2021 Irons/Wedges for Sweepers

[babyfade]

21 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I play to a 4 and sweep the ball with 2i to 8i, inside out.  I hit the ball straight with a low-mid trajectory, and work it left or right as needed.  I can adjust if I need a high trajectory but seldom do that because I play in a fair amount of wind.  From 9i-LW I scrap the turf to the roots, course that depends on the composition of the turf.  My scraps are noticeably shallow not like deep divots - diggers enjoy. 😛

 

Anyway, back in 2002 while having custom MacGregor blades made for me by MacGregor, their questioning made certain aspects of my game clear to me.  The resulting irons helped improve my ball striking and were for a sweeper.  Ever since my irons have been set up similarly.

 

Low bounce, sharp leading edge, minimal camber and narrow soles, short blade heads heel to toe.  My 620MBs & CB long irons 2-4i have 0-1' of bounce, the rest of my blades are considered low traditional specs.  Had some leading edges shaved to make them a tad sharper.

 

The divot of my 52/8' F and 58/8' M is about the same as PW.   Both work really well for me, as I learned my wedge game with 2'-5' progressive bounce wedges which required me to open the face various degrees to more bounce...old school.

 

Too much of a flat lie angle means the heel is higher than the toe.  

 

Thanks, thats also very helpful.

 

I just still don't get the theory behind lie angle.

 

You say too much of a flat lie angle means the heel is higher than the toe. But wouldn't I just lower my hands to get them on the same level again?

 

And would you not recommend flattening the lie angle to a swing-style like ours? Like I have written in my last post, I tend to shank it now and then.

 

Maybe I should have higher hands to fight my tendencies? Instead of wanting even lower hands to match my swing?

 

I will have a fitting in a week. The thing is that we don't have good fitters here normally. They just want to sell you a set.

Edited March 19, 2021 by babyfade

[Ripken08]

5 hours ago, RacineBoxer said:

 

I think the size of the heads on the pro's are the same as the regular hot metal, just less offset and a thinner sole.

 

Also, for a 20+ handicap who hits his hybrid well, you might want to put the ego to the side a bit and get multiple hybrids, maybe 3-4-5, maybe even a 6. I play to a 4 handicap and sometimes people look at me a little weird because I play Ping G400 irons. Well, I like the big chunky soles and I'm really just trying to hit the ball high and straight. If I have 150 or 190 yards I'm not trying to flight it down, or work it right to left, or work it back to a back right pin... no... I'm trying to hit my standard stock shot high and straight towards the middle of the green, every time. And the G400's are great for high and straight. You know what else goes high and straight? Hybrids.

 

P.S. new golf clubs almost certainly won't help your scores. I'd figure out a way to add 3-4 more hours of practice to your weekly routine if you want to shoot lower scores. Remember- high and straight, all you need 🙂 

I replied to his question above.  Soles on the HMPs are not thinner.  They are same heads sans offset and maybe a smidge topline.

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, babyfade said:

 

Thanks, thats also very helpful.

 

I just still don't get the theory behind lie angle.

 

You say too much of a flat lie angle means the heel is higher than the toe. But wouldn't I just lower my hands to get them on the same level again?

 

And would you not recommend flattening the lie angle to a swing-style like ours? Like I have written in my last post, I tend to shank it now and then.

 

Maybe I should have higher hands to fight my tendencies? Instead of wanting even lower hands to match my swing?

 

I will have a fitting in a week. The thing is that we don't have good fitters here normally. They just want to sell you a set.

Any good amateur should be able to adapt to any club and hit it.   So, "yes" you can adapt by lowering your hands.  However, purposely adjusting to a club that isn't fit to you, is not the best way to improve your game or play golf. 

 

I can adapt to offset, even wrong lie angles but doing so needs focus.  For example, back in early 2005 I bought 2-PW set of Titleist 735CM irons.  Titleists first attempt at blending.  Long irons 2i-5i had really pronounced CB's and more offset than shallower CB mid-irons or short MB blades.  If I wanted to hit a draw or fade 4i or 3i, it took a great deal of adjustment and focus away from my natural way of focusing on my shot.  I had hoped to overcome that but after about 8-9mons realized it was affecting my game, early 2006 I bought original Callaway X-Forged and played them till 2015.

 

I just want to grab my club and focus on the shot that's needed.  Because I can adapt to make something work doesn't make it natural. 

 

Side note: I was born a lefty, but ambidextrous.  In my youth, as my shooting skills developed I learned to shoot both sides, with rifle and handgun.  However, Right handed become more natural for shooter rifle design, so all practice was right-handed.  And I wore my holster on my left hip for cross draw using right hand.  If someone threw me my rifle and I had to quickly drop and shoot at a 500-meter target, without thinking I would do it right-handed.  Even though I could make the shot left-handed.  To be good at something, it's about what feels natural.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[rondre3000]

5 hours ago, Ripken08 said:

I replied to his question above.  Soles on the HMPs are not thinner.  They are same heads sans offset and maybe a smidge topline.

At PW they are essentially the same, but as you go up the set they are definitely thinner on the soles and topline of the HMP vs HM. Not to mention HMPs are more compact heel to toe.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by rondre3000

[jgferr]

Swinging flat, or upright, has little to do with drawing/fading a golf shot; best explanation is Adam Young, I cannot remember which video/article exactly but Google is our friend here, once again. 

[Htk084]

Why are I210’s good for sweepers?  Don’t they have a lot of bounce?  (And all pings)

[Leathernecks]

I think the flatter vs upright and its affect on ball flight has more to do with impact than changing your swing to match the lie angle.  If the sole of your irons are hitting the ground on the center of the sole, I wouldn't change anything.  If the heal is touching first, the heal will slow down at impact causing the toe to flip over and promote a draw/hook, so I would recommend going flatter in that scenario.  Opposite for if your toe is touching the ground first.  The toe will slow down at impact with the ground causing the face to stay open and hanging everything out to the right.  I would go more upright in this scenario.

[Cptwiggly]

Sweeper here. I have played Mizuno irons for most of my life. Got to where I didn’t play much for 5 years and when I got back into it I didn’t think I was good enough to keep playing the MP59 that I had been using. Bought some Srixon 585s. The sole definitely didn’t work for me. I tried to hit them for the last couple years. It even made me adjust me swing to become steeper in order to just make center contact. Everything was on the toe it felt like. I’ve been hitting balls about 4 times a week for the last few months and just couldn’t get any groove going. Just got a set of MP20 MMCs 3 days ago. The smaller faces and thinner soles are so refreshing to look at. It actually looks more forgiving to me than the chunky Srixons. I’ve hit balls the last 2 days and I don’t think I have ever hit the ball so pure. Taking them on the course today. 
 

My point is that if the Mizunos are working for you stay with Mizuno. Go MMC if you want a little more forgiveness and distance. Apex Pros were a contender for me and I hit them well indoors but I knew Mizuno and that’s what I went with. 

[Leathernecks]

I agree with Cptwiggly.  I played MP 33's through college and after.  When work started getting in the way of my golf, I switched to some players distance cavity backs.  While they were easier to hit, I got a lot more unusual flyers than I was used to.  I went back to Mizuno with the MP18 MMC's a couple years ago, and I'm not switching for a long time.  They have a good look to them like I was used to but with a little more help on mishits and a lot more consistency with distances. 

[gibbyfan]

I am a sweeper too (although trying get a little steeper) and I didn't find the Srixons useful for me. Loved the feel, but didn't like the v sole. Like others have posted, I like irons that have thinner soles or ones that might have more trailing edge relief. Blades for example have always been pretty easy to hit. Blades typically have a little less bounce and sharper leading edge.  As a sweeper I found the pings i210 pretty easy to hit, just didn't care for the size. I have Callaway Apex Pro 19 and those are pretty easy to hit as well. Slightly more camber than the pings. Presently I play t100. I find them pretty good mix of performance, tech, and easy to hit in the long irons. 

[BogeyParBogey]

On 3/20/2021 at 2:22 AM, Htk084 said:

Why are I210’s good for sweepers?  Don’t they have a lot of bounce?  (And all pings)

 

I am not so sure that Pings are great for sweepers.  G series have very wide soles and lots of bounce.  Recent i series have high vertical CGs.  I've used G15s for most of my time golfing and think the wide soles fight my natural shot. Your mileage may vary.

 

Dave

[ScottHutch2]

I am a fellow sweeper. Played Srixon Z585 for a while, but the sole did not work for me. I switched into P770/P7MC and they have been great to this point. If you are looking for distance as well, P770 is a fun club man. Distance and spin numbers im getting have been outstanding. To be fair, I have not hit the new Apex. Line was not out when I was in buying mode.

[Jifmoli]

Interesting, I hardly make a divot myself but I do play Srixons (Z355) which have the V-sole. Works fine for me, very much like the clubs. Actually, the V-sole is made to prevent digging - wouldn't that aid sweeping?

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Jifmoli
forgot to add text

[Lobber]

As a fellow sweeper I have been following this thread and previously commented about my success with Apex Pro 21s.  I have also been gaming a combo set of ZX5/7s and having no issues with turf interaction.  I think both work very well

[Drivingrangehero]

On 3/20/2021 at 3:48 PM, Cptwiggly said:

Sweeper here. I have played Mizuno irons for most of my life. Got to where I didn’t play much for 5 years and when I got back into it I didn’t think I was good enough to keep playing the MP59 that I had been using. Bought some Srixon 585s. The sole definitely didn’t work for me. I tried to hit them for the last couple years. It even made me adjust me swing to become steeper in order to just make center contact.

I did much the same. 
*sweeper*
I had a long hiatus away from golf due to injury, then kids. I sold my MP-67’s with X100’s because I wanted something more forgiving and easier to swing then the X100’s. I ended up with Titleist 716 T-MBs with XP115’s in them. I found the TMB’s harder to hit then my blades. I felt like I had to dig into every club. I noticed that when I was hitting abbreviated follow through punch shots, I’d hit them flush with the steeper descent and more forward shaft lean, so I ended up adjusting to them, but it took a while. I finally got fed up, knowing i could do better, so I went to get fit. I ended up in Mizuno HMB’s, but I liked the MMC’s as well.
 

Something about the leading edge and sole design in Mizuno’s ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.  I warmed up hitting what was on the shelf which was a 921 HMP and hit it better than my TMB’s. 

I don’t know how the Maltby  playability factor works, but there is almost no discernible difference between Titleist 716TMB and the Mizuno MP 20 HMB. They must not factor in sole design, because I find these miles easier to hit in the TMB‘s 

 

 

There are definitely sets that lend them self to better ball striking for sweepers and some for diggers. 
 

.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Drivingrangehero
.

[BallerNate]

Very interesting comments on the ZX5’s and ZX7’s not fitting sweepers.

 

I am a sweeper also and try to take almost no divots, but the Zipcore wedges have been awesome for me, and I was fitted for ZX5’s with KBS Tour 120’s and just waiting for them to be delivered.

 

The ZX5 and Zipcore were by far my favourite irons and wedges that I’ve tried of all the 2021 products, so not sure why the V-sole wouldn’t work for sweepers...

[Reds]

@BallerNate Did you get fitted for the zx5s on grass or was it on mats? Turf interaction is huge for irons and thats why I will not be fit for irons on mats. Ive found that since Im a sweeper the sole on Mizuno irons fits my swing well

[Drivingrangehero]

1 hour ago, BallerNate said:

Very interesting comments on the ZX5’s and ZX7’s not fitting sweepers.

 

I am a sweeper also and try to take almost no divots, but the Zipcore wedges have been awesome for me, and I was fitted for ZX5’s with KBS Tour 120’s and just waiting for them to be delivered.

 

The ZX5 and Zipcore were by far my favourite irons and wedges that I’ve tried of all the 2021 products, so not sure why the V-sole wouldn’t work for sweepers...

I’m sure some sweepers that play them will chime in. It may be something you can find from a past thread. I want to say I’ve seen something on the v-sole in the past 6-8 months or so. It’s not a box every sweeper will fit into. You may get along with V-soles, some sweepers love them, many diggers swear by them. 
 

If your actively trying to NOT take a divot, perhaps you’re somewhere between sweeper and digger¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

I don’t often break to much ground with anything above 7 iron. I will take a shallow divot with my 7 iron if I try to play a cut, and I generally come in steeper progressively with my 8-9-P-...etc, 

 

I played in wet conditions a few years back and hit a PW that I wanted to put a lot of spin on from a side hill lie with the ball above my feet,  the 8 inch long divot 3-1/2 inch wide landed on my left shoulder. I thought it was an animal and jumped away scared to death while trying to brush it off, heart pounding 😂  great shot though 🤔🏌️‍♂️⛳️

[toddmanley]

13 hours ago, ScottHutch2 said:

I am a fellow sweeper. Played Srixon Z585 for a while, but the sole did not work for me. I switched into P770/P7MC and they have been great to this point. If you are looking for distance as well, P770 is a fun club man. Distance and spin numbers im getting have been outstanding. To be fair, I have not hit the new Apex. Line was not out when I was in buying mode.

 

I made the switch to the Apex Pro's after playing Mizuno blades for the last 20 years (33, 60, 18, 20 HMB - but actively playing the 18's for the past 16 months).  During my fit it came down to the Apex Pro's versus the P770.  I put away the HMB's for the same reason why the P770's didn't work for me - distance control and consistency.  My trackman data showed an increased tendency of the P770's to get a little jumpy and send flyers about 5-7 yards farther than I wanted.  The Apex Pro's were more consistent in their dispersion.  

 

Yesterday was the maiden voyage for the Apex Pro's.  I had them bent 1* weak to match the MP-18's and all other specs were the same (lie, +1.5" overlength, grips).  I felt the turf interation was nearly identical to my Mizuno's and the ability to hit a variety of shots on a windy day was welcomed.  Did have some positive surprises with fresh grooves that kept me out of trouble! 

Edited March 22, 2021 by toddmanley

[Drivingrangehero]

22 minutes ago, toddmanley said:

 

I made the switch to the Apex Pro's after playing Mizuno blades for the last 20 years (33, 60, 18, 20 HMB - but actively playing the 18's for the past 16 months).  During my fit it came down to the Apex Pro's versus the P770.  I put away the HMB's for the same reason why the P770's didn't work for me - distance control and consistency.  My trackman data showed an increased tendency of the P770's to get a little jumpy and send flyers about 5-7 yards farther than I wanted.  The Apex Pro's were more consistent in their dispersion.  

 

Yesterday was the maiden voyage for the Apex Pro's.  I had them bent 1* weak to match the MP-18's and all other specs were the same (lie, +1.5" overlength, grips).  I felt the turf interation was nearly identical to my Mizuno's and the ability to hit a variety of shots on a windy day was welcomed.  Did have some positive surprises with fresh grooves that kept me out of trouble! 

 
Callaway has many offerings that seem to be a sweeper fan favorite for years I’ve noticed. My best friend has been in that camp since 05’ and he is a sweeper/picker! 

[BallerNate]

3 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

I’m sure some sweepers that play them will chime in. It may be something you can find from a past thread. I want to say I’ve seen something on the v-sole in the past 6-8 months or so. It’s not a box every sweeper will fit into. You may get along with V-soles, some sweepers love them, many diggers swear by them. 
 

If your actively trying to NOT take a divot, perhaps you’re somewhere between sweeper and digger¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

I don’t often break to much ground with anything above 7 iron. I will take a shallow divot with my 7 iron if I try to play a cut, and I generally come in steeper progressively with my 8-9-P-...etc, 

 

I played in wet conditions a few years back and hit a PW that I wanted to put a lot of spin on from a side hill lie with the ball above my feet,  the 8 inch long divot 3-1/2 inch wide landed on my left shoulder. I thought it was an animal and jumped away scared to death while trying to brush it off, heart pounding 😂  great shot though 🤔🏌️‍♂️⛳️

Haha...great story!

 

Honestly, I don't even know how to take a proper divot. Any time my club doesn't sweep, I end up digging up huge chunks of turf and the ball goes nowhere.

[BallerNate]

3 hours ago, Reds said:

@BallerNate Did you get fitted for the zx5s on grass or was it on mats? Turf interaction is huge for irons and thats why I will not be fit for irons on mats. Ive found that since Im a sweeper the sole on Mizuno irons fits my swing well

Good point. I was fitted on mats, and have only been hitting off mats all Winter.

 

I’ll definitely admit that I’m concerned about everyone who’s said the V-soles don’t work well for sweepers, and I’ve definitely had some difficulty with my Zipcores in the 3 wet Spring rounds that I’ve played so far.

[Reds]

31 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

Good point. I was fitted on mats, and have only been hitting off mats all Winter.

 

I’ll definitely admit that I’m concerned about everyone who’s said the V-soles don’t work well for sweepers, and I’ve definitely had some difficulty with my Zipcores in the 3 wet Spring rounds that I’ve played so far.

You should be fine. The Srixons are great irons. Theres plenty sweepers out there that play their irons

[Drivingrangehero]

38 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

Haha...great story!

 

Honestly, I don't even know how to take a proper divot. Any time my club doesn't sweep, I end up digging up huge chunks of turf and the ball goes nowhere.

Fat? I haven’t seen that shot in many moons. My misses are always low on the face or thin.
 

With that being said, the V-Sole is great for those who miss fat and dig turf. If you are going to hit the turf first, then the sole isn’t going to stop that, but the V-sole may not hurt you as much. 
 

Hope this helps! 
 

 

 

[BallerNate]

1 hour ago, Drivingrangehero said:

Fat? I haven’t seen that shot in many moons. My misses are always low on the face or thin.
 

With that being said, the V-Sole is great for those who miss fat and dig turf. If you are going to hit the turf first, then the sole isn’t going to stop that, but the V-sole may not hurt you as much. 
 

Hope this helps! 
 

 

 

Thanks, that definitely helps!

 

Yeah exactly, when I try to take a divot, I end up hitting the shot fat and taking out huge chunks of turf. I’m 6’7, and now that I’ve had a fitting I understand that I’ve been playing clubs that have been too short and flat as long as I’ve been playing golf.

 

For sure having clubs and shafts that fit me properly will make a huge difference, and hopefully the ZX5’s with KBS Tour 120 shafts will be as good for me outside on the grass as it was in my fitting!

[Drivingrangehero]

14 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

Thanks, that definitely helps!

 

Yeah exactly, when I try to take a divot, I end up hitting the shot fat and taking out huge chunks of turf. I’m 6’7, and now that I’ve had a fitting I understand that I’ve been playing clubs that have been too short and flat as long as I’ve been playing golf.

 

For sure having clubs and shafts that fit me properly will make a huge difference, and hopefully the ZX5’s with KBS Tour 120 shafts will be as good for me outside on the grass as it was in my fitting!

I’m sure they will be great.

 

Many people get low spin numbers on mats that are steep and Srixons are (supposedly) lower spin than most, so if they fit you in those, I’m sure they will be what you need, otherwise they’d have fit you into something higher spin most likely. 
 

 

 

[JermWRX]

I guess I’m the opposite of most answers here. I’m definitely a sweeper. I take no divot. I focus on the back of the ball and that’s where I make contact. A well executed shot for me will just barely bruise the turf. I’ve always done much, much better with wide soles. From the old Ping G clubs, to the Karsten 2014’s, to the GMax. GMax was the best. I thought I would like to try a thinner sole, so I got the i210’s and I hate them. Didn’t care too much for the G710 either, although as I hit them more I’m beginning to come around. Nothing beat my GMax, though. So disappointed that I sold them. Huge mistake

[BallerNate]

10 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

I’m sure they will be great.

 

Many people get low spin numbers on mats that are steep and Srixons are (supposedly) lower spin than most, so if they fit you in those, I’m sure they will be what you need, otherwise they’d have fit you into something higher spin most likely. 
 

 

 

Yeah, can’t wait to get them...they really blew every other 2021 iron out of the water for me during my fitting. They just felt so pure and smooth swinging! 
 

My ideal shaft fit was actually the Project X LS and my fitter actually said I had higher spin numbers with the PX LS and ZX5, which is usually the opposite for most people.
 

But the PX LS shafts are on back order until the Summer for Srixon Canada, so the KBS Tour 120’s got the call as my runner-ups...we’ll see how it goes!

[mootrail]

On 3/18/2021 at 12:42 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Low bounce, sharp leading edge, minimal camber and narrow soles, short blade heads heel to toe.

 

I always wondered why I struck blade like profiles better and now it makes sense.  Chunky iron soles never work for me and now I know why.

 

With our low AOA, we need a club face to stay low and long in the strike zone vs a steeper player who needs more bounce help to exit cleanly.  "Ball first" is a bunch of hooey.  We are going to be brushing before striking without a doubt.

 

This speaks directly to wedge play as I've always gravitated to something low bounce.  Anything 12° and up was always a bust.  Whoever said "bounce is your friend" was off his rocker.

[Drivingrangehero]

11 hours ago, mootrail said:

 

This speaks directly to wedge play as I've always gravitated to something low bounce.  Anything 12° and up was always a bust.  Whoever said "bounce is your friend" was off his roc

I have found the same to be true. 
 

I tried playing a higher bounce sand wedge 13* for bunker play after reading what some on WRX’s were doing. Why? I have know idea, my bunker play is exceptional, so it was unnecessary.

 

I found the 56* @ 13*  to be fine for full swings from the fairway or rough, but easy swings and opening the face was a disaster. Truth be told, it was really nice out of the soft bunker, but the bunkers I end up in out here in

Massachusetts are typically wet and hard unless I’m playing some of the nicer courses. So,  it’s a wash because the low bounce is better on the more firm, wet bunkers which are more common out here. 

 

My wedges are

51*@ 6*

55*@ 7*
59*@7*