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PayPal Sucks


SPIF
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I bought a 3 wood from a member here this morning.  Like the idiot I am, I fat fingered the amount on PayPal and sent him $4,500 instead of $450.  I didn't recognize the error until after I sent the funds.  I sent him the correct amount on a second transaction, and he refunded the $4,500.  Here's where I want to nuke PP.

 

They allowed him to refund the original $4,500, but charged him a 3% transaction fee, which is apparently now required for all G&S transactions.  There is no way he is going to be out any money for my mistake, so I paid him the $135 fee.  I tried to call PayPal, but after unsuccessfully waiting over an hour to speak with a person I just hung up.  The member who I bought the club from told me that PP said he needed to file paperwork with the PP legal department to try to get his transaction fee back, but otherwise tough luck.

 

I'm so close to saying "screw 'em" to PayPal.  Does anyone else have any experience with this type of situation or any advice on how to 

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Refunding a payment also refunds the fee, or at least used to. So if he refunded you $4,050 from your og payment the fee is returned from that. If he sent you a net new payment then he would have incurred 3% if using goods and services. 

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Just now, casey_0507 said:

Refunding a payment also refunds the fee, or at least used to. So if he refunded you $4,050 from your og payment the fee is returned from that. If he sent you a net new payment then he would have incurred 3% if using goods and services. 

 

That used to be the case.  As of 2 months ago it no longer is.  He hit "refund", and was charged $135, or 3%.  The refund showed up in my account as it should, and he took a hit for doing the only thing he could, even though it was my fault as the buyer.

 

Complete UNSAT on PayPal, and an obvious money grab.

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Just now, SPIF said:

 

That used to be the case.  As of 2 months ago it no longer is.  He hit "refund", and was charged $135, or 3%.  The refund showed up in my account as it should, and he took a hit for doing the only thing he could, even though it was my fault as the buyer.

 

Complete UNSAT on PayPal, and an obvious money grab.


yeahs that's complete BS then

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Wow thanks for posting this. Something to be aware of for sure. 

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6 minutes ago, pingman4 said:

I am the member that sold SPIF the 3 wood. When I realized he PP'd me the wrong amount I immediately PM'd him and refunded the incorrect amount. He had also PP'd me the correct amount. When I looked at my PP account I noticed my balance was short 3% which coincidentally was fee that PP charges. I was thoroughly disgusted so I called PP. I waited 30 minutes to get a real person and explained the situation. He told me starting about 60 days or so ago PP instituted a new fee structure that you are not charged for any transaction that uses their platform, any part of the platform. I asked if this policy was posted clearly and as I suspected it was stuck in the middle of their " annual " policy update buried amongst the other crap they send you that no one has the time or patience to read or understand. I asked to speak to someone and he said that there was no one that could do anything about the fee but if I wanted to I could write their legal department in California, which I will do. 

 

I feel terrible for the buyer and me and this is total BS. The guy on the phone agreed but as he said he is just a cog in the wheel and has no authority to waive or change the fees.

 

This is truly a " BUYER BEWARE " when using any Pay Pal service moving forward. I am absolutely livid and I am also contacting my Senators and Congressmen. ( alot of good this will do I am sure as they are as useless as the services they protect ).

 

Be careful  and don't you dare make a mistake !!!!!!

This is terrible customer service on PP's side.  I would think that the best recourse would be to get the story onto social media and make it go viral somehow.  Not sure how to do that though.  The other idea would be for all of us to close our PP accounts but I suppose that doing such a thing probably would not accomplish anything other then making life for us less convenient...  

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Yup!  PP sucks!  And so does ebay with their new bypass Paypal money transfer direct to bank account methodology for sellers.  My last ebay sale cost me $15% off the top.  Didn't it used to be 10% for ebay and 3% for Paypal?

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I just don’t see how this is even remotely possible.  I mean yes I see if a payment was sent of that amount back basically as a new transaction, but for this to be the case for a “refund” using the “issue refund” just seems wrong and something that couldn’t happen.  I think I’ll test this theory out with a small amount like a few dollars and see what happens.

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31 minutes ago, Cleveland_Rocks said:

I just don’t see how this is even remotely possible.  I mean yes I see if a payment was sent of that amount back basically as a new transaction, but for this to be the case for a “refund” using the “issue refund” just seems wrong and something that couldn’t happen.  I think I’ll test this theory out with a small amount like a few dollars and see what happens.

I’m wondering the same thing.  How many millions of users does PayPal have?  This type of mistake must happen more than we even realize.  If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt either the buyer or seller, PayPal is just taking advantage of a loophole of sorts and nailing its users.

 

I almost can’t believe something like this hasn’t happened and screwed somebody and it hasn’t gone viral the way social media is these days.  

Edited by Bigjim1022
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This would almost certainly be the end of them if this holds.  As a trusted source for almost any transaction now when shopping online, so for instance a buyer makes a return and the seller has to issue a refund and costs the seller money that they no longer received?! Almost guaranteed that the PayPal option would disappear as it makes zero sense for a seller to cost money to give money back for a refund!  I’m at a total loss on this! 

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Wow, this is the first I've heard of this but it's stinks to high hell.  Sorry for both parties involved.  I truly hope that it was a technical glitch or mistake on their end, because if not, it's not looking good for PP long-term.  Think about all the other avenues people used (or still do) use PayPal to complete transactions.  

 

If it gets to the point where the seller eats refund fees, they'll be looking for a new merchant services provider after the first time it occurs.  Which doesn't bode well for PP

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Ohh man kudos to you SPIF for handling this with tact!

 

”Playing with my money is like playing with my emotions!” 
-Big Worm in Friday


Sounds like corporate ethical fading/blindness at its best.

 

They charge you $135 for an honest mistake (congratulations on being human! Btw) they also got paid for the correct $450 transaction...


Im not putting words into paypals mouth but it sounds like according to them if i:

-walked into GolfGalaxy

-grabbed a new Sim2

-paid for it

-then on my way to the car realized i grabbed the wrong flex shaft or loft.

-instantly turned around at that moment and went back into the store.

-They would then charge me ~$15-20 to swap it out? AND after they charged me to swap i would happily buy a few dozen pro-Vs from them??? No... Just NO!

Little bit of irony,
Elon Musk last week made a comment how great companies focus on making a better prod/service for the customer vs all the arbitrary b.s. that goes on in the corporate world.  
Think he is still a big share holder in PP though i doubt he has much involvement. 
 

IMO Paypal fees are too high for the service they provide. Specially since neither one of you are able to speak with someone that can help.

 

BUT on a positive note continued actions such as this create new opportunities for the next guy...

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That’s crazy and a horrible policy change. The previous policy only retained the $0.30 fee but not the 2.9% right?
 

Stated that way now in the FAQ too: https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/if-a-refund-i-send-is-accepted,-are-the-fees-from-the-original-transaction-credited-to-my-account-faq1672

Edited by lookylookitzadam
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Trying to recover those funds they lost from eBay moving to their own payments. It’s a shame it worked out that way. 

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Same thing happened to me with Paypal many months ago... way longer than 2 months ago.  An ebay item I put up for sale was "accidentally" bought and paid for by a buyer who immediately requested a cancel. Not wanting to deal with the hassle of such buyer I promptly refunded them only to find out Paypal had still charged me the 3% fee. 

 

It literally took me like 5 calls and to demand to speak to supervisors to finally get it reversed because I was a "long time customer".  It's outrageous, I can F someone over by sending them unwanted money then getting it back and leaving them with the 3% tab.  LOL

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5 minutes ago, Justmuckit said:

Thanks for bringing this to light, and sorry you're both getting screwed here.

 

From here out, wouldn't the loophole to skirt this policy be to send the "refund" back to the buyer as a F/F transaction? Or am I missing something obvious?

 

Yes, you're missing that Paypal has already taken their 3% the second the first transaction completed.  It was the seller who received the funds in error that is short 3%. The buyer (who erred) made him whole by sending him that 3%.... but it's technically still the seller that is short 3%.....   

 

Refunding normally or sending F/F still doesn't make up the 3% the "seller" is still short.

 

 

Edited by gibbiesmalls
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3 minutes ago, Justmuckit said:

Thanks for bringing this to light, and sorry you're both getting screwed here.

 

From here out, wouldn't the loophole to skirt this policy be to send the "refund" back to the buyer as a F/F transaction? Or am I missing something obvious?

Yes you’re missing the 3% fee that the seller incurred when the money dropped into their account originally.  The only true way, though dangerous would be F/F on each side of the payment.  Buyer to seller and then seller back to buyer if refund is needed, though PayPal has been known to lock accounts with too much F/F transactions.

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16 hours ago, Nessism said:

Yup!  PP sucks!  And so does ebay with their new bypass Paypal money transfer direct to bank account methodology for sellers.  My last ebay sale cost me $15% off the top.  Didn't it used to be 10% for ebay and 3% for Paypal?

Total fees for selling on ebay have changed very little since the new payout approach.  A few years ago, paypal started charging the 2.9% on the total sales price including tax, and ebay has continued this practice.  This is where, if you haven't paid a lot of attention to the details, it may seem like a decent hike has taken place.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

So I ran the test. It was fun.

 

Unfortunately, I didnt check my balance before this foray, but here it is.

 

I had my buddy send me $0.25 goods and services. Paypal ate the the whole thing. (I didnt read the fee structure beforehand. The minimum fee is $0.30) Then I refunded it, and they subtracted the $0.25 from my account. I assume that the balance sheet looks like this: $10 + 0.25 - 0.30 - 0.25 = $9.70.

 

Now I see that there is a reason that they dont show a running balance total on your account like a bank would. They definitely dont want you seeing any of that stuff.

 

That's humorously stupid. My bad for not reading the T&C before and checking my balance beforehand. Either way, they are definitely keeping what they think is their slice of the pie. I'm out, no mas PayPal for me.

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2 minutes ago, blink3665 said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

So I ran the test. It was fun.

 

Unfortunately, I didnt check my balance before this foray, but here it is.

 

I had my buddy send me $0.25 goods and services. Paypal ate the the whole thing. (I didnt read the fee structure beforehand. The minimum fee is $0.30) Then I refunded it, and they subtracted the $0.25 from my account. I assume that the balance sheet looks like this: $10 + 0.25 - 0.30 - 0.25 = $9.70.

 

Now I see that there is a reason that they dont show a running balance total on your account like a bank would. They definitely dont want you seeing any of that stuff.

 

That's humorously stupid. My bad for not reading the T&C before and checking my balance beforehand. Either way, they are definitely keeping what they think is their slice of the pie. I'm out, no mas PayPal for me.

Keep in mind that paypal owns venmo when you look for alternatives.  Just started using Cash app, it's pretty good so far. 

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So now the next hurdle, the mods!  How do we get the mods to allow us to use alternate methods in our BST ads without removal?  It clearly states they will remove ads that push for alternatives other then PayPal goods/services.

 

I’m gonna be honest, I’m not keen on using PayPal at all now due to this issue and would actively push against.  Yes transactions should be fine if described correctly and honest seller, but an instance like this occurs or an issue with a buyer comes up now the seller is screwed!

Edited by Cleveland_Rocks
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9 minutes ago, Cleveland_Rocks said:

So now the next hurdle, the mods!  How do we get the mods to allow us to use alternate methods in our BST ads without removal?  It clearly states they will remove ads that push for alternatives other then PayPal goods/services.

 

I’m gonna be honest, I’m not keen on using PayPal at all now due to this issue and would actively push against.  Yes transactions should be fine if described correctly and honest seller, but an instance like this occurs or an issue with a buyer comes up now the seller is screwed!

You won't have any luck there, it's the only service that has any sort of buyer protection and the mods are not going to want to deal with countless deals gone bad if they let scammers use other methods of payment

 

The lesson here is Paypal is a necessary evil, double check how many zeros you add to your payment

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