One length irons WOW!!!

[NRJyzr]

49 minutes ago, Payton1020 said:

 

Haven't hit them yet. 

 

 

I hope you'll update us with how it goes when you hit them.  Good or bad, curious about the feedback.

 

I grabbed a 6i, 8i, and pw to build for my wife, which I've not yet assembled.  I think she could benefit from the single length concept.  Or the Dual Length concept.  🙂

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by NRJyzr

[lefthack]

6 hours ago, Payton1020 said:

 

Haven't hit them yet. 

 

I asked about lefty and the response was "not in 2021 for sure". They look good, let us know how they play.

[Rich Douglas]

On 4/20/2021 at 4:14 PM, Rich Douglas said:

On another note:

 

Regarding the temptation to use variable-length clubs for the "shorter" irons and wedges, I am not an advocate for one specific reason: I'm more accurate (distance and dispersion) with the single-length versions of these clubs, despite their longer lengths. I think there's something to be said for being "dialed in" with all of these clubs. (But YMMV, of course, and we should all do what we feel is best for us.)

 

Which brings up a question: where does the single-length set begin and end? Assuming we call the low-lofted irons the "beginning," the set begins with the lowest-lofted iron you can hit that will retain proper gapping. This is a function of swing speed and shaft length chosen. A good rule of thumb (that might not apply to you particularly) is that at the 8-iron length, you'll start your set one club "shorter" than a variable-length set. So if you are comfortable hitting a 4 iron as your lowest-lofted iron in a traditional set, you'll probably begin your variable-length irons with a 5-iron. (If you go with a longer shaft in the set, however, you might still start it at a 4-iron.)  Slower swingers who really can't hit their traditional 4-irons will likely start at a single-length 6-iron or so. (Amazing how many people have long irons in their bags that they simply cannot hit well. But it came with the set, right? Wrong. Dump those clubs and replace them with hybrids, please.)

 

I can hit the 4-iron at an 8-iron length, but it flies a little too low and rolls out a little too far for my tastes. So when I switched from Wishon Sterling to Wishon EQ1-NX I didn't miss the lack of a 4-iron in the new set. (Tom says he isn't going to do a 4-iron for the new set since it didn't sell well anyway.) I break mine out every once in a while to re-check my conclusion, but I always put it right back.

 

Now, the other end of the set. My set is 5I-SW. I have the Sterling LW and went back-and-forth between it and a traditional LW for years. My conclusion: I like hitting the Sterling LW from the fairway, especially with a full swing. But the length means the lie angle is just too flat to make it versatile enough out of the sand and around the green. Since that is the club's major function, I have finally (I think) settled on a traditional LW. That means, though, that it feels really different (length, lie angle, and swing weight) than my other irons. Thus, I only use it for half-swings from the fairway (60yds and in) and around the greens and sand. I never take a full swing with it, preferring instead to take a less-than-full swing with the SW for those shots between 60 and 115yds (the SW's full-swing carry). 

 

The only other decision I will have to make is whether or not to continue carrying traditional Ping hybrids (3H and 4H) or switch the 4H out for a Wishon EQ1-NX 4H set at the same length as my irons. I've hesitated since I have the 3H anyway. Or, perhaps, I could opt in for the Wishon hybrid, dump both Ping hybrids, which would leave me room for that Sterling LW for longer shots from the fairway. Because I choke down on the driver, I swing it and the TM mini-driver at the same length. This would reduce my total number of full swings to two--woods and irons.

 

I think I'll go lie down now....

I thought about what I posted...and I decided to do it.

 

I pulled the traditional hybrids (Ping G425 3H and 4H) from the bag. I added a 36.5" Wishon EQ1-NX 4-hybrid (same length as the rest of my irons). Man, does that club go! I can't believe I'm hitting this 4H as far as my traditional 4H, and a whole lot straighter.

 

I pulled the traditional Callaway 60-degree LW and put in the Sterling 36.5" LW. I also added a 64-degree LW, giving me 5 wedges (45, 50, 56, 60, and 64). 

 

The benefits. First, I now have more greenside options than ever. I spend much more time and cash around the greens than I do trying to choose between a 3H and a 4H (like, almost never). Second, I can now use the Sterling LW with full and near-full swings--the thing I loved most about it--without being tied to using it around the green. (I didn't like that because the length of the club made it too flat to use on flop and wide-open sand shots.) Third, the Callaway 64-degree wedge is great around the greens and out of the sand. Finally, I've reduced my full swings from four to two--one for woods (they're nearly the same length as each other) and one for irons (all the same length). 

 

I really noticed this last one by adding the Wishon EQ1-NX 4-hybrid. It looked like a hybrid, but swung like an 8-iron (as it should). This created a bit of cognitive dissonance on the first two swings. But the feel was the same as the rest of the irons, so that went away immediately. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

11 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

 

I really noticed this last one by adding the Wishon EQ1-NX 4-hybrid. It looked like a hybrid, but swung like an 8-iron (as it should). This created a bit of cognitive dissonance on the first two swings. But the feel was the same as the rest of the irons, so that went away immediately. 

 

Question, same shaft / weight / flex on the 4H as the rest of the set? 

 

It appears the head weight on the 4H is 20g lighter than the irons, so I'm interested how the setup needs to change to be balanced to the same feel...

[Rich Douglas]

4 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Question, same shaft / weight / flex on the 4H as the rest of the set? 

 

It appears the head weight on the 4H is 20g lighter than the irons, so I'm interested how the setup needs to change to be balanced to the same feel...

Yes. Same shaft, gross weight, swing weight, flex, MOI, everything.

 

The heads are designed with multiple, switchable weights so the can be made heavier for the single-length approach, or lighter for more traditional lengths. I swing all my irons at D3, so this 4H is at D3, too.

[extrastiff]

18 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

I thought about what I posted...and I decided to do it.

 

I pulled the traditional hybrids (Ping G425 3H and 4H) from the bag. I added a 36.5" Wishon EQ1-NX 4-hybrid (same length as the rest of my irons). Man, does that club go! I can't believe I'm hitting this 4H as far as my traditional 4H, and a whole lot straighter.

 

I pulled the traditional Callaway 60-degree LW and put in the Sterling 36.5" LW. I also added a 64-degree LW, giving me 5 wedges (45, 50, 56, 60, and 64). 

 

The benefits. First, I now have more greenside options than ever. I spend much more time and cash around the greens than I do trying to choose between a 3H and a 4H (like, almost never). Second, I can now use the Sterling LW with full and near-full swings--the thing I loved most about it--without being tied to using it around the green. (I didn't like that because the length of the club made it too flat to use on flop and wide-open sand shots.) Third, the Callaway 64-degree wedge is great around the greens and out of the sand. Finally, I've reduced my full swings from four to two--one for woods (they're nearly the same length as each other) and one for irons (all the same length). 

 

I really noticed this last one by adding the Wishon EQ1-NX 4-hybrid. It looked like a hybrid, but swung like an 8-iron (as it should). This created a bit of cognitive dissonance on the first two swings. But the feel was the same as the rest of the irons, so that went away immediately. 

If u could post ur ball speed and spin on those hybrids that would be awesome

Edited May 4, 2021 by extrastiff

[Rich Douglas]

21 minutes ago, extrastiff said:

If u could post ur ball speed and spin on those hybrids that would be awesome

Sorry, no. It's a great idea and would be very useful information for me--and I'd love to share it--but I do not have the time to get on a launch monitor or simulator. 

 

Maybe it's time to purchase one....

[ojosdegatonegro]

I have an Sterling 4 iron and asked Tom about a EQ1 4H cause they are pretty much same loft. He told me that in order to gain a few yards the hybrid should be an inch or two longer than the iron. So no hybrid for me.

[Rich Douglas]

6 hours ago, ojosdegatonegro said:

I have an Sterling 4 iron and asked Tom about a EQ1 4H cause they are pretty much same loft. He told me that in order to gain a few yards the hybrid should be an inch or two longer than the iron. So no hybrid for me.

I still have a Sterling 4-iron, and now I have the EQ1-NX 4-hybrid. The differences are stunning, and in a very good way.

 

My new 4-hybrid performs almost like my Ping G425 4-hybrid. I think it might fly a bit lower, but the carry distance was great and I didn't sense any issues stopping the ball. 

 

Yes, if you lengthen the club, you should gain some yards. Nothing unique there. If you do, however, you'll have to remove some weight from the head to maintain your swing weight.

[Truok]

8 hours ago, extrastiff said:

If u could post ur ball speed and spin on those hybrids that would be awesome

I've got 4&5 eq1 hybrids built to the same setup as my sterlings except I have a .335 tip shaft in the hybrids instead of the .370 iron shaft. They are the same weight though so feel pretty similar. Ive got a gc2 so I can post data later but I'm building some shelving in the garage this week so the simulator isn't setup.  But I played the sterling 4-5 irons and have hit the eq1 5 iron and I will say the hybrids definitely launch higher but spin pretty similar to the iron of similar loft.  I've never liked hybrids for whatever reason so they probably won't make it into the bag but for someone who does like the look of hybrids and need help getting the lower lofts airborne they definitely help with launch and are super forgiving.  I'm obsessed with my ping fw woods though so don't think I'll ever move into the eq1 fairway woods.  I'm weird and play 5-7-9 woods and then sterling 5-LW.  9 wood honestly feels like cheating at times. 240 carry dead straight, super high, almost get it to stop in it's pitch mark on the greens haha.  

[Truok]

1 hour ago, Rich Douglas said:

I still have a Sterling 4-iron, and now I have the EQ1-NX 4-hybrid. The differences are stunning, and in a very good way.

 

My new 4-hybrid performs almost like my Ping G425 4-hybrid. I think it might fly a bit lower, but the carry distance was great and I didn't sense any issues stopping the ball. 

 

Yes, if you lengthen the club, you should gain some yards. Nothing unique there. If you do, however, you'll have to remove some weight from the head to maintain your swing weight.

Rich if you ever Feel like parting ways with your sterling 4 iron let me know id be interested in buying it.  

[extrastiff]

6 hours ago, Truok said:

I've got 4&5 eq1 hybrids built to the same setup as my sterlings except I have a .335 tip shaft in the hybrids instead of the .370 iron shaft. They are the same weight though so feel pretty similar. Ive got a gc2 so I can post data later but I'm building some shelving in the garage this week so the simulator isn't setup.  But I played the sterling 4-5 irons and have hit the eq1 5 iron and I will say the hybrids definitely launch higher but spin pretty similar to the iron of similar loft.  I've never liked hybrids for whatever reason so they probably won't make it into the bag but for someone who does like the look of hybrids and need help getting the lower lofts airborne they definitely help with launch and are super forgiving.  I'm obsessed with my ping fw woods though so don't think I'll ever move into the eq1 fairway woods.  I'm weird and play 5-7-9 woods and then sterling 5-LW.  9 wood honestly feels like cheating at times. 240 carry dead straight, super high, almost get it to stop in it's pitch mark on the greens haha.  

Ok i look forward to data

Edited May 5, 2021 by extrastiff

[Jesus g]

i have tried these one length irons a few times but have never gotten on with them. the short irons launch to high and the long irons to low. i felt like i had to manipulate the club on every shot. i really wanted to like these which is why i have tried them a few times at demo days but just couldnt get on with them. just got fitted for mizuno irons, cant wait for them to arrive.

[ojosdegatonegro]

11 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

I still have a Sterling 4-iron, and now I have the EQ1-NX 4-hybrid. The differences are stunning, and in a very good way.

 

My new 4-hybrid performs almost like my Ping G425 4-hybrid. I think it might fly a bit lower, but the carry distance was great and I didn't sense any issues stopping the ball. 

 

Yes, if you lengthen the club, you should gain some yards. Nothing unique there. If you do, however, you'll have to remove some weight from the head to maintain your swing weight.

Well that's interesting. Maybe if I find some bargain i'll have it a try.

[Rich Douglas]

14 hours ago, Truok said:

Rich if you ever Feel like parting ways with your sterling 4 iron let me know id be interested in buying it.  

Unfortunately, it's part of the set (4I - LW). And it's more hassle than it's worth to sell it. But thanks!

[Rich Douglas]

6 hours ago, Jesus g said:

i have tried these one length irons a few times but have never gotten on with them. the short irons launch to high and the long irons to low. i felt like i had to manipulate the club on every shot. i really wanted to like these which is why i have tried them a few times at demo days but just couldnt get on with them. just got fitted for mizuno irons, cant wait for them to arrive.

Which brand and model? Because the Wishon EQ1-NX addresses these issues rather well. I find the low-lofted irons (which are built 1 degree weaker) fly higher than Sterling, and the wedges are a bit lower. Wishon optimized the launch angles in these clubs to cut down on the effect you describe.

[Jesus g]

On 5/5/2021 at 2:51 PM, Rich Douglas said:

Which brand and model? Because the Wishon EQ1-NX addresses these issues rather well. I find the low-lofted irons (which are built 1 degree weaker) fly higher than Sterling, and the wedges are a bit lower. Wishon optimized the launch angles in these clubs to cut down on the effect you describe.

I have only tried the Cobra one length irons. No other brands. I wish I had tried Wishon instead.

[metallica86]

I just got the Cobra radspeed one length with graphite shaft. Unfortunately unable to hit it on the range yet.

Any one else have tried this set? Thanks 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'm really starting to come around on this idea... My swing is inconsistent enough as it is, I think reducing some variables will be helpful. I can hit my long irons, but contact is all over the place. 

 

A big question will be what to do with the wedges. I think down to the GW, doing SL would make a lot of sense. For a SW and LW, though, given that these are rarely "full swing" clubs for me anyway, I wonder if it makes more sense to make those two wedges a little shorter (both the same length as each other though). Depending on the shot, I sometimes choke down on them, and at the same length as my irons it might not give me as many options. 

 

My current 8i (at +1.5") is 38". My current SW is 36.5" and LW is 36.75". Assuming I went with a full set down to GW at 38", ordering a couple wedges at 37" would probably be good without causing me too much variance, right?

[The4TH]

44 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

I'm really starting to come around on this idea... My swing is inconsistent enough as it is, I think reducing some variables will be helpful. I can hit my long irons, but contact is all over the place. 

 

A big question will be what to do with the wedges. I think down to the GW, doing SL would make a lot of sense. For a SW and LW, though, given that these are rarely "full swing" clubs for me anyway, I wonder if it makes more sense to make those two wedges a little shorter (both the same length as each other though). Depending on the shot, I sometimes choke down on them, and at the same length as my irons it might not give me as many options. 

 

My current 8i (at +1.5") is 38". My current SW is 36.5" and LW is 36.75". Assuming I went with a full set down to GW at 38", ordering a couple wedges at 37" would probably be good without causing me too much variance, right?

Since you are not making full swing with SW and LW, just stick with standard length. Works just fine.

Save the guess work on shaft length. You can always find a used OL SW to try and see how you like it though. 

[BreezyBrett20]

Tried for a while to get along with my cobra forged tec one lengths, couldn’t get used to them 

[Rich Douglas]

5 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

I'm really starting to come around on this idea... My swing is inconsistent enough as it is, I think reducing some variables will be helpful. I can hit my long irons, but contact is all over the place. 

 

A big question will be what to do with the wedges. I think down to the GW, doing SL would make a lot of sense. For a SW and LW, though, given that these are rarely "full swing" clubs for me anyway, I wonder if it makes more sense to make those two wedges a little shorter (both the same length as each other though). Depending on the shot, I sometimes choke down on them, and at the same length as my irons it might not give me as many options. 

 

My current 8i (at +1.5") is 38". My current SW is 36.5" and LW is 36.75". Assuming I went with a full set down to GW at 38", ordering a couple wedges at 37" would probably be good without causing me too much variance, right?

Many single-length players stop at the GW, and there are strong arguments for doing so.

 

If you don't tend to use the SW and LW on full swings, there's not much advantage in extending the single-length set through them. But I have to say that I really, really like doing so. But with these clubs built around an 8-iron length, they're too flat to do much around the greens except chipping with the face square. I don't mind hitting the SW out of the sand, though, so it's fine with me. If you take a single-length SW or LW and open the face, it's too flat--it brings the toe into play in a bad way. 

 

I recently put the LW back in and then added a 64-degree traditional LW. This is strictly because I love hitting a 90-yard LW with a full swing, something I just would not do with a traditional LW. 

 

As for them being just an inch shorter, I don't think you'll see/feel too much variance. Just be sure to get the static weights, swing weights, and lie angles right for you.

 

Remember, guidelines are just that. Set up and hit the clubs the way you want.

[Rich Douglas]

55 minutes ago, BreezyBrett20 said:

Tried for a while to get along with my cobra forged tec one lengths, couldn’t get used to them 

It's unusual for someone to fail to get used to them if they play them for a while. Could you elaborate on what you felt was the problem?

[adonad]

As mentioned in this thread already , inconsistency in the longer iron kept me from trying these irons. But then again, I don't use longer irons that much. maybe 5-p irons are all I need. 

[Rich Douglas]

2 hours ago, adonad said:

As mentioned in this thread already , inconsistency in the longer iron kept me from trying these irons. But then again, I don't use longer irons that much. maybe 5-p irons are all I need. 

That's the calculation I made. 

 

In my last variable-length set, I carried a 4-iron and could hit it well. When I went to Wishon Sterling single-length in 2016, I had the clubs built around an 8-iron length. This put the 4-iron on the borderline. It turned out that I could hit it, but it was just a bit too low (a common phenomenon) and rolled out farther than I needed. So I replaced it with a traditional hybrid.

 

I switched to the Wishon EQ1-NX late last year. Wishon didn't include a 4-iron in that set (it didn't sell well and even those who bought it weren't all that happy with it--like me). No trouble for me since I'd already switched to the 4-hybrid (Ping). But I recently added the EQ1-NX 4-hybrid a few weeks ago--also made at an 8-iron length. It is more accurate and just as long as my traditional hybrid!

 

Bottom line: don't be shy about cutting off the set at the appropriate iron. 

[clinkinfo]

On 5/5/2021 at 9:01 AM, Jesus g said:

i have tried these one length irons a few times but have never gotten on with them. the short irons launch to high and the long irons to low. i felt like i had to manipulate the club on every shot. i really wanted to like these which is why i have tried them a few times at demo days but just couldnt get on with them. just got fitted for mizuno irons, cant wait for them to arrive.

 

you’re not alone.  This is exactly my experience as well.  They produced high short irons with stupid spin, and low long irons with no holding power.  
 

But....let’s not forget, this isn’t a new concept.  One length irons have been around since the 80’s.  They have a VERY niche client that benefits from them making them worth the trade offs.  The reason it’s so “hot” again as a topic is only because one tour player, who seems to be naturally talented and very driven, has been successful with them.  But it’s been decades since the concept came to market and it still really has no traction.  I don’t believe it’s because of some conspiracy theory, and a market that simply refuses to adopt them.  Hell, if they worked better for me I’d play them!  The problem is, they generally don’t.  And that’s why you don’t see a bunch of other players and tour pros playing one length either.   While they didn’t really work for me,  if someone is happy playing them, more power to them.

Edited May 12, 2021 by clinkinfo

[Rich Douglas]

2 hours ago, clinkinfo said:

They produced high short irons with stupid spin, and low long irons with no holding power.  

I wonder what brand and model you tried? I played Wishon Sterling for 4 years and have been in the Wishon EQ1-NX since they came out last year. This was not my experience.

 

The "short" irons were a bit higher, but not in a bothersome way. Spin? Again, pretty normal. Both were attributes, actually.

 

The long irons could be problematic. It's why I opted out of the Sterling 4-iron after playing it for months. (To get a 4-iron to play normally at an 8-hour length would be quite the miracle.) But the 5-iron played really well. The EQ1-NX 5-iron is even better with a more optimal CG and a slightly weaker loft. 

 

Back on the "short" end, I like the performance of single-length wedges over variable-length wedges...by far. 

 

Each player's experience is different, of course, and nothing I'm saying is meant to cancel anyone else's experience. Just another point of view.

[mosesgolf]

Perhaps same length 4-7 iron and then standard progressive lengths from 8-PW might work better.  A 7 iron length pw seems very odd.  

[Rich Douglas]

11 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Perhaps same length 4-7 iron and then standard progressive lengths from 8-PW might work better.  A 7 iron length pw seems very odd.  

This comes up a lot--from people who have not actually played with single-length clubs. I know, because I started with that thought, too. It seems reasonable, right? But, counter-intuitively, it doesn't work that way.

 

The conventional wisdom is that length is the dominant issue regarding iron play and how easy/hard it is to perform with a particular iron Long is hard and short is easy. And this is true for variable-length (traditional) clubs. But it isn't with single-length (SL) clubs.

 

The main advantage in SL clubs is NOT that the low-lofted irons are shorter. (And, thus, the countering disadvantage must be that the "short" irons are longer.) What happens dynamically is that you end up grooving one swing for all irons. (Whether that is a one-plane or two-plane is an individual choice--SL clubs work for both.) Thus, the PW is as easy to swing as the 5-iron. (Easier to swing, but not easier to hit because of loft differences.) All your irons become easier to swing because you're grooving one move, having one set-up, and using one ball position. From personal experience, I'm more accurate with my wedges now than before I switched almost 6 years ago.

 

The single length you chose can have an impact on this, of course. Players can choose to shape their set around a 6-, 7-, or 8-iron. Some sets are designed more towards one length or another, but there's variability there, usually a 1/2" (from YOUR standard set up). For example, I play Wishon EQ1-NX fitted around an 8-iron length, but other players choose a 7-iron length. Cobra SL irons are designed around a 7-iron, while Edel is designed around a 6-iron. But, again, you can adjust according to your needs. However, if you go as long as a 6-iron--again, YOUR 6-iron length--the wedges can feel pretty long. Flat, too. And that's where I draw the line, because the SW in such a set is so flat you might opt for a standard SW instead. Many do.

 

Do what you want, of course. But getting to hit a shorter 5-iron is only part of it, and not even the most important part. The most important advantage is having one swing for all of your irons, even the longer "short" irons.

[betarhoalphadelta]

@Rich Douglas What "class" of iron would you say the EQ1-NX fits into? Would they be players distance irons (i.e. "power blades" lol)? Are they forgiving? How about toe strikes (my miss)?

 

I'm a high-cap, but with the swing speed and draw tendency where I don't need some iron with huge offset to help me close the face nor technology to "get the ball up in the air". So I don't think SGI irons are for me... But I'm also not good enough to play blade-style irons without a lot of forgiveness. Which I think takes the Edel out of the equation for me. For comparison, my current clubs are 2001 "oversize" CBs, but I'd like more forgiveness than CB if I can get it.

 

I'm not sure I want to deal with Cobra because I feel like their lie angles and club weighting is fighting against the ethos of the SL concept... I know their offerings are a little more GI though. But I don't want massive offset either.