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G425 vs i210 (what keeps tour players in the i210


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You see so many tour players in the i210 and not so much the G425.  I understand the classification differences between the two but what are the playing characteristics that separate these two by such a large margin:

1. Distance consistency?

2. Sole width? 

3. Workability?

4.  ?

 

I have only played the i210 and that is why I ask.  At first glance neither are very thin on the sole, I would think neither want to move extensively with cuts or draws, and at least the i210 in my hands was not the easiest to flight low.

So, what are the differences that make one a winner on every tour on earth vs the other who is rarely played?

I understand classification is apple to oranges and I assume playing characteristics must be night and day and wondering in what ways.

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  • rxk9fan changed the title to G425 vs i210 (what keeps tour players in the i210
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I'm a 4 handicap and played the G400's, now game the G425's, and also have i210's in 8-9-W-U. I prefer the G425's because I find they are more forgiving on toe strikes (which is where my common miss i

"First of all, an average amateur - much less a tour pro - can hit a basic fade or draw with almost any iron - if the player knows the basic laws of ball flight."   No disrespect as I see yo

Your 1-3 sum it up just right, and 4 would be spin as @dlygrisse surmised. The Ping site has a very detailed WITB section that is fun to look through. The guys use a mix of I210's and Blueprints, and

Two totally different clubs. The G series is not geared towards most pros games.  They want more spin and control. Look for them to switch when the I series replacement comes out. 

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Your 1-3 sum it up just right, and 4 would be spin as @dlygrisse surmised. The Ping site has a very detailed WITB section that is fun to look through. The guys use a mix of I210's and Blueprints, and the ladies are almost exclusively I210, though some don't start until the 7 iron and many are power spec'd. 

 

I think the modern flexible, hot face of the G425 might be to inconsistent for the pros, especially in the short irons where accuracy is paramount. Good for us that hit it all over the face, not so much for great ball strikers.

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I currently game the 210 and my buddy has the 425.  I tried his out at the range and while they look nice, they are noticeably bigger, show more offset and the feel is much more on the firm side.  I actually found them harder to hit than the 210s.  I have been pleasantly surprised as to how workable the 210s are.  I have a much easier time working them than the 785 I played before them... IDK why, but they are just working.  Very happy with them and I dont know what there is to gain other than possibly a little more forgiveness with the 425 but it would be minimal.

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Just as you started with your list:

 

1.  Distance control & consistency.

2.  Sole width while also having the Wrx Dept. put any and all grinds they could ever need or want to improve performance for that particular golfer.

3.  Workable, not many need irons that they can sling 60y, tho I'm sure it can be done if really needed.

4.  Spin control and more spin than the 425s.

5.  Clean, familiar Ping look from address.

6.  Precision tool with forgiveness.  When I get quick, I miss on the toe and these aren't that punishing, which helps when needed regardless of who is using them.

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Tighter dispersion not just L⬅️➡️R but equally important

 

N

⬆️

⬇️

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Slight mishits aren’t punished much and no super hot rockets when pured.

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3 hours ago, rxk9fan said:

I have only played the i210 and that is why I ask.  At first glance neither are very thin on the sole, I would think neither want to move extensively with cuts or draws, and at least the i210 in my hands was not the easiest to flight low.

 

First of all, an average amateur - much less a tour pro - can hit a basic fade or draw with almost any iron - if the player knows the basic laws of ball flight.

 

Next, flight low is a combination of {clubhead + shaft}, ball position and stance at address, and ball model played. The tour guys have more chance to practice such stuff than we do. Reminds me of a Golf Digest article a few years back which interviewed club design engineers. These guys recommended that the average golfer take an extra club or two when hitting into the wind - more reliable than flighting down if you don't practice it.

 

As for i200 and i210, I tried the i200 circa 2017 at a demo day with low attendance. In a leisurely manner, I got to hit Ping irons and wedges in two different half-hour sessions. The i200 felt great, using the AWT 2.0 shafts. With the lighter AWT long iron shafts, I could actually hit the 4i off the deck. What I liked: distinct range dispersion club to club up and down the set.

 

I tried the i210 last spring, but father time is catching up with me. Although I got some good shots, I had several mishits overall. I would need some lighter graphites to give the i210 a go. I would probably fit better in the G425 irons with the graphite Alta CB Slates (AWT), as per a promo fitting I had January 2021.

 

Also, prevalence on tour has to do in part with supply chain. The i210 has been out for awhile, and i210 pros probably have a set in the bag and two back home just in case. The G425 got launched mid-pandemic and may be harder to get. Plus, I would say the i210 hits the profile of pros better than the G425. The G425 is a straight-up GI model, and I don't see it as attractive to pros and scratch amateurs.

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Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

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3 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

 

First of all, an average amateur - much less a tour pro - can hit a basic fade or draw with almost any iron - if the player knows the basic laws of ball flight.

 

Next, flight low is a combination of {clubhead + shaft}, ball position and stance at address, and ball model played. The tour guys have more chance to practice such stuff than we do. Reminds me of a Golf Digest article a few years back which interviewed club design engineers. These guys recommended that the average golfer take an extra club or two when hitting into the wind - more reliable than flighting down if you don't practice it.

 

As for i200 and i210, I tried the i200 circa 2017 at a demo day with low attendance. In a leisurely manner, I got to hit Ping irons and wedges in two different half-hour sessions. The i200 felt great, using the AWT 2.0 shafts. With the lighter AWT long iron shafts, I could actually hit the 4i off the deck. What I liked: distinct range dispersion club to club up and down the set.

 

I tried the i210 last spring, but father time is catching up with me. Although I got some good shots, I had several mishits overall. I would need some lighter graphites to give the i210 a go. I would probably fit better in the G425 irons with the graphite Alta CB Slates (AWT), as per a promo fitting I had January 2021.

 

Also, prevalence on tour has to do in part with supply chain. The i210 has been out for awhile, and i210 pros probably have a set in the bag and two back home just in case. The G425 got launched mid-pandemic and may be harder to get. Plus, I would say the i210 hits the profile of pros better than the G425. The G425 is a straight-up GI model, and I don't see it as attractive to pros and scratch amateurs.

"First of all, an average amateur - much less a tour pro - can hit a basic fade or draw with almost any iron - if the player knows the basic laws of ball flight."

 

No disrespect as I see you have been here a very long time BUT LOL.....

My normal group plays to the following: 10,8,3,and +3 so maybe at least average amateurs while certainly not close to a tour pro.  We can all cut it, double cross ourselves with a hard pull, draw it, and duck hook it and none of that with the consistency needed to be any better than our handicaps show.  So, there is a difference between moving the ball consistently and moving it.  I don't know which you reference with  "a basic fade or draw"?

 

The other thing I would question is does the supply chain actually affect prevalence on tour?  My assumption would be this would not be an issue for the guys/gals filling up a tour bag.  Would they not go to the top of the list?  I have not seen any OEM stop building completely.  

 

 

 

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Well, I only hit a dozen or so balls with my PW, 8, and 6 iron 210’s today when the range opened.

However, they came off the clubs really well, great trajectory, and feel pretty darn nice for range balls at 10*C.

 

Can’t wait to get on the course Sat 10th - opening day.

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35 minutes ago, rxk9fan said:

We can all cut it, double cross ourselves with a hard pull, draw it, and duck hook it and none of that with the consistency needed to be any better than our handicaps show.  So, there is a difference between moving the ball consistently and moving it.  I don't know which you reference with  "a basic fade or draw"?

 

A golfer who understands the golf swing is capable of hitting a basic fade or draw. May not get it done all the time, but should pull it off more often than not. Given, my punch draw and slap fade out of the rough may not stop three feet from the cup, but at least it's in front of the green for a possible up-and-down.

 

35 minutes ago, rxk9fan said:

The other thing I would question is does the supply chain actually affect prevalence on tour?  My assumption would be this would not be an issue for the guys/gals filling up a tour bag.  Would they not go to the top of the list?  I have not seen any OEM stop building completely.  

 

An incomplete thought on my part...😔 The pros do have "head of the line" privileges. And, word from local golf shop is that Ping is pushing out the G425 products before filling orders for residual G400/410 stocks.

 

And, since you and your group are low HDCP golfers, a question for you: Would pros or competition amateurs be interested in G425? Longest standard iron is 4i.  Maybe G425 crossovers?

(Lofts 18*, 20*, 22.5*) 

 

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I don’t know how smart we are but it seems we all shy away from wider soles.  I played about 5 rounds with the i210 and it felt wide/bounce heavy in less than ideal conditions.  
My group: 2 sets of Z945’s

                  1 set of MP33

                  1 set of AP1’s

My original question was centered around so many success stories on all tours with the i210 and yet my group of amateurs think they feel a bit clunky.  I have a Ping fitting this week on Trackman outside and I am wondering if I should consider getting over it and try the G425?  What would I gain/give up from my Srixon blades.  Shooting a 39/45 this weekend has me questioning a lot of things!

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A couple of years back I was fit into i210. Two different times actually - got refit after 6 months of lessons and wanting to switch to graphite shafts. Hit them better than G410, i500, Apex, 585. Couldn’t tell you exactly why. The sole worked for me when I got a bit steep, and good contact felt really soft. I got Mizuno-curious and was down over a year with elbow tendonitis so I moved them. I think they often don’t get a lot of love in forums as they’re not forged or a blade or otherwise “sexy.”

 

I’ve warmed to my ZX5 7i (very good day at the range today) and look forward to the rest of those coming in. But I’d game the i210s without hesitation.

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58 minutes ago, rxk9fan said:

I don’t know how smart we are but it seems we all shy away from wider soles.  I played about 5 rounds with the i210 and it felt wide/bounce heavy in less than ideal conditions.  
My group: 2 sets of Z945’s

                  1 set of MP33

                  1 set of AP1’s

My original question was centered around so many success stories on all tours with the i210 and yet my group of amateurs think they feel a bit clunky.  I have a Ping fitting this week on Trackman outside and I am wondering if I should consider getting over it and try the G425?  What would I gain/give up from my Srixon blades.  Shooting a 39/45 this weekend has me questioning a lot of things!

 

 

My primary complaint with most Ping irons is too much bounce .....had iblades for few rounds and in Florida on tight Bermuda lies......they just didn't work for me......I really wanted them to......maybe revisit them again.....great feel 

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I just think the i210's look way better.

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Everything covered i reckon. Pro's on the whole want to look down at smaller clubs with less offside and topline. They don't need or want bigger soles as they don't need any help vertically and want to control trajectory. They don't want or need stronger lofts as they want to hit certain trajectory boxes and spin rates with specific clubs and they definitely don't need spring face type help. They are all about control. 

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6 hours ago, RacineBoxer said:

I'm a 4 handicap and played the G400's, now game the G425's, and also have i210's in 8-9-W-U. I prefer the G425's because I find they are more forgiving on toe strikes (which is where my common miss is) and they spin less.

 

Why do Ping tour players not play the G425's? My thoughts/guesses

1. Looks. They are big and chunky. And looks matter to pro's.

2. Feel. They are hard and clicky. Pro's want "soft". It's less easy to "feel" your mis-strikes (you can feel them, just not as easily).

3. Ping has found that as the length from heel to toe increases (i.e. longer blade length) it because harder to control the face angle at impact. Obviously face angle is critical to starting the ball your intended line. This is a trade off with "forgiveness".

4. I've heard Mizuno's Chris Voshall say that as the center of gravity of a club head gets further away from the hosel the club becomes harder to "work". For example, Mizuno moved the center of gravity in the 921 Tours closer to the hosel to give pro caliber players more workability. No doubt the G425 has a center of gravity significantly farther from the hosel which isn't something pro's would like. Good for MOI, good for hitting it straight, good for protecting against toe strikes, but not good for working the ball both ways.

5. Spin. My i210's spin way more. I hit my i210 (same AWT shafts) 9 iron about 142 and it consistently rips back 5, often times, 12 feet. I hate that. My G425's hit and stop right next to their pitch mark. For me, I like that better. I play on mostly soft "muni" types of greens.

6. Height. The G425's go very high. They are arguably too high for me and my 95-100 mph driver swing. Obviously a shaft change can help lower ball flight but I think tour pro's would consistency struggle with hitting these too high because of their combination of launch angle and low COG.

7. Sole width and bounce. Tour players don't struggle with fat iron shots like us mere mortals do. Out of my mis-strikes that are fat or thin, for me personally, it's probably 90% fat, so the bigger soles offer me some protection. Most tour pro's prefer very thin soles. I would classify the i210's as having medium sole widths. 

 

Points 3 and 4 are very interesting @RacineBoxer!

I just switched from i20s to G425s (tried the i210s but dispersion was way better with G425).

I have only hit them on the range (courses not open here yet), but I find that the G425s "only" errors in start direction. Not curvature. They just go straight.

I can hit draws and fades if I but I really have to exaggerate to do that.

So your explanation in points 3 and 4 may explain what I'm seeing.

 

About spin, I saw the opposite at the fitting. The G425s span a bit more than my old i20s. Maybe it had to do with worn out grooves on my 8-year old i20s? (Similar graphite shafts in both.)

 

About height, I can confirm the G425s go higher, which I want (being a sweeper with  a moderate swing speed).

Landing angle was better with G425s than my old i20s.

 

About feel, this is the only part where the G425s are not as good as the i-series. Definitely more clicky, but personally I've already gotten pretty used to it. It's like I no longer notice it. Especially when looking at the ball going right at the target 🙂 

 

 

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Better players don't typically play bloated offset abominations like the Ping G series

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10 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

Better players don't typically play bloated offset abominations like the Ping G series

You must live in Quebec.:WTF:

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3 minutes ago, Quasimoto said:

You must live in Quebec.:WTF:

 

I'm joking, I've owned like 4 different G series sets and the Eye2s

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I know from your posts that is true.

I was joking as well, it was an Alberta salute!

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      Adam Svensson with new model of Puma golf shoes - 2021 Wichita Open (Korn Ferry)
       

       
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