Forgiving, Yet Fade Biased Driver

[drumdude96]

You (hopefully) read the title, folks.  What drivers are fade biased, yet still really forgiving?  The first one that comes to mind for me would be a G425 Max with the weight in the fade position, or maybe the G425 LST.  What else is out there?  And I HATE TaylorMade stuff with a passion.  Not because of any silly prejudices or anything like that.  The stuff just performs horribly for me.  So, TM is out.  I am currently bagging a G400 Max, and recent swing changes have me hitting way too many balls to right field (I'm a lefty).  I need something that helps keep me from shutting the face down too quickly, but that is also pretty good when you don't hit the sweet spot.  I think the 400 Max is more for someone who fights a slice, not a hook, at least that's what I'm experiencing with mine. 

[greenwavegolfer]

I think you pretty much nailed it with either of the G425 heads. If the fade bias matters more than the forgiveness go LST, if the forgiveness matters more than the fade bias go Max with the weight in the toe. I think either of those would be about your best options though.

[drumdude96]

21 minutes ago, greenwavegolfer said:

I think you pretty much nailed it with either of the G425 heads. If the fade bias matters more than the forgiveness go LST, if the forgiveness matters more than the fade bias go Max with the weight in the toe. I think either of those would be about your best options though.

I'm thinking the fade bias matters more to me at this point.  I know they're both going to be uber forgiving, and I hit the center-ish of the face most of the time, so I need the most help with not hooking or pulling the ball.  I love PING drivers, but is there anything else out there that would fit the bill?  After looking down at the 400 Max for over 3 years, I sure wouldn't mind something with a cleaner look.

[greenwavegolfer]

26 minutes ago, drumdude96 said:

I'm thinking the fade bias matters more to me at this point.  I know they're both going to be uber forgiving, and I hit the center-ish of the face most of the time, so I need the most help with not hooking or pulling the ball.  I love PING drivers, but is there anything else out there that would fit the bill?  After looking down at the 400 Max for over 3 years, I sure wouldn't mind something with a cleaner look.

TSi3 maybe? I just switched from a G400 LST to a G425 LST and I do think they look a bit cleaner now, then again I was never bothered by the Ping driver looks. But TSi3 would get you some fade bias and while it won't be as forgiving as either of the Ping models it should be solid.

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

You (hopefully) read the title, folks.  What drivers are fade biased, yet still really forgiving?  The first one that comes to mind for me would be a G425 Max with the weight in the fade position, or maybe the G425 LST.  What else is out there?  And I HATE TaylorMade stuff with a passion.  Not because of any silly prejudices or anything like that.  The stuff just performs horribly for me.  So, TM is out.  I am currently bagging a G400 Max, and recent swing changes have me hitting way too many balls to right field (I'm a lefty).  I need something that helps keep me from shutting the face down too quickly, but that is also pretty good when you don't hit the sweet spot.  I think the 400 Max is more for someone who fights a slice, not a hook, at least that's what I'm experiencing with mine. 

Responding to the highlighted part specifically because there is an important distinction to be made here. A fade biased driver when it comes to horizontal CG placement (the commonly accepted definition) will not likely have any impact on a face closure issue. The common talking point of CG bias impacting face closure rate (toe weight "slows down" the toe) has always been anecdotal and barring some in depth testing to prove or disprove it, I am pretty inclined to believe it is bogus and should not be considered, especially since there are several other factors that we KNOW will impact face closure issues.

If you were losing the ball right due to your strikes sneaking out into the toe a little bit then a fade biased driver could help, but otherwise the equipment tweaks in order of effectiveness will likely be:

1) Face angle. Get a higher lofted driver and crank it down. Taylormade actually gives you the greatest ability to do this, assuming you don't start with a driver that is slammed shut. Titleist tends to already sit open per your other thread, but gives you the least adjustment range for opening the face, this will be case by case then.

2) Grip change/adjustment. Extra wraps under the bottom hand HAVE actually been tested to show impact on face closure rate, and it makes sense on paper. Still potentially dependent on the individual and how they react to that feel though. 

3) Shaft change. The less lead deflection a shaft exhibits, the less face closure that will be introduced approaching impact. This is lower on the list though as it can be completely feel dependent and is easily overridden by variations in delivery and the two points above. 

[craz-e]

Original SIM 

I was a TM hater too but I walked into the fitting with the intention of buying what performed best for me.

[Golfingfanatic]

Mavrik Sub Zero Triple Diamond with a heavy weight in the back instead of the 8g/8g weight configuration.

[justcallmemoses]

3 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Responding to the highlighted part specifically because there is an important distinction to be made here. A fade biased driver when it comes to horizontal CG placement (the commonly accepted definition) will not likely have any impact on a face closure issue. The common talking point of CG bias impacting face closure rate (toe weight "slows down" the toe) has always been anecdotal and barring some in depth testing to prove or disprove it, I am pretty inclined to believe it is bogus and should not be considered, especially since there are several other factors that we KNOW will impact face closure issues.

If you were losing the ball right due to your strikes sneaking out into the toe a little bit then a fade biased driver could help, but otherwise the equipment tweaks in order of effectiveness will likely be:

1) Face angle. Get a higher lofted driver and crank it down. Taylormade actually gives you the greatest ability to do this, assuming you don't start with a driver that is slammed shut. Titleist tends to already sit open per your other thread, but gives you the least adjustment range for opening the face, this will be case by case then.

2) Grip change/adjustment. Extra wraps under the bottom hand HAVE actually been tested to show impact on face closure rate, and it makes sense on paper. Still potentially dependent on the individual and how they react to that feel though. 

3) Shaft change. The less lead deflection a shaft exhibits, the less face closure that will be introduced approaching impact. This is lower on the list though as it can be completely feel dependent and is easily overridden by variations in delivery and the two points above. 

agreed. My miss was always left. Lofted down driver, stiffer tip shaft and a slightly larger grip size works so good 

[Tree Levino]

The Max LS comes to mind straight away

[chriskilmer]

Is a G425 Max really any better than a G400 Max?  C'mon seriously?  

[third-times-a-charm]

51 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

The Max LS comes to mind straight away

yep. Callaway max LS 

[Davidv]

Callaway Epic Max LS.

[spring70]

10 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

You (hopefully) read the title, folks.  What drivers are fade biased, yet still really forgiving?  The first one that comes to mind for me would be a G425 Max with the weight in the fade position, or maybe the G425 LST.  What else is out there?  And I HATE TaylorMade stuff with a passion.  Not because of any silly prejudices or anything like that.  The stuff just performs horribly for me.  So, TM is out.  I am currently bagging a G400 Max, and recent swing changes have me hitting way too many balls to right field (I'm a lefty).  I need something that helps keep me from shutting the face down too quickly, but that is also pretty good when you don't hit the sweet spot.  I think the 400 Max is more for someone who fights a slice, not a hook, at least that's what I'm experiencing with mine. 

Have you tried the Cobra drivers, specifically the XB or last years Extreme - they are very flat. 

[Poolparty]

I always thought the Max was for a fade or just straight. The only thing that may make it draw is the head weight maybe leading to too much deflection. It's a heavy head but I'm reading the 425 is heavier

[Skhacker]

I’ve found the Mavrik SZ with weight in the back stupid easy to keep in the fairway, even on my bad days. 

[mogc60]

Srixon ZX7 fade bias for sure

[phizzy30]

11 hours ago, drumdude96 said:

You (hopefully) read the title, folks.  What drivers are fade biased, yet still really forgiving?  The first one that comes to mind for me would be a G425 Max with the weight in the fade position, or maybe the G425 LST.  What else is out there?  And I HATE TaylorMade stuff with a passion.  Not because of any silly prejudices or anything like that.  The stuff just performs horribly for me.  So, TM is out.  I am currently bagging a G400 Max, and recent swing changes have me hitting way too many balls to right field (I'm a lefty).  I need something that helps keep me from shutting the face down too quickly, but that is also pretty good when you don't hit the sweet spot.  I think the 400 Max is more for someone who fights a slice, not a hook, at least that's what I'm experiencing with mine. 

Wait, why do you have a SLDR mini then?  That thing was one of the most unforgiving heads out there.  SLDR mini is technically driverish, haha.  I know it's petty of me to nitpick here, but I have to know...........

[doctorgriffo]

4 hours ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

The Max LS comes to mind straight away

Yes -epic max ls fits your description.  I just replaced the epic flash sz with this (same shaft). It is fade biased, and you can still dial it in with the sliding weight. It is more stable, more forgiving that the epic flash sz, and sounds better.  Hands down winner for me when I hit it against everything mentioned so far - long enough, and the misses are more playable.

[mizunotpz]

Isnt there a flat setting on the G400 max? Or maybe it wasnt introduced until the G410 plus? I game the plus and the flat setting helps me to fade it pretty much as much as I want. And its a very forgiving driver.

[drumdude96]

9 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

Wait, why do you have a SLDR mini then?  That thing was one of the most unforgiving heads out there.  SLDR mini is technically driverish, haha.  I know it's petty of me to nitpick here, but I have to know...........

The SLDR mini hasn't been in the bag for a while. Just haven't updated my signature. I'm still trying to find the perfect 3 wood to replace it.

[swing33]

14 hours ago, justcallmemoses said:

agreed. My miss was always left. Lofted down driver, stiffer tip shaft and a slightly larger grip size works so good 

I have a few driver heads, including the 400 Max.  This worked for me on the Max. Dropped loft on hosel adjustment, went to an X flex that was high launch (thus offsetting lowering the loft) and low spin, and use midsize grip. Def works for me and allows me to still have the forgiveness the 400 Max has in spades. 

[drumdude96]

I put about 6 grams of lead tape on the toe of the G400 Max today, and it helped a little.  Tomorrow I'll loft it down and put a midsize grip on it and see how that does.

[Jlb123]

G425 max in the flat setting for me had been straight to a small fade. Also the epic flash sz with weight in fade position was good as well. 

[justcallmemoses]

18 hours ago, swing33 said:

I have a few driver heads, including the 400 Max.  This worked for me on the Max. Dropped loft on hosel adjustment, went to an X flex that was high launch (thus offsetting lowering the loft) and low spin, and use midsize grip. Def works for me and allows me to still have the forgiveness the 400 Max has in spades. 

big fan of the high moi heads in lower lofts. Especially if you hit up on the ball 

[cardoustie]

G400 max in little minus with tip stiffer shaft sir

 

G400LST ... best option

 

OLD SCHOOL ... ADAMS 9015D or 9016D

 

I find with my 400 max, changing the weight in the back really changes performance for all sorts of shafts (I think I have 7 driver shafts with G400 tips on them)

 

Also find out why you overcook the draw.  Too inside out? Toe contact ?  Etc etc 

[jmp69]

G425 LST , weight in fade setting,  - 1* loft, flat lie, with  Hzrdus yellow shaft works for me.

[belh22]

Tsi2 opened and flat too

[me05501]

Cobra

[jmp69]

Just to add , l tried the pxg proto x , but the Ping G425 LST, in my previous post just worked better for me.

[driveandputtmachine]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:10 AM, TigerInTheWoods said:

The Max LS comes to mind straight away

I am coming from the G400 Max and the 410 LST, and the Epic Max LS has cured my hooky misses.  I am in standard setting with weight centered too.  I was horribly surprised by it because I haven't even looked at a Callaway driver in 10 years or so.

 

TBH I lucked into with Global Golf's U-try.  SO for 25 bucks I got to try it for 14 days and luckily it was a hit even with the MMT shaft that I didn't know much about.  I have a few shafts here that I will give a whirl in the head in the coming weeks since I went to the All-fit hosel adapter system and don't have to deal with removing specific company adapters for all my shafts.