.  Certainly not what I am currently experiencing.

 

I could accept that I lose some distance with shorter clubs.  (Now, losing 17 yards with custom built clubs is too much for my 7i) But this left and right has me baffled.

The answer is simple... 

Let's assume it's built to 36.50", the standard 8i.

Before SL, did you hit every single 8i you hit perfectly straight to a consistent distance? 

My buddy wanted to try SL, so I went to the driving range with him. We grabbed his 8i and I said to him, "hit 10 shots"... You know what's coming... One fat, one thin... One right, one left, one pure down the middle, one decent down the middle. If you can't hit your 8i pure every single strike from a perfect lie on the range, what makes you think SL will make the game easier? 

SL may actually make the game way more difficult! 

[solarbear88]

On 5/1/2022 at 2:27 AM, himebaum said:

The clubs feel good to me and I seem to be hitting them the same as my variable length clubs but the distance is not there. 

 

That is very weird.  My EQ1 are as long as any irons around or as long as any irons I've owned.  I can't begin to guess what is different about yours.

 

SL isn't going to turn a bad player into a good one.  But it seems to make learning to play/swing a little easier as you only have 1 set up position or spine angle.

 

I do find some short shots are harder.  But that seems more due to the higher centre of gravity in the EQ1 as the Sterling didn't have this issue.  It might be worth sporting a 58  wedge.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by solarbear88

[Ghostwedge]

Since the OL detractors hit the posts recently I'll state the obvious once again.

OL \ SL clubs aren't for everybody, especially guys that refuse to think outside the box. To state they don't work is wrong, sure they don't work for guys that are high caps to begin with. If you can't  repeat your swing with decent results you probably need lessons first anyway.

I p!ay OL irons as 3-4 hndcp, the guys I play with didn't even know they were in my bag. ALL my irons shots looked normal to them. They actually looked better to me, coming in a little higher and softer. 

I still play a couple normal length long irons and sand wedge.

 

[FirePro]

reasons for loss of distance could be a few things.  Ball position, SL irons correct me if I am wrong should have the same ball placement in your stance at least that's what works for me.  I can see if launch angle is down that one may cast the club to try and launch the ball higher which can lead to reduced distance as the dynamic loft increases and may slow the swing speed.  If one is casting the club to hit the ball higher they would be relying on timing which could lead to inconsistencies of face angle at impact.

 

isn't golf wonderful   

[Feelingofgreatness]

9 hours ago, Ghostwedge said:

Since the OL detractors hit the posts recently I'll state the obvious once again.

OL \ SL clubs aren't for everybody, especially guys that refuse to think outside the box. To state they don't work is wrong, sure they don't work for guys that are high caps to begin with. If you can't  repeat your swing with decent results you probably need lessons first anyway.

I p!ay OL irons as 3-4 hndcp, the guys I play with didn't even know they were in my bag. ALL my irons shots looked normal to them. They actually looked better to me, coming in a little higher and softer. 

I still play a couple normal length long irons and sand wedge.

 

That isn't single length then. 

If you play standard long irons and a standard wedge, you are basically saying the concept doesn't work! 

 

Yes, i can easily play a 6, 7, 8 and 9i at 36.5", but there probably wouldn't be much benefit to that. 

 

You are a 3 to 4 HC, my guess is you would be a 3 to 4 HC with conventional irons too. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Feelingofgreatness

[solarbear88]

1 hour ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

Yes, i can easily play a 6, 7, 8 and 9i at 36.5", but there probably wouldn't be much benefit to that. 

 

Might find it simpler or more comfortable over the course of a round having one set up, one ball position, one spine angle for all your iron shots. However, if you are happy with your golf game why would you change?

 

I don't really feel that I would score much different with variable.  And I am pretty happy with my gapping.  The EQ1 definitely gives me a more normal ball flight than the Sterlings did -- my short irons had a tendency to balloon  -- so whatever issue people had with previous OL solutions the EQ1 seems to fix.  

 

I definitely feel more comfortable during a game with one set up for all my full iron shots.  4 hybrid, 5-sw SL, and sometimes I will take a  normal 58* as I like it best out of a bunker (the heel and bounce seem to be more suited to the task than the EQ1).  But it is not going to make me a better golfer.  It just allows me to enjoy a round more as I used to worry a lot about set up.

[Ghostwedge]

3 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

That isn't single length then. 

If you play standard long irons and a standard wedge, you are basically saying the concept doesn't work! 

 

Yes, i can easily play a 6, 7, 8 and 9i at 36.5", but there probably wouldn't be much benefit to that. 

 

You are a 3 to 4 HC, my guess is you would be a 3 to 4 HC with conventional irons too. 

You're right and wrong....

Was  3-4 cap before switching to SL irons but unlike most guys who try them I had zero trouble adapting to the longer mid and short irons. 

I prefer a higher ball for with the standard 4 + 5 irons and the SW is non- negotiable. 

[Deepy]

On 4/29/2022 at 10:18 PM, Rutgersgolf said:

Has anyone played Cobra Ones, any model, that worked well with a 110-ish gram, stiff, graphite shaft? And bendable up 1.5°

I play Cobra OL forged tec black, and I tried shafts from as low as 80g graphite up to 120g steel. Currently playing KBS $-taper, but might go a little lighter in the future. All my irons are around 68* lie, so yes, they are easily bendable. In contrast the Radspeed OL are a pain to bend!

[Feelingofgreatness]

7 hours ago, Ghostwedge said:

You're right and wrong....

Was  3-4 cap before switching to SL irons but unlike most guys who try them I had zero trouble adapting to the longer mid and short irons. 

I prefer a higher ball for with the standard 4 + 5 irons and the SW is non- negotiable. 

I'm happy your setup works for you but you confirm my point perfectly. 

 

Your Handicap hasn't improved and you are only able to make it work for you by effectively NOT playing a SL set of irons. If you had to play 4i to SW in SL, you wouldn't. 

[RSLP]

Recap of my OL/SL test:

I decided to try OL/SL so that I could simplify my practice/playing.  My grip/stance is neutral.  I use Dr. Kwon's drills and use Padraig's youtube channel for lessons.   Before dumping money into Cobra/Edel, I thought I should test a less expensive option.  I fitted myself into a set of Valuegolf/Pinhawk SL 4I-LW.  I built them on a (cheap) 110g shaft, at 37 inch/7I length. Mine are 2 degrees flat, and gripped with +1/16 no taper.  OL/SL is basically both a matched MOI/swing weight set of clubs, and I enjoy having a single swing for 10 clubs.   My iron play is a strong part of my game, and I love hitting the OL/SL 4I (20 degree) off the deck. I could not play the 19 degree Ping I210 from my previous set. I gained yardage in my overall bag (I keep my stats) , and it is from my 7I-4I overall consistency.  I have seen an increase in club head speed. I am playing to an 8 , was a 10 before these clubs.    I had no learning curve with OL/SL.  I did not suffer from the extreme high short irons, and extreme low flight long irons often reported.   I find the sand wedge easier out of sand, and this particular OL/SL LW allows me to make a full swing with it.  I may experiment with OL/SL woods (3W/5W/7W all built to 5W length) this summer.  Would be nice to only have 4 "full" swings: driver , woods , irons, putter!   

[betarhoalphadelta]

On 5/1/2022 at 11:46 AM, himebaum said:

Feeling of Greatness,

 

I was really sold on the logic of one length, one swing.  And I still believe that it should help with consistency. For the life of me I can't understand why this custom set has not reduced my left/right dispersion. 

 

If I am swinging the same and I have more control as the clubs are shorter (except wedges) why wouldn't my shots be tighter down the middle.  I understand that hitting on the toe or heel will send balls off center, but these EX1-NX are positioned as really forgiving.  Certainly not what I am currently experiencing.

 

I could accept that I lose some distance with shorter clubs.  (Now, losing 17 yards with custom built clubs is too much for my 7i) But this left and right has me baffled.

 

What were your previous clubs? Length (i.e. standard or extended), head, and shaft? I agree that you shouldn't lose 17 yards with a single length 7i. If you're losing length with ALL your clubs, I wonder if you were using a very strongly lofted model and that's where the distance went? Either that or you had a REALLY bad fitting and your shaft choice is COMPLETELY wrong for you? 

 

I don't see any reason your left/right dispersion would change, though. You can still put a bad swing on a single length club. Left/right dispersion on lower-lofted irons is similar to driver in that the lower loft means more ball speed and less spin, so you're just as likely to hook/slice a single length 5i as a variable length 5i. Controlling face angle and path has VERY little to do with club length. 

 

The area that I'd expect to see the most improvements with single length would be:

 

• Consistency of low point. Fewer tops or chunks, because every setup is the same distance from the ball, same plane of swing, same ball position, etc. Note I don't say eliminate tops or chunks, because heck, as a 22 cap no club is going to eliminate my bad habits. And you won't always have flat lies on the course so you may have to adjust from there. But having the same address, ball position, etc makes it easier. 
• Consistency of heel/toe contact. Again, not eliminating you missing the center of the face, because golf is hard. But having the same address, same swing plane, same ball position should remove some of the variables and help. 

 

Where I don't expect single length to help much, if at all, is face angle and swing path. Face angle and swing path are much more of an issue for left/right dispersion than toe/heel strikes (which IMHO are more limiting to ball speed and distance than screwing up direction). 

 

The other issue that some people see is that players naturally can't get over the mental hurdle of swinging all the clubs the same. I have this issue a little bit with the 4h and 5i, because I start swinging those "for distance", especially off the tee or on a long par 5 where I can't reach. It's why Cobra went to different lie angles for their newer SL models, because they claim they've determined players were swinging the lower-lofted irons "harder" than the higher-lofted irons, which will impact toe droop. I have no issues swinging from my 7i to my GW the same effort, but sometimes get a little aggressive with those 4h/5i/6i shots that I'm trying to stop doing. 

 

 

[Ghostwedge]

2 hours ago, Feelingofgreatness said:

I'm happy your setup works for you but you confirm my point perfectly. 

 

Your Handicap hasn't improved and you are only able to make it work for you by effectively NOT playing a SL set of irons. If you had to play 4i to SW in SL, you wouldn't. 

You are smarter than the average bear,  maybe, my handicap hasn't improved in years because I don't stand on a practice putting green for an hour at a time.

You can have the last word pro......