Where do I Begin?

[FreeWilly613]

 

 

I have been struggling with an unplayable slice with the driver,  even when I let up on my power its still all over.  

 

I have filmed myself for the first time and saw how ugly my swing is.  I'm new to golf and am looking to get lessons when this season starts but I would like a starting point to work on till i see an instructor.  I have been comparing to some pro swings to get an idea but I don't want to get too far down the wrong road.  Here are my thoughts and I look forward to yours.  Thanks golfwrx

 

- The simulator I've been practicing on shows I often have an open clubface and swing Outside-In,  My current swing thoughts are to get my arms back and up on the back swing and to initiate my downswing with my hips/torso.  Aside from that im not sure where to even begin.

 

 

 

Driver swing ex.mov

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by FreeWilly613
embed

[highpro]

With a slice you should always begin with the face. Start by flattening your right wrist/ bending your left backward as much as you can through impact.  You need to feel like the back of your right hand is looking up to the sky at the top of your swing.  This will shorten your swing, don’t worry you’ll hit it much further.

[FreeWilly613]

Interesting thought laneholt, I'll try for the "inside quadrant"  I'm not concerned about hooking, it's already unplayable I would prefer knowing I'm atleast working in the right direction.  

 

Highpro can I assume your referring to my hands as a lefty?.  I've never paid much attention to my hands after I grip the club.  I'll try this out thanks 

[highpro]

I dare you to make your wrists look like this:   (I doubt you’ll be able to but the closer you get the less likely you are to slice it) 

[uitar9]

Something really helped me was to practice very slo motion swings with no ball.

 

Discovered that with my swing and body type, once I bring the club face back to the start point, club face was open. 

 

Started to experiment with club face position at address, not changing anything about my set up. Just starting with club face more closed...turns out...what I see as open or closed at address is complete shite.

 

Experimented at the range until I got the club face to a point that created a baby fade.

 

For me, that was less complicated than adding 5 swing changes/thoughts.

[FreeWilly613]

UPDATE:

Forgot my Gopro to record my practice lastnight on the sim, however I played around with what was suggested.  With the club in hand I realize the difference my wrist/hand position affected the club face position.  Bringing my right hand back like suggested was brilliant, however it will need loads more work as I can barely half swing and often miss the ball lol.  

 

Attempting to hit the "inside quadrant" greatly reduced my outside 

-in angle as per the sim measurement. However with tbe open club face just cause me to smack it way father left lol  

 

It is clear to me if I can work these into muscle memory it will be a huge improvement.  I'll put in some hours this week before my next tee time thanks  everyone.  Stay tuned for tbe next update.

[nikeblades00]

The first thing I would try before changing any thing else is try to 'feel' your back facing the target as long as possible in the downswing. That should help your club path tremendously. 

[FreeWilly613]

SO I have been putting in some work, I'm still struggling with clubface being open on impact, and the outside-Inside swing path.  Towards the end of my last practice session I took a bit of a step back from the ball almost "Reaching" out at address.   This felt very awkward however i was easily and consistently hitting from the inside albeit sometimes a bit too much but I'm wondering if this could be a step in the right direction (Pun intended).  My PW-6Iron im very happy with my accuracy/contact and I am now able to pull out my 4H and 3W without topping it.  But the ugly unplayable slice is still lurking in the 3W and driver.  see below for a few more videos on my driver swing and thanks for the great feedback

 

This was prior to stepping back from the ball

 

This was after Stepping back and exaggerating the reaching feeling

And this was my first face on video:

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by FreeWilly613

[TheDeanAbides]

On 3/17/2021 at 1:38 PM, laneholt said:

F,

  DJ puts his wrist in this position at the top of his BS and keeps them in this position during his entire DS . This keeps his shots from having the slightest chance to hook or pull left . That is why he fades his shots and sometimes they fade left to right more than he wanted .

   I never use the phrase ," GRIP THE CLUB " when I teach . Nasty thing to say . Voodoo  . The rubber grip attached to the end of the shaft is made to simply - HOLD ONTO . The wrist are just free -swinging hinges on the ends of our arms which allow our DOMINANT HANDS to rotate at many different directions / angles . The HANDS and WRIST possess no power to propel any object by themselves.      

 

    

DJ used to play a draw. He had the same grip. 

[BraxtonFullerton]

Yikes dude. Watch that last video and just watch where your right ear is at the start of the swing. Then watch where your head goes after that. You're sliding; you will have next to no face control with that move. Work on being more of a corkscrew with your torso than moving yourself around with your legs.

 

Second thing. Keep that lead-arm locked in. You are wrapping it around your head and that is doing even more to lose face control with your swing. Keep that front arm locked out and straight.

 

Third thing. Pause your videos (all of them) at the very top of your backswing right as you run out of flexibility. Then watch what you're doing to initiate your downswing. You're opening your shoulders and bringing your arms over the top. So on top of the open clubface you have a slice promoting path to boot.


Practice bringing your hands down to your hips while maintaining your shut shoulders. Go from the start to the top, pause, then bring your hands down to your back-hip. That's the sensation you want. Get that down and then start completing the swing and opening your shoulders/hips and using that to build your speed, instead of your arms.

Edited March 26, 2021 by BraxtonFullerton

[highpro]

Yeah, no, seriously though you need to do the thing with the wrists. 

[Valtiel]

I agree with Braxton here, and I think the thing to focus on here is "less" of pretty much everything. You're throwing your hands and your body around like a ragdoll in all sorts of unnecessary and excessive ways that will only create consistency nightmares for you. 



^^This is one of those nightmares in that you have flung the clubhead miles across the line and your wrists are totally broken down. Your bottom (left) hand should be flexed back more like you're holding a plate of food like a server, and your top (right) hand should be fairly flat, and we can see that is completely reversed here. 



This is the other nightmare, you have slid the entire width of your head backwards off the ball and your right hip is now occupying the space that your left hip started on. Even someone like Seve Ballasteros in his wildest driving days didn't even move half this much. 

To be blunt, all of this needs to change drastically if you are to find any consistency. Since you have the ability to take and upload video, compare some of your positions to various pros to see where the differences are. 

[TheDeanAbides]

I can't see a solution that doesn't involve a face-to-face with a good pro. You're moving around all over the place like you're dancing, and change to an effective swing is going to feel so strange to you that without real time feedback I feel that you'll probably slip back into these habits really quickly. 

[FreeWilly613]

This is great, I need the honest feedback.  I have been speaking with a pro and will be doing lessons this season.  I'll have my training buddy keep an eye on these things in the mean time.

 

I had intended on breaking down and rebuilding my swing but can't do it alone with no knowledge.  

 

My plan in the interim is to focus on the backswing and hit a few 1000 balls with these tips as the main focus. 

 

I am hoping the pro I am going to work with is willing and knowledgeable enough to make big changes.

Edited March 27, 2021 by FreeWilly613

[TheDeanAbides]

48 minutes ago, FreeWilly613 said:

This is great, I need the honest feedback.  I have been speaking with a pro and will be doing lessons this season.  I'll have my training buddy keep an eye on these things in the mean time.

 

I had intended on breaking down and rebuilding my swing but can't do it alone with no knowledge.  

 

My plan in the interim is to focus on the backswing and hit a few 1000 balls with these tips as the main focus. 

 

I am hoping the pro I am going to work with is willing and knowledgeable enough to make big changes.

Don't hit a few thousand more balls without real feedback - it'll do more harm than good. 

[Valtiel]

10 hours ago, laneholt said:

Valtiel,

 

      Would you suggest that that this player shouldn’t swing like one of the best and longest ball strikers and Open Winners / Champions Senior Tour  Winners , John Daly ? 

Yes, I would suggest he not swing that way because he is swinging nothing like John Daly. The only similarities are the club being across the line. Daly did not stall his shoulder turn and breakdown his wrists to get to that position, and he did not shift laterally any significant amount in the process. He also employed his own set of unique compensations to get to a good impact position that likely developed organically from swinging this way since childhood. 

[aenemated]

On 3/27/2021 at 3:31 PM, Valtiel said:

Yes, I would suggest he not swing that way because he is swinging nothing like John Daly. The only similarities are the club being across the line. Daly did not stall his shoulder turn and breakdown his wrists to get to that position, and he did not shift laterally any significant amount in the process. He also employed his own set of unique compensations to get to a good impact position that likely developed organically from swinging this way since childhood. 

 

And not only that but literally no one should try to swing even remotely like John Daly ... except John Daly. Not even Little John Daly swings like John Daly ... and he has the best teacher to teach how to swing like John Daly. That being his dad ... John Daly. 

 

One of my favorite things I like to remember that I think Monte has noted often ... a "thing" that works for 1 guy out of a million is not a thing you'll probably have success with. 

[YouDaHamHider]

On 3/27/2021 at 11:43 AM, laneholt said:

Valtiel,

 

      Would you suggest that that this player shouldn’t swing like one of the best and longest ball strikers and Open Winners / Champions Senior Tour  Winners , John Daly ? 

Lane, you're just being silly now. Please see the great JD's body movement from address to top. Maybe moved an inch or two at most. 

[FreeWilly613]

Ok I so I'm sliding all over the place.  My last few sessions I've focused on trying to keep my lead arm locked out.  Immediately I noticed a complete loss of power which is fine, is it safe to assume this is because I'm not using any hip/torso drive in my swing?  Throughout the practice it became easier to keep locked out but ill need some time till I don't have to think about it anymore, I would like to get my arms figured out a bit before I go for help. Or should I bother?

 

What should I expect a pro to do, offer compensation adjustments to work with "my swing"  or break it down to a "fundamental basic" if that even exists.  Personally I would like to fix everything before the bad habits become deeply ingrained.  But where do you even begin?  With the sliding, the arms, the wrists etc.  

 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by FreeWilly613

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, FreeWilly613 said:

Ok I so I'm sliding all over the place.  My last few sessions I've focused on trying to keep my lead arm locked out.  Immediately I noticed a complete loss of power which is fine, is it safe to assume this is because I'm not using any hip/torso drive in my swing?  Throughout the practice it became easier to keep locked out but ill need some time till I don't have to think about it anymore, I would like to get my arms figured out a bit before I go for help. Or should I bother?

 

What should I expect a pro to do, offer compensation adjustments to work with "my swing"  or break it down to a "fundamental basic" if that even exists.  Personally I would like to fix everything before the bad habits become deeply ingrained.  But where do you even begin?  With the sliding, the arms, the wrists etc.  

 

 

Don't lock your left arm. This is why you need lessons because you're misinterpreting what you need to do and you're going to end up in a worse mess. Never lock out anything in the swing. 

[BraxtonFullerton]

Sorry, I should've been more specific. I meant locked out as in you're wrapping your arms around your shoulders/head at the top of your swing. Keep your front arm "locked out" is more to keep your hands from crossing in front of your shoulder blade. To do that, you should be keeping your hands lower and further away from your head.

 

Here's Jordan:

 

Notice his front arm is still bent but his hands still reside on the safe side of his shoulders. Then look at the club-head delivery. Hands first, the head drops down and becomes level with his trailing arm, shoulders still shut. Then the magic happens and the torque he's now built up in his hips and core starts to uncoil and open.

Here's your OG swing:


Look at your shoulders and your hands and your head dip as you make contact. It's the only way you can deliver the club to the ball is to compensate.

If you check out your "standing further back" swing, you'll see you shallow the club much better, camera angle isn't great though. Invest in a cheap tripod!
 

Edited April 1, 2021 by BraxtonFullerton

[tthomasgolfer605]

Doesn't matter how much you swing from in to out with the way you hold the club. All the faults described stem from your lead hand. Turn it to your left even if it feels awful and watch the clubface either get less open or square. Put the ball further forward as well. You basically give your self more time to square it up without having to think so much.

[TheDeanAbides]

Please ignore Lane - your backswing is not fine. It has some elements that a good swing contains, but this picture below shows what needs to be worked on. Look at your left knee. You've added flex when you need to be losing it. This is because your hips are turning level instead of correctly. Your right foot has rolled over which shouldn't be possible with a correct pivot. The right arm has broken down too. 

 

I would consider either an online lesson with Monte or picking up his No Turn Cast series and seeing if you can make some changes yourself. Also check out his free fundamentals video series to get you off to a sound start. 

 

It's up to you, but if an instructor or well-meaning dude on the internet ever says "backswing doesn't matter" run for the hills. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by TheDeanAbides

[TheDeanAbides]

@FreeWilly613 I'm sorry that your thread has been another in this section of the forum that's been hijacked by this type of discussion with Lane. I won't respond to him again here, but will focus on helping you to find a way to play golf that's simple, demystified and repeatable. That's why I recommended Monte. Take a look at the NTC thread and decide for yourself. 

[FreeWilly613]

It's been really helpful, if anything it shows how many differing opinions there are out there.  Gives me confidence and more ability to understand what my instructor is trying to do.  I'll look for the fundamental videos and see where that takes me.  Thanks everyone I will keep updating my progress from my practice sessions

[phizzy30]

On 3/16/2021 at 7:08 AM, FreeWilly613 said:

Interesting thought laneholt, I'll try for the "inside quadrant"  I'm not concerned about hooking, it's already unplayable I would prefer knowing I'm atleast working in the right direction.  

 

Highpro can I assume your referring to my hands as a lefty?.  I've never paid much attention to my hands after I grip the club.  I'll try this out thanks 

My first teaching pro taught me how important it was to hit the inside quadrant.  It helped reinforce the slightly in to out swing I currently have.  I'm a firm believer that once you can hit the inside of the ball consistently, your handicap will drop and it's easier to learn how to hit the outer quadrant and learn to hit the fade on command.  Remember this.  An inside out swing path is unnatural movement for the human body.  The outside in swing path is what our bodies want to do as it's much more natural and comfortable. 

[TheDeanAbides]

24 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

My first teaching pro taught me how important it was to hit the inside quadrant.  It helped reinforce the slightly in to out swing I currently have.  I'm a firm believer that once you can hit the inside of the ball consistently, your handicap will drop and it's easier to learn how to hit the outer quadrant and learn to hit the fade on command.  Remember this.  An inside out swing path is unnatural movement for the human body.  The outside in swing path is what our bodies want to do as it's much more natural and comfortable. 

Problem with that is that most players will accomplish that inside quadrant hit by dropping the shoulders and getting stuck which makes their release so timing dependent. 

 

It's far better to work on the correct motion and let that determine strike. Chasing from the ball backwards will almost always create compensations. 

[phizzy30]

10 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Problem with that is that most players will accomplish that inside quadrant hit by dropping the shoulders and getting stuck which makes their release so timing dependent. 

 

It's far better to work on the correct motion and let that determine strike. Chasing from the ball backwards will almost always create compensations. 

True.  The best players in the world have slightly in to out or out to in swing paths.  I just believe that it's far easier to first learn the harder and more unnatural movement of inside out rather than the opposite then go from there.  I'm not suggesting to the OP to learn to swing to an extreme either way though. 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by phizzy30

[TheDeanAbides]

14 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

True.  The best players in the world have slightly in to out or out to in swing paths.  I just believe that it's far easier to first learn the harder and more unnatural movement of inside out rather than the opposite then go from there.  I'm not suggesting to the OP to learn to swing to an extreme either way though. 

 

That's fair enough. I have no issue with learning how to hit from the inside - far from it - but it has to be done correctly or it can often become like a dragon chasing its tail. 

[FreeWilly613]

13 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

That's fair enough. I have no issue with learning how to hit from the inside - far from it - but it has to be done correctly or it can often become like a dragon chasing its tail. 

Exactly what I'm trying to figure out, where is the starting point.  Having thought/obsessing over this for the last bit it does sound like it would be functionally easier to tweak the backswing and go from there.  My first lesson is booked 2 weeks from now when I get back from the north.   No golf out this far, putting practice is all I got.