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golf's not a team sport and these are paid professionals   give the olympics back to the ams

He’ll fly anywhere halfway around the world if he’s getting paid. Represent your country for free? Nah. 

Olympics are worthless. 

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On 3/13/2021 at 9:17 PM, Holy Moses said:

He’ll fly anywhere halfway around the world if he’s getting paid. Represent your country for free? Nah. 

Oh please with the country bs. This country is so divided and lopsided and laws are so messed up and not revised that its not even funny. I love the usa of course but Olympics means nothing honestly. Its just another sporting event. More glaring issues then Olympics and who doesn't want to play. Im not raging at you btw lol im just saying at ppl who take these kinda things too seriously. I know you werent though im just sayin. I will say this... if we all just thought a little bit harder before our actions and words the world would be a much better place.

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I think that @TiScape makes a good point in regards to the pinnacle of a sport being the Olympics for some and not others. While I think it's nice to say and have that as an accomplishment, some sports, namely golf, have much more to gain in fame and fortune at other events throughout the year. 

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"Playing for your country" is a way of saying "you'll participate for free while we enjoy our suites and cocktails on the money you bring in."  Kind of like amateurism's "love of the game" ethos was really just cover for rich people to keep poorer people out of their games.  (Jay Bilas had some real good comments on this recently.)

 

Honor to "represent your country."  It might be an honor to compete, but given how many athletes will change flags in order to participate, it's a load of hogwash.  Y'all noticed Rory Sabatini, he of Bratisla-, no wait, Durban birth, is a Slovak.  Track and field is full of Kenyans and Ethiopians who now run for other countries.  And I don't blame them.  Go to the Olympics, or not go because there are better athletes in "my country?"  Easy choice IMHO.     

 

The President's Cup would be a Righties vs Lefties event in a heartbeat if they thought it would bring in more money.  The nationalism angle happens to be what brings it in this year, so they do that.  And there is the added benefit of, as this thread has shown, there becomes pressure on someone to participate for free, because it's "for your country."  I don't recall the US Government or any other national group pushing for the President's Cup, or the Ryder Cup.  Some organizers decided teams would be set up this way.  

 

You represent your country in treaty negotiations, or in a military capacity.  Athletic competitions?  Not really.  Not in my mind at least. 

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7 hours ago, Nachosgrande said:

The Olympics are dumb. If the sports contested had any relevance they would be played in wildly popular leagues every year to millions of fans. But they’re not, and I hate to see golf brought down to that level. To me it’s disrespectful to the institution of golf. That and the IOC is a political organization.

Hockey and basketball have some pretty popular leagues...

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1 minute ago, adeangelis said:

Hockey and basketball have some pretty popular leagues...

Hockey is Winter Olympics, which has even less merit. And no basketball fan takes the Olympic team seriously either. IOC cares more about political posturing than sport and it's reflected in the viewership ratings. All of these real sports are already competing with the world's best athletes every week. The Olympics has little relevance.

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17 minutes ago, adeangelis said:

Hockey and basketball have some pretty popular leagues...

Olympic hockey was relevant when the US college guys were playing the Soviets.  Once the pros started playing, it lost its relevance.

 

I don't know even where to begin with "The Dream Team."

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1 hour ago, gvogel said:

Olympic hockey was relevant when the US college guys were playing the Soviets.  Once the pros started playing, it lost its relevance.

 

I don't know even where to begin with "The Dream Team."

 

I disagree about hockey relevance.  It became much more relevant when everyone's best players were facing each other.  We can have discussion about whether that is the best forum, but they are far more relevant than the "world championships" when half of Canada's team, and US and Russia as well are playing in NHL playoffs.  

 

The dream team gets looked at the wrong way.  Everyone just sees that in 92 the US won every game by 44 points.  But go back to 1956, and the US college players were just as dominant.  By 1972, the Soviets were at least playing with the US(they did not beat them, but the gap had been closed somewhat).  And in 1988, with some help from the US coach in selecting players, the Soviets do hammer them.  

 

But look at basketball since the Dream Team.  By 2002 you had Argentina winning a world championship, and the US didn't win gold in 2004, and had to make a very concerted effort to win because it is no longer a lock that stepping on the floor = gold medals.  Not to mention, look at the composition of the NBA today.  It's nearly 50% international.  It has spurred far more positive than negative.     

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14 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

I disagree about hockey relevance.  It became much more relevant when everyone's best players were facing each other.  We can have discussion about whether that is the best forum, but they are far more relevant than the "world championships" when half of Canada's team, and US and Russia as well are playing in NHL playoffs.  

 

The dream team gets looked at the wrong way.  Everyone just sees that in 92 the US won every game by 44 points.  But go back to 1956, and the US college players were just as dominant.  By 1972, the Soviets were at least playing with the US(they did not beat them, but the gap had been closed somewhat).  And in 1988, with some help from the US coach in selecting players, the Soviets do hammer them.  

 

But look at basketball since the Dream Team.  By 2002 you had Argentina winning a world championship, and the US didn't win gold in 2004, and had to make a very concerted effort to win because it is no longer a lock that stepping on the floor = gold medals.  Not to mention, look at the composition of the NBA today.  It's nearly 50% international.  It has spurred far more positive than negative.     

Best athletes in the world in any discipline are what we all deserve to see for sure.

 

As I posted earlier, the line between pro and am and all the BS involved with that goes back over 70 years.  U.S. wanted to hold to some silly line in the sand about amateurs way too long.  Nothing "pure" about it when it's not an even playing field for all sorts of reasons in the past and again, the best should compete.

 

All the rest?  Low hanging fruit.  Politics, money grabs, corruption, playing on nationalism now mostly to "sell" it . . . I've been tired of the Olympics for years.  Gymanstics can be fascinating, wrestling okay if some Iowa or ISU guys are wrestling, downhill is fun .... otherwise, a cup of coffee, a good book and a lengthy curling match is about is fun as it gets for me the past several Olympics. No point feeding the madness!

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5 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Best athletes in the world in any discipline are what we all deserve to see for sure.

 

As I posted earlier, the line between pro and am and all the BS involved with that goes back over 70 years.  U.S. wanted to hold to some silly line in the sand about amateurs way too long.  Nothing "pure" about it when it's not an even playing field for all sorts of reasons in the past and again, the best should compete.

 

All the rest?  Low hanging fruit.  Politics, money grabs, corruption, playing on nationalism now mostly to "sell" it . . . I've been tired of the Olympics for years.  Gymanstics can be fascinating, wrestling okay if some Iowa or ISU guys are wrestling, downhill is fun .... otherwise, a cup of coffee, a good book and a lengthy curling match is about is fun as it gets for me the past several Olympics. No point feeding the madness!

 

Anyone who knows me know I side with players in almost all disputes with owners.  Except when it came to NHL players in the Olympics.  Why should owners risk losing their best players for the rest of the season, and shutdown their league for two weeks, for no compensation?  They don't even get to use the video or images from the tournament afterwards.  The NHL players drive a large part of the winter olympics interest, and they had to negotiate to get the IOC to pay for the insurance!  The IOC acts like they are entitled.  It says a lot about the IOC if I agree with owners on something.

 

I've always said the "playing for your country" is not the draw for an athlete people think it is.  Heck, just this week, a heptathlete here in Canada announced she will be competing for China.  Does anyone really think the 7th best in the world at something would pass up the Olympics because there are already 3 from their country in the top 6?  A number of middle eastern middle distance rosters show that not to be the case.

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8 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Anyone who knows me know I side with players in almost all disputes with owners.  Except when it came to NHL players in the Olympics.  Why should owners risk losing their best players for the rest of the season, and shutdown their league for two weeks, for no compensation?  They don't even get to use the video or images from the tournament afterwards.  The NHL players drive a large part of the winter olympics interest, and they had to negotiate to get the IOC to pay for the insurance!  The IOC acts like they are entitled.  It says a lot about the IOC if I agree with owners on something.

 

I've always said the "playing for your country" is not the draw for an athlete people think it is.  Heck, just this week, a heptathlete here in Canada announced she will be competing for China.  Does anyone really think the 7th best in the world at something would pass up the Olympics because there are already 3 from their country in the top 6?  A number of middle eastern middle distance rosters show that not to be the case.

Yep. And this is where it gets interesting because golfers are highly inspired to play for their country in the Ryder and President’s Cup, but not in the Olympics.

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7 hours ago, Nachosgrande said:

Yep. And this is where it gets interesting because golfers are highly inspired to play for their country in the Ryder and President’s Cup, but not in the Olympics.

 

BUt they're not "playing for their countries."  They are on a team that someone decided would be the breakdown.  "International"?  WTF does that even mean for them?  What do HIdeki Matsuyama and Charl Schwartzel have in common? If righties vs lefties brought in more money, the teams would change in an instant.

 

Guys want to be on the Ryder Cup team because of the sponsorship deals they can generate from it.  Secondly, the team aspect is appealing for guys who normally are on their own.

 

They will never say it because of the fallout(look at what happened to O'Meara and Duval when they dared suggest players get a piece of the massive money coming in), but "playing for the USA" is not the biggest reason they want to play.  It works out nicely and plays well in the media, but it's not the motivation it's made out to be.  

 

 

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Yeah, a player's agent would go ballistic if a player declined a Ryder Cup spot. It's all about increasing the name value, endorsements, exposure and appearance/speaking money, etc. You make more money losing in the Ryder Cup than not showing up.

 

The Olympics for golf doesn't have that value. It's something to show your mother or grandkids.

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On 4/3/2021 at 8:28 PM, golfortennis said:

 

I disagree about hockey relevance.  It became much more relevant when everyone's best players were facing each other.  We can have discussion about whether that is the best forum, but they are far more relevant than the "world championships" when half of Canada's team, and US and Russia as well are playing in NHL playoffs.  

 

The dream team gets looked at the wrong way.  Everyone just sees that in 92 the US won every game by 44 points.  But go back to 1956, and the US college players were just as dominant.  By 1972, the Soviets were at least playing with the US(they did not beat them, but the gap had been closed somewhat).  And in 1988, with some help from the US coach in selecting players, the Soviets do hammer them.  

 

But look at basketball since the Dream Team.  By 2002 you had Argentina winning a world championship, and the US didn't win gold in 2004, and had to make a very concerted effort to win because it is no longer a lock that stepping on the floor = gold medals.  Not to mention, look at the composition of the NBA today.  It's nearly 50% international.  It has spurred far more positive than negative.     

I guess that all depends on which team you’re pulling for , right ?  

 

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It’s important that we decide what’s best for DJ. 

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10 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I guess that all depends on which team you’re pulling for , right ?  

 

You could say that, but sometimes one needs to stop being myopic in the viewpoint.  One of the big problems with the NHL and trying to gain more interest, etc., is that the rules are set by the general managers.  So they aren't looking at rules to improve the product, they are looking at rules to benefit their current team.  

 

As a Canadian, I have have many discussions with Europeans over the hockey world championships being the be all end all, when the best Canadians are playing in the NHL playoffs.  But at the same time, I also have to correct some of the jingoistic Canadians who don't think it's a good thing NHL caliber players are starting to come from non-traditional places(California, Auston Matthews is from Phoenix, etc.)  It's never a bad thing increasing the pool of world class players.

 

  

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