One length irons WOW!!!

[OsnolaKinnard]

On 3/17/2021 at 8:51 AM, bwgerho said:

A setup to consider  

Single length 4 through 7, then normal stepped length 8 through wedges.   

An often missed characteristic of single length long irons is THE HEAD FOR 4-6 IRONS IS 7 IRON WEIGHT.    We can bypass the lecture from engineering mechanics class (I attended class and the information sunk in ); the heavier head exactly compensates for a shorter shaft.   Gapping is NOT a mechanics problem; just an issue in your head.  

Many players hit the short irons ( 8 - wedges ) just fine so keep these skills while using single length to simplify long irons.   My set is normal stepped icons for wedges, 9 and 8.    Single length for 7 through 3 iron.   Try it - you may like this setup too.  

Two length doesn't solve anything - just adds another length question.   

I went the other direction.  I have Edel 5-GW and REALLY hit the 7-GW like a champ.  the 5 and 6 iron are good, bu just not as good as the others.  I have Tour Edge Exotics CBX Ironwoods in 3 and 4 iron.  The CBX's are normal VL 'irons'.  I have great confidence in the CBX utilities.  Super easy to hit off the tee or fairway and hitting a dandy little stinger off the tee is fun and gets the jobs done.

 

Keep in mind I am also tall and have never felt comfortable with anything from an 8 iron or less in my hands.  Always felt way hunched over, bad posture, and inconsistent direction/ball striking.

 

If I were going to fit a person that is taller than 6', I would absolutely look at SL irons in the 6-GW range and fit them with either utility irons in the 3-5 or hybrids at a VL set up.

[boggyman]

On 3/16/2021 at 1:08 PM, Pepperturbo said:

You're welcome to disagree, it's NOT going to influence my perception.  Swinging a shorter 4i is NO big deal, its more about ones ability to adapt to conditions.  Like adjusting from 47" driver to 43". 

 

I have driven my car on an oval track at 175-185 mph so have a good idea what the G forces feel like at 200mph.  Now, if I had only driven 110mph there's a huge difference between that speed and the g-forces and reaction time at 200mph. 

I adjusted quite well to a 43. 75 driver and like it quite well. It works for “me”! 

Edited April 7, 2021 by boggyman

[boggyman]

Mine should be arriving any day now. I’ve had previously 3 sets but this time I’ll stick them out. I like the fact that when you’re practicing or playing it’s a no brainer that it’s one setup through the bag. Mine are coming with Recoil 95s built at 36 1/2. It’s a length through trials that I preferred. Now to get the clubs AND released from the foot doc with my Achilles issues. I’m ready for some golf. Hit ‘em well players!!!

[JDCON]

I played them a couple years ago. Unfortunately, I also decided to put JumboMax grips on them which gave me such bad tendonitis, I had to stop playing for a month and didn't fully recover for another six. I'd like to try single length again someday once I find some nice forged single lengths in a more traditional loft.

[betarhoalphadelta]

23 hours ago, OsnolaKinnard said:

I went the other direction.  I have Edel 5-GW and REALLY hit the 7-GW like a champ.  the 5 and 6 iron are good, bu just not as good as the others.  I have Tour Edge Exotics CBX Ironwoods in 3 and 4 iron.  The CBX's are normal VL 'irons'.  I have great confidence in the CBX utilities.  Super easy to hit off the tee or fairway and hitting a dandy little stinger off the tee is fun and gets the jobs done.

 

Keep in mind I am also tall and have never felt comfortable with anything from an 8 iron or less in my hands.  Always felt way hunched over, bad posture, and inconsistent direction/ball striking.

 

If I were going to fit a person that is taller than 6', I would absolutely look at SL irons in the 6-GW range and fit them with either utility irons in the 3-5 or hybrids at a VL set up.

 

Out of curiosity, why did you choose the 37.5"? Do you think if you had gone longer for your SL selection it would have improved your top of the bag gapping? 

 

I'm 6'5" and currently play +1.5", so it sounds like your 8i would be 37.5" which would correspond to my 9i. For me, I'm competent hitting everything from 5i (39.5") down right now, and I'm very comfortable with my 7i (38.5") length. 

 

From this discussion, a lot of SL sets are built around a 6i or 7i length, so I'm wondering what particularly drew you to 8i? Was it just that--per your statement--you felt that was the shortest club you were comfortable with and so that's what you built around? 

 

If so, is it a fair statement that this contributes to the challenges of gapping at the top of the bag that might not exist if you'd picked your 6i or 7i length? 

[TKS]

I play mine to 37.5. But that is my 8 iron length I've played for years. 

The downside to most SL is the length. They work best at the golfers fitted 8iron specs.

Time and again as a fitter, I've solved this issue with SL players.

[OsnolaKinnard]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Out of curiosity, why did you choose the 37.5"? Do you think if you had gone longer for your SL selection it would have improved your top of the bag gapping? 

 

I'm 6'5" and currently play +1.5", so it sounds like your 8i would be 37.5" which would correspond to my 9i. For me, I'm competent hitting everything from 5i (39.5") down right now, and I'm very comfortable with my 7i (38.5") length. 

 

From this discussion, a lot of SL sets are built around a 6i or 7i length, so I'm wondering what particularly drew you to 8i? Was it just that--per your statement--you felt that was the shortest club you were comfortable with and so that's what you built around? 

 

If so, is it a fair statement that this contributes to the challenges of gapping at the top of the bag that might not exist if you'd picked your 6i or 7i length? 

I went solely based on results of my fitting.  I hit clubs at 38” all the way down to 35.5” with all manner of shafts, lies, head weights, etc. and my best results came at 37.5 with a 2* upright lie angle, 274 gram head, and Padersen 95 gram graphite shafts with LOng iron profile in the 5-7 irons and mid iron in the 8-GW.

 

I got the ball flight, dispersion, spin, and descent angle I wanted.

[Rich Douglas]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:02 AM, J_Tizzle said:

I still think they work so well for Bryson because of his one-plane swing, its made to just drop the club in the same spot every time, so having all the irons the same length plays to the advantage of that swing style, making them work for a more "normal" swing will take a lot of practice, dedication, and bad rounds to make it work.  If you are a weaker golfer (couple times a year, 100s shooter) I could see some benefit, or if you're just learning the game and wanted something easier (perfecting a 8i swing vs ones for all clubs) I could see some merit to it as well.

Seriously, they have nothing to do with swing plane. This stems from a misunderstanding of the concept of "one-plane."

 

One-plane doesn't mean the same one plane with every club. Instead, it means you take the club back and return it to the ball--backswing and downswing--on the same plane. But because the clubs vary throughout the set, you have a different "one-plane" for each club.

 

"Two-plane" swing means the club goes back on one plane but returns to the ball on another. Again, these two planes vary throughout the set because of the variable lengths of each club. 

 

Single-length clubs do not change you from a one-plane swing from a two-plane swing. If you're a two-plane swinger with traditional clubs, you'll be one with single-length clubs, too. And if you're a one-plane swinger with single-length clubs, you'll be one with variable-length clubs, too.

 

In short, if you use two planes you still will. If you use one plane, you still will. What changes is that you don't have increasingly flat or steep swings as you move through the iron set, since each club is at the same length. But the swing plane(s) remain unaffected. You swing on one or two as always.

 

As for how hard it is to make them work, nothing could be further from the truth. My set is built at 36.5"--an 8-iron length. So, every iron in the set swings like my 8-iron. If you handed me a traditional 8-iron and my own 8-iron, there would be no difference--except in whatever differences there are in the design of the two models. But they'd both swing like an 8-iron. Can you swing your 8-iron? Then you can swing all the clubs in a single-length set. No changes. Simple.

[Rich Douglas]

On 4/7/2021 at 11:42 AM, JDCON said:

I played them a couple years ago. Unfortunately, I also decided to put JumboMax grips on them which gave me such bad tendonitis, I had to stop playing for a month and didn't fully recover for another six. I'd like to try single length again someday once I find some nice forged single lengths in a more traditional loft.

Just so we're clear, the grips had nothing to do with the single-length concept. One can use any grips on single-length clubs.

[JDCON]

Just now, Rich Douglas said:

Just so we're clear, the grips had nothing to do with the single-length concept. One can use any grips on single-length clubs.

Correct. The grips were the cause, the irons were not. I enjoyed the irons quite a bit.

[Rich Douglas]

2 minutes ago, JDCON said:

Correct. The grips were the cause, the irons were not. I enjoyed the irons quite a bit.

I'm sorry to hear the grips troubled you. I thought they relieved pain, not caused it!  🤪

[JDCON]

1 minute ago, Rich Douglas said:

I'm sorry to hear the grips troubled you. I thought they relieved pain, not caused it!  🤪

I’d make a comment about how my forearm muscles must be used to gripping a much thinner circumference than the JumboMax grips, but my pride would be too hurt.

[phizzy30]

On 3/13/2021 at 10:09 AM, wings02 said:

I went to a Cobra Golf Demo/fitting day Friday to satisfy my curiosity about the one length irons. They had a set made up with their King forged Tec One head. They had a KBS lite steel shaft, regular flex. As most of you know, the length is based on a seven iron. Obviously you will notice  the biggest difference  in the the PW and longer irons. There is a strange sort of confidence in both the short irons and longer irons in the following sense; although the shaft length of the pitching wedge seems long, you have the confidence that you can easily hit the yardage that you need without swinging too hard. On the other hand when you put a four or a five iron in your hands, it seems like a very easy club to hit. This was definitely the case for me. I know personally when I hit a ladies 3,4,5 Iron they seem very easy to hit. This was the same feeling I got when I hit the Cobra one length set. 
Brandon Dechambeau discussed his thoughts of the one length iron set in one of the current golf magazines. He felt that all golfers should be using that set up. Besides him being a student of the game, he really understands the physics and logic of both the physical swing and equipment used. The cynical side of me could come to the conclusion that he is saying that to boost sales of Cobra irons. I really don’t think that is the case especially after trying a set on the range. I’m actually surprised that more people, especially amateur golfers are not opting to go with this set up. For those of you that have either  tried or own a set, what are your thoughts.

As a sidenote, I found the King forged tech head was phenomenal. I am used to using graphite for many years and cannot believe the feel I was getting even using the KBS steel shaft. The profile of these heads look as great as they feel. I have hit many sets of the new hollow cavity heads including briefly owning  a set of GEN 3 PXG irons. The performance of the King Cobra heads were the best of the bunch. 

Who's Brandon Dechambeau?  I'm just messin' with you.  My question is, did you find yourself placing the ball more forward with long irons and more towards the back with the short irons?  I can only imagine in my head how this would work.  If any of you guys who play one length irons have any input on my question, feel free to post. 

[Rich Douglas]

5 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

Who's Brandon Dechambeau?  I'm just messin' with you.  My question is, did you find yourself placing the ball more forward with long irons and more towards the back with the short irons?  I can only imagine in my head how this would work.  If any of you guys who play one length irons have any input on my question, feel free to post. 

Same ball placement throughout the set. Some advocate for moving it a bit forward for the low-lofted irons, but I don't. The need to move the ball forward or back in the stance is a function of club length, not loft. Thus, it is negated in single-length sets. 

 

Something to watch for: Ensuring you still move it when using clubs outside your single-length set. I sometimes play the driver a little too much towards the center of my stance because of this. And, of course, you can move it back and forth in order to facilitate a certain desired ball flight on a certain shot.

[kleydejong]

On 4/7/2021 at 9:40 AM, Rich Douglas said:

 

Sure there are. But you can't take a variable length set and DIY into an SL set. 

 

Variable length sets have variable weights in the heads. This is to accommodate the variable length shafts. Thus, a 3-iron head is a lot lighter than is a GW head. When you put in SL shafts, say, at an 8-iron length, you have to remove weight from the 9-GW heads and add weight to the other irons above the 8-iron. If you don't, your swing weights will be off. Adding weight to the low-lofted irons can change their playing characteristics, even if you get it right. How it will change depends on how you add the weight--liquid metal, lead tape, etc.--and where you add it. 

 

In the higher-lofted irons and wedges, you'll need to remove progressively more weight for each club. Same issues here, except its a lot harder to remove sufficient weight to make up for the now-heavier and longer shafts. 

 

The Tommy Armour EQL failed--on a manufacturing level--to get this right in the early 1990s. There is no reason to expect a single tinkerer to succeed where they failed. Single length irons didn't begin to work until manufacturers could make heads that (a) all weighed the same and (b) had varying characteristics to make up for the lack of varying shaft lengths. The low-lofted clubs had to have higher CORs while the high-lofted clubs had to have lower CORs. Plus, the CGs for each club head have to vary to help with launch angles. 

 

Then, when you're all done with that, you still need to adjust lie angles; in a traditional set they can range by as much as 6 or 7 degrees. But if your particular setup needs are different from standard--more upright or flatter--you might find yourself trying to bend a club 5 degrees or more. Snap!

 

Between weighting, weight distribution, and lie angles, I just don't see a DIY approach.

 

Yup, I performed all that work on my DIY mizunos!  I achieved uniform weight, lie angle, and shaft.  I didn't have much control over COG and COR.  They weren't super pretty in the end, but it definitely worked to some extent.  The main problem was that at the end of the day I still had a set of 90's blades - which are not super playable for me, even at a proper Single Length spec.  I agree that you need to make accommodations with the COR or CG or shaft or wherever else to get the clubs to fly in the right window.  Overall it was a very fun learning experience and I have gained a lot of knowledge on how a set of irons works together.  I paid $35 for that set of irons, so I don't feel bad making such extreme modifications. 

 

The pinhawks are probably the best option for me right now.  They're affordable, have the right specs, and offer solid playability.  But they're not perfect.  They look pretty bleh to my eye.  The sound and feel is below average.  They have minimal 'tech' to launch the lower lofted clubs higher and the higher lofted clubs lower. 

 

I'd love to see the market expand and mature a little bit more.  I perceive that with each company's successive generation of development there are some pretty significant strides made to 'fix' the issues.  But with Cobra being the only OEM readily available to try out it just makes things feel a little limited. 

[kleydejong]

On 4/7/2021 at 10:18 AM, lefthack said:

 

Ha, I literally just came to this very same conclusion 10 minutes ago. It sounded so good at first "just bend the lies, add/remove a little weight maybe...". 🤣

 

I am glad I did it from the perspective that:

 

1) It gave me a chance to test SL and I learned that I really like it

2) I learned A TON about how all the variables in a golf club work together.

3) I enjoy experiments and tinkering with DIY projects.

 

I have contemplated trying it again.  One issue is that the modifications are extreme.  There is no going back.  Removing 35g from a PW means removing a lot of metal.  2* of lie angle as well means I would need a forged club for my capability.  My method for adding weight was to mix epoxy with powdered lead.  Lead tape required way too many strips.  But this method made it hard to dial in the center of gravity like you need to avoid the issues with ball flight windows. 

 

In the end the main issue wasn't that the SL modifications were too much.  It was that I still was dealing with a 90's blade, and I wouldn't have great success playing those heads as intended in a VL set. 

 

My current candidate is the Maltby STi2 - https://www.golfworks.com/maltby-sti2-irons-heads/p/ma0317/

[lefthack]

31 minutes ago, kleydejong said:

 

I am glad I did it from the perspective that:

 

1) It gave me a chance to test SL and I learned that I really like it

2) I learned A TON about how all the variables in a golf club work together.

3) I enjoy experiments and tinkering with DIY projects.

 

I have contemplated trying it again.  One issue is that the modifications are extreme.  There is no going back.  Removing 35g from a PW means removing a lot of metal.  2* of lie angle as well means I would need a forged club for my capability.  My method for adding weight was to mix epoxy with powdered lead.  Lead tape required way too many strips.  But this method made it hard to dial in the center of gravity like you need to avoid the issues with ball flight windows. 

 

In the end the main issue wasn't that the SL modifications were too much.  It was that I still was dealing with a 90's blade, and I wouldn't have great success playing those heads as intended in a VL set. 

 

My current candidate is the Maltby STi2 - https://www.golfworks.com/maltby-sti2-irons-heads/p/ma0317/

Yeah, I can feel it. I have enjoyed this process of building my current set of irons and that's what made me consider this.

 

I am still interested in trying a SLI setup, but I think to give it a fair shake, I should start with a legit setup. The Sterling SLI set is $800, not cheap, but seem like quality pieces and I could almost justify it. 

[Rich Douglas]

13 hours ago, kleydejong said:

 

Yup, I performed all that work on my DIY mizunos!  I achieved uniform weight, lie angle, and shaft.  I didn't have much control over COG and COR.  They weren't super pretty in the end, but it definitely worked to some extent.  The main problem was that at the end of the day I still had a set of 90's blades - which are not super playable for me, even at a proper Single Length spec.  I agree that you need to make accommodations with the COR or CG or shaft or wherever else to get the clubs to fly in the right window.  Overall it was a very fun learning experience and I have gained a lot of knowledge on how a set of irons works together.  I paid $35 for that set of irons, so I don't feel bad making such extreme modifications. 

 

The pinhawks are probably the best option for me right now.  They're affordable, have the right specs, and offer solid playability.  But they're not perfect.  They look pretty bleh to my eye.  The sound and feel is below average.  They have minimal 'tech' to launch the lower lofted clubs higher and the higher lofted clubs lower. 

 

I'd love to see the market expand and mature a little bit more.  I perceive that with each company's successive generation of development there are some pretty significant strides made to 'fix' the issues.  But with Cobra being the only OEM readily available to try out it just makes things feel a little limited. 

When I said you couldn't do it, I meant you couldn't make a playable set. It's no mystery to drill enough holes to remove enough weight, but that renders those clubs unplayable.

 

You will not be pleased with anything that isn't Cobra, Edel, or Wishon. That's the list. Good luck in your search!

[lefthack]

9 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

 

You will not be pleased with anything that isn't Cobra, Edel, or Wishon. That's the list. Good luck in your search!

Close.

 

https://sterlingirons.com/5-pw-steel-shafts-left-handed/

[Rich Douglas]

52 minutes ago, lefthack said:

Close.

 

https://sterlingirons.com/5-pw-steel-shafts-left-handed/

Sterling IS Wishon.

 

Tom Wishon and Jaacob Bowden went in on the Wishon design together. Tom decided to do the EQ1-NX on his own, and left the rights--but not the tooling--for the Sterling to Jaacob. Sterling will die off. But the clubs are great and they say "Wishon" on them. I played them for 4 years before moving to the EQ1-NX.

[lefthack]

8 minutes ago, Rich Douglas said:

Sterling IS Wishon.

 

Tom Wishon and Jaacob Bowden went in on the Wishon design together. Tom decided to do the EQ1-NX on his own, and left the rights--but not the tooling--for the Sterling to Jaacob. Sterling will die off. But the clubs are great and they say "Wishon" on them. I played them for 4 years before moving to the EQ1-NX.

 

Yeah, I think I have ruled out SLI. While I understand the concept and think it would work well for some folks, my game is too different to change up for single length.

 

If I had a single swing, sure. But after my swing analysis it's clear I don't. As cool as I think it is, I am pretty sure at this point it would be an epic fail.

[TKS]

11 hours ago, lefthack said:

 

Yeah, I think I have ruled out SLI. While I understand the concept and think it would work well for some folks, my game is too different to change up for single length.

 

If I had a single swing, sure. But after my swing analysis it's clear I don't. As cool as I think it is, I am pretty sure at this point it would be an epic fail.

Everytime you hit your 8 iron is an epic fail ?😉

[lefthack]

48 minutes ago, TKS said:

Everytime you hit your 8 iron is an epic fail ?😉

 

No, but I don't have the same swing for all my irons. Like I said, I think it could work for some folks and I'm really interested in trying them, but am not interested enough to spend $800 to find out.

 

There are at least 3 other iron sets I want to try more that cost less. But I might get there some day.

[kenstl]

I am on my 3rd set of SL irons.  I played the Sterling (Wishon) irons for 3 years, switched to the EQ irons for a season (didn't like the shaft I put in them), and recently sweitched to Cobra forged tech black irons and I have been liking them a lot.  I am tall and have played all of them at 37.5" at 2deg upright.

[Rich Douglas]

On 3/17/2021 at 6:15 AM, mtg said:

I'd love to try it... something tells me a two length system would be better though... thinking 38" 3-6 and maybe like 36.5" 7-P

This is a common thought among those who haven't yet played with single-length irons.

 

The entire concept revolves around having the same setup and swing for every iron. A two-length set would complicate it unnecessarily. In fact, you'd be making all the irons harder to hit consistently. 

 

The real question is to what extent you can use a single-length set. Some players--me included--find the lob wedge too difficult to use for its intended purpose. I love hitting it from the fairway, but I don't like it from the sand and when hitting lob shots. The lie angle is just too flat and the shaft is too long.

 

At the lower-numbered end, there is usually a limit to how far you can go. That's because loft creates about 85% of the gapping difference between clubs, which the shaft length makes up the other 15%. At some point in the set, depending on how fast you swing, you won't get effective gaps. For me, I could hit the 4-iron farther than the 5-iron, but this was roll-out. The carry distances were too close. So my current set tops out at the 5-iron. Slower swingers might even top out their sets at the 6-iron or 7-iron. But this dynamic is present in variable length sets, too. How many sets containing 3- or 4-irons are sold to people who cannot hit those clubs? A lot.

 

People who haven't done this think the advantage is having shorter low-lofted irons, and that the disadvantage is having longer high-lofted irons and wedges. Except at the extreme limits described above, this just isn't true. The main advantage is having one swing--one identical setup, swing, and feel, for your entire irons set. For me, that's 5-iron through SW. That advantage has me not only hitting my low-lofted irons better, but my high-lofted irons and wedges, too. All of them.

[Rich Douglas]

On 4/10/2021 at 9:25 PM, lefthack said:

but am not interested enough to spend $800 to find out.

 

This is a real issue with single-length clubs. Because they have to be properly fitted to be effective--off-the wall solutions are never good, but worse here--it's hard to test the concept without taking the plunge. I chose to take the plunge. The first single-length set I ever hit was the one I'd purchased.

 

My first set of Wishon Sterling clubs were not $800, however. They were more than $1K. Four years later, my Wishon EQ1-NX set was almost double that.

 

The problem with cheaper sets is that there is a big reason they're cheaper. Also, as off-the-rack clubs, there's little chance what you purchase is right for you, so it's hard to discern why they don't work for you--cheap materials or lousy fitting. 

[nostatic]

Wondering how many use OL just for the iron (and wedge) portion of their bag. In coming back from a long injury layoff, I'm finding I hit my 6-8i fine but am struggling with shorter iron/wedge (full swing). I think for whatever reason I'm having a tough time swinging around the body with the shorter club (I'm 6'1"). Curious about going 6 or 7-GW in OL, then moving to regular hybrid and woods (which I'm hitting fine). SW would be a regular one as I wouldn't hit that full swing anyway.

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, Rich Douglas said:

 

This is a real issue with single-length clubs. Because they have to be properly fitted to be effective--off-the wall solutions are never good, but worse here--it's hard to test the concept without taking the plunge. I chose to take the plunge. The first single-length set I ever hit was the one I'd purchased.

 

My first set of Wishon Sterling clubs were not $800, however. They were more than $1K. Four years later, my Wishon EQ1-NX set was almost double that.

 

The problem with cheaper sets is that there is a big reason they're cheaper. Also, as off-the-rack clubs, there's little chance what you purchase is right for you, so it's hard to discern why they don't work for you--cheap materials or lousy fitting. 

Yeah, for me the issue is lack of options. Edel is bespoke and Wishon ain't cheap. That leaves Cobra, which looking at their site for the Radspeed is still ~1K for a set of 5-GW. Right now I'm looking at Sub70 and I can get a 4-GW, a 55 and 60 wedges, and a 2i utility for barely more than that. 

 

And I'm not sure how the aftermarket is for used clubs, so I don't know if the resale value is going to be any good--especially if they're custom built for someone of my size (6'5") and swing speed (90 mph 7i). 

 

So taking the plunge is great if it works, but can be a pretty expensive mistake if it doesn't.

[lefthack]

1 hour ago, Rich Douglas said:

 

This is a real issue with single-length clubs. Because they have to be properly fitted to be effective--off-the wall solutions are never good, but worse here--it's hard to test the concept without taking the plunge. I chose to take the plunge. The first single-length set I ever hit was the one I'd purchased.

 

My first set of Wishon Sterling clubs were not $800, however. They were more than $1K. Four years later, my Wishon EQ1-NX set was almost double that.

 

The problem with cheaper sets is that there is a big reason they're cheaper. Also, as off-the-rack clubs, there's little chance what you purchase is right for you, so it's hard to discern why they don't work for you--cheap materials or lousy fitting. 

 

My current set is basic stock lie and loft, stock length shaft and they play amazing. I might build up a set of component heads at some point.

 

Major issue is I like nice stuff, but I'm a cheap bastxxx. If I got fitted for my KZG's, they would be $220 a club. I built them for $40 a club. I might have them adjusted at some point. But so far in 3 rounds they are amazing.

[Spankapotamus redux]

Bought my F9 OLs off eBay. Paid $400 for 5-GW. Still in the plastic. No fitting. Never had one ever. Played irons from maroon dot Pings that were +1.5 to stock offerings from a variety of manufacturers. Graphite, steel, regular and stiff. No significant impact on my game whatsoever. I think the whole idea of fitting is overrated for noncompetitive golfers, but to each their own. I don't want to spend a ton of money on golf equipment.

 

I had about a round of adjustment to the OLs. All mental. Once I stopped thinking about it, no problem. Hit them good distance (predictable and repeatable) and straight. Great irons.