One length irons WOW!!!

[TKS]

5 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

@Rich Douglas What "class" of iron would you say the EQ1-NX fits into? Would they be players distance irons (i.e. "power blades" lol)? Are they forgiving? How about toe strikes (my miss)?

 

I'm a high-cap, but with the swing speed and draw tendency where I don't need some iron with huge offset to help me close the face nor technology to "get the ball up in the air". So I don't think SGI irons are for me... But I'm also not good enough to play blade-style irons without a lot of forgiveness. Which I think takes the Edel out of the equation for me. For comparison, my current clubs are 2001 "oversize" CBs, but I'd like more forgiveness than CB if I can get it.

 

I'm not sure I want to deal with Cobra because I feel like their lie angles and club weighting is fighting against the ethos of the SL concept... I know their offerings are a little more GI though. But I don't want massive offset either.

The EQs are quite the anomaly. Large, hollow body design for great forgivness. But, with the low offset - throughout the set like a blade. Toms also got the cg right to increase trajectories in the top of the set, lowering the trajectories in the scoring clubs. Get these into "your shaft" and work on your ball position.

[Rich Douglas]

7 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

@Rich Douglas What "class" of iron would you say the EQ1-NX fits into? Would they be players distance irons (i.e. "power blades" lol)? Are they forgiving? How about toe strikes (my miss)?

 

I'm a high-cap, but with the swing speed and draw tendency where I don't need some iron with huge offset to help me close the face nor technology to "get the ball up in the air". So I don't think SGI irons are for me... But I'm also not good enough to play blade-style irons without a lot of forgiveness. Which I think takes the Edel out of the equation for me. For comparison, my current clubs are 2001 "oversize" CBs, but I'd like more forgiveness than CB if I can get it.

 

I'm not sure I want to deal with Cobra because I feel like their lie angles and club weighting is fighting against the ethos of the SL concept... I know their offerings are a little more GI though. But I don't want massive offset either.

If you accept the definitions of Player's, Game-Improvement, and Super Game-Improvement, I'd say they were Game-Improvement. Lots of forgiveness inside the club, but the design is pretty traditional. There is a bit of offset, but it is just 2 degrees and standardized throughout the set. The soles are not particularly wide. The center of gravity is optimized for each club.

 

Toe misses are my specialty and these are particularly forgiving there.

 

(No one is "good enough" to play blades; they only think they are. If you are "good enough" to play them, you'd get just as much playability from Player's irons, plus more forgiveness. There are no advantages to playing blades, but each person is entitled to make up his/her mind on club design.)

[betarhoalphadelta]

Thanks @TKS and @Rich Douglas !

 

Time to look at a fitter...

[TKS]

7 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Thanks @TKS and @Rich Douglas !

 

Time to look at a fitter...

Should be back in stock by......eh, who knows.

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 minutes ago, TKS said:

Should be back in stock by......eh, who knows.

 

Yeah, I reached out to a fitter and he said he's got another set for a customer that has heads on backorder with a 3-4 week lead time and he's not sure that will hold... 

 

That said, I'm in electronics... I get that right now supply chains nearly worldwide are a fuster cluck, so I am not going to worry that much.

 

I completely forgot how to hit a golf ball my last round, so I probably need to get some range time in before I'll have found my swing again to go to a fitting anyway lol...

 

[Rich Douglas]

4 hours ago, TKS said:

Should be back in stock by......eh, who knows.

Good point. I would encourage people interested in Wishon clubs to go to the website. There is a discussion thread there about the SL clubs...and Tom is an active participant. On that thread he as kept readers updated on the very real double-whammy of increased demand due to Covid and diminished manufacturing due to...wait for it...Covid. Ironically, this is all occurring in China. All roads and all that.

[betarhoalphadelta]

Ok... Another question.

 

Right now my swing work is on eliminating my stall/flip and hitting down on the ball with positive shaft lean.  I think I'm doing a decent job of it.

 

The shorter the iron, and the more back it is in your stance, the more loft you take off the clubface at impact via shaft lean. The longer the club, and the farther forward it is in your stance, the less you do that. 

 

Are there any issues with this when you're playing, say, a 20* 4H or a 24* 5i at 8i length and ball placement? Does the shaft lean cause dynamic loft angle to be lower than a variable-length set at the same loft? And does it matter?

 

Or is it not enough of a difference to matter much?

[Rich Douglas]

3 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Ok... Another question.

 

Right now my swing work is on eliminating my stall/flip and hitting down on the ball with positive shaft lean.  I think I'm doing a decent job of it.

 

The shorter the iron, and the more back it is in your stance, the more loft you take off the clubface at impact via shaft lean. The longer the club, and the farther forward it is in your stance, the less you do that. 

 

Are there any issues with this when you're playing, say, a 20* 4H or a 24* 5i at 8i length and ball placement? Does the shaft lean cause dynamic loft angle to be lower than a variable-length set at the same loft? And does it matter?

 

Or is it not enough of a difference to matter much?

One of the fundamentals of single-length irons is that ball placement doesn't change. That's because ball placement in your stance is a function of the length of the club. Since every club is the same length, the ball is located in the same place in your set up.

 

That said, there are some who advocate moving the ball up for the lowest lofted irons. I wonder if that's because of the phenomenon you describe?

 

This might be a real thing. Or it might simply be a distinction without a difference, where it is technically true, yet doesn't really matter during play. I don't know. I do know that, in the case of my set of clubs, the designer moved weighting around to increase launch angle in the lower-lofted clubs, as well as weakening the lofts in those particular irons by 1 degree. The 5-iron has a 24-degree loft, which is similar to standard 5-irons. 

 

(On another note, some who try SL irons complain that the low-lofted clubs fly too low, even though the lofts are the same. I wonder if shaft length has an impact on launch angle?)

 

All-in-all, the difference might be real, but I doubt it matters much. But that's just my opinion.

[mookio]

so curious to try these out

[boggyman]

Finally picked mine up...

4-SW Rad Speeds with Recoil 95 and 

Snake Bite 56 bent to 58. 

One range trip so far but liking them. Just getting back into it after a 4 month layoff due to Achilles issues. Liking what I’m seeing so far. Digging the Recoils as well. 

[Rich Douglas]

5 hours ago, boggyman said:

Finally picked mine up...

4-SW Rad Speeds with Recoil 95 and 

Snake Bite 56 bent to 58. 

One range trip so far but liking them. Just getting back into it after a 4 month layoff due to Achilles issues. Liking what I’m seeing so far. Digging the Recoils as well. 

Good luck! Let us know what you think about the SW, especially out of bunkers and hitting lobs.

[Rich Douglas]

On 5/12/2021 at 7:15 PM, TKS said:

The EQs are quite the anomaly. Large, hollow body design for great forgivness. But, with the low offset - throughout the set like a blade. Toms also got the cg right to increase trajectories in the top of the set, lowering the trajectories in the scoring clubs. Get these into "your shaft" and work on your ball position.

The ball position should (SHOULD) be the same as whatever traditional iron the set was built around. So, if you have a set build around YOUR 8-iron length, the ball position would be similar to where you had your traditional 8-iron. But I would say that's a starting point; find your own way.

[boggyman]

3 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

Good luck! Let us know what you think about the SW, especially out of bunkers and hitting lobs.

I’ve hit several shots with the SW,it’s the match to the irons. It’s great and checks well , fir me at least, for a set match SW. Haven’t hit it out of a bunker yet, but for all other shots it definitely does it’s job. The Snake Bite I use as a 58. It’s the shizzle for sure. Stops on a heartbeat! Money well spent. I usually like to only carry a 56* wedge so might get another Snake Bite, have to see how it goes though! 

Edited May 15, 2021 by boggyman

[Rich Douglas]

8 hours ago, boggyman said:

I’ve hit several shots with the SW,it’s the match to the irons. It’s great and checks well , fir me at least, for a set match SW. Haven’t hit it out of a bunker yet, but for all other shots it definitely does it’s job. The Snake Bite I use as a 58. It’s the shizzle for sure. Stops on a heartbeat! Money well spent. I usually like to only carry a 56* wedge so might get another Snake Bite, have to see how it goes though! 

The potential issue with the SW is that it is long and, thus, flat. Not everyone is comfortable with being that far away from the ball and swinging the club on a flatter plane. Personally, I'm fine with it, but I had trouble with the LW, which is why I added a 64* wedge to the bag and took out a hybrid.

[boggyman]

5 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

The potential issue with the SW is that it is long and, thus, flat. Not everyone is comfortable with being that far away from the ball and swinging the club on a flatter plane. Personally, I'm fine with it, but I had trouble with the LW, which is why I added a 64* wedge to the bag and took out a hybrid.

Mine are all 36.5” long and 2* upright. I’ve no issues as of yet to mention. 

[NRJyzr]

Assembled a 6i/8i/PW of the Pinhawk Vertex set for my wife, yesterday, they're curing as I tap this post.  She's excited to try them; likes the theory.  

 

If she likes how they play for her, I'll add the 7i/9i/GW later.

 

If anyone is interested, these will be trimmed to the recommended 36.5" 8i length (my wife is on the tall side at 5' 9").

If no one is interested,  these will be trimmed to the recommended 36.5" 8i length.

 

[JDCON]

Are there single length irons that are forged players irons? Really thinking of going back to SL.

[boggyman]

24 minutes ago, JDCON said:

Are there single length irons that are forged players irons? Really thinking of going back to SL.

Cobra has them.

[Rich Douglas]

On 5/16/2021 at 4:28 AM, boggyman said:

Mine are all 36.5” long and 2* upright. I’ve no issues as of yet to mention. 

I have the exact same setup. I, too, haven't had a problem with the SW. It was the LW around the greens and in the bunkers that gave me fits. So I added a conventional LW.

[boggyman]

Just now, Rich Douglas said:

I have the exact same setup. I, too, haven't had a problem with the SW. It was the LW around the greens and in the bunkers that gave me fits. So I added a conventional LW.

Gotcha. Used mine in backyard yesterday as I’m not hitting many full shots just yet, and have no issues either. Liking the irons so far very well.

[Celeras]

I play only my 4/5/6 in one length and the rest at traditional length. I hear what people are saying about this part of the bag and I can't disagree.. the 4 is definitely a lower shot with rollout. But for me, the consistency of strike outways the flight and its not even close. I hit these bad boys as consistently at my high irons/wedges, something I definitely could not say with traditional length and definitely not hybrids/woods (off the deck). Having that kind of confidence from 220 out changed my game, and I could not care less if I occasionally roll off the back.

[Rich Douglas]

53 minutes ago, Celeras said:

I play only my 4/5/6 in one length and the rest at traditional length. I hear what people are saying about this part of the bag and I can't disagree.. the 4 is definitely a lower shot with rollout. But for me, the consistency of strike outways the flight and its not even close. I hit these bad boys as consistently at my high irons/wedges, something I definitely could not say with traditional length and definitely not hybrids/woods (off the deck). Having that kind of confidence from 220 out changed my game, and I could not care less if I occasionally roll off the back.

It's great to hear your enjoyment and success with your set. But for other readers, please note that the main benefit of using single length clubs is NOT being able to hit shorter 4/5/6/7-irons, just as it is not a detriment to "have" to hit longer 9/PW/GW/SW irons. The main benefit is to groove one swing for all your irons, which cannot be done when you vary the lengths in some of the set. 

 

But remember, it's your game and your clubs. Do what works for you!

[ojosdegatonegro]

I have an issue regarding long irons, most of the time some slice shows up. I have to close the face in order to keep these shots straight. I'm not sure if I'm overswinging this clubs just because I have to go farther, but in my mind the swing is the same with all the clubs. Somebody experiencing something similar?

[Rich Douglas]

3 hours ago, ojosdegatonegro said:

I have an issue regarding long irons, most of the time some slice shows up. I have to close the face in order to keep these shots straight. I'm not sure if I'm overswinging this clubs just because I have to go farther, but in my mind the swing is the same with all the clubs. Somebody experiencing something similar?

It's very natural to swing harder with the low-lofted irons in a single-length set....at first. Your mind is telling you something is wrong, that the club is too short. But practice makes this go away.

 

I had that experience when I first switched to single-length irons 5 years ago. I had it all over again recently when I put in my bag a 4-hybrid that is the same 8-iron length as the rest of the set. Something about the hybrid head told me to swing it flatter than my irons. Booo! I'm still working that out, but it's getting better.

[Rich Douglas]

3 hours ago, Rich Douglas said:

It's very natural to swing harder with the low-lofted irons in a single-length set....at first. Your mind is telling you something is wrong, that the club is too short. But practice makes this go away.

 

I had that experience when I first switched to single-length irons 5 years ago. I had it all over again recently when I put in my bag a 4-hybrid that is the same 8-iron length as the rest of the set. Something about the hybrid head told me to swing it flatter than my irons. Booo! I'm still working that out, but it's getting better.

Oh, and another thing to watch for...When I first made the switch, I was holding the club so far to the butt end of the grip that the butt tore a hole in my glove (which is how I realized it). I was subconsciously lengthening the club when, in times past, I normally choked down 1/2-inch. 

[JayMas]

Question(s) for the thread:

 

I game Cobra forged tec one lengths, which have undoubtedly improved my iron play over the last 12 months. (that along with a healthy dose of Monte's rebellion golf instructional content). I enjoy the irons, but I'd be lying if I said I enjoyed the feel as much as the one length utility iron and hybrid with graphite shafts. Better feeling swing weight, overall feel like I can swing faster, etc.

 

I'd love to reshaft my forged tecs into graphite shafts, but I'm not sure where to begin. The recommended shaft is project x catalyst on cobra's site, but the one thing that jumped out to me is that it seems to be saying the same shaft is in each iron with that setup. With the KBS steel shafts there are different weights and profiles in different clubs depending on whether they are long, mid, or short irons. And the new radspeed one lengths have the same concept with the ust recoil shafts.

 

Would I be able to take them to any reputable fitter that is one length certified and get put in the right graphite shafts? The last thing I'd want to do is ruin the set. But I'm also not about to buy the same exact irons just with graphite, brand new.

 

Any insight would be appreciated!

[adamnbomb]

Curious if those have tried out the one length clubs for a good while have found the short game and more touch shots easier to execute? Watching Bryson it seems the touch shots are his biggest struggle week in and week out.

[JayMas]

1 minute ago, adamnbomb said:

Curious if those have tried out the one length clubs for a good while have found the short game and more touch shots easier to execute? Watching Bryson it seems the touch shots are his biggest struggle week in and week out.

I really put in a lot of time to try and make a 56 and 60 work at 7 iron length. No dice. Too many specialty shots. I play the 7 iron length through gap wedge and play ping glides, variable length at 54 and 58 degrees. Outside of never feeling comfortable or executing the shots I wanted with the 7 iron length sand and lob, I also couldn't get them in 54 and 58 degrees which was better for my gapping of a 49.5 degree gap wedge that's in the set.

 

I have no doubt people can stick with it and do great things with the 7 iron length wedges, but after 1 year with no positive gains...I switched back and my higher lofted wedge game is in a great place.

[Rich Douglas]

2 hours ago, JayMas said:

Question(s) for the thread:

 

I game Cobra forged tec one lengths, which have undoubtedly improved my iron play over the last 12 months. (that along with a healthy dose of Monte's rebellion golf instructional content). I enjoy the irons, but I'd be lying if I said I enjoyed the feel as much as the one length utility iron and hybrid with graphite shafts. Better feeling swing weight, overall feel like I can swing faster, etc.

 

I'd love to reshaft my forged tecs into graphite shafts, but I'm not sure where to begin. The recommended shaft is project x catalyst on cobra's site, but the one thing that jumped out to me is that it seems to be saying the same shaft is in each iron with that setup. With the KBS steel shafts there are different weights and profiles in different clubs depending on whether they are long, mid, or short irons. And the new radspeed one lengths have the same concept with the ust recoil shafts.

 

Would I be able to take them to any reputable fitter that is one length certified and get put in the right graphite shafts? The last thing I'd want to do is ruin the set. But I'm also not about to buy the same exact irons just with graphite, brand new.

 

Any insight would be appreciated!

There are competing schools of thoughts on this, mostly related to flex and "kick point." Some feel having a more flexible kick point in the lower-lofted irons helps them get into the air. I disagree, feeling that the difference is negligible and you won't see any practical difference.

 

Tom Wishon recommends one shaft--the same shaft--for your entire single-length set. I concur. Otherwise, you're getting into a guessing game with very little upside.

 

As for going from steel to graphite, you have to watch out for changes in the static weight of the shaft, which will also affect swing weight. If you're sensitive to swing weight--I am--it can be very troublesome. When I decided to make the switch, I purchased a new set built around the new shaft and with my target swing weight in mind.

[NRJyzr]

18 minutes ago, Rich Douglas said:

you have to watch out for changes in the static weight of the shaft, which will also affect swing weight. If you're sensitive to swing weight--I am--it can be very troublesome.

 

I borrow something from Dave Tutelman to adapt to lighter shafts.  That idea was to take one third of the change in shaft weight and add it back to the clubhead.  You could call it a poor man's MOI approximation.  <shrug>

 

I use it with woods as well as irons.