Building a TSi4 Mini Driver

[Edwijn]

So, 5 months after my TS2 order came  I’m already at replacing it. Thought I need extra help and carry, well I didn’t...

playing of 1,8 hcp, 5,7 tall, athletic build and 34 years young, I drive a pretty straight driver, my miss is a pull or a heely strike. Getting a tad bit longer shaft in ts2 in 44,5” with extra weight to get the swingweight correct had my driver launching it high and to much spin. The heel misses are bugging the hell out of me, its just to long of a driver. So here I am.

 

played a st190g with atmos 6x black before at 44”, to much shaft by a fraction, sw not optimal at C8

 

solution (if it’s that easy... 😅)

 

TSi4 43,5” build, hopefully a D1-3 swingweight, smaller head of TSi4 should fit the eye better then 460cc driver. I have gone shorter and shorter for each of my clubs in my bag and the improvements is great. So a mini driver seems on paper like a great idea

 

problem:

need to shortened the shaft beyond to my normal 44”, moving strike location further along.

im looking at everything from titleist and can buy of my cousin, 50% cheaper rates. Shaft has to be from titleist and I’m looking at graphite design TP, DI, GP. Other suggestions are welcomed.

 

need a shaft that’s not high in balance point for SW with enough stiffness for a 108-110 swingspeed. But at the same time giving me a d1-3 swingweight.

 

what shaft weight will be optimal since I like my mid 60s to just 70s range. Lighter or heavier from a swingweight perspective and have you guys any relations with a build like this? For reference i Play a 4 wood ts3 with 79g shaft at 41.75”, works great.

 

will the extra weight port of plus 5g make the club even less spinny with the weight forward in this model?

 

what is the relations between loft of a driver as you shortened it? I play a 9-9,5 driver most times. Will a really short build and a low spinning head need a loft crank to 10 as of AoA changes? 

 

Here in Sweden the TSi4 is listed at 8,5-9,5-10,5 instead of even increments. What’s what?

 

got tons of questions, but I rather hear your thoughts, shoot.

 

and for fitting, well we don’t have a great fitter here in Sweden and even if we do, a 43,5” fitting is not possible. So I’ll buy and try this blind, it’s just money, but dont want waste money if I’m not sure it can be good.

 

Swenglish speaking so hopefully you guys understand my questions. Cheers!

[Myherobobhope]

I’m building a short driver, but I think we have different goals... 

 

I happily play a 45+ inch length driver as my main club... I’m a decent driver of the ball, and tend not to get much use out of a three wood.

 

so I’m replacing my three wood with a second driver.

 

43 inch shaft and I’ll toss some lead tape on the head to get the swing weight up. Went with a 12 degree club because I don’t want much run.

 

the goal is a fairway finder that has a limited distance for holes I can hit through the fairway on... it’s a cheap experiment I’m doing with a head I bought for $50.

[Bob M]

2 hours ago, Myherobobhope said:

I’m building a short driver, but I think we have different goals... 

 

I happily play a 45+ inch length driver as my main club... I’m a decent driver of the ball, and tend not to get much use out of a three wood.

 

so I’m replacing my three wood with a second driver.

 

43 inch shaft and I’ll toss some lead tape on the head to get the swing weight up. Went with a 12 degree club because I don’t want much run.

 

the goal is a fairway finder that has a limited distance for holes I can hit through the fairway on... it’s a cheap experiment I’m doing with a head I bought for $50.

 

Curious what you are using for a head?

[Myherobobhope]

7 minutes ago, Bob M said:

 

Curious what you are using for a head?

Adams fast 12... it’s the super light version, which isn’t ideal... I’m going to have to tinker with it a fair amount, but a $50 experiment with the “wrong” head sounded better than a $100 experiment with a better fit.

[MPAndreassi]

I'm experimenting along this road also. I play a TSi3 9* at 44 1/4" or 46" depending on what course I'm playing, then I carry a 4 wood. Some courses in my area the 4 wood is only a tee club, so I'm building a TS2 that'll play in the 42 1/2-43" range. Basically replacing the need for the 4 wood on the courses I don't need to hit it off of the fairway, and I'll pair that with the 46" shaft in my TSi3. 

[hagimihale]

For more than a year now my bag has had 2 drivers and no 3W.  One set up for low fades and the other for high draws, letting me take advantage of doglegs in either direction plus play into or with the wind effectively.  Its been a fun experiment.

 

I gamed a 9.5* TS4 for about a year as my driver. I liked it, but the launch was low and I was leaving some distance on the table regardless of what shaft I put in it (Hzrdus Smoke Black and Diamana DF spent the most time in this head).

 

I recently picked up a 42.5" Diamana 'ahina in 70S (real deal version, not the made for) for about $50.  So I'm testing this combination to use as a 2W. With the lower spin I am probably looking at 240 carry and maybe 270 total assuming dry conditions.  But the club will be pretty straight and stay under the wind.

 

I think you are on the right track.  Add weight to get the swingweight you want.  Assume lower spin and less carry, but probably more consistency off the tee.  

 

Good luck, and let us know how this plays out...

 

 

[eth4and]

On 3/21/2021 at 4:02 AM, Edwijn said:

So, 5 months after my TS2 order came  I’m already at replacing it. Thought I need extra help and carry, well I didn’t...

playing of 1,8 hcp, 5,7 tall, athletic build and 34 years young, I drive a pretty straight driver, my miss is a pull or a heely strike. Getting a tad bit longer shaft in ts2 in 44,5” with extra weight to get the swingweight correct had my driver launching it high and to much spin. The heel misses are bugging the hell out of me, its just to long of a driver. So here I am.

 

played a st190g with atmos 6x black before at 44”, to much shaft by a fraction, sw not optimal at C8

 

solution (if it’s that easy... 😅)

 

TSi4 43,5” build, hopefully a D1-3 swingweight, smaller head of TSi4 should fit the eye better then 460cc driver. I have gone shorter and shorter for each of my clubs in my bag and the improvements is great. So a mini driver seems on paper like a great idea

 

problem:

need to shortened the shaft beyond to my normal 44”, moving strike location further along.

im looking at everything from titleist and can buy of my cousin, 50% cheaper rates. Shaft has to be from titleist and I’m looking at graphite design TP, DI, GP. Other suggestions are welcomed.

 

need a shaft that’s not high in balance point for SW with enough stiffness for a 108-110 swingspeed. But at the same time giving me a d1-3 swingweight.

 

what shaft weight will be optimal since I like my mid 60s to just 70s range. Lighter or heavier from a swingweight perspective and have you guys any relations with a build like this? For reference i Play a 4 wood ts3 with 79g shaft at 41.75”, works great.

 

will the extra weight port of plus 5g make the club even less spinny with the weight forward in this model?

 

what is the relations between loft of a driver as you shortened it? I play a 9-9,5 driver most times. Will a really short build and a low spinning head need a loft crank to 10 as of AoA changes? 

 

Here in Sweden the TSi4 is listed at 8,5-9,5-10,5 instead of even increments. What’s what?

 

got tons of questions, but I rather hear your thoughts, shoot.

 

and for fitting, well we don’t have a great fitter here in Sweden and even if we do, a 43,5” fitting is not possible. So I’ll buy and try this blind, it’s just money, but dont want waste money if I’m not sure it can be good.

 

Swenglish speaking so hopefully you guys understand my questions. Cheers!

I love unique builds like this! Seems like you're already set on wanting to try the TSi4 at the shorter playing length; so I'll direct my comments towards that end goal. However, did you ever consider simply solving your SW issue in the ST190g via hotmelt or an additional removable head weight (+6g should bring you up to D2). Given your speed, that simple SW adjustment could absolutely help you "feel" the face better and thus find the center of the face more regularly. 

 

Re: the TSi4 build @ 43.5" playing length, I want to start by saying that ANY of the GD shafts in similar weight profile(s) offered by Titleist as a part of their TSi series "stock upgrades" will "feel" smoother relative to the Atmos Black you had in your st190g. I've always found that the entire GD lineup are all just slight variations on the same basic profile. Not knowing anything about how you load a shaft, TBD which profile would fit you the best. The TP, XC, & GP are the 3 stiffest tip sections within the GD lineup. Given your 108-110mph SS, I'd say you're firmly in the "x" flex (vs. "s" or "tx"); I'd also consider going with a 7 series rather than 6 series (heavier starting weight will help a little with the SW).  

 

Regarding loft, understanding that you're 5'7" but not knowing if your wrist hang is longer/shorter vs. standard I'm going to assume you're a somewhat neutral individual. As such, I usually prescribe going higher static loft & more upright for shorter than standard builds. 

 

Lastly, regarding SW, if Titleist is going to be building this club directly, you can usually just tell them what SW you want the final build to spec to and they can build the club to that spec. If you/your cousin are going to be building this club yourselves, you'll need to request a heavier head weight. However, without having these specific components in front of me I can't tell you how much additional weight you'll need... but as a general rule of thumb, 1SW point = 2g of head weight. You can also experiment with ultralight grips to alter SW. 

 

Good luck! Will be curious to hear how this works out for you. 

 

[Edwijn]

8 minutes ago, eth4and said:

I love unique builds like this! Seems like you're already set on wanting to try the TSi4 at the shorter playing length; so I'll direct my comments towards that end goal. However, did you ever consider simply solving your SW issue in the ST190g via hotmelt or an additional removable head weight (+6g should bring you up to D2). Given your speed, that simple SW adjustment could absolutely help you "feel" the face better and thus find the center of the face more regularly. 

 

Re: the TSi4 build @ 43.5" playing length, I want to start by saying that ANY of the GD shafts in similar weight profile(s) offered by Titleist as a part of their TSi series "stock upgrades" will "feel" smoother relative to the Atmos Black you had in your st190g. I've always found that the entire GD lineup are all just slight variations on the same basic profile. Not knowing anything about how you load a shaft, TBD which profile would fit you the best. The TP, XC, & GP are the 3 stiffest tip sections within the GD lineup. Given your 108-110mph SS, I'd say you're firmly in the "x" flex (vs. "s" or "tx"); I'd also consider going with a 7 series rather than 6 series (heavier starting weight will help a little with the SW).  

 

Regarding loft, understanding that you're 5'7" but not knowing if your wrist hang is longer/shorter vs. standard I'm going to assume you're a somewhat neutral individual. As such, I usually prescribe going higher static loft & more upright for shorter than standard builds. 

 

Lastly, regarding SW, if Titleist is going to be building this club directly, you can usually just tell them what SW you want the final build to spec to and they can build the club to that spec. If you/your cousin are going to be building this club yourselves, you'll need to request a heavier head weight. However, without having these specific components in front of me I can't tell you how much additional weight you'll need... but as a general rule of thumb, 1SW point = 2g of head weight. You can also experiment with ultralight grips to alter SW. 

 

Good luck! Will be curious to hear how this works out for you. 

 

great input!

Well no on the st190 weight fix... I’m a club hoe. I have a small ocd for everything being the same brand/colour/weight/shafts etc  So like my bags of just one brand and I change clubs every 2 years so now I’m in titleist gear 🤘🏻😎😅

The thing that bothers me, I gonna need replacing my ts headcovers now that TSi4 headcover gonna be in game. I can’t have that, but that is another story..

 

the end goal for me is just having a option of getting good drives out there and what I like about TSi4 is that tee it up a little bit higher - bombs away with less spinn. I can see it being versatile, forgiving, long. It’s just how approach that shot. Moving it back in the stance to AoA being more down creating spinn, moving it forward in stance for upward Angel of attack. That option I don’t have with a “long” driver for my posture and frame of 5,7. General sweeper of the club at hybrid to driver to make room for distance and accuracy.

I’m come to the 80 sure / 20 unsure % conclusion that a 10.5 degrees face will be perfect as launch is still gonna be coming out hot with so much weight forward on this driver. Loft is only as good as the CG present itself with the swing. Looking at all YouTube channels running the driver the last month or so, I can’t help but question why these guys think that a 8 degree head will be a good review - “loft is your friend”. 

here I’m not so sure how a 70x versus a 60x can build a heavier club for swingweight. Is not a long shaft like a driver more of where the balance point is regards of weight?

what I like (on paper) about going for say 75g shaft is that I have more control with weight. Don’t want a really low spinning head loose itself at takeaway at the start of the swing. Where’s your standpoint on this in theory? 
 

the DI and TP has caught my attention. Seems much like the rest of my bag To keep consistency. Play the modus shafts 125 x SS1 in irons, DI hybrid. I’m swaying towards the 75g DI  with tipping, covering the extra weight from factory to not get loose on the tip.
regarding the SW, I think I’ll go for the 360 lite grip, loose 10g from normal 52g, build it up with 3 layers like all my other grips. Have anyone ever tried these grips?

 

From my estimate swingweight should get up by 3 points on grip, 3 points on weight in club. If balance point of shaft is near normal and let’s say a general D4-D5, Loosing 12 SW on 43,5”, I should be able to get C9ish, or am I wrong?

 

how does hot melt work, does a factorybuild do that? 
 

general thoughts? Hit me up 🙂
 

[eth4and]

On 3/22/2021 at 4:30 PM, Edwijn said:

great input!

Well no on the st190 weight fix... I’m a club hoe. I have a small ocd for everything being the same brand/colour/weight/shafts etc  So like my bags of just one brand and I change clubs every 2 years so now I’m in titleist gear 🤘🏻😎😅

The thing that bothers me, I gonna need replacing my ts headcovers now that TSi4 headcover gonna be in game. I can’t have that, but that is another story..

 

the end goal for me is just having a option of getting good drives out there and what I like about TSi4 is that tee it up a little bit higher - bombs away with less spinn. I can see it being versatile, forgiving, long. It’s just how approach that shot. Moving it back in the stance to AoA being more down creating spinn, moving it forward in stance for upward Angel of attack. That option I don’t have with a “long” driver for my posture and frame of 5,7. General sweeper of the club at hybrid to driver to make room for distance and accuracy.

I’m come to the 80 sure / 20 unsure % conclusion that a 10.5 degrees face will be perfect as launch is still gonna be coming out hot with so much weight forward on this driver. Loft is only as good as the CG present itself with the swing. Looking at all YouTube channels running the driver the last month or so, I can’t help but question why these guys think that a 8 degree head will be a good review - “loft is your friend”. 

here I’m not so sure how a 70x versus a 60x can build a heavier club for swingweight. Is not a long shaft like a driver more of where the balance point is regards of weight?

what I like (on paper) about going for say 75g shaft is that I have more control with weight. Don’t want a really low spinning head loose itself at takeaway at the start of the swing. Where’s your standpoint on this in theory? 
 

the DI and TP has caught my attention. Seems much like the rest of my bag To keep consistency. Play the modus shafts 125 x SS1 in irons, DI hybrid. I’m swaying towards the 75g DI  with tipping, covering the extra weight from factory to not get loose on the tip.
regarding the SW, I think I’ll go for the 360 lite grip, loose 10g from normal 52g, build it up with 3 layers like all my other grips. Have anyone ever tried these grips?

 

From my estimate swingweight should get up by 3 points on grip, 3 points on weight in club. If balance point of shaft is near normal and let’s say a general D4-D5, Loosing 12 SW on 43,5”, I should be able to get C9ish, or am I wrong?

 

how does hot melt work, does a factorybuild do that? 
 

general thoughts? Hit me up 🙂
 

Apologies for delay - I was out of town all of last week. In terms of your pursuit of the +/- D2 SW, if Titleist's custom shop is building this club for you, you should just be able to tell them what final SW you want and they'll build it to that spec. The TSi4 uses the same removable weight as the TSi2 for which Titleist has varying custom weights. TBD whether or not you can get the SW all the way up to +/- D2 though.

 

Hot melt is an alternative / supplement to the stock removable weights (https://www.golfworks.com/surebonder-pro-100-hot-melt-kit/p/ha1003/). It's basically just hot glue ("rat glue") that you install through the removable weight screw port. Hot melt allows you to (i) add internal weight to increase SW, (ii) put it exactly where you want it to alter the club's COG, and (iii) mute the "tingy" sound of a club. The primary disadvantage of hot melt is that once it's in, it's (effectively) permanent. I usually recommend "dry testing" with external lead tape before making the plunge into hot melt. That being said, if you're fully committed to a spec that requires hot melt, most OEM custom shops will hot melt for you. You just need to tell them exactly how much weight you want added (based on a final SW) and where in the head you want it installed.

 

Hope this helps! 

[Seattlegolfnut]

I play a bit of a unique build myself. TSi4 10*, -4 head weight, with 75g AV Raw White @ 44.5”. Comes out at C8.6 SW on my Auditor. I like smaller & lighter heads paired with heavier & shorter shafts. The feel is reminiscent of the permissions with steel that I grew up playing. And with TSi4, I think one is best served to not go too long on shaft and compromise sweet spot delivery. This driver will bomb if you hit it in the center....

 

Bottom line, even with a mid 70s shaft weight, at an inch shorter than mine, you’d need a lot of head weight (~+15g with STD removable weight) to get to D2. You could probably do it. But it’d be a lot of hotmelt or tape. You may want to go at least one flex up on the shaft from all the extra weight at the end. I do wonder if Titleist would really build a club with that much extra weight on custom....

 

The advice I want to leave you with is not to get too caught up on specific SW. Especially since there are so many different balance point shafts out there today, grip profiles, and adjustable weight settings. I had a mental block years ago that “I can’t swing a C-whatever driver!” Just because it was in the C range. So I loaded up on tape, went to stiffer shafts, etc., and in the end the total weight was all messed up and nothing felt right. I was chasing a magic number that really meant nothing.

 

I’ve since learned to just use a head around 195-200g and a shaft in the mid 70g and then tune it a little from there for feel and performance. And whatever the swingweight scale tells me at the end is what it is. 
 

Good luck with your build, let us know how it turns out!

Edited March 29, 2021 by Seattlegolfnut

[Edwijn]

On 3/30/2021 at 12:43 AM, Seattlegolfnut said:

I play a bit of a unique build myself. TSi4 10*, -4 head weight, with 75g AV Raw White @ 44.5”. Comes out at C8.6 SW on my Auditor. I like smaller & lighter heads paired with heavier & shorter shafts. The feel is reminiscent of the permissions with steel that I grew up playing. And with TSi4, I think one is best served to not go too long on shaft and compromise sweet spot delivery. This driver will bomb if you hit it in the center....

 

Bottom line, even with a mid 70s shaft weight, at an inch shorter than mine, you’d need a lot of head weight (~+15g with STD removable weight) to get to D2. You could probably do it. But it’d be a lot of hotmelt or tape. You may want to go at least one flex up on the shaft from all the extra weight at the end. I do wonder if Titleist would really build a club with that much extra weight on custom....

 

The advice I want to leave you with is not to get too caught up on specific SW. Especially since there are so many different balance point shafts out there today, grip profiles, and adjustable weight settings. I had a mental block years ago that “I can’t swing a C-whatever driver!” Just because it was in the C range. So I loaded up on tape, went to stiffer shafts, etc., and in the end the total weight was all messed up and nothing felt right. I was chasing a magic number that really meant nothing.

 

I’ve since learned to just use a head around 195-200g and a shaft in the mid 70g and then tune it a little from there for feel and performance. And whatever the swingweight scale tells me at the end is what it is. 
 

Good luck with your build, let us know how it turns out!

today i ordered my new TSi4, I’m really excited to see the results. I consulted my cousin who works for acushnet for final spec.

 

Tsi4 at 10 degrees, 43,5” long, graphite design tour ad XC 75g shaft in X-flex, 3 wraps and a 0,60 tour 360 round lite grip at 42gram, final build comes out at D1 in swingweight according to his program. 
 

thanks for all of your input, only 4 week’s left before I can try it out!

[Seattlegolfnut]

4 minutes ago, Edwijn said:

today i ordered my new TSi4, I’m really excited to see the results. I consulted my cousin who works for acushnet for final spec.

 

Tsi4 at 10 degrees, 43,5” long, graphite design tour ad XC 75g shaft in X-flex, 3 wraps and a 0,60 tour 360 round lite grip at 42gram, final build comes out at D1 in swingweight according to his program. 
 

thanks for all of your input, only 4 week’s left before I can try it out!

Very cool! If you end up needing different weights to fine tune, just wanted to pass along that they are the same as the TSi2. There are some aftermarket ones on Amazon and potentially other places....

[Edwijn]

1 hour ago, Seattlegolfnut said:

Very cool! If you end up needing different weights to fine tune, just wanted to pass along that they are the same as the TSi2. There are some aftermarket ones on Amazon and potentially other places....

Highest weight possible on the build, I’m a bit unsure how that works when the CG is placed so far forward at TSi4. Normally play a 9 degree head but I felt that CG placement with highest SW and heavier shaft could influence a lower launch then a normal build of 45” @ 60g-ish weight.

[Seattlegolfnut]

3 minutes ago, Edwijn said:

Highest weight possible on the build, I’m a bit unsure how that works when the CG is placed so far forward at TSi4. Normally play a 9 degree head but I felt that CG placement with highest SW and heavier shaft could influence a lower launch then a normal build of 45” @ 60g-ish weight.

 

Yup, I think your right. I remember reading a MGS article that talked about forward CG, closer in line with the shaft plane, will reduce forward "kick". Having CG back will tend to create more loft at impact.

[Edwijn]

Its a rocket, hard to elevate, but straight as an arrow. A shorter driver really helps narrowing your strikes. 

 

43,5”, tour ad XC x-stiff @ 75gram 

lighter grip 46g, 3 layers. D2,2

 

the smaller head looks perfect at this length.

 

full review coming in a week or 2

[TheDominator273]

Looking forward to hearing how this works out for you!

[Seattlegolfnut]

Glad you finally got it! This year, getting golf clubs in our hands has been a real test in patience!

[Edwijn]

1 hour ago, Seattlegolfnut said:

Glad you finally got it! This year, getting golf clubs in our hands has been a real test in patience!

4 weeks, not bad but not great either. As acushnet builds its clubs in the UK, it takes a couple days extra with customs with brexit, not being shipped to Sweden directly must be because tarrifs being lower in Holland then Sweden.

2 hours ago, TheDominator273 said:

Looking forward to hearing how this works out for you!

Going trough some swing changes, but man that Tour ad XC shaft felt great. 
 

one thing that stands out, it felt effortlessly to swing this build. Went trough 40 drives, not at all tired after.

im not sure if it’s because the shaft or the general build, but I’m guessing that it’s the sum of all parts. With CG being centred in the clubhead, the weight felt perfectly balanced in the club trough the swing. I’m not sure I can describe that feeling better then that. With other “normal” drivers I can hit 10 maybe 15 drives before my shoulders and back gets tired. I’m guessing here but I will swap shafts with my ts2 to see it that’s the case.

 

other then that this clubface has more of a bulk against the heel, where my strike tends to gravitate to, it felt forgiving directional wise and may I say batter then normal drivers. Very excited to test this club on the course.